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38869 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2004 at 8:31 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2004-12-30 01:11:32 PM
eyedvmtech

It cuts both ways. There are those who thank God / Krishna / Allah / Arthur Guinness or whichever deity your parents and upbringing forced you to worship whenever they survive an earthquake / tsunami / both / win the lottery / win the superbowl / get bought a Guinness - if that's fair, then it's also fair to flip him the bird when things don't exactly go as planned down here on Gaia.

Personally, I think that God (generic) is not to blame for anything, therefore should not expect to pick up credit for anything either. We, however, have a lot to answer for, purely because we can.
 
2004-12-30 01:11:37 PM
J.G. Longbotham

That being said, I don't think any one country owes any other country anything, unless there are treaties between them.


When I see people in need of my help I tend to feel I owe it to them to help if I am in a position to do so. I also don't think it should come down to which country's government we are currently friends with when considering who to help.
 
2004-12-30 01:11:38 PM
Bush is spending more on his upcoming inauguration than on relief funds. Inaugurations have to be the most pointless waste of taxpayer funds in existence.
 
2004-12-30 01:13:27 PM
Jean-Puc_Licard:

Bush is spending more on his upcoming inauguration than on relief funds. Inaugurations have to be the most pointless waste of taxpayer funds in existence.

Please, the Emperor's Coronation is very important. This will be the last inauguration in America for a long, long, time so you might as well enjoy it.

/Not serious
 
2004-12-30 01:14:49 PM
adrosal

One step further - they're not customers, they're CONSUMERS.
 
2004-12-30 01:16:58 PM
NEWS FLASH: No one at the UN called the United States stingy. The right wing nuts are just using the quite reasonable reaction of a UN official (who called western countries collectively stingy, not singling out the US) as a political opportunity to bash an organization against which they had a predetermined agenda. And, as usual, it didn't bother them to misreport and twist the statement in order to accomplish their goal.

Apparently, the notion that we should be more concerned about the people in distress than in scoring points against the UN never occured to these simpletons.
 
2004-12-30 01:17:08 PM
Please don't jack an already long thread.
 
2004-12-30 01:18:07 PM
I don't know if this has been said, but I have to comment on that pastor's statement - Most of the Tamil Nadu victims were Christian pilgrims in Velankanni next to the famous church of "Our Lady of Health". How can he explain that?

There were thousands of pilgrims on the beach around the church. First wave was small and it just took people's belongings from the beach. Many people ran towards the see to catch their stuff when the large wave hit. Many of those were children laughing as they were running after the stuff. Christian children died around and even in the Christian church while there was a mass in the church?! I'd really like to hear Christian explanation for that..

And just to add, even though there is lots of Muslims here in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, they would definitely not be happy if such tragedy would happen to USA as somebody suggested above. I was surprised to see Muslims here putting a star on their houses and celebrating Christmas here together with Christians. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and others live here very nicely together and it's so sad that such a tragedy happens to such peacefull and kind people.
 
2004-12-30 01:18:11 PM
On the bright side, Britain's aid pledge has just increased from £ 15 million to £ 50 million.
 
2004-12-30 01:19:26 PM
jaynleng, the problem is we only seem to ever REALLY step in when it serves our own needs or at least lets our brass test their new toys. And look at this current situation...we have Bush coming out like the massive blowhard he is and saying how the US will lead the relief efforts even as it's apparent we'll be grossly shown-up by most other contributors percentage-wise (and face it, that is the only true measure of generosity).

Our government tends to enjoy posing and acting like a pillar of self-sacrifice, but it's just that: AN ACT. It doesn't fool anyone anymore, and comes off looking pathetic to other nations and is rather embarrassing for those of us who realize it.
 
2004-12-30 01:20:33 PM
trousered ape
I don't know if this has been said, but I have to comment on that pastor's statement - Most of the Tamil Nadu victims were Christian pilgrims in Velankanni next to the famous church of "Our Lady of Health". How can he explain that?

Altogether now....

God moves in mysterious ways

/copout
 
2004-12-30 01:21:26 PM
Elchip--
Thanks- thats exactly the math I was too lazy to do! thank you : )
 
2004-12-30 01:21:40 PM
My girlfriend is planning on taking a vacation in Bali next month, does anyone find this Ok?
 
2004-12-30 01:22:59 PM
Indonesia Needs Help, Death Toll Expected To Exceed 400,000
Thu Dec 30 2004 12:52:01 ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 (Bernama) -- The death toll in Acheh, the region worst hit by last Sunday's tsunami, may exceed 400,000 as many affected areas could still not be reached for search and rescue operations, Indonesia's Ambassador to Malaysia Drs H. Rusdihardjo said Thursday.

He said the estimate was based on air surveillance by Indonesian authorities who found no signs of life in places like Meulaboh, Pulau Simeulue and Tapak Tuan while several islands off the west coast of Sumatera had "disappeared".

He said the latest death toll of more than 40,000 in Acheh and northern Sumatera did not take into account the figures from the other areas, especially in the west of the region.

"Aerial surveillance found the town of Meulaboh completely destroyed with only one buiding standing. The building, which belonged to the military, happens to be on a hill," he told reporters after receiving RM1 million in aid for Indonesia's Tsunami Disaster Relief Fund here Thursday.

Rusdihardjo said there were about 150,000 residents in Meulaboh, which was located 150km from the epicentre of the earthquake while Pulau Simeuleu had a population of 76,000.

Ambassador Rusdihardjo said a combination of earthquake and tsunami had left 80 to 100 per cent of infrastructure in Acheh province, such as hospitals, health centres, transport and communication networks and homes, destroyed.

"Looking at the scale of destruction, it's difficult to say when the search and rescue operations can be mounted in all affected areas," he said.

He said rescue efforts were hampered by transportation difficulties and lack of fuel.

Rusdihardjo said that at this time international help, especially in the form of medicines, clean water, food and clothing, were desperately needed by Indonesia to aid survivors in Acheh.

"Now we are worried about the outbreak of diseases such as cholera, the work of disposing corpses and the absence of clean water following the contamination of water sources," he said.

It would take years before the situation returned to normal, he said, adding that the Indonesian government was not able to estimate losses caused by the tragedy as yet.

He expressed his gratitude to Malaysia's help although the country itself was hit with 66 lives lost so far and property to the tune of millions of ringgit destroyed.

"We are deeply touched," he said.

Rusdihardjo said Indonesia was also seeking Malaysia's cooperation to mount search and rescue operations from its shores because of the close proximity of the two countries.

-- BERNAMA
 
2004-12-30 01:23:13 PM
Jean-Puc_Licard

I suppose you believe that your great country doesn't wastefully spend money like you accuse the United States of doing.
 
2004-12-30 01:23:39 PM
I forgot to add, trousered ape, that in the rest of your post (which I ignored just to get the quick funny in) you have made my day by reaffirming my faith in HUMAN nature. May your God bless you.
 
2004-12-30 01:24:28 PM
Why should we give them a dime? It'll only make them hate us more to take charity from us "infidels".
 
2004-12-30 01:24:49 PM
BeerNut:

I suppose you believe that your great country doesn't wastefully spend money like you accuse the United States of doing.

Because, you know, if your country does it too, that makes it okay, right?
 
2004-12-30 01:24:58 PM
luckyeddie


Hmmm. Sir, I thank you.

If I ever had any doubts about my religion, or rather my lack of it, and my belief that Man created God in his own image, your 'consider this' bit put things into words far more succinctly than ever I could.

I was just going to say I stand by my 'child-murdering piece of shiat' statement.

--luckyeddie. I'm still going to hold you to making up your mind. Now what is it? 1.God is a creation of the mind of some humans or 2.the "child............shiat" who created all you see and all you don't for his own sadistic pleasure?
Can't have it both ways bud.
 
2004-12-30 01:25:33 PM
i wonder what impact this will have on tourism over there
 
2004-12-30 01:26:25 PM
That being said, I don't think any one country owes any other country anything, unless there are treaties between them.


Economists understanding of game theory has led them to believe in the vital importance of cooperation.

Social psychologists have identified the importance of group and intergroup relationships that are mutually constructive.

Biologists have discovered that evolution actually creates in us tendencies towards cooperation.

Every philosopher since Hobbes has ended up resolving their position to some aspect of cooperation being the essence of human existence.

The basis of most organised religions involves some aspects of mutual support and cooperation.
 
2004-12-30 01:27:27 PM
Why should we give them a dime? It'll only make them hate us more to take charity from us "infidels".

How long have we been at war with Theravada Buddhism exactly?
 
2004-12-30 01:27:50 PM
The Evil Dr. Black
My girlfriend is planning on taking a vacation in Bali next month, does anyone find this Ok?

Yes. What the people want is normality (don't think Bali was hit by this tragedy) - and tourist dollars.

My sister's supposed to be going to the Maldives in a few weeks - and if she's reading this, yes, Chris, I think you ought to go too for the same reason. Your thirst will pay for half a hotel as well as a local brewery.

/I joke
//not about the thirst.
 
2004-12-30 01:28:28 PM
National Geographic had a cover story about global warming and the effects that just a *gradual* rising of the ocean over time would have on this area of the world a few months ago, and that alone was troubling. This is just unbelievable. They got God knows how many years of rising seas in one snap. Terrible.
 
2004-12-30 01:28:43 PM
Who wants to bet Bush will announce a "War on Tsunamis" to boost his approval rating.
 
2004-12-30 01:29:07 PM
"Indonesia Needs Help, Death Toll Expected To Exceed 400,000"

Number of Islands in the Indonesian archipelago: 17,508
 
2004-12-30 01:29:28 PM
DasWiggy:

Why should we give them a dime? It'll only make them hate us more to take charity from us "infidels".

I assume you are talking about Muslims here, the new source of American fear. Here's a little update on the area for you, taken from your own government; note that Islamic nations are in the minority:

Source - CIA World Factbook:

Sri Lanka - Buddhist 70%, Hindu 15%, Christian 8%, Muslim 7% (1999)
Indonesia - Muslim 88%, Protestant 5%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 2%, Buddhist 1%, other 1%
India - Hindu 81.3%, Muslim 12%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other groups including Buddhist, Jain, Parsi 2.5%
Thailand - Buddhism 95%, Muslim 3.8%, Christianity 0.5%, Hinduism 0.1%, other 0.6%
Malaysia - Muslim, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, Christian, Sikh; note - in addition, Shamanism is practiced in East Malaysia (percentages unavailable)
the Maldives - Sunni Muslim
Burma - Buddhist 89%, Christian 4% (Baptist 3%, Roman Catholic 1%), Muslim 4%, animist 1%, other 2%
Bangladesh - Muslim 83%, Hindu 16%, other 1%

Of course, religion and politics shouldn't play any factor when you are talking disaster relief, IMHO.
 
2004-12-30 01:29:52 PM
How long have we been at war with Theravada Buddhism exactly?

Is that why Sri Lanka told Israel "no thanks" when it offered help?
 
2004-12-30 01:30:23 PM
Ubergrendle
Time to do some serious reflection about how fortunate I am to live in North America.

I was actually thinking among the same lines this morning. Something I normally biatch about is the winter weather. "This weather sucks! There's no reason for it to be this cold! Why don't I live somewhere warm and tropical?"

I've noticed since this tragedy, the weather doesn't bother me so much. I mean hell, if that's all I've got to biatch about, I am living a charmed, blessed life.
 
2004-12-30 01:30:25 PM
Tigger, there are a lot of religions over there...Buddhists, Muslims, et cetera. Americans are not popular people. We should stop trying to be popular. If they don't like us, fine. We're free to not like them back.
 
2004-12-30 01:30:37 PM
The Evil Dr. Black: As long as it doesn't further burden them. But if I were her, I might take a day to lend a hand in some way. Donate to a local school, give blood locally...something.
 
2004-12-30 01:32:30 PM
DasWiggy

Why should we give them a dime? It'll only make them hate us more to take charity from us "infidels".


Because a lot of the people affected aren't muslims. Because a large majority of the muslims involved probably aren't a prejudiced against you as you are against them. Because maybe, just maybe it will help atone for you being such a moronic asshole.
 
2004-12-30 01:32:31 PM
2004-12-30 01:24:28 PM DasWiggy

"Why should we give them a dime? It'll only make them hate us more to take charity from us "infidels"."

Que the pac-man dying noise. Weak troll effort. You are late to the party.
 
2004-12-30 01:33:03 PM
Thanks luckyeddie but I would prefer if no god would bless me. I just saw what his blessing looks like.

And you are right, that is the most probable christian answer. Next to the one that god is testing our faith...
 
2004-12-30 01:34:19 PM
Tigger: Why are you even trying? ;-)
 
2004-12-30 01:34:30 PM
"No, it's kind of fascist."

Actualy, it's just one of the quirks of Farking. Sometimes the mods delete things for no apparent reason but to themselves. I've been banninated and had post deleted too. It's part of Farking
 
2004-12-30 01:35:18 PM
I believe in God, but I don't believe God does this. Mother nature does this, vis-a-vis the natural laws of the universe God created (I guess I'm a deist). This isn't punishment, this is what we get in exchange for free will - we must deal with the consequences of those laws, and coincidentally many may lose their lives as a result. Unfortunate and painful, but shiat happens.

But a life of free will is a beautiful thing, no matter the cost.
 
2004-12-30 01:35:24 PM
neapoi:

Ya know folks - the world is in a sad state of afairs when, upon a posting of the death toll of a major international disaster, you become angry at eachother and act like 4 year olds.

Seriously, grow up.


agreed.

 
2004-12-30 01:35:26 PM
drudge just reporting that 400,000 may be dead..
 
2004-12-30 01:36:30 PM
2004-12-30 01:11:09 PM Calvin Hobbes

The US doesn't OWE anything to other countries. Still, you claim that your President is the just and fair Leader of the Free World, and a good Christian at that.


I never said that. I think quite the opposite, in fact (see profile).

I help others as well, but others who are grateful and who can help others in turn when they are able. That does not include foreign nations where the governments are adverse to our interests.
 
2004-12-30 01:36:41 PM
zed8
Can't have it both ways bud.

I could if I was agnostic, but you are right. Colours nailed to the mast - I am an atheist. That doesn't mean that I'm not allowed the right of reply though.
 
2004-12-30 01:36:50 PM
Tigger, there are a lot of religions over there...Buddhists, Muslims, et cetera. Americans are not popular people. We should stop trying to be popular. If they don't like us, fine. We're free to not like them back.


Hate to be outwardly rude and personal but I think that's pretty ignorant. Especially when "over there" comprises 11 countries and millions of adherents to the world's four largest religions.

Thailand is ninety-eight percent Buddhist. They dont' hate Americans. You don't know what you're talking about.
 
2004-12-30 01:36:57 PM
The Evil Dr. Black
My girlfriend is planning on taking a vacation in Bali next month, does anyone find this Ok?


Yes. The damaged economies need people spending money there. If the tourists dry up so does all their cash... another disaster.
 
2004-12-30 01:37:12 PM
Scary, sad, horrific.
 
2004-12-30 01:37:15 PM
And I thought Stormwatch 2004 Southern California was bad. Those were the worst 2 days of my life.
 
2004-12-30 01:37:16 PM
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm
 
2004-12-30 01:37:32 PM
Let me put it this way for y'all...The French currently hates us. This is after we rebuilt their country, helped them get nukes, defended them against the Soviets, and arranged for Germany to no longer pose a threat to them. In 1944, we bombed the shiat out of France. We shelled them from the ocean. We launched two major invasions of their country. We fought major battles throughout most of their country, trashing most of it. AND THEY LOVED US FOR IT.

When we've bombed people, they loved us. When we were nice, they hate us. It's better to be feared than hated.
 
2004-12-30 01:37:36 PM
DasWiggy: So when President Bush continually denies that we are conducting a war on Islam, he's lying?

/not saying we are, but you sure sound like it
 
2004-12-30 01:38:37 PM
Let me put it this way for y'all...The French currently hates us. This is after we rebuilt their country, helped them get nukes, defended them against the Soviets, and arranged for Germany to no longer pose a threat to them. In 1944, we bombed the shiat out of France. We shelled them from the ocean. We launched two major invasions of their country. We fought major battles throughout most of their country, trashing most of it. AND THEY LOVED US FOR IT.

Your understanding of global politics is awesome. In the traditional sense.
 
2004-12-30 01:38:40 PM
Just don't send ironic supplies such as water bottles.
 
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