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(DailyKos)   White House Social Security memo: We must convince the American public that there is a problem   (dailykos.com) divider line 537
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22758 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2005 at 3:54 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-06 11:18:07 PM
Hey, they did it with Iraq. A**holes.
 
2005-01-06 11:21:51 PM
....and the democrats want to convince people that there's no problem. It's called politics.
 
2005-01-06 11:27:19 PM
I want to know who doesn't think that there's a problem.
 
2005-01-06 11:29:23 PM
Social Security will remain viable as long as there are people working paying into it and the economy is growing. But if those two things are not happening then we have more serious problems on our hands other than just Social Security.
 
2005-01-06 11:29:29 PM
The White House thinks there's a problem and in order to enact the policy they want, they need public support. They need to make their case. That's all the memo said. Why is this stupid? And why is Kos "speechless?"
 
2005-01-06 11:31:28 PM
Demetrius The only problem with teh structure of Social Security right now is that it has no means to save surpluses for the future, and the the Federal Government has the ability to raid Social Security income when ever it deems that it needs to.

If a savings plan were to be set up for it and the its coffers deemed sacrosanct then there would be no problems.
 
2005-01-06 11:32:51 PM
If the White House didn't think there were any problems, I'd be more worried, however when they lie to try to convince the public there are more problems than there are, I'm very concerned. If the White House was lying to convince the American public that there are no problems, I'd be spastic. If the White House was lying to cover up the fact that there actually are no problems and we actually live in a pretty good place, I'd be ballistic. Of course there actually are problems, right?

Right?

/Hello??
 
2005-01-06 11:33:42 PM
the only problem is the refusal to do anything useful about it. the republicans want to demonize it as a communist inspired ponzi scheme while the democrats want to maintain the status quo with their fingers in their ears yelling lalalalalalala as if nothings wrong with it. its a fantastic concept and has incredible potential to not only act as a safety net, but an actual method of building wealth while contributing to the economy. its possible, i refuse to belive the brain trust of the us cant do anything better than dissolve it or watch it implode.
 
2005-01-06 11:34:27 PM
Does anybody have that quote from Goering from the Nueremburg trials about creating a threat for the public to believe you?
 
2005-01-06 11:35:57 PM
The only problem with social security is the question of "what will we do with the baby boomers?"

Nobody addresses this point in politics, although it is the most obvious, pressing and important of issues we need to deal with as a society.

But hey, if they dont want to talk about it, we will just have to go to our contingency plan: Just let em die off.
 
2005-01-06 11:36:36 PM
The problem, my dear Voodoochild is that no one can seem to agree on a plan to save Social Security. I don't think it can be saved. I think that the system as it is right now is too open and too easily abused. We should scrap it and start over, along with the tax code, but that's a different thread.

/I'm Mercutio879, and I approve this message
 
2005-01-06 11:36:42 PM
Okay, after reading the memo, I have no idea why Kos is speechless either. It's just a memo that tells why they want to reform social security and how they plan to do it. You can debate all you want about social security privatization (I'm not going to get into it), but there's nothing "evil" or "stupid" about the memo or about wanting to get the public's support for their policies.
 
2005-01-06 11:37:22 PM
voodoochild you have to ask yourself why somebody wants it to dissolve. If it has been so successful for the past 60+ years and is projected to be able to maintain as is for the next 40+ then why does anybody want to dissolve it rather than adjust it to give it measure more stability for the baby boomers?
 
2005-01-06 11:37:28 PM
bulldg4life

Goering:
"Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in American, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship."

Gilbert:
"There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

Goering:
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

--Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 18 April 1946, quoted in Gilbert's book Nuremberg Diary.
 
2005-01-06 11:39:05 PM
That was fast.

/You know what I'm talking about.
 
2005-01-06 11:39:20 PM
Javacrucian

Thank you kindly. I swear, Ashcroft could be saying that.
 
2005-01-06 11:39:41 PM
On Social Security and the two main political parties:

Republicans: We have it within our grasp to move away from dependency on government and toward giving greater power and responsibility to individuals," said Wehner, the director of White House Strategic Initiatives. He called the Democratic Party the "party of obstruction and opposition. It is the Party of the Past."

Democrats: The "precondition" is the key word. Conditioning has been mastered by the republicans. The public is now one collective Pavlov Dog.
This is the kind of propoganda bullshiat lies the Republicans love to do. For Republicans it doesn't matter what you say, it's what people hear.
Disgusting...


Yeah, disgusting. Bunch of farking overgrown children. All of you.
 
2005-01-06 11:40:03 PM
From the memo:

Let me add one other important point: we consider our Social Security reform not simply an economic challenge, but a moral goal and a moral good. We have a responsibility to fulfill the promise of Social Security, not undermine it. And we have a duty to ensure that we do not create an inter-generational conflict -- which is precisely what will happen if the Social Security system is not reformed. We need to retain strong ties between the generations, which is of course a deeply conservative belief.

Hahahahahahahaha! Oh my, that is laughable.
 
2005-01-06 11:40:20 PM
consdubya - The only problem with social security is the question of "what will we do with the baby boomers?"


Ice floes.
 
2005-01-06 11:41:55 PM
bulldg4life
Does anybody have that quote from Goering from the Nueremburg trials about creating a threat for the public to believe you?

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."


/fear my google skills
 
2005-01-06 11:42:20 PM
ArnoldBabar: The White House thinks there's a problem and in order to enact the policy they want, they need public support. They need to make their case. That's all the memo said.

I agree. What, do you want elected leaders to make memos saying "Lets just pass a controversial overhaul without informing the public." Or would you rather just have them ignore the problem saying "Who cares about Social Security! It's heading for disaster, but by then, most of us will be dead. So lets just ignore it and we'll let others fix it later."

This Bush administration memo is exactly what politicians do. They propose an idea, and they make their case for supporting it. Others will oppose it, and make their case known. So should we publish those opposition memos? What if it says they should convince Americans that there is no problem with Social Security. Should we gasp in dumbfounded amazement as well?
 
2005-01-06 11:43:03 PM
Dude, you're like 4 minutes too late.

/Like my raincoat
 
2005-01-06 11:43:05 PM
rcf

but there's nothing "evil" or "stupid" about the memo or about wanting to get the public's support for their policies.

Oh no, how about the $40 Million ad blitz they're about to unleash on the American public....using the American public's money. That's evil.
 
2005-01-06 11:43:50 PM
Google's running a bit slow for all them skillz, I'd say.
 
2005-01-06 11:44:00 PM
bulldg4life

Thank you kindly


My pleasure. Myself, I think the quote would be better applied to the Iraqi Occupation than the Social Security issue due to it's overt reference to war, but the underlying thought is similar to what you're thinking. That is, create a need in your target audience, then propose to fill that need (Ever listen to an evangelist?) I see that from all sides politically, it's made me very cynical =(
 
2005-01-06 11:44:30 PM
...and I'm almost a minute behind.

oh, hell, I'm a huge behind
 
2005-01-06 11:44:56 PM
DAMN!
 
2005-01-06 11:46:01 PM
newmoonpuppyhead Oh no, how about the $40 Million ad blitz they're about to unleash on the American public....using the American public's money.

Source please?
 
2005-01-06 11:46:14 PM
Yeah, I didn't really focus on the SS thing. I just saw the "We must make the Americans think there is a problem"

One of my friend used to talk about that quote and then talk about a quote from Ashcroft in November of 2001. Really scary
 
2005-01-06 11:46:43 PM
Demetrius:

2005-01-06 11:40:20 PM Demetrius [TotalFark]

consdubya - The only problem with social security is the question of "what will we do with the baby boomers?"

Ice floes.



....I dont get it. Ice Floes?
 
2005-01-06 11:46:45 PM
Demetrius If you are on dial-up, all is forgiven, however if not, you must spend a fortnight scrubbing Tub Girl's back.
 
2005-01-06 11:46:45 PM
helix

Lets just pass a controversial overhaul without informing the public.

It has nothing to do with informing. It has to do with providing the information they believe will sway the public. Tell, would you still call this "informing the public"?

I'll never understand why you guys don't hold these ashats in Washington accountable for anything. It's not only a diservice to your family, friends, and neighbors. It's a disservice to yourself.
 
2005-01-06 11:49:20 PM
I agree with newmoonpuppyhead, this whole thing is similar to the Vioxx scandal. It'll help your allergies, by making your head fall off, but it'll help your allergies. We can fix social security, by sending all the old people to Iraq, but that will fix social security.
 
2005-01-06 11:49:50 PM
The tinfoil hat: Republicans want to gut SS, they've raided the account and are trying hard to make it crash. Why? Once it crashes, you have no choice but to be a wage slave to corporations to have health insurance or retirement. Forget about any "american dream"..just work for a multinational corporation.

They want it to crash and burn. When that happens the masses turn, not to goverment, but Major Corporations. They'll own ya then....if they don't already.

/is the hat really tin?
 
2005-01-06 11:50:02 PM
what will we do with the baby boomers?

Push them in front of cars...one by one

Ice floes

Eskimos put their old people on ice floes so they float out into the ocean and die and didn't waste the families resources.
 
2005-01-06 11:50:31 PM
helix

Here's one:

http://www.democrats.org/index.html/

Trust me, you won't find it on the RNC site.
 
2005-01-06 11:50:42 PM
i might have stepped into a pile of crap with the generalizations on the two parties views on ss, i think i should admit that first. anyway.

2005-01-06 11:37:22 PM Code_Archeologist [TotalFark]

voodoochild you have to ask yourself why somebody wants it to dissolve. If it has been so successful for the past 60+ years and is projected to be able to maintain as is for the next 40+ then why does anybody want to dissolve it rather than adjust it to give it measure more stability for the baby boomers?



honestly, i have no idea why some want it dissolved. i can guess, but that wont be too useful here. i completely agree that amending it is the wiser choice over completely reinventing it. why not tweak it as you say. have it adapt to the contemporary economic and demographic framework. ownership is important, partial privatization is possible, and advancing the promise of security it offers is paramount.
 
2005-01-06 11:50:50 PM
I'll never understand why you guys don't hold these ashats in Washington accountable for anything. It's not only a diservice to your family, friends, and neighbors. It's a disservice to yourself.

All he did was ask a farking question. Impugning the motives of everyone who doesn't think the way you do, nmph, is a disservice to civil discourse and debate. We're never going to get anywhere in this country, let alone set about reforming Social Security, with attitudes like yours.

I'm out. Flame on.
 
2005-01-06 11:51:19 PM
Hmmm, it appears that Jello Biafra's spoken word rings truer now than in the 1980s when it was first recorded.
 
2005-01-06 11:51:26 PM
Mercutio879
I like to call it "Destroy the village to save it mentality".
 
2005-01-06 11:51:47 PM
Damn...a Kos link got greenlighted. Bravo!
 
2005-01-06 11:52:01 PM
Code_Archeologist



HA, I've been waiting for an excuse to post this silly picture. I actually cheated insofar as the quote, it was in an email in my inbox ;)
 
2005-01-06 11:52:21 PM
newmoonpuppyhead It has to do with providing the information they believe will sway the public.

Yes, exactly. Republicans think Social Security has a problem. And to reform it, they need to argue that there is a problem. How evil is that!? *gasp* Not all Republicans agree. Not all Democrats disagree. In order to push any reform, you need backing of the American public, and so this memo states they need to convince people of their viewpoint first before they can accomplish it.

I'll never understand why you guys don't hold these ashats in Washington accountable for anything. It's not only a diservice to your family, friends, and neighbors. It's a disservice to yourself.

I do. I just tend to give politicians the benefit of the doubt, instead of acting like I know how to run the country better than they do from my computer chair.
 
2005-01-06 11:55:17 PM
bulldg4life:

2005-01-06 11:50:02 PM bulldg4life [TotalFark]

what will we do with the baby boomers?

Push them in front of cars...one by one


We can even get this to happen by itself. Just organise a "driving fun day" for them in a contained area.

Ice floes

Eskimos put their old people on ice floes so they float out into the ocean and die and didn't waste the families resources.


Thanks for that! Didnt know about that one..... intresting. Very interesting.
 
2005-01-06 11:56:09 PM
newmoonpuppyhead Oh no, how about the $40 Million ad blitz they're about to unleash on the American public....using the American public's money.

http://www.democrats.org/index.html/


What!? American public money? Are you blind? Read it again!

Thers IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Republicans spending their own money on an advertising blitz. Democrats and private groups can (and probably will) do the exact same thing.

Now, if it were taxpayer money, and Democrats had no access to such money, then I would complain.
 
2005-01-06 11:56:18 PM
consdubya - Ice floes...see bulldg4life's answer.

Mercutio - Nope, I'm just slow even though I'm on broadband. And it's me, tub girl, and your mom.
 
2005-01-06 11:56:30 PM
helix

As long as some people are going to continually try to draw a comparison between the motives of the Administration's desire to reform Social Security, and those of the initiatives of the Nazi Party, the rhetoric will continue to ramp up until we see a polarization among Americans that will make the 60's look like a tea party.

We ain't there yet, but we're getting there.
 
2005-01-06 11:57:50 PM
voodoochild tweaking it with private investment accounts sounds good on paper, but in practice it has been a disaster. These plans are costing Britain billions a year, they threaten to topple Chile's economy, and Argentina suffered a serious depression because of them. The thing that is not taken into account is the cost of management and brokerage fees associated with private accounts. Each of these private accounts would cost money, and this money would either have to be paid for by the government or taken out of the account (which would force the account to barely gain more than inflation).
 
2005-01-06 11:57:55 PM
Amending SS won't fix the underlying problem, Voodoo as Ben Franklin said about the Articles of Confederation, when the Constitution was being discussed, a new house built upon a bad foundation doesn't fix the foundation at all. It just wastes a lot of time and money in building a new house. The current SS scheme won't work for long, I've seen estimates that place it in the 20 year outlook before it starts to crumble. If we had amended SS in the 70's or 80's it might have worked, however, it's too late for an amendment, dissolution and a new system is the only shot I think we have.
 
2005-01-06 11:58:58 PM
helix

Yes, exactly. Republicans think Social Security has a problem. And to reform it, they need to argue that there is a problem. How evil is that!? *gasp* Not all Republicans agree. Not all Democrats disagree. In order to push any reform, you need backing of the American public, and so this memo states they need to convince people of their viewpoint first before they can accomplish it.

See, that bothers me. On both sides. I want truth or the closest thing proximating it from our elected officials. We, the people, should demand it. The decisions that are made not only affect us, they affect future generations to come.

I just tend to give politicians the benefit of the doubt, instead of acting like I know how to run the country better than they do from my computer chair.

I can't decide whether that was a slam on yourself or me. Seems to me that a computer chair is to 2005, what a musket was to the American Revolution.
 
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