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(BBC)   Permafrost in Arctic regions becoming neither permanent nor frost   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 996
    More: Scary  
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21344 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2004 at 4:53 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-29 07:06:45 AM  
*sigh* Don't the authors know that if they want to engage in GW fear-mongering, they should do it in August? I mean, just because they think critically doesn't mean the readers do.
 
2004-12-29 07:06:57 AM  
Sloth_DC:

No, just an idiot - we should not sign a global anti-pollution treaty that exempts the worst polluters.

So no solution is better than a flawed solution?
 
2004-12-29 07:08:04 AM  
Learn to swim! Learn to swim!
 
2004-12-29 07:09:40 AM  
itzhak: So no solution is better than a flawed solution?

Sometimes, yes. Giving official sanction to the ruinous environmental policies of the most destructive countries is worse than doing nothing, and hinders the possibility of engaging them in real reform treaties.
 
2004-12-29 07:11:50 AM  
SlothDC:

Ok I've read all three articles now (safely wasting productive time at work). I still don't trust that coalition or it's goals, but there's some interesting stuff in there, I grant you.
 
2004-12-29 07:12:48 AM  
Here to "The Day After Tomarrow" :)
 
2004-12-29 07:13:37 AM  
21-7-b

I knew the structure of the Kyoto Protocol BEFORE Limbaugh brought it up.

I actually READ the thing when it was released, because its part of my job.

Your problem is, you assume I get my info from his show when my comments on a news story echo his.

What you DON'T get to observe, is my co-workers coming to me on a weekly basis, astounded that my opinions on any given subject are usually echoed by Rush later on in the week when he gets around to talking about them.

A news story pops up, I give my opinion, and two days later, Rush says the same thing.

I didn't get my opinion from Rush, but we do agree on alot.

Great minds think alike.

Idiots call that "being a sheep".

Here's a link to the environMENTAList moneymaker:

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/convkp/kpeng.html


READ....it.

especially the first sentence of Article 3, paragraph 1.

Then, go to ebay and buy a USED brain...

(by the way, the United States was the LAST country to pull out of the Kyoto agreement, because of the environMENTAList retards. Every other country involved gave up long before we did, so saying we are a bunch of "environmentally insensitive jerks", is assinine, and ignorant.)
 
2004-12-29 07:15:08 AM  
Did that guy just call Rush Limbaugh a "great mind"?
 
2004-12-29 07:15:35 AM  
Mike_71,

How does being a wedding DJ require you to read the Kyoto Protocal?
 
2004-12-29 07:15:58 AM  
Mercutio74

"However, it is possible for us to screw with the environment enough to knock the global climate just outside of the range where human life (outside of some sort of sealed building) would be sustainable."

OK, I'll give you the chance to defend your opinion:

WHAT "evidence" do you have that it IS possible?
 
2004-12-29 07:16:56 AM  
Mike_71

this would be your job as a dj would it? or your one as a preacher? which employment is this that your wonderful mind has conjured up today?
 
2004-12-29 07:17:25 AM  
Mercutio74:

Ok I've read all three articles now (safely wasting productive time at work). I still don't trust that coalition or it's goals, but there's some interesting stuff in there, I grant you.

Want the really scary part? The temperature is fairly irrelevant on a number of levels - I mean, hell, even the global warming peeps are saying global temperatures have risen about .5 C over the last century, which is well within historical limits. The real issue is the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, and there's a fair amount of evidence that increased carbon levels drive tectonic activity, which serves to sink carbon into the crust. What's this mean? Even without a global warming scenario, elevated levels of carbon dioxide and other carbonic compounds in the atmosphere could well lead to more (and more destructive) earthquakes, eruptions, and continental drift.
 
2004-12-29 07:17:55 AM  
CaptainBeefheart

sorry man. you're just too quick for me
 
2004-12-29 07:18:16 AM  
"WHAT "evidence" do you have that it IS possible?"

Who needs evidence when you've got faith? Spin on that one, you dumb fothermucker.
 
2004-12-29 07:19:07 AM  
dsmo

all things are relative
 
2004-12-29 07:21:13 AM  
21-7-b,

It was too easy to jump all over that shiat! I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
 
2004-12-29 07:21:48 AM  
Ice Age
Ice Age
Ice Age
Welcome to the Ice Age
 
2004-12-29 07:22:00 AM  
StraitAces, Gunther

Yes, I can see it now. In the 2008 presidential debates...

Dems: A vote for me is a vote for a cooler globe.
Reps: We'll crank up the earth's thermostat until all the sinners burn as chaff.


Side note:
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't an extremely violent volcanic eruption alter the global atmosphere much more than generations and generations of people putting all their effort into reducing/increasing global warming?

Not that it is some sort of excuse to hide behind or anything.

Mercutio74
I think derferman was werefing to Waterworld, not The Day After Tomorrow.

Don't worry about this global warming thing. The entire northern hemisphere will eventually become the new polar ice cap and things will bounce back. I would be more worried about when the core of the earth stops spinning. We can all do our part by only walking in the direction the core is currently spinning. If we go against the grain we are only helping the slowdown process.
 
2004-12-29 07:23:51 AM  
One.. two.. three..

HOORAY!

For continued planetary evolution, and possibly proof of natural selection in a slightly more tropical and aqueous environment!

We are almost definitely doomed to face another ice age. Now we'll be able to hopefully document the extent of injuries we can inflict on the planet before it completely resets itself again. It's like troubleshooting, only you bleeding-hearts will call it "genocide" or possibly even "homosapiencide." I'm sure whatever word you choose will reverberate nicely on the smooth glacial walls that will eventually engulf our entire civilization. But that word will also fade away as the ice melts into another dawn of humanity, whereupon we shall recommence self-annihilation with ardent zeal.

If we're anything, it's stupid and adaptable. Bring it on.

/("but not unnecessarily," says the liberal side)
 
2004-12-29 07:25:47 AM  
Mike71:

Well, even just looking at how smoggy summers have become here in Toronto, I think it's a simple extrapolation that if industry and cars were allowed to billow chemicals usually not found in the atomosphere at those levels unregulated for decades, eventually conditions would become unliveable. Luckily though there is finally a push to try to keep the air a little cleaner. That being said, summers are already pretty bad for elderly people and people with respiratory disorders.

Unfortunately, the only way to prove that this can occur is to actually have all or parts of the world to become so polluted that healthy people actually die directly from exposure to the air they breathe or die in a greenhouse gas climate-shift related event. And, even if this did occur on a limited scale, I'm sure that people who disagree with the theory will need wider scale deaths to fully be convinced that these deaths are, in fact, related to pollution of the environment.

Even though I have a great respect for the scientific process, this is an experiment I'd rather not see run.
 
2004-12-29 07:26:45 AM  
Sloth_DC

the guy on the tv has just mentioned collapse of the ice shelf with reference to antarctica and global warming? any idea what that's all about?
 
2004-12-29 07:27:00 AM  
*giggles*

"I didn't get my opinion from Rush, but we do agree on alot.

Great minds think alike."

*giggles again*

I swear, we should make a book with his best quotes...

and yes, mike, which part of your dj job requires you to read it? because last wedding I went, the dj sure wasn't that politically charged
 
2004-12-29 07:28:18 AM  
CaptainBeefheart

"Mike_71,

How does being a wedding DJ require you to read the Kyoto Protocal?"

That's a fair question, but an uninformed one.

I do weddings for fun now.

My full-time gig is a voice-over artist. I do voice work for documentaries, corporate training videos, and radio and tv ads.

The next time you drive through Washington D.C. and hear a commercial for the Washington Times, you'll be hearing my voice.

This means I read alot of "stuff", especially on a 2 hour flight to Houston to lay down tracks for a corporate voicemail service.

By doing documentaries, I learn alot by reading alot, and about all kinds of things.
 
2004-12-29 07:29:28 AM  
fcuk me. now he's shown a graph of co2 levels against temperature over the last million years - and the current co2 levels

he is now using the word terrifying

it is

i'll find the graph
 
2004-12-29 07:30:35 AM  
Sloth_DC:

Sometimes, yes. Giving official sanction to the ruinous environmental policies of the most destructive countries is worse than doing nothing, and hinders the possibility of engaging them in real reform treaties.

Right now only industrial nations are required to lower their pollution in the kyoto protocol (which takes effect from 2005 to 2012), but people are working on a second draft so that India and China will be included after 2012. The developing countries who are only "recommended" to lower their pollution had to promise to do their best to not follow the path of the industrial nations (hey, it's not worth much, but better than nothing). The US, however, have stated that they do not intend to lower their pollution at all.
 
2004-12-29 07:30:36 AM  
Great minds think alike.

Idiots call that "being a sheep".


Great minds innovate, and frequently deviate from popular opinion. Common minds think alike.

That like-minded commune of unwashed hippies -- are theirs great minds? The coffee-house hipster regulars who write poetry about The Man and The Pain You Can't Know -- are theirs great minds? The able-bodied poor who refuse to work -- are theirs great minds?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2004-12-29 07:33:18 AM  
There's a limit to the available fissile material.

Not really. Even limiting ourselves to uranium we have fuel for long past any reasonable planning period.

Of the others, SPS won't happen until current space access policies have been lifted for a few decades and may not ever happen, and biomass is inefficient, indirect solar and could be harmful if carbon that would have been buried is burned intead.

5. Engage China and Russia in treaties which actually limit their pollution.

Particulate pollution helps slightly by cooling the air. It's carbon dioxide that counts, and carbon dioxide emissions are closely linked to energy use.
 
2004-12-29 07:34:33 AM  
LOL, I can just picture it! Some poor schlub, his first day on the job, listening to Mike_71 extoll the virtues of being part of the KFC team.
 
2004-12-29 07:35:12 AM  
Mercutio74

"Well, even just looking at how smoggy summers have become here in Toronto, I think it's a simple extrapolation that if industry and cars were allowed to billow chemicals usually not found in the atomosphere at those levels unregulated for decades, eventually conditions would become unliveable. Luckily though there is finally a push to try to keep the air a little cleaner. That being said, summers are already pretty bad for elderly people and people with respiratory disorders."

Just a quick question, can you compare smog levels of today with those of say, 50 years ago, and back up your assumption that your summers have "become smoggy"?

You're making a "simple extrapolation", based on an assumption.

How hard was it for elderly people to breath the air, say, 100 years ago?

I'M going to assume that it was just as hard as it is today, BECAUSE THEY ARE "OLD", and "old" people have a hard time doing ANYTHING.
 
2004-12-29 07:35:17 AM  
Mike_71

you've stated before your full-time job brings in under 25k, are you sure you're not being a little economical with the truth now
 
2004-12-29 07:43:09 AM  
21-7-b

Mike_71

you've stated before your full-time job brings in under 25k, are you sure you're not being a little economical with the truth now"

Yeah, it did...TWO YEARS AGO! When I made the career move!

This year, I'M STILL ADDING IT UP!

I'm looking at around $45,000 or so. My wife is at $70,000, and an all-expense paid trip to Florida, compliments of the furniture company she works for, because she kickin' ass!

You got nuthin' dude! You don't pay attention, and you have nothing positive to say.

Go pop a couple of prozacs.
 
2004-12-29 07:44:13 AM  
Mike_71


The next time you drive through Washington D.C. and hear a commercial for the Washington Times, you'll be hearing my voice.

What he says must be true, I mean look at the journalistic beacon of a newspaper that he works for. (/sarcastic)
 
2004-12-29 07:45:42 AM  
CaptainBeefheart

"LOL, I can just picture it! Some poor schlub, his first day on the job, listening to Mike_71 extoll the virtues of being part of the KFC team."

HEE HEE heeee....

See posts below to find out what I actually do for a living, before you make assumptions.

(But I do love KFC!)
 
2004-12-29 07:45:52 AM  
Apply the smog in Toronto thing to cities such as Los Angeles and Phoenix. Did they have the smog problems a few decades ago?

We are changing the environment. It's pretty obvious. Only thing we don't know is how much we are doing.
 
2004-12-29 07:46:08 AM  
"Yes Mr. President, you were absolutely correct when you stated there was not yet enough evidence to support global warming" stated yes woman, Dr. Rice.

/not an actual quote but I image it went something like that.
 
2004-12-29 07:46:14 AM  
Drugs? Aahhhhhh you mean he should become a Limbaugh?
Thats not a nice thing to wish!
 
2004-12-29 07:46:20 AM  
Mike_71

this was 6 months ago
 
2004-12-29 07:46:40 AM  

Take glass, fill it to the very top with ice, then fill it to the lip with water. Wait a couple of hours and come back. Is your countertop all wet from the melting ice causing the glass to overflow? Discuss.


Now, repeat, but put ice on a butcher block on your countertop instead to simulate the effects of ice melting in Antarctica. Compare and contrast the differences between ice floating in water in the arctic ocean at the north pole and ice sitting on a continental shelf at the south pole.

 
2004-12-29 07:49:42 AM  
dsmo

"What he says must be true, I mean look at the journalistic beacon of a newspaper that he works for. (/sarcastic)"

How old are you?

12?

I DON'T WORK FOR THE TIMES! I JUST VOICE THEIR TV AND RADIO ADS!

I do it for alot of companies, like Sprint, The Olive Garden, and Johnson and Johnson.

I do FREELANCE VOICE WORK. The Washington Times just happens to be a client.

YOU...don't listen.
 
2004-12-29 07:49:57 AM  
Mike_71:

Well, you're the one who threw out a challenge to me to prove something that even on a professional level is done purely through extrapolation of data plugged into climate models. I have neither the expertise nor the machinery available fore that. And even if I did, it's not something that could be proved because it hasn't happened yet. In fact, a severe climate shift is something that scientists studying it (even from opposing viewpoints) would rather not have happen.

And here's what I found in relation to what I was talking about things getting smoggier as of late in Toronto.

http://www.oma.org/phealth/report/airq001.pdf

Just a quick google got me that one. But regardless of measurements and data, you can feel the smogginess in the summer here. It was never like this when I was in Toronto in the summer when I was a kid. You have to think it's a pretty signifigant drop in air quality when it's detectable just by human qualitative judgments. You don't need sensitive machinery to know when a smog warning is issued here, just step outside in mid morning and you'll know.
 
2004-12-29 07:51:16 AM  
Mike_71
My full-time gig is a voice-over artist. I do voice work for documentaries, corporate training videos, and radio and tv ads.

The next time you drive through Washington D.C. and hear a commercial for the Washington Times, you'll be hearing my voice.


Yeah, we all know that to become a voice-over artist you need years of studies, at least 3 PhDs and an IQ surpassing Einstein and Hawkins together.
Thats why I see so many voice-over artists in labs and research conferences giving the main speeches.
YOU GUYS ROCK!

/really
//really really!
/// ok, maybe not that much :/
 
2004-12-29 07:53:01 AM  
21-7-b:

the guy on the tv has just mentioned collapse of the ice shelf with reference to antarctica and global warming? any idea what that's all about?

Yeah - it's collapsing in places from a combination of factors, one of which is increased load from thickening ice. The consequences aren't entirely clear, but it's been theorized that this may be one of the triggering factors for an ice age.
 
2004-12-29 07:54:25 AM  
21-7-b

"this was 6 months ago"

And AT THAT TIME, I was sittin' on $25,000.

Since then, all the hours of stuffing my demo packages full of sample cds, and sending them out to talent and ad agencies, has paid off.

I don't have any particular employer that's paying me a flat salary per year.

I'm my own boss, and my client list is growing.

Who knows how much I'll have made by the end of this year.

It's called "freelance". My income is only limited by my ambition.

What part of this don't you get?
 
2004-12-29 07:55:20 AM  
Mike:

There's enough VO work in Washington to keep you employed full-time? As a free-lancer? I'm a free lance assistant editor and I'm extremely lucky when I can find 10 months of work out of the year. Usually I'm between 6-9 months. And post production goes on a lot longer than ADR and VO sessions.

Even assuming that you're working the most hours out of any VO guy there, that's an amazing amount of opportunity. I doubt there's many guys in any of the major media cities in North America that say they do the same.
 
2004-12-29 07:55:56 AM  
Mike_71


The next time you drive through Washington D.C. and hear a commercial for the Washington Times, you'll be hearing my voice.

This means I read alot of "stuff", especially on a 2 hour flight to Houston to lay down tracks for a corporate voicemail service.


Well, if a lot of this "stuff" is published by the Washington Times, I can excuse you for being such a moran. The Washington Times is nothing more than a cheerleader for the Republican party.
 
2004-12-29 07:56:23 AM  
So with the exception of Mercutio74, everyone is attacking Mike_71 instead of rebutting his points.......sounds like people criticizing Michael Moore and his work because he is fat.

you guys are the sheep
 
2004-12-29 07:57:01 AM  
Mike_71,

Please explain to me, the ins and outs of managing an Olive Garden.
 
2004-12-29 07:59:00 AM  
johnny_vegas:

So with the exception of Mercutio74, everyone is attacking Mike_71 instead of rebutting his points

No, some of us are ignoring him. The signal to noise ratio is way too low to worry about anything else.
 
2004-12-29 07:59:38 AM  
CaptainBeefheart

Anyone can make up bullshiat claims. There is only so much you can do to debunk these claims. If the person continues to insist he is correct and then gets caught up in his own bs, this is what happens.
 
2004-12-29 07:59:59 AM  
Is it sad that when I read "permafrost", I immediately thought of everquest?
 
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