I wonder how motherfarkers like Gonzalez and Rumsfeld sleep at night knowing that the Abu Ghraib photos are responsible for probably more than a few attacks.

moops:

he probably drives a mid-80s pontiac and joined the military because he couldn't get a job anywhere else

Ain't nuttin' wrong with that.

/Drives a Fiero
//Could get a job somewhere else.

2005-01-10 03:06:50 PM dbaggins

perhaps, just perhaps, these "whining election lefties" are actually "concerned american citizens". If you are capable of not interpreting events politically.

Riiiiiiiiight. That must be what it is.

Do any of you liberals remember the story of Lt. Col West?

He is the Army officer that took his pistol and pressed it to the head of a Iraqi who had knew the identities of serveral terrorists as well as their plans to attack U.S. troops.

He had been unable to get the information until he threatened to kill the man. When he did, the guy cracked, and spilled his guts. His action undoubtedly saved American lives.

Would you rather he not done that, and allowed the plans to go ahead?

Here's the Colonel's thoughts on the issue, "If it's about the lives of my men and their safety, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can,".

God bless a true American.

here are some SHOCKING pictures from iraq that CNN, ABC, and CBS are AFRAID to show you!

Give it up for Major Thomb everyone!

Trolling for an hour and still going strong!

pontechango,

I loved the list. We are no better than the people who ran Hanoi Hilton. Those american monsters.

I think John McCain should be sent there to oversee treatment of prisoners. He could see both sides, plus that will get him out of america.

Major Thomb

There's no doubt there. The military trains people how to do this just like they train people how to kill.

Shh... don't tell the media. The Bush Administration is trying to keep that a secret.

rush22

Nice post, but you are doing it all wrong. Fact and logic don't work against these people. You've got to have a zigger to throw at them to get their attention. Call them stupid. It's an old-standby that always works.

"Bailiff, please slap the defense attorney upside the head," responded Judge Advocate Michael Hunter.

GoodDamon:

Prisoners were tortured with a lot more than that "human pyramid." Specific, documented instances include dunking them in water, depriving them of sleep, tying them up in agonizing positions until they soil themselves, beating them, raping them with foreign objects, assaulting them with dogs, etc. I made this point, then asked for a follow-up response from Major Thomb.

Yea, those are all non-torture methods of extracting information. Fear and discomfort are the main methods.

BBanzai

Whoa! Taking on a deceased President! That takes some balls! Who's next? Taft?

Well, Rumsfeld is not deceased and neither is Bush the elder. Those two armed Sadaam to the teeth and sent him his biological weapons when we wanted him to win his war. The WMD was a good premise, they just didn't think that he had used up all of what they sold him...

pontechango:

Shh... don't tell the media. The Bush Administration is trying to keep that a secret.

Bush? Do you think it's a new thing? There's plenty of books on the subject if anyone wants to know what really goes on.

James Bong

here are some SHOCKING pictures from iraq that CNN, ABC, and CBS are AFRAID to show you!

Probably because those photos are so old that they'd get in trouble for recycling news.

If 9-11 happened today, would we be as susprised as we were in 2001?

BigWillGT
Folks this stuff is all child's play compared to the shiat the Iraqis went through prior to the war. To be completely honest, I couldn't care less what happens to them.

Uh huh. So, um, why are we there again?

BigWillGT

Folks this stuff is all child's play compared to the shiat the Iraqis went through prior to the war. To be completely honest, I couldn't care less what happens to them.

Oh, that's rich. So you basically don't care that people were tortured under Saddam, even though it's one of the lame ass arguments the Bush admin, neocons and chickenhawks used for going to war.

Great. It's comforting to know that there are people out there who don't care about the suffering of innocents. But hey, they're not American, so why bother?

Major Thomb

Do you think anyone really asks a prisoner if he's a "bad man"? They want to know where strikes are planned, where they store their ammo, where they make their bombs, where the leadership meets, etc.

And an innocent man is still going to give any answer necessary to stop the torture, whether it's true or not.

hb0mb:

Or is it just OK to do it to Iraqi prisoners in Iraq because they are brown skinned and non-christian?


Ignoring the thread topic, the difference here seems more that we are not engaging in a military occupation of the prison. Therefore your analogy is flawed.

It would therefore be "ok to do it" because it would yield info useful to a military occupying force.

This, of course, presupposes that you have captives that actually have any data to impart to you, and that the interrogators have actually had any training in how to do this appropriately.

It's happened at least once before
Predating Dubya's feckless war
Here we see our fair Air Force
Make torture seem like fun of course:



It doesn't seem she's sodomized
(Too hard I'd guess when bottle sized)
But had I the chance I admit
Torturously long I'd hit
I'd defile gardens of Eden
Til every orifice is bleeding
Well do I've a point? Egad!
Hell yeah, Jeanie was from Baghdad.

Major Thomb

You must not have a clue about why Gonzales' nomination is being challenged.

If we locked up all Iraqis that raped little boys and girls, the country would just have 5 citizens

Do one of those pictures have an emoticon?

"those iraqis sure have mastered english writing "

lots of people know english.

"you farkin' lowlife"

well, I guess if you have no valid points left, resort to name-calling. it makes you look intelligent as well as mature.

"Do any of you liberals remember the story of Lt. Col West?

He is the Army officer that took his pistol and pressed it to the head of a Iraqi who had knew the identities of serveral terrorists as well as their plans to attack U.S. troops.

He had been unable to get the information until he threatened to kill the man. When he did, the guy cracked, and spilled his guts. His action undoubtedly saved American lives.

Would you rather he not done that, and allowed the plans to go ahead?"

That actually is ok with me, at least it's a hell of a lot more respectable than the childishly juvenile antics being talked about like the stacking and all. Call it whatever you want, but I refuse to be proud of thugs that would be right at home in a third world millitary doing stupid garbage to the weak just because they can.

We're supposed to be better than that, there's a reason our millitary uniforms don't have big red noses and floppy shoes. If you have to use force then use force, not adolescent games.

If we locked up all Iraqis that raped little boys and girls, the country would just have 5 citizens

So would the Vatican.

Torture? Cheerleaders?
Sounds like a GIS waiting to happen...

Clicky, pops.

Havent looked any further, but it's bound to lead to NSFW material...

If a terrorist tripped over an American soldier's boot and scraped his elbow on his way to severing the head of said soldier, the Fark liberals would be saying the soldier got what was coming to him for torturing the poor guy with his boot.

/Join the liberals - kill yourself for Islam!
//yes I'm trolling - so are you...

Riiiiiiiiight. That must be what it is.



must suck to be a blind jackass like you. Hope that partisan hate thing is working out well for you. Smug feelings have yet to be proven carcinogenic, so go nuts.

BBanzai

So exactly what does that story have to do with the masses of innocents we've rounded up and abused?

I need a break, I'm going to go satisfy my ass with a crucifix.

B82

If we locked up all Iraqis that raped little boys and girls, the country would just have 5 citizens

If we locked up all the insane right wingers in the United States, we'd retain a majority of our citizens and have a decent country!

Many of the things you labelled "not torture" violated the Geneva Conventions, of which the US is a party. Just thought you should know.


True!

But violating the Geneva Convention DOES NOT MAKE AN ACT TORTURE!

It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to be out of uniform in a war zone during hostilities. That does not make it torture.

Were most of those acts Moral? no. Shooting someone dead is also not Moral. There is a fine line between humiliation/stress/fatigue and torture.

I have seen the light thanks to Major Thomb's well argued points and subtle style of debating. All of you who can't see that what happened at Abu Ghraib was needed to keep American soldiers safe are exceptionally stupid.

Now all we have to do is find a way to present Major Thomb's quite brilliant explenation to the millions of Muslims boiling with hate and anger over this Abu Ghraib thing. I'm thinking some kind of talkshow...

What I said: Prisoners were tortured with a lot more than that "human pyramid." Specific, documented instances include dunking them in water, depriving them of sleep, tying them up in agonizing positions until they soil themselves, beating them, raping them with foreign objects, assaulting them with dogs, etc. I made this point, then asked for a follow-up response from Major Thomb.

The latest Major Thomb trolling response: Yea, those are all non-torture methods of extracting information. Fear and discomfort are the main methods.

Wow. Another common troll tactic is to say that something you don't like simply isn't true. For instance, Major Thomb is now arguing that raping prisoners in the rectum with foreign objects is not torture.

Try a real counter-point sometime, Major Thomb. Until then, consider yourself outed as a:

I think all of these unAmerican NeoCon Fascist terrorists that support these asshats should be incarcerated!

Fuq American Fascist Bastards, what is it anyway? The inbreeding?

Saudi born terrorists strike us
Leader hidden in Afghanistan
Afghanistan won't give him up
Attack Afghanistan
Americans OK with that

Iraq...uh..does nothing
Doesn't repond to our threats to stop doing nothing
Attack Iraq, torture them, kill innocents
Americans not OK with that
Well the true Americans with a grasp of history anyway.

OK, fess up...how many of you neocons can be persuaded to think they were just training the Iraq Olympic team cheerleading squad?

I'll bet if Scott McClellan said it, and Sean Hannity repeated it...you'd buy it.

I think the War Nerd makes some interesting points in this article- which may be the argument that the conservatives are looking for. Basically he's saying that in order to win a war against an insurgent populace, you have to torture them.

From a cold, logical viewpoint I agree with this statement. But in order to make that argument you have to admit that you are a colonial occupying force against a determined homegrown militia. That is essentially admitting that the war is a war for riches and not liberation. At some point America has to wake up and admit what this war is all about, and live with that feeling.

pontechango: You must not have a clue about why Gonzales' nomination is being challenged.

You mean the political posturing designed to get votes from the naive that think war doesn't involve a lot of very nasty stuff.

It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to be out of uniform in a war zone during hostilities. That does not make it torture.

So when American operatives and civilians are captured and beheaded in Iraq, it's not murder because they aren't in uniform?

TERRORIST:


With us or against us?

98z28

It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to be out of uniform in a war zone during hostilities. That does not make it torture.

Well, I don't know if it counts for Iraqis, since they are no longer a sovereign nation. I don't know if the insurgents are bound to the Geneva Convention but I suspect that they aren't.

The two sides to the conservative argument.

"We need to bring democracy to the people of Iraq."
"Turn that place into glass for all I care"

"Saddam tortured his people"
"Playful anal rape is not torture"

"Look at these pictures of happy Iraqi people"
"Turn that place into glass for all I care"

Lenny,

I think a townhall meeting might be a better forum; you'd get that up-close-and-personal style thing happening. I'll ping the Halliburton folks to see what can be arranged...

"OK, fess up...how many of you neocons can be persuaded to think they were just training the Iraq Olympic team cheerleading squad?

I'll bet if Scott McClellan said it, and Sean Hannity repeated it...you'd buy it."

I have to wonder if they even checked to make sure they should be defending this garbage. Their leaders aren't trying to defend it and yet they feel they must anyway.