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(CNN)   U.S. Airways asks non-union employees to work for free over the holidays   (money.cnn.com) divider line 343
    More: Unlikely  
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15318 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2004 at 4:41 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-29 11:04:47 PM
Ugh. If you create economic difficulty for the millions of 'dumbasses' who handle bags and etc., who the hell is going to be able to afford to buy the product? Every job you take away from the middle class ends up hurting other people in the middle class because there is less spendable money laying around, and therefore there are smaller profits to be made, and from that you get the need to cut additional jobs, and so on.

Greed has been the downfall of pretty much all the major civilizations that have collapsed. What the hell is to say that it can't happen here?
 
2004-12-29 11:09:06 PM
All you union members say no. Insist on higher pay for less work. You are parasites and don't let anyone forget it, even if he company has to fail.
 
2004-12-29 11:09:10 PM
 
2004-12-29 11:11:22 PM
#1 reasons not to invest in Airline. Farking Unions.
 
2004-12-29 11:18:27 PM
The argument for capitalism says:

"The profit motive makes people work harder, hard work is good for everyone in the long run. "

And then when you ask about the poor, and how they can share in the success of capitalism.

They say:
"They should work hard to get a 'good' job."

why should you do this,... so that you don't have to work so hard and your life will be easier.

They say that the hard work they have done entitles them to the continued enjoyment of the life style they currently enjoy. And the obvious converse is that anyone with less didn't work as hard, so don't deserve any more.

However that denies the luck that's involved, and the necessity of the "bad" jobs. Who's going to teach your kids and police your streets, and clean your toilets if everyone is educated and prepared for a "good job" there are only so many CEO's positions to around.

What it boils down to is someone has to do the menial labor. Are you really that unwilling to share? Is it within your realm of the ethical, that people work hard every day, and their children do not have medical care, do not have a good education.

Even if you think lazy stupid people deserve what they get, what did their children do?

//what if you have a retarded child, or just slower than you are, do you want him paid a bowl of rice a day, cause "Anyone could do his job."

//yes a CEO creates more profits for his investors by a his decisions than a janitor, but why is Ken Lay and the ilk given special treatment. He and his band of thieves stole more from each and every californian, than many people are sent to prison for stealing from one.

//With great power comes great responsibility... unless it's a limited liability type of power.
 
2004-12-29 11:19:12 PM
All of this right wing/objectivist (Yes in fact, I do wanna say Randroid...) rhetoric kinda reminds me of one of my favorite exchanges from 'Cool Hand Luke.'

Dragline - He ain't in the box because of the joke played on him. He back-sassed a free man. They got their rules. We ain't got nothin' to do with that. Woulda probably happened to him sooner or later anyway... a complainer like him. He gotta learn the rules the same as anybody else.

Luke - Yeah, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get.
 
2004-12-29 11:22:37 PM
Also, it's funny that every Objectivist/Libertarian/Dittohead that I've ever met was a "self-made" man... However, few will ever admit that the job was mostly a pre-fab kit.
 
2004-12-29 11:33:19 PM
IamGod2u:

2004-12-29 10:56:31 PM IamGod2u [TotalFark]

A highly educated, skilled problem solver with specific critical thinking skills needed in a particular field needs a UNION to protect his job, or to provide him with competitive wages and benefits? NO. His/her skills will ensure that happens because they have MARKETABLE skills. Supply and demand, remember?


Supply and Demand has nothing to do with it. Nor does the fact that you are highly skilled.

We need unions because we can not depend on employers to provide us with dignity, a measure of security, and a rising standard of living. Unions are the only force in our society that can check expanding corporate power and strike a healthy balance between the power of employers and the rights of employees.

Nurses, doctors, psychologists (highly skilled profession)
use unions because they care about their patients and the quality of care they are providing. They want a voice in setting and maintaining the standards of their professions rather than HMOS, insurance companies and the government.
 
2004-12-29 11:33:27 PM
objectivism is just an apology for greed.


It says, greed is good because it is the basis for the profit motive...


and you feed into my previous post.

//greed is the ultimate source of evil, causing someone else hardship or pain for your own benefit desire.
 
2004-12-29 11:34:08 PM
Hmm, you want me to work over the holiday? For free? I'll get right on that....

Unions do have a place and maybe some new "form" of that concept (collective bargaining, worker protection from
abuses) would do better.
There are so many companies totally taking advantage of their workers and keep doing it because nobody stops them.
We need labor law reform and I don't see Bush doing it unless he is forced to.
Sadly the worker abuses has crawled up the food chain into white collar jobs. Salary wage abuses (love those 80 hour work weeks where I make slave wages an hour), having benefits taken away, wages dropped etc.
Nothing is going to change until the public biatches loudly.
People can not empower themselves and get ahead when the other guy in the game (big companies) keep cheating the rules.
 
2004-12-29 11:41:16 PM
morganna: Nothing is going to change until the public biatches loudly.

and the public isn't going to do any biatching as long as they can buy their cheap American flags made in china at their local Walmart. Not to bash Walmart, however... almost every store now sells mostly china made crap.
 
2004-12-29 11:47:32 PM
Hey forditude, that was a nice link. Lots of claims, 0 sources. Guess I need to pay money to read the book and find them. I'm sure the professor of economics at a Catholic college(Just wanted to see what type of school it was, 7000 students and offers a couple doctorates) included them in his book. Yet, as a poor university student, I don't particularily like paying for books I don't need to.

Because, you know, I've never had trouble finding sources to claim that unions boost productivity, or increase wages. Never. I've found only one study to claim the counter. I've found plenty of studies to claim that unions lower profitability. So, thanks for the link, are those of us who are somewhat pro union going to get a better one?
 
2004-12-29 11:48:24 PM
Codyl

Hate to break it to you, but what decides the value of labor is good 'ol supply and demand.


Ah, so there's apparently a very strong "demand" in the market for executives who will drive a company into the ground, and then collect a $45 million severance package?

I guess that's why the "supply" of said executives is so high?

;)
 
2004-12-29 11:58:45 PM
What I find amusing about the Objectivist arguements, is that they seldom seen to apply their own logic consistently when large corporations are involved.

I mean, here's a story about corporate execs demanding that people work for FREE (ie: saying that thier labor has ZERO value), and the Objectivists find this to be acceptable behavior. Because it's a corporation doing it.

Yet, if a normal non-corporate type tried to do the same thing to them, then they'd suddenly remember that stealing someone's labor is bad.

It's an odd sort of blindness that assumes that anything wearing "free-market" clothing must be perfectly fine... no matter how non-free and coercive the arrangement actually is.
 
2004-12-29 11:58:49 PM
The "invisible hand" of the economy just gave you a prostate exam.
 
2004-12-30 12:01:24 AM
Predictions for 2005:

Most major airlines go out of business.

Japanese yen goes from 104 yen per $ to 33 yen per $, US Treasury debt surrenders.

A major chocolate shortage grips the candy industry.

/most farkers would only worry about the chocolate shortage, or course...
 
2004-12-30 12:35:37 AM
U.S. Airways asks non-union employees to work for free over the holidays

Is the CEO working for free? Or only ununionised ponces?
 
2004-12-30 12:52:00 AM
Why do you Union bashers hate America and Freedom so much? go back and live with your master Adolf HItler and Joe Stalin, they hated Unions too.
 
2004-12-30 01:15:57 AM
Unions are like cops. You can't just get rid of the cops once crime is on an acceptable level.
 
2004-12-30 01:21:14 AM
atomiccat

doubt you're still around reading this thread, but i just wanted to say that i feel for you. my wife has been a UAIR employee for 9 years now and the recent pay cuts have been rough on our family income. the impending liquidation is going to really hurt.

yeah, i know fark is the official home of heartless anonymous opinions, but it still pissed me off to see how many people are taking pleasure in the downfall of a company and more than 30,000 workers losing their jobs. yeah, just get off your ass and get a better one, right? quit complaining. start a new career. take a year off and go back to school. oh you're a 70 year old retiree? well fark your pension. it's gone. go back to work as a wal-mart greeter. it's all so easy to do and anybody who is having a hard time dealing with deserves absolutely no compassion.

reality check. we're all farked. that includes all of the SUPER CAPITALISTS in this thread. things are nice now, right? you're single, making decent coin, lots of expendable income. watch what happens when you reach a decade on the same job and your employer decides your loyalty is a liability. that by replacing you with somebody younger, management can save money. you'll be out on your ass in your mid 40's, looking for a job where you're guaranteed to make 25% less. farked.
 
2004-12-30 01:44:30 AM
Can we move onto a more important subject - like boobies!?!
 
2004-12-30 01:55:19 AM
I'll be the first to admit I know nothing of how the presence or absence of worker unions really affects things. I also suspect I know roughly as much as anyone here, regardless or their level of education or self-perceived intelligence. Everyone get off your damn soapbox already.
 
2004-12-30 02:11:46 AM
As may have already been stated in a thread too retarded to read all the way through:

Most companies that have unions, deserved them...
 
2004-12-30 02:34:16 AM
US Air Express Employee

That said I can also say that everyone in the Charlotte station is repulsed at the crap going on in Philly. Seems the actions of a few are going to affect many more with job losses. These farktards in Philly don't seem to realize that even after the pay cuts....they are still making more there than they could at any other cargo/freght handling job anywhere else. But in order to prove some point that really doesn't exist, they are willing to go jobless rather then keep what they have.

A lot of the individuals got in prior to there being a requirement for a high school education....have been entrenched there for so long that they think they run the company & will be the ones that go from 19.00/hour to the minimum wage job just so they can say they "won".

This is not the 1st job action from Philly. Last year at this time we had several planes come in with the bag tags ripped off & stuck in a bucket. All these childish antics do is cost a struggling business money & cause further heartache for other employees that have to straighten out the mess.

For the past week we have had 2 767's & several 18 wheelers bring in baggage from Philly to Charlotte for us to straighten out. Several smaller airline have made baggage only flights in order to get the bags to their destinations. This goes to show that some of us really like what we do...we want to keep the airline afloat.....we want to provide the customer the best service we can & it is very unfortunate that the actions of a few will impact 27,000 employees in such an adverse manner.

Nobody will volunteer in Philly....the union is like a mafia there.....cross them & you might disappear. The best option for the company at this point would be to shut down operations there completely other than a few express flights to get folks from there to Charlotte. This would be a great morale boost for those of us watching our jobs go down the drain because of a few disgruntled a$$hats.

We recently had a union vote for the express side. We had the opportunity to vote one in. Thank goodness it didn't happen.

/really pissed off at Philly right now
//my dog wants to eat a union a$$hat
 
2004-12-30 02:47:35 AM
2004-12-29 09:52:43 PM IamGod2u


I don't know (or care) where you live, but in RI, the median average income for a teacher is $65,000


What is "average median"? There is either an "average" (mean) or "median". Maybe if your high school statistics teacher would have been paid more, he could have tought you better.

And in RI, the median expected salary is 45k for elementary, 47k for High School.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?narrowcod e=ED01&jobcode=ED03000010&metrocode=139&metro=Providence&state=Rhode%20Island& geo=Providence,%20Rhode%20Island&jobtitle=Teacher%20Elementary%20School&narrow desc=Education
 
2004-12-30 02:50:22 AM
couldn't agree more with ya mojo... philly is one bad town. was almost killed by a crew of union thugs at the convention center when our company tried to plug in some externals at our booth. they wanted to bill us out in the hundreds to plug in a couple of lights/computers. they had no ground to stand on, but still attempted to extort us and harass us all week long. total dix.

with that said, it sure is sad that these a-wipes are going to kill UAIR mainline service with this b.s.
 
2004-12-30 02:53:04 AM
Sorry, it's 46k, and 48k. Still a far cry from the 65K you claim, IamGod2u


clicky
 
2004-12-30 05:55:06 AM
shipud: Sorry, it's 46k, and 48k. Still a far cry from the 65K you claim, IamGod2u

Sorry yourself, shipud. The site you are using as "evidence" states: "This basic report is based on broad national data" ... how does that accurately reflect RI teachers?

That data is also based on information that was what was reported to that website (not necessarily comprehensive, nor accurate) based on yearly salaries and not including the many hours of mandated professional development, coaching, advising, class coverage and other forms of "overtime" pay that all teachers get in addition to their yearly salaries. These forms of compensation are frequently in excess of $20,000 or more.

In my district, teachers get $34 an hour to do ANYTHING after 2:05 in the afternoon, or to cover a 45-minute class during the day. Many teachers do two coverages a day. That adds up.

Maybe you should look at payrolls for your district before you make assumptions. As I am an insider, I know the reality, not what some generalized website tels me.
 
2004-12-30 05:59:25 AM
BillCosby:

Nurses, doctors, psychologists (highly skilled profession)
use unions because they care about their patients and the quality of care they are providing. They want a voice in setting and maintaining the standards of their professions rather than HMOS, insurance companies and the government.


When was the last doctor strike? Or the last time that psychologists called in sick over a holiday? Give me a break.
 
2004-12-30 06:10:45 AM
BillCosby:

Supply and Demand has nothing to do with it. Nor does the fact that you are highly skilled.

I am very well compensated, treated well, valued as an employee and have job security because I have valuable skills that are not common in my "industry."

I don't need a union because I am valuable. I don't have a job that a 17-year old dropout can do. I am a good worker, who comes to work every day and I do my job well. I don't need a union to "protect" me.

I am glad that there are still labor unions, however, because I would feel bad if the mafia could not find easy places to put criminals in no-work jobs after they get out of jail.

I think supporting organized crime by using laborer's pension money to buy huge amounts of drugs and get them out on the street is one of the long standing traditions that makes this country great.

Long live the union. Good for all.
 
2004-12-30 08:18:42 AM
IamGod2u

youre a total farking moron, i cant wait for your ass to get fired because they found someone who will do your job cheaper and your ass is stuck unemployed crying about "why wasnt there anyone there to help me?!" Tool.
 
2004-12-30 09:19:34 AM
Billy the Kidd

The mistake you are demonstrating here is that you are showing concern over whatever may happen to IamGod2u.

People who think like IamGod2u frankly don't give a damn about anyone but themselves and their unfortunate immediate relatives. That is the way it is.

But yes, moronity is an unfortunate trait in their ilk.
 
2004-12-30 09:27:12 AM
svejker_14: But yes, moronity is an unfortunate trait in their ilk.

Moronity? Perhaps a little education might make you a little more marketable.

Billy the Kidd:

i cant wait for your ass to get fired because they found someone who will do your job cheaper

Good luck. As I said, supply and demand.

My job requires a doctorate and experience as well as demonstrated ability to communicate, critically think, problem solve and lead people in change.

We don't come cheaply.
 
2004-12-30 10:04:47 AM
I submitted this with a much funnier headline.
 
2004-12-30 10:14:42 AM
No way. I like my company and love my job, but I don't work for free. I will consider working for free the day after my CEO donates his annual salary. Will never happen... He needs the money less than I do, so why should I work for free??? I won't, and you shouldn't either.

/if you say "Yes", will it ENCOURAGE them to ask again or DISCOURAGE them???
 
2004-12-30 11:48:00 AM
Hey Fortitude,

Society makes a bargain with corporations, society agrees to limit liability in order to reduce risk so that the corporation will provide certain benefits to the society. If the corporations aren't providing the benefits then they shouldn't receive the limited liability. So if they want to move to another country that is willing to undercut the tax requirements why should the US let their products in without import duties? Unbridled free markets have proved a freaking disaster time and time again. Competition is not always the best ways to do things. Cooperation and competition together usually provide the best outcomes for all involved. Only people who always think they're going to be the winner don't see that.
 
2004-12-30 12:03:46 PM
Ah, free markets and capitalism = always good.
Socialism = always bad.

.....so who's going to save your house from burning down again?
 
2004-12-30 12:32:23 PM
Jailing is a wee bit different than random beatings of union workers, don't you think?

Best line in the thread... Hands down...

/it's not like they were beaten and raped in jail! well... maybe a little...
 
2004-12-30 03:29:53 PM
This is why unions are still needed.

ed whiteacre.
 
2004-12-30 03:38:38 PM
I'm glad that IamGod2u is doing well, but I'd probably advise him/her/it to dial the Hubris back a couple of notches if we were old friends. Seems a little like tempting the fates, eh???

Not to take anything away from your impressive accomplishments, but I learned the hard way that everyone can be replaced. I was irreplacable once too, and I found out that (counter-intuitively) not everyone values Quality over Quantity. If they can get someone to half-ass your job for 1/3 of the price, that precious Supply v. Demand that keeps you warm at night will bite you squah in thuh NUTZ.

/just sayin

//curious what you do that gives such supreme confidence
 
2004-12-30 04:07:49 PM
2004-12-29 12:40:24 PM EatHam [TotalFark]

I'm sorry, but the skill requirements to be an RN or computer programmer is not comparable to the skill requirements to be a teacher.
---------
Let's see you stand in front of 30 6th graders and keep their undivided attention 5 days a week from the time you start to the time you finish.

Oh, and you only get a half hour for lunch that you'll more than likely work through.
 
2004-12-30 04:50:01 PM
Bad_Mojo: Leave it to a few Bolshevik Yankees to steal Christmas from PAYING customers.

As a frequent flyer out of CLT, I can only imagine that things were better when it was Piedmont and not USAir - I can't imagine it being worse.

/Workers of the World - UNTIE!!!
 
2005-01-02 09:39:13 AM
culturemock
You're a moron. A real one this time.

The Confederacy had reached the battlefield earlier than the Union. If they had held Little Round Top and Big Round Top, they would have waltzed over the Union.
After they managed to squander the high-ground advantage, they might as well have spent their time fapping instead of trying to win something that even a toddler would see was going to end up in a rout.
 
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