Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Columbia Journalsim Review)   A review of Rathergate concludes everyone involved, bloggers and mainstream media, was an idiot   (cjr.org) divider line 514
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

15910 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2005 at 8:31 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



514 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all
 
2005-01-04 09:20:33 PM  
Weaver95:

2005-01-04 09:14:30 PM Weaver95 [TotalFark]

Clinton was accused of something along partisan lines in order to discredit him.

That's nice. Still has nothing to do with Rathergate tho.

Bush was accused of something along partisan lines in order to discredit him

Still not seeing the connection to Rather...

Dont know if i can make it any clearer.

I'm either a few drinks behind or not far enough into the bottle 'cause I'm still not seeing the connection to Rather's incompetence in the Rathergate affair.

If you cannot understand it this way, I give up.

Still waiting for the point to emerge here....




Jeez.... ok, rathergate is about rather using false documents to discredit bush, right?

The lewinsky thing was all about muck-racking and getting into personal attacks on clinton.

Both are examples of hyper-partisan types attacking their enemy with whatever they can lay their hands on, regardless of ethics, journalistic integrity or good taste.

Can you see a connection yet?
 
2005-01-04 09:21:46 PM  
I liked the thinly veiled comparison of Rather and Bush made by Steven Colbert during that time. I can't recall it word for word, but in regards to Rather, it was something like "here we have a man in a powerful position, using unconfirmed information, making a horrible decision..." Maybe someone can make a better quote.
 
2005-01-04 09:21:54 PM  
I still think it was created by the cons... This administration does everything in its power including putting our troops at risk to cover up each massive failure after another.
 
2005-01-04 09:21:58 PM  
Huh? Care to translate that sentence into something that make some sense? Who am I yelling at? What am I yelling at them for, and what did I do that was the same thing as what I am yelling about someone else for doing?


In order: No. I did. BBanzai. Following your example. Non-sequiter arguments.

Why do the cons insist on saying "Rather" instead of saying "CBS"?

Because it was Rather's show. He was the guy making all the decisions on what got air time and what didn't. Ultimately he bore final responsiblity for what he did. A rarity in network news, but one long overdue.
 
2005-01-04 09:22:59 PM  
GodsRightHandGimp
Actually burning the plutocracy would have had an influence on the position of slavery. Maybe you need to consult a dictionary.
 
2005-01-04 09:23:25 PM  
make that "Stephen Colbert"..ehhh..
 
2005-01-04 09:23:30 PM  
I take offense to the headline.

No, I'm not a blogger or mainstream media, but I AM an idiot!
 
2005-01-04 09:24:35 PM  
when is someone on fark going to blame bush for all of this? isn't he responsible for everything even remotely negative?
 
2005-01-04 09:24:55 PM  
Oh, and to those who say the images don't match up.... you all better make an appointment to the optometrist.

LittleGreenFootballs had the two combined in a "throbber" animated GIF, and they line up perfectly.

Bill Burkett typed up these memos in Word, wrinkled it up, flattened it out then ran it thorough a photocopier several generations to "age" it before faxing it to CBS (or the DNC, whichever handled it before Rather got it). Why Burkett? Because the fax number on one of the documents matched a Kinko's closest to him.
 
2005-01-04 09:25:13 PM  
Weaver95
That needed repeating. There are really only two conclusions you can draw from RatherGate:

1. Dan Rather allowed his personal bias to cloud his judgement and tried to pass off an attack ad as objective reporting.

or

2. Dan Rather was sloppy and didn't check his sources or verify his information. As such, his incompetence got him fired (as it should).


How about the most likely: A combination of the two. Dan Rather allowed his personal bias to cloud his judgement so that he didn't check his sources or verify his information as he would have if he was skeptical or thinking critically?

I don't mean critical thinking as cynicism or being skeptical as doubting, but rather the journalistic detachment and dedication to the factual truth that was sadly lacking in this case. THAT'S why Rathergate is a big deal, and not because of the argument over whether Bush was shirking his duties or the best darn military officer the Air Force ever saw.
 
rka
2005-01-04 09:26:32 PM  
Although I can't see many similarities between Rathergate and Monicagate, I can see one huge difference, no one tried to smear Clinton with a *fake* cum-stained dress. Although, if they did, would it have been "fake, but accurate?". Just wondering.
 
2005-01-04 09:26:47 PM  
Of course the bloggate is Bush's fault! The tsunami is Bush's fault! Don't you guys find it kinda surprising that no or very few Saudi's died in the tsunami? Something is fishy about it! Bush knew about it and warned his rich friends in Saudi Arabia. Michael Moore will figure it all out!
 
2005-01-04 09:28:00 PM  
Both are examples of hyper-partisan types attacking their enemy with whatever they can lay their hands on, regardless of ethics, journalistic integrity or good taste.

No, they're not. Rathergate was about someone abusing their position in the media and passing off faulty info as fact, then trying to cover it up. Now, you can debate the point if Rather's mistake was personal bias or just plain old sloppy reporting. What you cannot debate is that Rather dropped the ball and was rightly fired for his screw up.

With Clinton we had an elected official who lied under oath, got caught and didn't even try to cover it up. He just waded on thru the muck and kept on trucking. Now, you can debate if Clinton's bad judgement and poor impulse control played a part in how history will judge his adminstration or not. What you cannot debate is that elected officals should be held to a higher standard of behavior than anyone else - especially anyone elected to the higest office in the land.

The two are not even close to being in the same ballpark tho. Unless you have a concussion, that is....
 
2005-01-04 09:28:48 PM  
Memo / Word

[image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available]

This is where it comes from.
 
2005-01-04 09:29:52 PM  
> Non-sequiter arguments.

Right. The argument has been explained over and over again by a bunch of people, and yet you still play dumb. Or is it playing? Don't let the fact that you can't (or won't) see the similarity be confused with the actual validity of the argument.
 
2005-01-04 09:30:16 PM  
Pericles

Don't forget the Jews. Have you heard of any Jews being killed in the tsunami? I didn't think so. Why? Because they were warned in advance, obviously.
 
B82
2005-01-04 09:30:34 PM  
I knew the Rather defenders had lost unconditionally when they started peddling the 'Fake but Accurate' line. And you guys criticize Rumsfeld for saying weird shiat?
 
2005-01-04 09:30:39 PM  
"Indeed, they could be fake but accurate"

Now there is an asinine journalistic assumption. Forgeries are OK as long as someone with a tinfoil hat thinks they are accurate? Sounds like Columbia is covering the MSM ass.
 
2005-01-04 09:30:49 PM  
EvilBobRoss:

Actually burning the plutocracy would have had an influence on the position of slavery.

Must be a slow burn. Next time we need to use gas instead of water.
 
2005-01-04 09:30:55 PM  
The argument has been explained over and over again by a bunch of people,...

So, now if three people yell REALLY LOUD, they're automatically right no matter how stupid or unrelated their point is to the discussion at hand?
 
2005-01-04 09:31:41 PM  
FACT FACT FACT FACT FACT

There's two reasons why Bush got reelected and Dan Rather got the ax:

1. Dan Rather is your typical lying liberal sewer bastard from the bowels of democrat vomit hell.

2. BUSH IS GOD'S PRESIDENT
 
2005-01-04 09:31:52 PM  
rka:

Although I can't see many similarities between Rathergate and Monicagate, I can see one huge difference, no one tried to smear Clinton with a *fake* cum-stained dress.

another similarity - bush was responsible for both rathergate and monicagate. he's also responsible for both ou turnovers tonight (watching the orange bowl while farking).

/oh crap, bush is also responsible for a missed tackle. my bet is that he will soon be responsible for a punt not going at least 40 yards.

//even worse, bush is now responsible for the second ou interception of the game.
 
rka
2005-01-04 09:32:58 PM  
Oh, and as Managing Editor of the CBS News Division..Rather has full accountability on this. He's not some flunky reading the teleprompter, like the goofy anchor on your local news. Rather (Brokaw, Jennings) has damn near total-control over his 20 minutes of news each night. He decides what is news and what isn't.
 
2005-01-04 09:33:13 PM  
rka: maybe the republicans grew the bubbaspooge in a secret CIA lab

</artbell>
 
2005-01-04 09:33:14 PM  
Don't forget the Jews. Have you heard of any Jews being killed in the tsunami? I didn't think so. Why? Because they were warned in advance, obviously.

That's right..I forgot. They probably caused the tsunami to begin with. They set off the earthquake right after they got done drinking the blood of muslim babies in the White House.
 
2005-01-04 09:33:58 PM  
consdubya

Much like democrats were pissed off that allegations they saw as being disproven and heresay were being made against clinton, republicans are pissed off that allegations they see as unsubstanciated are being made against Bush.

Much as I hate to bring Clinton into this entire conversation, his semen is for all to see on the "blue dress", which is pretty hard evidence. Whereas, the memo is a blatant forgery.

Sorry, 8 oranges is not divisible by two apples.
 
2005-01-04 09:35:17 PM  
Sorry, 8 oranges is not divisible by two apples.

'scuse me, go find your own silly liberal to play with! I got 'em first!
 
2005-01-04 09:35:48 PM  
i can make a perfect copy of the declaration of independance on my computer, does that make the one at the smithsonian fake?

i'm just surprised they didn't use the obvious tag, considering the validity of online sources.

and republicans are dumb for just accepting them with no skepticism. or maybe they're just dumb.
 
2005-01-04 09:36:06 PM  

2005-01-04 09:28:48 PM bolie


rtfa
 
2005-01-04 09:36:27 PM  
GodsRightHandGimp
Sense of humor and a sense of perspective; I like that. Wish I lived near you, I'd buy you a beer for being at least a rational human being.
 
2005-01-04 09:36:31 PM  
Cheney caused that touchdown.
 
2005-01-04 09:37:04 PM  
Here we go: (I was way off..but had the general idea.)

Colbert: Well, John, there's gotta be some accountability. Dan Rather is the head - the "commander in chief," if you will - of his organization. He's someone in the ultimate position of power who made a harmful decision based upon questionable evidence. Then, to make things worse, he stubbornly refused to admit his mistake, choosing instead to "stay the course" and essentially "occupy" this story for too long. The man has got to go. ... CBS is in chaos; unsafe; riven by internal rivalries. If you ask me, respected, reputable outsiders need to be brought in to help the rebuilding effort. ... I can tell you, Jon... Jon, I can tell you... Somewhere, Walter Cronkite is rolling over in his grave.
Stewart: Walt- Walter Kronkite is still alive.
Colbert: Not according to my sources... at CBS News.
 
2005-01-04 09:37:16 PM  
RedGuru:

Sorry, 8 oranges is not divisible by two apples.

again, bush's fault. if kerry had been elected president, 8 oranges would have been divisible by 2 apples. oh, and quadrapelegics would have been able to walk again.
 
2005-01-04 09:37:40 PM  
The Mad...

If there's one at the Smithsonian, it's a fake.
 
2005-01-04 09:37:47 PM  
> Much as I hate to bring Clinton into this entire conversation, his semen is for all to see on the "blue dress", which is pretty hard evidence. Whereas, the memo is a blatant forgery.

But there is still plenty of other evidence that Bush did not finish his service honorably in the National Guard. Sure, Clinton was stupid and left a smoking gun in his case and Bush was a bit more careful in getting rid of his smoking guns, but other than that the cases are pretty similiar.
 
2005-01-04 09:37:49 PM  
Ok, so we have some folks who say that some secretary for the National Guard swears the typewriters of the time could make those superscripts, and others insisting that it just ain't so.

So how come, months later, some expert from IBfrigginM or some typewriter collector (you have no idea how many people collect typewriters until you go to a government auction or flea market and see them get into fistfights over particular models just like parents do over Cabbage Patch dolls just before Christmas) can't come forward and demonstrate on live television just how possible this is and show everyone once and for all?

How come, if you want to be thorough about it, someone hasn't managed to track down inventory records or purchase orders to determine just what type and kind or kinds of typewriters were used by the government on those dates and gotten exemplars of all available typefaces or typing balls from museums, collectors, or the manufacturer, to prove that it could have come from a typewriter at the time, instead of relying on some secretary's more than 30 year old recollection?

How come the FBfrigginI can figure out what type and kind of typewriter typed any ransom note or terrorist threat and then go and track down the exact single one that did it...but nobody can even agree that there was a typewriter at the time CAPABLE of producing those documents?

How come, after all that, when I can fire up Word on my piece of crap Dell PC (big mistake, Dell; bigger mistake using Windows, but that's another story) I can type this thing up myself and have it look damn near identical without doing a damn thing to it?

Maybe, just friggin' maybe, it's because some moran typed this crap up on a PC.

/Duh.
 
2005-01-04 09:38:10 PM  
I did not accept what I was told online. I fired up Word and, with no effort at all and without changing settings, created an exact copy of the memo myself.

Then I read the arguments by both sides and smelled for the bullshiat.

Then decided that Rather was an idiot or a lying bastard.

Bolie IV
 
2005-01-04 09:39:25 PM  
Weaver95:

2005-01-04 09:28:00 PM Weaver95 [TotalFark]


No, they're not. Rathergate was about someone abusing their position in the media and passing off faulty info as fact, then trying to cover it up. Now, you can debate the point if Rather's mistake was personal bias or just plain old sloppy reporting. What you cannot debate is that Rather dropped the ball and was rightly fired for his screw up.

What you cannot debate is that elected officals should be held to a higher standard of behavior than anyone else - especially anyone elected to the higest office in the land.


Now that I can agree with. Behaviour such as being open and honest about stuff? The Bush admin is widely known for their openness and honesty.

Quite frankly i dont care if Clinton had his chop sucked by monica or one of the guys from queer guy, I dont see how it has any effect on the country.

If Bush lied about his service time, whilst at the same time sending off people to die for him, i do care. It does have an effect on the country.

You still never answered my question, which was: "Do you really believe that Bush did not go AWOL, and that he served his entire time honorably?"

Keep ducking the question you wuss.
 
2005-01-04 09:39:36 PM  
In others news, Bush went AWOL from a war he supported and avoided punishment thanks to political allies. Also, who gives a fark about Dan Rather?
 
2005-01-04 09:39:44 PM  

if kerry had been elected president, 8 oranges would have been divisible by 2 apples. oh, and quadrapelegics would have been able to walk again.


Not just any quadriplegics--dead quadriplegics.
 
2005-01-04 09:41:13 PM  
> i can make a perfect copy of the declaration of independance on my computer, does that make the one at the smithsonian fake?

That would be a trick. Can I have your William J. Stone engraving handwriting font?
 
2005-01-04 09:42:31 PM  
"In others news, Bush went AWOL from a war he supported and avoided punishment thanks to political allies. "

Uhm, there's no evidence of that, ergo the necessity to forge memos.

Your level of veracity must be that of unsubstantiated rumor.
 
2005-01-04 09:42:33 PM  
Forgeries of the Mona Lisa exist that can fool Art experts. Therefore all paintings are forgeries!!1!!one!!
 
2005-01-04 09:44:05 PM  
RedGuru:

2005-01-04 09:33:58 PM RedGuru

consdubya

Much like democrats were pissed off that allegations they saw as being disproven and heresay were being made against clinton, republicans are pissed off that allegations they see as unsubstanciated are being made against Bush.

Much as I hate to bring Clinton into this entire conversation, his semen is for all to see on the "blue dress", which is pretty hard evidence. Whereas, the memo is a blatant forgery.

Sorry, 8 oranges is not divisible by two apples.



No, but my point in this analogy would be that both apples and oranges are fruit.

Maybe thats a bit over your head though....
 
2005-01-04 09:45:04 PM  
> Uhm, there's no evidence of that
> unsubstantiated rumor.

NO evidence? Unsubstantiated rumor? Are you serious?
 
2005-01-04 09:45:13 PM  
"I did not accept what I was told online. I fired up Word and, with no effort at all and without changing settings, created an exact copy of the memo myself."

It never crossed your mind that MS Word was DESIGNED and CONFIGURED to look exactly like typewritten memos?
 
2005-01-04 09:45:33 PM  
TheMadDefenestrator:

i can make a perfect copy of the declaration of independance on my computer, does that make the one at the smithsonian fake?

You can really do that? I heard rumors that OfficeMax was going to add a forgery and counterfeit line, but I didn't think they would actually do it. the paper and the ink? Do you have a special printer which simulates the mechanical tool marks left by quills?

What paper size would you pick when printing this doc?
 
2005-01-04 09:45:43 PM  
Now there is an asinine journalistic assumption. Forgeries are OK as long as someone with a tinfoil hat thinks they are accurate?

That's not what it's saying, and I suspect you know that. There's evidence besides those (questionable) documents that Bush shirked his guard duties, or at the the very least received preferential treatment. Therefore, even if the documents themselves are faked, the underlying implication could be accurate.
 
2005-01-04 09:46:03 PM  
Quite frankly i dont care if Clinton had his chop sucked by monica or one of the guys from queer guy, I dont see how it has any effect on the country.

Poor impulse control, lack of respect for his office, lack of character....only a partisan hack would let clinton off the hook for damaging the prestige of the Office of President like that.

If Bush lied about his service time, whilst at the same time sending off people to die for him, i do care. It does have an effect on the country.

But it was ok for Clinton to dode the draft and send people off to die to distract the public from his lying under oath?

Riiiiiight. I got where you're coming from now.

You still never answered my question, which was: "Do you really believe that Bush did not go AWOL, and that he served his entire time honorably?"

So, what does Bush have to do with Rathergate again? Still not seeing your point here. I mean, OTHER than your blatantly obvious desire to sidetrack the discussion onto ANY topic OTHER than Rather's liberal bias and the potential effect that had on forming US public opinon over the years.....
 
2005-01-04 09:46:26 PM  
All I have to say is:

Indeed, they could be fake but accurate, as Killians secretary, Marian Carr Knox, told CBS on September 15.

Well, that's a statement to be proud of. Just say it to yourself over and over.

/not joining the flame war
 
Displayed 50 of 514 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report