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(CBS News)   Armour piercing "hunting" rifle sold in 49 states because of alarming number of deer wearing armour   ( ) divider line 760
    More: Scary  
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24442 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2005 at 2:34 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2005-01-09 07:38:52 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

It's not the deer you have to worry about.
2005-01-09 07:44:39 AM  
Friend of mine has one...

Can't wait to squeeze off a few rounds.
2005-01-09 07:49:45 AM  
Im a big fan of gun control, but nothing that guy said was anything but retarded.
2005-01-09 07:51:48 AM  
Wow my grammar sucks when i first wake up.

Everyone should know what i mean though
2005-01-09 08:08:17 AM  

Diaz also fears the powerful gun could be used to shoot at aircraft that are landing or taking off. The potential danger the .50-caliber poses to aircraft taxiing on the runway or parked at the gate was outlined in a Rand Corporation report on terror vulnerabilities at Los Angeles International Airport. The report saw no way to protect the planes.

I wonder if anyone's told this guy that the same problem exists for sucking birds through the engine - or taking one through the windshield.

If someone's dead set on doing something like this, a .22 LR through a jet's windshield on landing approach (or taking off) would probably do just as well.
2005-01-09 08:16:14 AM  
This is stupid....
2005-01-09 08:16:16 AM  
I fly thru LAX quite a bit, you don't need a farking .50BMG rifle to do anything to the airplanes. Just jump their fence and walk to the planes. Sheesh.
2005-01-09 08:20:42 AM  
A military rifle capable of piercing armor from over a mile away is too readily available to civilians, and could end up in terrorists' hands, say critics of the .50-caliber weapon that is for sale in 49 states.

Um, no.

A .50 BMG round cannot pierce armor from over a mile away. A .50 BMG can hit things more than a mile away (though not effectively unless the target is flesh & blood). You *might* be able to pierce armor with one if you were very close to the target (< 100 feet).

CBS is amazingingly stupid, and so is anyone who buys the asinine scenarios this story proposes.
2005-01-09 08:39:06 AM  
neofonz While you cannot attain the SteelTip AP rounds the BMG can certianly pierce Armor at 1000 feet. The Steeltip AP rounds are for military only and even owning them is illegal I believe.

M16 with a .223 round can pierce body armor at 600 feet.

Only the new OTV Interceptor armor will stop up to 7.62 with the Plates and thats a L3 plate minimum.
2005-01-09 08:43:18 AM  
Diaz is hoping Congress will pass a law requiring that the names of owners of .50-caliber rifles be kept on file.

"No one in the U.S. government knows who has these guns," he says.

I guess he hasn't seen all the paperwork you have to fill out to buy a gun. Even in Texas.
2005-01-09 08:46:06 AM  
As for terrorism, Barrett says, "Any rifle in the hands of a terrorist is a deadly weapon."

According to some (especially in regards to air travel), fingernail clippers in the hands of a terrorist are a deadly weapon. Jebus, people!
2005-01-09 08:49:35 AM  

While you cannot attain the SteelTip AP rounds the BMG can certianly pierce Armor at 1000 feet. The Steeltip AP rounds are for military only and even owning them is illegal I believe.

That's the point I was making -- the article said "capable of piercing armor from over a mile away" which is total bullshiat. The .50 bullets attainable to "everyone" (read: easily attainable by terrorists) could not begin to touch what the article proposes.
Ike [TotalFark]
2005-01-09 08:56:36 AM  
"Pit Bulls are without exception evil and must be destroyed"
"Hayabusas can attain the highest speeds, and so are evil and must be banned"
"A rifle chabered in the .50BMG can damage things or harm people at great distances, and so is evil and we should keep tabs on every person who buys one."
"My cat's breath smells like cat food"

I seriously can't even pretend people who say sh*t like this might otherwise be decent people. String 'em up and shut 'em up.
2005-01-09 08:59:20 AM  
Of course... Here in America its not land of the free but land of the Lawyers
Ike [TotalFark]
2005-01-09 09:27:32 AM  
Yes, but that's the problem... The lawyers aren't all here to piss in our corn-flakes, a good many of them, I'd like to hope the majority, are agents of those laws' very protection.

It's just a great pity that there isn't more common sense floating around the courts of the land. And no, for those wondering, I wasn't overstating the need to hang these people. We're all really better off if they're dead.
2005-01-09 09:41:54 AM  
since we are on the topic of terrorists and their tools... Box cutters were used by terrorists in September 2001 to kill 3000 people. Why isnt there legislation to ban them?

2005-01-09 09:46:30 AM  
OMFG! What are we going to do about cars? I mean, really, they are already used in crimes every get away cars, in drive by shootings and sometimes as a weapon to run people over deliberately! And don't get me started on the accidental and negligent injuries and deaths from cars. Why, just imagine all the lives we'd save by banning cars!
2005-01-09 10:37:06 AM  
Very good point. Why cant we just ask the boxes to open. We need to be more sensitive to the box needs.

//not talking about vagina
2005-01-09 10:48:37 AM  

OMFG! What are we going to do about cars? I mean, really, they are already used in crimes every get away cars, in drive by shootings and sometimes as a weapon to run people over deliberately! And don't get me started on the accidental and negligent injuries and deaths from cars. Why, just imagine all the lives we'd save by banning cars!

How is the 7th grade! Didn't make the debate team again it seems???
2005-01-09 11:12:37 AM  
Yeah, you try a deer rifle on a bear. I'd like video of that.
2005-01-09 11:41:44 AM  
"It's kind of a classic gun industry argument," says Diaz. "First they deny there's a problem and then when something happens, they point the finger at people who tried to warn about it."

It's a kind of classic anti-gun argument. First they create a 'problem' where one doesn't exist, then they point the finger at the people who try to say there isn't a problem.

Yeah, you try a deer rifle on a bear. I'd like video of that.

Any decent .27 - .30 cal round is fine for both deer and black bear. If you're after grizzly or polar bear, I'd go up a notch or two, but you'd never need a .50 BMG for that sort of thing.
2005-01-09 12:37:28 PM  
Y'know what I love about these articles? They give great ideas to terrorists. It's like a step by step manual for cripes sake. Here are our weaknesses, here is how to exploit them, please stop!
2005-01-09 12:53:05 PM  
Alright, pussy liberal time here, but I don't think .50 calibre rifles should be legal. What can you kill with a .50 calibre rifle that you can't kill with a 30.06 or the like? Why do we need a bigger rifle? Just because bigger animals are out there, doesn't mean we have to kill them. I can appreciate hunting as a hobby, but that doesn't mean we have to kill every animal just because we can. I know it's our right to own guns and I will defend that, but a .50 calibre rifle in the wrong hands makes it very easy to do a lot of damage.

And don't say "Any gun can do a lot of damage", I know that it can, but a .50 will do more, plain and simple. I do not see the need for a rifle of that size. I think we need to curb our "I want to shoot a really big gun just because I can".

Take my analogy: there's a reason that there are speed limits on roads and highways. Some people can do great at high speeds and they can enjoy themselves on the roads, and good for them. But lots of people can't handle it and will end up dead. I think the analogy works well.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't own guns, far from it. Own a gun and shoot targets, go hunting for all I care. I don't hunt, I don't like it but that doesn't mean it's wrong. But I think there should be a limit on guns - if we allowed .50 calibre rifles to be legal, where does it end? We'll just keep on wanting, demanding something bigger and better when we get bored of that one.

I understand that a bigger rifle will kill the animal instantly (or at least quicker) so there's less suffering, a sort of "humane hunting", if there is such a thing. But seriously, there's gotta be a limit on it somewhere.
2005-01-09 01:24:52 PM  

Your argument is like saying why should cars that go faster than 55mph be legal?

Why should drinking more than 3 beers be legal?

I dont see good enough reason for it not to be legal.
2005-01-09 02:02:37 PM  

In strictly theoretical terms, why should they be legal if they're not allowed to go that fast anyway? I understand your point though, and yes my argument was flawed.

I guess I don't see a good enough reason for it to be legal. I don't see why we need something that size, given its potential for damage in the wrong hands. I think this is beyond hedonistic luxury. This, to me, is dangerous.

But that's just my opinion, please feel free to disagree with it.
2005-01-09 02:37:41 PM  
Sometimes I think FARK has the greatest concentration of weapons and munitions experts in the world.

2005-01-09 02:43:17 PM  
How on Earth did the Native-Americans ever kill creatures for food and clothing with simple arrows and spears? I can't believe seemingly simple tools were in fact highly advanced technology we have yet to equal. Even today, our civilization still upgrades its weapons in an attempt to keep those animals at bay.
2005-01-09 02:43:23 PM  
Bad news for any deer sporting hillbilly armor. I heard the park ranger told them "You go to graze with the armor you have."

2005-01-09 02:44:03 PM  
Has anyone priced out a Barrett 82A1? They aren't what you would call affordable. Cool as hell? yes.

For shooting down a plane landing, any big bore hunting rifle will do the trick.
2005-01-09 02:44:41 PM  
The wonderful thing about a free nation:

Just because you might not see a "need" for it, does not mean that it is automatically banned. Be it a rifle, a SUV, a sports car, or even a TiVo (all things simply desired, but nothing needed to live), get off your ignorant high horse before joining the "outlaw it" chorus.

Some people just like to shoot big bullets at targets. I notice that the report didn't discuss the very high price tag on these, nor that they are subject to the same background checks as any other firearm.

The anti-gun crowd is getting really DUMB.
2005-01-09 02:45:31 PM  
The end result of all this nonsense is that those of us who lived in California are screwed in terms of owning cool weapons, while people that live in pretty much any other state can own, as usual, whatever they want, even as ridiculous as machine guns and flamethrowers.

I'm not a hunter, but I have had the opportunity to play with a .50BMG rifle and WOW was it awesome. Target shooting at half a mile is really cool.

Something that's curious though is that .50 HANDGUNS are still legal. Yes, that's right, they make .50 handguns. And they're even legal here in California, amazingly enough. One of my local stores has two. Sure, the barrel's a foot long and they have monster recoil, but I'd think that's a bigger threat, if I were into thinking that any of these things were a threat.

Banning a weapon isn't going to stop people who want to use them from nefarious purposes from obtaining them, plain and simple.
2005-01-09 02:45:39 PM  
I think we should consider banning cars, vans and especially Ryder Trucks since they can and have been used in terrorist attacks...
2005-01-09 02:45:52 PM  
Were the deer seen sporting M-16's as well??? :-)
2005-01-09 02:46:03 PM  
i wonder how big the hole could be in a deer, with a weapon like that ... how could you eat something out of it, if it's blown to pieces all over the forest? let's try bazookas to hunt ducks!
2005-01-09 02:46:04 PM  
Point of order: If the terrorist is dead set on using such a rifle for the attack, it wouldn't matter if it was legal or not. Such things are easily acquired and easily imported into the US. At this point, banning the rifle just means one more charge against the terrorist, but does not stop any bad things from happening.
2005-01-09 02:47:50 PM  
2005-01-09 02:48:34 PM  
Just out of curiosity - what would a .50 round do to a deer? From what I understand, these bullets leave really big holes and tend to rip of appendages. Doesn't sound like the kind of gear you would want use for meat hunting.
2005-01-09 02:48:45 PM  
Handsome Jack Manitoba:

Sometimes I think FARK has the greatest concentration of weapons and munitions experts in the world.

Heh. Probably because I'd guess 30% are mil or ex-mil. I have two Barretts, myself. The M82A1 and the M107.

[image from too old to be available]

I also have probably 500 rounds of APIT, it's not hard to come by. But for regular target shooting I'd much rather use plain old ball ammo.

For what it's worth, the Feds do keep track of reloading equipment for 50BMG, unless you're on a military base. I got around having to register mine by "donating" it to a friend of mine that is a rangemaster at an Army base, he uses it to make special hand loads for some SF guys, and reloads mine too, so it's a good exchange.
2005-01-09 02:49:01 PM  
This is one of those bizarro world situations where the LIBERALS use the prospect of TERRORIST ATTACKS to take away our FREEDOMS!

/liberal who hates bizarro liberals
2005-01-09 02:49:34 PM  
If I'm not mistaken , you need a class 3 permit to own one of these.. as if the terrorists are gonna take the time to clear all of the proper channels..

More liberal fishing for things to protect us from..

By the way, a $129.00 SKS will pierce an engine block from at least 50 yards..
2005-01-09 02:49:57 PM  
I really don't think that most of the .50 BMG rifles are used
for hunting. I've seen plenty at long range (1000+ meters)
matches, but never during hunting season. Those
rifles are heavy as hell, so unless you are in a hide or stand
they would wear you out.
2005-01-09 02:50:02 PM  
Looks like CBS is makiing up the news it wants to report (again).
I've seen the gun. A high price toys for big boys. I'll stick to my Sig P220 .45 ACP hidden under my shirt.
2005-01-09 02:50:09 PM  
I expect little but "Because I want it, and the constitution says I can have it!" arguments on the pro side of this...
2005-01-09 02:50:12 PM  
This article is retarted and shows a highlevel of ignorance, this article was only written to alarm, not inform. .50cal rifles are very expensive and mainly used in competition shooting 1000 yards, and even the guys (and gals) who shoot 1000 yards aren't as accurate as you might think.

Another thing to consider is much of the modern sniper technolgy first starts out in the civialian marksmanship world as the government doesn't see fit to invest tons of $$$ in to small arms sniping. Why, well because how would Lockheed, Boeing or other large defense contractor, campaign donor get rich off of it? If the civialian small arms market is stifled it will have a direct and substantial impact on the readiness of our soldiers and the quality of their equipment.
2005-01-09 02:50:19 PM  
How about we have a contest. We'll start at a mile apart. You can have the .50, or whatever you like. I'll take something in 7.62 with a bolt action. Or maybe a Lee-Enfield. Iron sights. I'm guessing I could close to within my shooting capability and hit you first.

These rifles are low-end artillery. In the hands of most people, they're not worth much.
2005-01-09 02:50:23 PM  
Handsome Jack Manitoba

Or at least people who abuse the google bar supplied on each forum.

2005-01-09 02:51:02 PM  

Police are already looking into using specialized weapons to disable the electronics in cars, the installation of 'turn off' switches built into them at the factory, and also tracking everyone in the country with GPS.

Ever rent a car? GPS tracks where you go to ensure that you don't violate rental agreements by going out of state.

Personal privacy? States feel that they can do anything they want as long as they make the rules for getting a license; after all, you don't HAVE to drive. That is, unless you want to work, go to the store, or live a normal life whatsoever...
2005-01-09 02:51:05 PM  
It's a target rifle. It's a toy...a high-end adult recreational toy.

A TOY?'s a toy that can shoot a PLANE out of the sky!!

/Friggin gun enthusiastic MORANS!
//Go USA!
2005-01-09 02:51:42 PM  

"...and yes my argument was flawed."

Well now I've seen it all! Someone conceeds a point on Fark?!? Unpossible!

"But that's just my opinion, please feel free to disagree with it."

You I can disagree with and still respect. Just thought you deserved some props for being one of the few rational human beings left on the planet.
2005-01-09 02:52:05 PM  
Barrett is right. Those guns have extreme range, but that is offset by its extreme weight and size. Diaz's argument would be much better used against a .308 or 30.06 carbine that could be easily concealed, made accurate to nearly a mile, and loaded with armor-piercing rounds. Of course, then he's arguing against my hunting rifle, which he is free to pry from my cold, dead hands.

This is just a bunch of hand-wringing.
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