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(MSN Autos)   Coming crisis of America the Imperialist   (yellowtimes.org) divider line 116
    More: Interesting  
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3705 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2002 at 8:27 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2002-03-06 08:39:01 AM  
Our new Newsmax friends are going to love todays threads.
 
2002-03-06 08:39:54 AM  
[image from img.fark.com too old to be available]
 
2002-03-06 08:41:30 AM  
 
2002-03-06 08:42:12 AM  
[image from img.fark.com too old to be available][image from img.fark.com too old to be available][image from img.fark.com too old to be available]
 
2002-03-06 08:45:35 AM  
I read the same stuff 10 years ago right after the collapse of the USSR. A little bit updated, but the jist is the same. {Yawn}
 
2002-03-06 08:49:38 AM  
if nothing else, i agree with the last line...

"The Bush presidency is likely to be remembered as one of those rare destructive forces in history that leave practically nobody better off. "
 
2002-03-06 08:55:15 AM  
Of course, everything about American foreign policy can be described in terms of the dirty word: "imperialism," and no other nations do this but America. < /sarcasm >
 
2002-03-06 09:09:44 AM  
The author of this piece seems to think that the power of his argument is measured by the number of words.

Essentially, you can sum up his entire argument with a few simple statements. America = Bad, Bush = Bad.
 
2002-03-06 09:13:27 AM  
This is one of the more intelligent articles I've read concerning the fall of the U.S. If anyone needs a clue about the cycles of history, I suggest checking out the Fall of Rome.
 
2002-03-06 09:14:06 AM  
Yellowtimes is about as credible as Newsmax: not at all.
 
2002-03-06 09:14:59 AM  
He's just rehashing the old argument that said with the Soviet Union gone, and no "Red Threat," the US was going to have to tone it down and have a harder time flexing its foreign policy muscles. It hasn't happened in 10 years. Diplomacy is very slow-moving most of the time, too, so it would take a monumental effort by the Bush Administration to actually bring the whole country down, not that I think they would if they could.
 
2002-03-06 09:15:38 AM  
Blah blah blah.. Could the format of that website be any uglier?
 
2002-03-06 09:21:21 AM  
The thing I don't get is its near romantic view of pre dubya U.S. While I'm certainly not a fan of Bush, I really don't think that Nike setting up factories in indonesia was going to lead to some capitalist utopia like this guy appears to be saying.
 
fb-
2002-03-06 09:22:23 AM  
Oh boy, another hippie thinks the US is going to die. What else is new?
 
2002-03-06 09:28:13 AM  
I have a feeling that I vaguely agree with what his Gabriel Ash gut is saying, if only he could say it in a more compact non-verbal-diarrhoea way.

Bloody Hell, it's a boring read!
 
2002-03-06 09:30:22 AM  
When I say 'his' I mean 'this' and why I say 'gut' I mean 'guy'. See what his writing has done to meeeeeeeeee!!!!!
 
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2002-03-06 09:34:11 AM  
Greenhornet,

Today != 200bc

USA != Rome
 
2002-03-06 09:36:40 AM  
Damn Hippies.
 
2002-03-06 09:37:18 AM  
Fb-,

Today !!= Eastasia

Doubleplusgood!!
 
2002-03-06 09:38:47 AM  
Rome fell in 200BC?
 
2002-03-06 09:39:17 AM  
In the interest of equal time, Fark now features both left wing and right wing imbeciles.
 
fb-
2002-03-06 09:40:31 AM  
Blumf,

No.
 
2002-03-06 09:40:51 AM  
Meddik, where have you been?
 
2002-03-06 09:42:46 AM  
Uh, Blumf, I think Fb- is alluding to 200 B.C. in Rome as the beginning of Pax Romana - the centuries of peace, stability and prosperity that marked the height of the empire.
 
2002-03-06 09:45:37 AM  
Pax Americana -- enjoy it while it lasts.
 
2002-03-06 09:45:53 AM  
Nabble he could be but that wouldn't make sense, He was replying to Greenhornet who had refered to the fall of Rome.
 
2002-03-06 09:52:32 AM  
I didn't mean to say that it made perfect sense, I was just thinking that was his allusion (NOT to be confused with illusion. I mean, I was watching - in fascinated horror akin to driving past a terrible accident and uncontrollably slowing to see the carnage - "Glutton Bowl" on Fox the other night as a bunch of guys were trying to eat whole bowls of mayonnaise, and thinking, yeah, this is our own "bread and circuses" phase. I'm not sure if/when America will fall, but I think Jerry Springer/Fox/WB/UPN will have a lot to do with it.}
 
2002-03-06 09:54:04 AM  
Nabbl, Rome was built on the bodies of millions of slaves, it rested on war and horrible expliotation of the rest of the world.

Hey, perhaps Fb's analogy is spot on!
;)
 
2002-03-06 09:59:41 AM  
Well, that was a cheap shot. I thought Rome was built on seven hills...

Didn't get a chance to exploit the Scots, did they? Hadrian just got there and built a wall.
 
2002-03-06 10:04:11 AM  
But will Fb- be playing the fiddle while the US burns?
 
2002-03-06 10:12:33 AM  
200 B.C. was not the Pax Romana

Pax Romana was about from time of Julius Caesar and lasted about 200 years.

Harmonia - Roman slavery was not the same as American slavery, it was not as brutal as you would like to make it out to be, and they did not exploit the rest of the world, as a matter of fact they pretty much left their territories to do as they wanted, as long as they followed Roman law, paid their taxes, and contributed to the army
 
2002-03-06 10:14:42 AM  
Well, it wasn't the fall, either, so I just pointed out that may have been what he was trying to allude... oh, forget it.
 
2002-03-06 10:15:19 AM  
Roman slavery was nice then, a chance to see the world.

All that getting ripped apart by wild animals, the sacking of Alexandria etc, just a leftist myth?

What have the Romans ever done for us?
;)
 
2002-03-06 10:15:19 AM  
I think he probably just didn't know what he was talking about
 
2002-03-06 10:21:28 AM  
This article is insane...My favorite was when he said we were "invited" to go protect countries...I guess that is why the countries we were invited to go to had most of the population that didn't want us there (you know spitting on us, kicking us, punching us...shooting us) Bah..

Oh...he is no history buff either
 
2002-03-06 10:23:11 AM  
Actually, I did not say Roman slavery was nice, just that they were not treated like human chattel as with the America - Africa slave trade. The getting ripped apart by animals were a small minority if you could even call it a minority.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with the Alexandria comment. When you say sack, I assume you mean destroy and I'm sorry that just didn't happen.

As to your question about what Romans have ever done for us, well I think if you are serious, you are an idiot and should go back to school. To start you off, you may want to look at things like law, government, literature, architecture, art, military, religion, language... hmmm.. I may be the idiot here but I always assumed that Rome (and Greece) were the foundations for Western Civilization. But then I could be wrong.
 
2002-03-06 10:23:51 AM  
Crucifixion's not so bad. It's better than being stabbed.
 
2002-03-06 10:24:45 AM  
You forgot roads.

And aqueducts.

Oh, yeah they did do that.
 
2002-03-06 10:26:20 AM  
yeah, i was going to say that but I figured that would fall under the architecture thing
 
2002-03-06 10:28:18 AM  
"Crucifixion? Good. Out the door, first queue on the left, one cross each."
 
2002-03-06 10:28:19 AM  
I guess it's easier to argue about Rome than to discuss the implications of the article?
Why is it that anybody that tells americans facts about their country that they don't want to hear are immediately called "leftists, hippies, commies"....etc?
Does that mean that anyone that doesn't want to know about the state of their country and government should be categorized as "gun-toting, obese, illiterate, drug-addled rednecks"? Because it kinda seems that way.
Do yourself a favour and occasionally read something NOT written by Stone Cold, or Mankind... Your great country isn't so great right now. So fix it already...
 
2002-03-06 10:32:43 AM  
"They say she has wife, you know. Her name is Incontinentia. Incontinentia Buttocks."

Yeah, Dr. Jones, I got it, just made me think of Python.

Lintmagnet - I already did. In my view, it's old hat. That guy contributed nothing but alarmism.
 
2002-03-06 10:38:00 AM  
Dr Jones, Monty Python reference.

I do have a tongue, and I do have a cheek!
 
2002-03-06 10:39:34 AM  
The problem with all this paranoia about the fall of America is that it just does not hold any water. Everyone says that all our allies are turning their backs on us, but really it is pretty much just the Europeans, and that is because they realize how far they have fallen behind. For America to fall, someone else has to step up. Who is that? No one. America is not a superpower, it is, as the French Minister called it, a hyperpower. We are so much stronger than the rest of the world that it is ridiculous. By every way you can measure it, we are stronger. After the new defense budget, we will have a stronger army than the next 20 countries combined . We are also stronger in every other way you can measure.

I don't like Bush, and I don't really agree with many of his policies. However, the US is in the position in the world that it is in not because of one or two strong men and it will not fall because of one or two weak men. America is too well constructed for that, thanks to our Constitution and our Western ideas and values.
 
2002-03-06 10:40:50 AM  
Sorry Harmonia, never saw Monty Python; I take it back :)
 
2002-03-06 10:43:42 AM  
Well, Dr. Jones, I highly recommend it. About the only thing Harmonia and I can agree on, so it must be okay. These lines were from "The Life of Brian."
 
2002-03-06 10:54:00 AM  
Dr. Jones
"The problem with all this paranoia about the fall of America is that it just does not hold any water...... [see above]"

You seem to be mistaking military power for absolute power. Don't forget that something has to pay for all those aircraft carriers, smart bombs etc. etc. That something is the US economy, if that fails the military system will fail.

Now, with that in mind, are actions like this the best long term plan?

It's a complex situation but for sure the US won't fall because of any war, it'll be because of politics and economics.
 
2002-03-06 11:02:12 AM  
Blumf

Yes, I know that military power is not the only thing that matters, that is why I said we are also more powerful in other ways.

Yes, we need money to pay for that and that comes from our economy. That was another point lately for the naysayers and guess what? The recent recession will turn out to be one of the shortest and shallowest ever.

The tariffs on steel is a good example of where I disagree with Bush's policies. However, it is a bit hypocritical of the EU to decry a US tariff when they are causing the problem with government subsidies to their own steel industry. Also, keep in mind that before it was the EU it was the Steel and Coal Commision.

How will the US fall because of politics or economics? Can you give reasons or at least scenarios? The way I see it, if something happens to the US, the repurcussions will be so broad that the rest of the world will be hurt also. Give me one way that the US can be hurt and another country can gain advantage. Remember you are talking about economics and politics.
 
2002-03-06 11:02:56 AM  
Blumf: But the world isn't in a vacuum. If the US economy fails the entire world is screwed. All the worlds economies are tied together pretty well now and if something happens to the US the entire world is going to be in deep doo doo...so it would be in the best interest of the world to maybe talk to us (without idiot alarmism like at yellow times) and tell us what we are doing wrong and explain your views of why it is wrong...

Political problems...I'd tell the rest of the world "Butt out."
 
2002-03-06 11:08:04 AM  
Why hasn't Harmonia jumped in here? I would think this would be irresistible to him.
 
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