If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Bush pushing for more faith-based federal funding. However, Muslims, Scientologists, Wiccans, Satanists, Jets fans unlikely to see a penny   (story.news.yahoo.com) divider line 300
    More: Obvious  
•       •       •

12774 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2005 at 4:04 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



300 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2005-01-03 09:33:45 PM  
Jets fans unlikely to see a penny

Or a second-round playoff game.
 
2005-01-03 09:35:17 PM  
bahahahahahahaha *zing*
 
2005-01-03 09:41:06 PM  
I myself belong to the Fark.com cult, and anticipate our funding to come in any moment now.

who's with me?
 
2005-01-03 09:41:56 PM  
Of course, Wiccans, Scientologists, and Satanists don't run homeless shelters. I'm not sure if there's any Muslim charities that do this, but if there are, more power to them.
 
2005-01-03 09:42:27 PM  
Ahh.. good 'ole separation of church and state.
 
2005-01-03 09:42:53 PM  
That's not enough, said Jim Towey, director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.

Jesus, that office actually exists?

I thought whitehouse.com was satire.
 
2005-01-03 09:43:16 PM  
this is a proud moment in history .
god save the queen --;
 
2005-01-03 09:43:52 PM  
Also advancing Bush's initiative: a drug treatment program that is just getting under way. Called Access to Recovery, it gives drug users vouchers to take to any organization they choose including those that rely on a religious conversion to break the addiction. Because the program uses vouchers, it can legally fund explicitly religious activity.

"Many people have overcome addition through faith transformation," Towey said. Counselors in these programs won't have to meet the same medical standards that drug treatment counselors typically must, he said. "There's going to be standards in place, but also, in addition to science, some faith."

That's what worries people like Lynn.


And like me. Taking someone at their weakest and saying that the only way to overcome their addiction is to believe in this one god is insanity. And as a recovering alcoholic and addict having had to deal with people who've done it both ways, I speak from experience. This will see the emergence of a newer and more fierce brand of evangelical - one who's very survival relies on their annointed god and the existence of such.

I'm fighting this one tooth and nail.
 
2005-01-03 09:45:08 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead believe in god or they are cursed to be miserable? That doesn't sound like pushing religion on anyone at all! nawwwwww.
 
2005-01-03 09:45:08 PM  
These guys have it all figured out:



John Titor said so.
 
2005-01-03 09:46:24 PM  
btw I'm being sarcastic of course. I think this is going to be abused. More Bush funding for Christianity. No, muslims and wiccans don't have alot of homeless shelters set up. Which is exactly why this law is being set up to only give money to organization that Christian's run. It bothers me that the government is dipping its hands into all of our pockets and dumping it into this one religion.
 
2005-01-03 09:52:34 PM  
Muslims have lots of charities. At least, I think that's what they are.

Wiccans/Pagans do quite a bit of charitable stuff but lack the numbers and resources to accomplish much. Also, Joe Sixpack would rather put his money toward the church--any church--or any sixpack, rather than giving money to witches. Sad but true.

I think minority religions of all kinds could do more charitable work if they could get in on the faith based initiative.

/Pagan
 
2005-01-03 09:52:54 PM  
Oh hush. Faith based charities do good work. I am not saying that there are no worthwhile secular charities out there, but throw a couple of PETA's out in the mix and I can see that making secular charities suspect.
 
2005-01-03 09:54:06 PM  
Dear god, I'm sick to mah stomach. That money is badly needed elsewhere... Schools, Roads.. Policemen and firemen could use a raise.. Teachers even.

Farkin' A. Isn't there something that prevents the govt. from funding organizations that are 'hate' based?
 
2005-01-03 09:54:14 PM  
faith-based funding.
faith-based pronunciation.
faith-based intelligence information
faith-based civil liberties
faith-based economic plan
faith-based war plan
faith-based judicial nominations
faith-based science
faith-based enviromental studies
faith-based fact checking
faith-based censorship
faith-based inprisonment

You have to have a lot of faith in this president. Facts simply get in the way of faith in this president. Thank God I got those ribbons and flags on my car.
 
2005-01-03 09:55:39 PM  
pionar: the scientologists do. as a matter of fact its an up and coming tactic of many cults. give a poor person a sammich and a sermon. they're (the cultists) learning from the best, most powerful cult ever.
 
2005-01-03 09:56:27 PM  
I wanna be an inqusitor when I grow up!

 
2005-01-03 09:57:30 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

And like me. Taking someone at their weakest and saying that the only way to overcome their addiction is to believe in this one god is insanity.

But, this is different than what you quoted. The quote references a voucher program, which lets the addict choose a program. If some smackhead thinks Jesus will give him the best chance of quitting something, then there's nothing wrong with that.

There's no need to feel threatened by faithful people.
 
2005-01-03 09:59:09 PM  
pionar: There's no need to feel threatened by faithful people.

I should add that you should feel threatened by fundies.
 
2005-01-03 09:59:23 PM  
I'm fighting this one tooth and nail.

Of course you will. But not for the reasons you think.
 
2005-01-03 09:59:29 PM  
"Many people have overcome addition through faith transformation," Towey said. Counselors in these programs won't have to meet the same medical standards that drug treatment counselors typically must, he said. "There's going to be standards in place, but also, in addition to science, some faith."

And here I was thinking that no-child-left-behind was supposed to overcome the addition problem...
 
2005-01-03 09:59:45 PM  
NMPH, don't get me wrong...I agree that farking with someone's mind at their weakest is totally wrong. And I also have serious problems with the co-mingling of church and state funds (but that's a whole rant I'm not gonna get into).

But to be fair, I gotta disagree with you on the resistance to drug addiction counciling vouchers. The possibility of that money going to a religious organization is secondary, relegated to coincidence...the first thing is that it's an avenue for sick people to get help, whatever works for them. I simply can't see that as a bad thing.

If it takes Buddhism, or tree worship, or good ole fashioned "come-to-Jesus" religion for a person to recover from illness, it's not at all fair to deny them that choice. Compassion demands that we don't close off avenues for addicts to get help. In the end, it's still their choice.

We're coming from the same place, though.
 
2005-01-03 10:01:52 PM  
sithon: the scientologists do

Oh, for John Travolta between his "comeback movies"?
 
2005-01-03 10:02:44 PM  
Okay, does it work? Does it make things better for the people that go into these 'faith-based' programs? Are people being exluded? Can someone show me where in our Constituition where religion has to be ignored by the goverment?

There is no discrimination to this program, and seems to be meeting with more sucsess than just goverment programs. That is good right? No one is leaving the only option for rehab or whatever through a religiuos organazation, so in short, quit yer biatchin.
 
2005-01-03 10:03:13 PM  
Come on all, its not like this is surprising. We all know how bush leans, and where his priorities are. And still, he was elected. (groans)
 
2005-01-03 10:07:09 PM  
Yeah, the 6th step is the hardest, innit?

Don't courts already mandate AA meetings?
 
2005-01-03 10:10:39 PM  
edverb

If it takes Buddhism, or tree worship, or good ole fashioned "come-to-Jesus" religion for a person to recover from illness, it's not at all fair to deny them that choice. Compassion demands that we don't close off avenues for addicts to get help. In the end, it's still their choice.

Not exacyly, edverb. AA and NA offer choice. Faith-based only offers my way or the highway. There's no Buddhism or trees involved. I speak from experience.

Weaver

I lived this shiat for 20 years of my life. Unless you have also come down this path, do not hesitate to find another rthread to sprad your gospel of bus.

EatTheWorld

No one is leaving the only option for rehab or whatever through a religiuos organazation, so in short, quit yer biatchin.

It shouldn't even be an option. People undergoing early recovery are desperate. Do you understand desparation? By taking advantage of that, faith-based programs will become nothing more than factories for church enrollment....and a very fundamentalist enrollment.
 
2005-01-03 10:12:15 PM  
whoops...apelling errors everywhere...i meant...spread your gospel of Bush
 
2005-01-03 10:12:40 PM  
Narconon is a Scientologist recruiting organization cleverly named, horrible success rate, and with no association with Narcotics Anonymous, yet they continue to get PSAs past some.

/The more you know!
 
2005-01-03 10:14:46 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

It shouldn't even be an option. People undergoing early recovery are desperate. Do you understand desparation? By taking advantage of that, faith-based programs will become nothing more than factories for church enrollment....and a very fundamentalist enrollment.

How do you know? Did you get "trapped"? My friend Mary went to AA. They didn't offer her a choice, either. When the time came to make a closer relationship with her "Creator", they made sure who she was having a relationship with. My point is, it's not fundies who do these things. Fundies just have their holier-than-thou look and condemn them all to hell.

So non-religious programs don't "indoctrinate" people? Yeah, ok.
 
2005-01-03 10:15:04 PM  
LandStander: Don't courts already mandate AA meetings

They mandate more than that. I had to go to anger management classes for lots of weeks. I never finished the program, instead opted for 10 days in jail. However, I went to both a church based group and a goverment based group.

The church group really aimed at getting at your problems and trying to solve them. The goverment group made you watch videos. Yeah the goverment run program was easier, but the church group aimed at the problem, made you talk to your peers, open up about your, and everyone in that group knew a hell of alot more about each other and what could be learned from each other than the goverment ran 'watch this film and then take a test' group.

I think people bash this kind of thing to quickly, and fail to look at results. I am willing to bet my right and left testicles that people who complete a church organized program versus a state ran one, end up MUCH better off.
 
2005-01-03 10:17:34 PM  
I lived this shiat for 20 years of my life. Unless you have also come down this path, do not hesitate to find another rthread to sprad your gospel of bus.

Walked my sister thru it for the past 10 years or so, now that you mention it. And I'll be doing it again once mom realizes the answers to life aren't in the bottom of a vodka bottle.

Faith sometimes is the only thing that can reach people. I've seen it. Your reflexive hatred and bigotry blind you to the realities of the positive aspects of anything related to faith in God tho.
 
2005-01-03 10:19:42 PM  
Weaver95: Faith sometimes is the only thing that can reach people. I've seen it.

O M F G.

I agree with Weaver95 on something. AHHHHH!
 
2005-01-03 10:21:10 PM  
EatTheWorld:

I am willing to bet my right and left testicles that people who complete a church organized program versus a state ran one, end up MUCH better off.

And cheaper, too. Private charities are always better at keeping costs low while getting more bang for their buck.
 
2005-01-03 10:21:29 PM  
I wish the arts would get as much attention as all this faith-based crap is.

Myabe I should start a 'faith-based' (insert laugh here) drum and bugle corps or colorguard/winterguard program....they are non-profit organizations after all...and beg for some money out of all this.

/trying to beat the system to live the dream :)
 
2005-01-03 10:21:36 PM  
How do you know? Did you get "trapped"? My friend Mary went to AA. They didn't offer her a choice, either. When the time came to make a closer relationship with her "Creator", they made sure who she was having a relationship with. My point is, it's not fundies who do these things. Fundies just have their holier-than-thou look and condemn them all to hell.

So non-religious programs don't "indoctrinate" people? Yeah, ok.


I'm on AA. I've traveled extensively and gone to AAs all over the country and the world. Do not try to explain AA to me. Thank you. If you would like more info, try picking up a pamphlet or book. AA does not force you to choose one god.

I have also gone to faith-based recovery programs and met the people that were the profuct of them. I'll say it again. I speak from experience. Not from anger. Or a mistrust of religion. I have many, many Christian friends.
 
2005-01-03 10:24:15 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

It shouldn't even be an option. People undergoing early recovery are desperate. Do you understand desparation? By taking advantage of that, faith-based programs will become nothing more than factories for church enrollment....and a very fundamentalist enrollment.

Why in the hell shouldn't it be an option? What you obviously DO NOT understand is that is not the only option left to someone. No one is being forced into a program based on religion. However, those 'faith based' programs that offer the same thing as the goverment ( like my story above ) do better, and people are being given a wider range of options on choosing a therapy, school, or whatever. Should people that want a church based but state approved therapy (or whatever) be denied because you don't like religion? Maybe they do? No one is being forced into shiat. It is just raising more options.
 
2005-01-03 10:24:36 PM  
Yes, Weaver. You are correct.

But what you are not understanding is that these programs mandate only one brand of faith. That is wrong. It's manipulative and wrong. You show me a faith-based program where they allow all religions and people's and I'll support it. That's exactly what AA and NA do.

Please understand I am not saying faith plays no role. But people need to be offered choice when they walk through that door. period.
 
2005-01-03 10:25:06 PM  
I agree with Weaver95 on something. AHHHHH!

Sometimes even faith won't save someone tho. I'm not even going to pretend to understand what drives someone to do that to themselves. I can only say that i've seen people get off the [insert favorite mindbender here] with help from their faith or with help from their friends, family and community. It's a day by day thing and everyone's recovery is different.

What I can't grasp is NMPH's automatic dismissal of all things Christian under any circumstances. No appeal, no second chances. He (and several others) can always (ALWAYS) be counted on to be on the other side of wherever anyone Christian stands on any given issue. Hey - if turning to God gets someone off the heroin, then what's the harm?
 
dpr
2005-01-03 10:26:36 PM  
If religion will help you kick your addiction - great. Just don't try to force it on me, please, and we will be friends.

As (another) recovering addict of certain substances, faith most certainly won't work for me. Give me farking rehab or other medical avenues, not Jesus.

But, again, if Jesus works for you, great. He just doesn't work for me.
 
2005-01-03 10:27:31 PM  
EatThe World

You are not understanding that a person desperate for life will grasp at anything. Anything! At that moment, they need to be guided and sheltered until they are strong enough to make up their own minds where their faith lies.

It's brainwashing any other way.
 
2005-01-03 10:28:18 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

I'm on AA. I've traveled extensively and gone to AAs all over the country and the world. Do not try to explain AA to me. Thank you. If you would like more info, try picking up a pamphlet or book. AA does not force you to choose one god.

I have also gone to faith-based recovery programs and met the people that were the profuct of them. I'll say it again. I speak from experience. Not from anger. Or a mistrust of religion. I have many, many Christian friends.


I'm not trying to explain it to you. I'm just trying to show you that your experience is not the same as everyone else's experience. I've met many products of faith-based addiction programs, too, I'd say the success rate that I've seen is about 75% after a year. But that's just the people I know. YMMV.

One was even a Franciscan monk. Volunteered at a hospital with him for about a year. Real cool guy. Hit the bottle after his mom died, and tried the secular way of getting dry. It worked for about 6 months. He then started with a program through the church. That was about 20 years ago. I haven't seen him since 2002 when he moved to St. Louis, but I'd say it worked for him.

I'm just saying, don't be so quick to condemn stuff based on just what you've seen.
 
2005-01-03 10:28:44 PM  
But people need to be offered choice when they walk through that door.

I'm not sure that's true. By the time someone's hit bottom and realized that it's either rehab or death they're generally too fragged to make any clear decisions about anything more complicated than 'fire bad/tree pretty'. They'll sort it all out as they go along.

Or not.

But like I said, every recovery (and every addict) is different.
 
2005-01-03 10:30:12 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

But what you are not understanding is that these programs mandate only one brand of faith.

I know not spoken to me, but you are full of shiat. The constitution does forbid the acknowledegement of religion over another. It is not Bush's fault that faith that provides and works at these programs is Chirstian. It opens the door for everyone. There is no goverment endorced religion from vouchers or a christian President.

Show me a Muslim 'faith based' program being discriminated against and you might have a creedence to your statement, other wise it is bullshiat.
 
2005-01-03 10:30:29 PM  
newmoonpuppyhead:

But people need to be offered choice when they walk through that door. period.

and they are. You can do it their way, or you can walk right back out that door. It's one of the basic rules of recovery centers/groups. They have a prescribed doctrine, and if you can't follow it, you're out. You can always go find somewhere else.
 
2005-01-03 10:30:30 PM  
Weaver

Stop trying to paint me into a corner and turb this into a thread more along your lines. I am not slamming Christianity. If someone CHOOSES that, then good. If not, then bad.

What you are not understanding is that these programs mandate only one brand of faith. That is wrong. It's manipulative and wrong. It's brainwashing. You show me a faith-based program where they allow all religions and people's and I'll support it. That's exactly what AA and NA do.

Please understand I am not saying faith plays no role. But people need to be offered choice when they walk through that door. Period.

Otherwise, it is brainwashing!
 
2005-01-03 10:31:14 PM  
Hey nmph, just curious, whatta think of these folk?
 
2005-01-03 10:34:06 PM  
I'm not sure that's true. By the time someone's hit bottom and realized that it's either rehab or death they're generally too fragged to make any clear decisions about anything more complicated than 'fire bad/tree pretty'. They'll sort it all out as they go along.

Or not.

But like I said, every recovery (and every addict) is different.


Guess what? WE AGREE!

A faith-based program immediately attaches Christianity and God to your recovery. That is wrong. These people need to be made stronger and then allowed to make thier own choice.
 
2005-01-03 10:34:35 PM  
What you are not understanding is that these programs mandate only one brand of faith.

They're the only ones interested in doing the hard work to rehab people. It's heartbreaking work, there's no profit in it for the private sector and state run rehab programs are inefficently run with terrible recidivism rates. So if Christian groups work well enough, why not give them additional funding? It's not like anything else is working.

And let's face it - some people in rehab NEED a good brain flush. That's a scary, scary place with some scary, scary people in desperate need of drastic solutions to save their lives.
 
2005-01-03 10:35:38 PM  
You are not understanding that a person desperate for life will grasp at anything. Anything! At that moment, they need to be guided and sheltered until they are strong enough to make up their own minds

So what you are telling me is that would rather have the federal goverment brainwash this weak mind? Rather than a religious person? Why do you pick the goverment? They have farked up so much, you would trust them with a fragile mind? I would trust it with someone who might actually give a shiat about that person, not some state worker. But hey that's just me.
 
Displayed 50 of 300 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report