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(Yahoo)   Archeologists may have discovered clay jars that Jesus used to turn water into wine; other team of scientists still looking for Santa's workshop and Easter Bunny's lair   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
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16505 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2004 at 10:42 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-21 11:05:42 PM  
Why do you all hate America Christmas and Jesus?
[image from webpages.charter.net too old to be available]
 
2004-12-21 11:05:44 PM  
DandamanFL:

...Sippin on Jesus Juice
Laid back.
With my mind on my money
and my money on my mind"
 
2004-12-21 11:06:12 PM  
Great headline, and I can truly say LOL.
 
2004-12-21 11:06:30 PM  
Why can't people just get over the need to belive in such fairy tales? It makes them so susceptible to manipulation by those who would profit from their blind faith. People are so dumb.
/lost faith in the future of humanity long ago
//wishes he could join the ranks of the 700 club and preach all the way to the bank
 
2004-12-21 11:06:33 PM  
Anybody that believes this, you should give me a call.

I have a bridge to sell you.
 
2004-12-21 11:07:26 PM  
Clay pots found in an area where a miracle might have taken place 2000 years ago, and you skeptics need more proof!!!???

/new to sarcasm
 
2004-12-21 11:07:57 PM  
This thread would be huge if everybody hadn't already gone to bed.
 
2004-12-21 11:09:13 PM  
But did they find any toast?
 
2004-12-21 11:10:41 PM  
Saucy English Kn-ig-ht

I'll remember the image you posted the next time I frequent a newsgroup...

/Sarcasm
 
2004-12-21 11:10:51 PM  
freakay You cant deny that Jesus existed any more than you can deny that any other historical figure existed.

There isn't any mention of Jesus in an historical source outside the Bible. So yes, you can deny that he existed.
 
2004-12-21 11:11:50 PM  
It should be obvious that Jesus existed, or there wouldn't have been so much contortionism after he died to turn his mortal life into a mythology and code, and fitting Old Testament prophecies into his mundane existence. Very early Christianity was an awkward time, when a bunch of people were clearly clustered around "someone" and his ideas, and spent a lot of time trying to figure out what their failure "really meant."

If Jesus didn't exist, no one would have spent the time trying to reconcile all these things all of a sudden, branching off into different sects and all that. There has to be seed for a movement to start before it degenerates into codification and argument. The way they're presented and defended, and how they don't "quite" fit the expectation of messianic Jews is evidence that he existed. At least, no one at any point doubted that he did. They were too busy fighting over what it actually meant, and what to do next.
 
2004-12-21 11:12:57 PM  
freakay You cant deny that Jesus existed any more than you can deny that any other historical figure existed.

There isn't any mention of Jesus in an historical source outside the Bible. So yes, you can deny that he existed.

I can deny anything. Just try me.


/the internet doesn't exist
 
2004-12-21 11:13:10 PM  
There isn't any mention of Jesus in an historical source outside the Bible. So yes, you can deny that he existed.

You worded that poorly, and as such the statement is demonstratably false. There are a whole hell of a lot of historical references outside of the Bible that mention Jesus. I think that you meant to qualify that by stating that there are no contemporary accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible (and there's little reason to believe that the books of the Bible that mention him were written at the time of his alleged existence on earth).
 
2004-12-21 11:15:21 PM  
Did they also find the sack that contained the flour that Judas wanted turned into cocaine?
 
2004-12-21 11:15:36 PM  
nytyper
Wrong!
 
2004-12-21 11:16:34 PM  
nytyper:

There isn't any mention of Jesus in an historical source outside the Bible. So yes, you can deny that he existed.


Tell that to Tacitus.
 
2004-12-21 11:17:32 PM  
I wish someone would filter "Bevets" so it'd say "I'm not original in the least and wet the bed."
 
2004-12-21 11:17:47 PM  
Religion used to have a much more important place - to describe the world. From that point of view religion is now rendered irrelevant by science.

As a moral story (and ALL religions are just that - STORIES) it has a place. Don't kill, don't steal, don't be a jerk.

I just wish people would appreciate the principle and stop trying to make these STORIES into FACTS. They aren't. They are books of social rules, told in story form to make them less frickin boring, or dare I say, preachy.

They just take it too far.

This is like my most longestest post ever.
 
2004-12-21 11:17:55 PM  
Here's something I just thought of that bothers me. Jesus's miracles are all well and dandy, if they happened. However, not one of those miracles has the potential to echo through time. Here's what I mean: all the people that saw Jesus turn water into wine got conclusive proof that he was the son of God. However, anyone who wasn't there just has to take their word for it. It's not really fair that some people get absolute proof and others just sort of have to believe them, especially when the witnesses are usually who want to believe. If I were divine, and God willing some day I will be, my miracles would be the kind that people would be able to know about for years. I'd extend my hand and carve my image in the ground with fire, or something spectacular like that. I would raise a nation around myself using the dead as soldiers. I'd collect all the leaders in the world and make them watch as I flew into the sky. Lightning would then rain down all around the world leaving specific marks at every place it struck. I would also build two identical towers on opposite sides of the world in countries that have cultures that don't know about eachother. This would leave a lasting impression. So some guy turned water into wine 2000 years ago... sure he did.
 
2004-12-21 11:18:20 PM  
If that one guy can post a picture of the kool-aid guy then I get to post this really gay comic book cover I found...

[image from webpages.charter.net too old to be available]
 
2004-12-21 11:19:54 PM  
What if the clay jars were used to hold clay, clay which was used to make other jars that would hold clay themselves.

Can you handle THAT?
 
2004-12-21 11:22:25 PM  
I can't say that I like the headline. My problem is that it compares real world and make-believe. Jesus existed. Santa Clause and Easter Bunny do not.

You can search out places where Jesus had been. No matter how hard you try, nay, how hard you belive, you will not find a workshop or bunny hole for magical beings.

And nowhere in the article does it say that they think that they've found proof of miracles. It just says that they may have found a site referred to in the bible.

As much as I dislike fundies, I think I hate arrognat athiests even more.
 
2004-12-21 11:22:50 PM  
so wait, if jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine, doesn't that mean that jesus was an alcoholic?

and hence, how come "good christians" shouldn't drink? screw that, i'm gonna turn christian and drink lots of wine for the Lord.
 
2004-12-21 11:23:54 PM  
I'll put in a bid on ebay to buy them.. haha.

- paul -
 
2004-12-21 11:24:30 PM  
maj.heath
christians vs. intelligent people in 3...2...1...

Intelligent post?
 
2004-12-21 11:25:22 PM  
Haraksha, 11:17 pm, is that all really necessary? It seems rather trite.
 
2004-12-21 11:26:45 PM  
Why does this crap always magically appear in the public eye right during Christmas and Easter, don't these psuedo-scientists work at other times of the year?
 
2004-12-21 11:26:52 PM  
I don't understand something ... most hard line 'intelligent' christians put absolutely no stock in Archeological findings and methods ... so in order to accept anything which comes from this, 'they' would have to put faith into a discipline which also works to completely invalidate much of the bible. I'm NOT trolling ... I'm really curious as to how any thinking person could reconcile these things.
 
2004-12-21 11:26:55 PM  
Philippe..
Yeah all brewmasters and people who work at wineries are alcoholics.
 
2004-12-21 11:28:06 PM  
I wonder why people laugh at Christians, and put them down as nuts and believers in a fairy tale, but are quick to defend muslims and other religions if their religous beliefs are attacked.Its as if it is okay to have a faith, as long as it isn't the Christian faith.Then again, from the time the first person read the Bible, they knew it was coming...it's in the book.

/Remember, death is dark, and hell is hot.
 
2004-12-21 11:28:23 PM  
An interesting analysis of accounts of the historical Jesus here.
 
2004-12-21 11:28:48 PM  
nytyper: There isn't any mention of Jesus in an historical source outside the Bible. So yes, you can deny that he existed.

Actually, you're incorrect. Josephus, who came not long after, records not only the life of Jesus but the life of James. Although the one-paragraph claim to divinity is (IMHO) an interpolation by later monks due to a difference in style, the rest of the information is in Josephus' normal style. When Josephus wrote, many of the people Jesus interacted with were still alive.

Also, Pliny wrote to the Caesar-of-the-moment asking for instructions regarding the prototypical Christians. This, too, was not long after Jesus' death.
 
2004-12-21 11:29:05 PM  
I agree with Brodan. Just stories, not facts. Good stories though... definitely worth hearing (along with others)
 
2004-12-21 11:29:24 PM  
Tell that to Tacitus.

Ah,The Annals make their annual appearance.

Can I get a Hymen,my brothers?
 
2004-12-21 11:29:30 PM  
Well I believe in God and Jesus. I really dont care if you (plural) believe or not, taint none of my business.
I have no thoughts of preaching or trying to counter any of these atheist arguments.
There's a reason it's called a belief.

Now I'm gonna go smoke a blunt and masturbate while looking at porn.
 
2004-12-21 11:29:57 PM  
Dosen't everybody hate pants?
 
2004-12-21 11:30:08 PM  
jesus is the reason for the treason.
 
2004-12-21 11:30:34 PM  
Whatever calms your terror of the uncertainty and ultimate meaninglessness of life.
 
2004-12-21 11:33:43 PM  
Just wait until they find the lambskin packets He kept the Kool-Aid mix in.
 
2004-12-21 11:33:49 PM  
snoringtoad

I'm a brewmaster, and I'm not an alkie.
 
2004-12-21 11:34:37 PM  
God - Made up by humans to control the masses. Violates his own laws (adultry, covet neighbor's wife) in order to produce his son, whom he allowed to die on a cross (child abuse), and was one of the first to commit Genocide (40/40 rain, floods ensue).

And you people willingly follow the highest criminal, according to his own laws?

Happy to be stupid sheep, aren't you...

Jesus - Pronounced Hey-SOOS, the guy that makes pizza on Front Street in Philipsburg, PA.

/not going to hell, just going to die, get buried, and the world will carry on until it hurtles into the sun...
 
2004-12-21 11:36:44 PM  
Philippe

so wait, if jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine, doesn't that mean that jesus was an alcoholic?

No, it means he drank wine. Are all wine drinkers alcoholic?

and hence, how come "good christians" shouldn't drink? screw that, i'm gonna turn christian and drink lots of wine for the Lord.

Who said that? Lots of Christians drink, most of the branches allow it, Catholics use it in their traditions. Some of the ultra fundies frown on it but they are a small minority (even if they are vocal). The Bible says nothing about not drinking, though it does say "don't become intoxocated" and there are other verses which basically say all things are good in moderation.

Also in Jesus's time there were no water purifiers so people tended to drink wine as it was safer.

If you're going to troll and flame, at least try to apply some logic and facts to it.
 
2004-12-21 11:37:21 PM  
Albert Frankenstein:

Jesus was an alien
Flying through space
And God was an astronaut, who said "boy I like your face"
So the story began



Holy crap Albert Frank!! How in the world have you heard of Tabitha's Secret?!?! Good Lord, nobody knows of them...
 
2004-12-21 11:39:16 PM  
I wonder why people laugh at Christians, and put them down as nuts and believers in a fairy tale, but are quick to defend muslims and other religions if their religous beliefs are attacked.Its as if it is okay to have a faith, as long as it isn't the Christian faith.Then again, from the time the first person read the Bible, they knew it was coming...it's in the book.

I would say that you're just being a bit paranoid and self-important. To most non-fundies a fundy is a fundy is a fundy no matter the religion.
 
2004-12-21 11:39:50 PM  
freakay:

You cant deny that Jesus existed any more than you can deny that any other historical figure existed. The real question is whether he was who he said he was.

Actually the real question is whether he was what they say he was.
 
2004-12-21 11:40:23 PM  
I pissed in a jar today, and I am hoping to turn that into a job.
 
SRV
2004-12-21 11:40:32 PM  
nice tag line...have fun burning in hell
 
2004-12-21 11:42:53 PM  
I wonder why those without faith in God feel a superiority over those who do.

They call it belief in a fairy-tail or myth when there is no explaination for the creation of the matter in the universe or the initial energy which set it in motion.

What happened before the big bang? What happened before that? From where did the matter originate?

Nobody knows, and until those question are answered, "a higher power" is as good an answer as anything else.
 
2004-12-21 11:42:55 PM  
2004-12-21 11:34:37 PM TemperedEdge


"God - Made up by humans to control the masses. Violates his own laws (adultry, covet neighbor's wife) in order to produce his son, whom he allowed to die on a cross (child abuse), and was one of the first to commit Genocide (40/40 rain, floods ensue)."

If you believe this than why dont you believe everything else in the Bible?
 
2004-12-21 11:43:15 PM  
I second that WorldCitizen
 
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