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(Lexington Herald Leader)   Teen sues school board after she was denied entry to prom over Confederate flag dress. Also says someone kept playing Dukes of Hazard music when she jumped into her orange car through the window   ( kentucky.com) divider line
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17467 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2004 at 10:07 AM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-20 07:57:31 PM  
Oh, this is rich -- mods, please greenlight this one...
 
2004-12-20 07:57:49 PM  
Some Southerners will never cease to amaze me. On one hand, they are voting Republican, saying that Democrats are unpatriotic and hate their country for questioning the moral leadership of the president (see: Max Cleland). The same patriotic Southerners say that John Walker Lindh was a huge traitor for fighting against his countrymen, and anyone who dares fight against the United States should be dealt with accordingly.

But then on the other hand, they glorify Robert E. Lee and the rebel army, who killed more American soldiers than almost any army. They not only committed treason, but they fought uniformed United States soldiers in an attempt to overthrow the governmet, something I would imagine defines treason. But instead of hating on them, they want to glorify these treasonous actions by touting confederate flags-- a flag which was born out of treason.

/no hate for the South... I'm just sayin'.
 
2004-12-20 08:05:38 PM  
Tarrant I don't think you have all of the facts straight.
 
2004-12-20 08:17:11 PM  
...in an attempt to overthrow the governmet...

well, no. Not at all. They merely wanted a seperate government, NOT to overthrow the US government. At no point did they ever try to overthrow the US government.
 
2004-12-20 08:19:00 PM  
Robert E Lee was a brilliant general. He served the United States before the war and served the South during it. And he wasn't trying to overthrow the US Government; he was trying to help the south leave the Union. I don't think that constitutes treason, especially on his part.

As for this story, people really get too offended by things like this. I could understand them throwing her out if she came wearing a dress with a swastika on it (Unless she was a Native American whose tribe used the swastika prior to WWII), but for the Confederate flag this is ridiculous.
 
2004-12-20 08:45:51 PM  
Put it like this-- why do we memorialize the confederate flag? It's not a criticism, it's a curiosity.
 
2004-12-20 09:02:16 PM  
Tarrant,

As a Southerner and being left of Karl Marx, I find your arguments inaccurate.

First, until the Civil War, it was never considered if a state could leave the Union. The Union was composed of the independant states. The South did not want to impose thier rule upon the North. They just felt the North was imposing thier rule upon the South. Hence it was never an attempt to overthrow the US government.

The war actually started after the South seceded from the Union. The actual hostilities started when the South fired on Fort Sumter. Whether or not this was legal or the fact that the Union held the fort was legal is all a moot point.

One could argue that the States had the right to secedw from the 10th Amendment. They had the power to create the Union, hence they have the power to dissolve it.

So Robert E. Lee and company were not treasonous traitors. He actually was allowed to teach at Washington University after the war. Most southerners were not considered traitors by the north after the war. Only a few of the politicians were actually jailed.

Obviously, now days, their actions would be considered treason. The states have effectively ceded most of thier rights to the Federal government.

As far as the flag, the stars and bars, I have mixed feelings. It has been appropriated by racists while other symbols and flags of the Confederacy have not. Nevertheless it was originally the battle flag under which many fought and died honorably.
 
2004-12-20 09:11:15 PM  
Stupid

That's what you call total OWNAGE right there, budday.
 
2004-12-20 09:14:31 PM  
stupido:

As far as the flag, the stars and bars, I have mixed feelings. It has been appropriated by racists while other symbols and flags of the Confederacy have not. Nevertheless it was originally the battle flag under which many fought and died honorably.

Again-- this isn't a criticism. However, the Confederate Army took arms against the President of the United States and the United States Army, fought for slavery to be able to continue, and in the process a lot of people lost their lives.

Is it something we should be memorializing with their battle flag, and if yes, why?
 
2004-12-20 09:22:01 PM  
ps-- the first statement, the one being argued about came off much too hastily.

I'm just very disappointed about the beatings Max Cleland took from opponent Saxy Chambliss, especially the ones where they called him "unpatriotic" and pictured him with Osama Bin Laden.
 
2004-12-20 09:25:50 PM  
tarrent84: how come no one picks on Texas? Texans aren't shy about telling you how much Texas kicks ass. Texas, for a while, couldn't make up it's mind about which country they were a part of. I don't think Mexico talks shiat about Texas, even though Texas seceeded. They let it pass. Water under the bridge to them. Just like the rest of the US should let the South pass. I'm a fan of the New South as much as and progressive Southerner, but history and tradition hold fast.

/Texas was also a slave state.
 
2004-12-20 09:36:40 PM  
tarrant84,

Did they actually fight against the president of the US? Remember, many felt the states had a constitutional right to secede. The president by opposing it, they felt, was the one disrepecting the constitution. This was relatively early in our nations history and we were not a cohesive unit then. People did not travel etc.

Most southerners did not fight for the right to keep slaves. Many were opposed to slavery but fought to defend the south. Additionally Lincoln only freed the slaves in the states that seceded and not in Kentucky, Missouri and Maryland. He was willing to keep slavery in order to keep Kentucky in the Union. The Emancipation Proclamation was more of a tool to encourage the slaves to rebel than to give them their freedom.

As far as memorializing the flag, why not. As I said many fought under it and most of the ones that lived accepted the Union afterwards. Lee, the man you call a traitor, actually encouraged reconciliation. Many associate Lee and the Flag together. He lead by example in the war and after. By not memorializing the flag you then treat the south as a conquered enemy and not part of the fabric of our nation and history. This was not just a war between two nations but among ourselves. The war itself could have been avoided by both sides (See Henry Clay for examples). It was not and the blame can't be handed to one side or the other.
 
2004-12-20 09:39:53 PM  
stupido:

As far as memorializing the flag, why not. As I said many fought under it and most of the ones that lived accepted the Union afterwards. Lee, the man you call a traitor, actually encouraged reconciliation. Many associate Lee and the Flag together. He lead by example in the war and after. By not memorializing the flag you then treat the south as a conquered enemy and not part of the fabric of our nation and history. This was not just a war between two nations but among ourselves. The war itself could have been avoided by both sides (See Henry Clay for examples). It was not and the blame can't be handed to one side or the other.

Fair enough.

How would you answer to minorities who are offended by that flag? Do you think their objection is warranted?
 
2004-12-20 09:42:57 PM  
tarrant84 [TotalFark]

ps-- the first statement, the one being argued about came off much too hastily.


No offense taken. I was totally sickened at what was done to Max Cleland too.

The topic of the flag has always interested me. What they teach in our grade schools and hich schools is too simplified.

An interesting flag is the Kentucky State Flag.
 
2004-12-20 09:48:44 PM  
Robert E. Lee was against slavery; he was defending his homeland.

That girl's lawyer's first name is Earl Ray. That's a funny name.

She should have been allowed to wear the dress, racist as she may be.

/Viva la socialisme!
 
2004-12-20 09:53:55 PM  
Tarrant84,

"How would you answer to minorities who are offended by that flag? Do you think their objection is warranted?"

Yes I can see it being offensive to some. Afterall Nathan Bedford Forest founded the KKK and his early followers adopted the battle flag in their midnight raids.

Now I don't fly the flag as I do not want to be assumed a racist. I wish I could as I like flags. I have flags from all the countries I have visted. Just a handfull (note to self, buy Mexican flag). I undestand that it would be hurtful to some. So I don't.

Now I don't want to see it banned or public display banned. Also, if people would not get so uptight over it, it would lose its power.
 
2004-12-20 09:54:47 PM  
Make the last paragraph this:

Now I don't want to see it banned or public display banned. Also, if people would not get so uptight over it, it would lose its power as a symbol of hate.
 
2004-12-20 09:57:55 PM  
smashlimousines: She should have been allowed to wear the dress, racist as she may be.

Yeah but where do you draw the line? I mean, if you're wearing it purely for Southern Pride, that's one thing. But if you're wearing it because you're racist, what about wearing a KKK uniform?

And if you want to get all libertarian on me, then she should be allowed to wear it, but the football team should also legally be allowed to kick the crap out of her if they find it offensive.

stupido:

Now I don't want to see it banned or public display banned. Also, if people would not get so uptight over it, it would lose its power as a symbol of hate.

Yes, but the same thing could be said about swasticas and the nazi flag.
 
2004-12-20 10:04:50 PM  
Yes, but the same thing could be said about swasticas and the nazi flag.

To some extent but the south never wanted to exterminate any race or religion.

Now that being said, I do not believe in banning the swatika or other Nazi symbols either. Germany does. I am a strong believer in freedom of speech and to me symbols are part of it. I am offended at things but I live with it.
 
2004-12-20 10:59:13 PM  
The swastika should definitely be allowed. We need to take it back to the meaning it had had for thousands of years, before being hijacked in the 1930s and 1940s.

Read this.
 
2004-12-20 11:07:03 PM  
Now I don't want to see it banned or public display banned. Also, if people would not get so uptight over it, it would lose its power as a symbol of hate.

Yes, but the same thing could be said about swasticas and the nazi flag.


Swasticas were around LONG before the Nazi's usurped them. They can be found in the history of numerous races/religions (including the Jewish faith). Even in American history (prior to WWII) it can be found, as a symbol of luck no less.

Banninging them would only add to the rally cry of the KKK and nazi types that are out there today. Instead people should be educated about the full history of the symbol and it's original meaning. Then the haters could deal with educated folks laughing at them. (Not that they don't already but hey...)
 
2004-12-20 11:08:48 PM  
...F5 is a good thing....
 
2004-12-21 10:09:47 AM  
The dress:

[image from spofga.org too old to be available]
 
2004-12-21 10:10:19 AM  
Sheeesh.

These are the same types of schools that will ban christmas decorations, but celibrate kwanza
 
2004-12-21 10:13:01 AM  
Thanks Mr. Butterworth
 
2004-12-21 10:13:25 AM  
Huh. If that's actually the dress, it isn't as bad as I pictured.

Nevertheless, I don't think she has a case. Had they suspended her or expelled her, perhaps, but denying her entry to the prom? Sorry, honey.
 
2004-12-21 10:15:07 AM  
The south lost the war, just like the nazi's. Get over it.
/Flame on!
 
2004-12-21 10:15:51 AM  
The history does not matter.

The south lost, a long time ago. They need to accept that and move on.

German kids don't wear swastika dresses to prom.
 
2004-12-21 10:17:34 AM  
I'd redneck it...
 
2004-12-21 10:18:25 AM  
"How would you answer to minorities who are offended by that flag?"

The same say answer to those who complain about God on the dollar.

With one finger.
 
2004-12-21 10:18:26 AM  
Yeah, but the south now controls the country, so the south did rise again.

It's too bad the Civil War pretty much made it impossible to succeed from the Union. I think seccession, when done for the right reasons has a lot of validity. There is every reason for states like California to secede as it has such a huge economy, and a very different culture that is at odds with much of the US.
 
2004-12-21 10:19:22 AM  
Argh, secede.
 
2004-12-21 10:20:05 AM  
Gee. I thought red staters hated lawyers and lawsuits.
 
2004-12-21 10:20:12 AM  
seventeenfifty:

They just go to this club instead.
 
2004-12-21 10:21:19 AM  
http://www.m90.org/view_image.php?image_id=1258
 
2004-12-21 10:22:15 AM  
Did her boyfriend come in a tux made to look like Dale Earnhardt's racing suit? Now THAT would have been the White Trash Daily Double.
 
2004-12-21 10:22:47 AM  
What is wrong with that dress? Nothing. This is stupid.

The South was right to leave, Lincoln was a tyrant. Jefferson Davis is MY President.

/not kidding. Well, just a little.
 
2004-12-21 10:23:12 AM  
On one hand, I think she should have been allowed into the prom. I mean, geez, being denied entry over something like clothing?

Yet... I can understand why they wouldn't want to let her in. Yeah, there's the whole free-speech thing, but there's got to be a point where something becomes inappropriate. The dress would likely have offended quite a few people.

...Besides, what was she THINKING in wearing something like that, anyway? It really doesn't look that great on her. =\ Not very complimentary at all.
 
2004-12-21 10:23:48 AM  
I personally think the Battle Flag needs to be conceeded to the racist organizations as their symbol. It has been bastardized to the point it no longer serves a purpose other than racist. I attended a traditionally black college and had the Bonnie Blue flag on my rear window. The only question I ever received was why was I showing a Somoli flag? Strange but as a southern student of history it is clear that the Battle Flag no longer belongs to historians but now racists.
 
2004-12-21 10:24:41 AM  
did anyone bother to read the article? it had nothing to do with the confederate flag being offensive. she was stopped by the fashion police for looking stupid as fark.
 
2004-12-21 10:26:03 AM  
What amazes me is that the Earth hasn't rolled off its axis, despite the impact of so many people on this thread being obviously dropped on their heads as children.
 
2004-12-21 10:26:52 AM  
At least it isn't a two-piece prom dress. Yeesh.
 
2004-12-21 10:28:10 AM  
You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her...not wear a confedarate dress?
I dunno, I got nothin'.
That being said, I live in the south and find it in incredible bad taste that people continue to wear/fly/display the Bars and Stripes.
What else gets me pissed is the slogan that accompanies it: "It's not racism, it's heritage".

WRONG
That right there is nothing more than an excuse.
 
2004-12-21 10:28:32 AM  
Headline is tha shizzle!

/no
 
2004-12-21 10:29:51 AM  
The worst part is that she ruined a perfectly good set of curtains making that dress.
 
2004-12-21 10:30:20 AM  
some of the people in charge of the republican group here on campus held a confederate flag party a couple of years ago. well, technically they called it a "states rights party" because they wanted to celebrate the freedom of states to act as they please. now, did they hold it on campus where they all live? nope, held it downtown, far from the 97% black west philly. why didn't they celebrate gay marriage? aren't marriage laws a state issue? oh wait....

of course one of those people also celebrates robert e. lee's birthday on martin luther king day and ignores king. she lets everyone know it. not making that up.

assholes (not republicans, just stupid racists)
 
2004-12-21 10:30:39 AM  
Has nobody considered that it is not anyone's right to not be offended. I went through 4 [OK 5] years of college where I was reminded almost daily that straight, white men were just about the root of all evil. And in no uncertain terms. Over time I just sort of got used to it, and I think it might be a good thing if others did as well. Nobody is asking anyone to approve of her cracker dress, but it is her dress.

I hereby call for an objective test for the next years prom. See what kind of symbols are acceptable and which are not. I suggest A confederate flag, a swastica, a cross, a star of david, a crescent, A free tibet logo, and the Prince logo. Some stuff from the catholic/protestant thing in ireland would be appropriate too.
 
2004-12-21 10:30:47 AM  
Tarrant84
How would you answer to minorities who are offended by that flag? Do you think their objection is warranted?

Bluntly, I answer "get over it". It's how I answer most complaints of political incorrectness. Personally, I would not display that flag, because I think that, like the swastika, its meaning has been lost. Still, the right to free speech includes the right to be an ass.

/looking for constitutional right to never be offended
//nope, still not there
 
2004-12-21 10:31:01 AM  
in related news... Islamic students were allowed to enter with clothes only revealing their eyes, and clearly carrying AK47s and Grenade Launchers. When asked, a member of the school board said "We're trying to be tollerant of all cultures." She used the same reasoning when probed on why black kids were allowed to wear pants around their knees, and clothes that should fit a 500 pound person. "This is just black "culture", we can't discriminate... We should remember our history lessons... When we brought slaves over from Africa, they listened to nothing but music about violence, drugs, and biatches and hoes, and they all had gold teeth, wore strange rags on their heads, and pants around their knees... I think we should be sensative to the traditions that some cultures pass on from generation to generation.... And if we take away the baggy pants, platinum chains, and 20" rims, blacks with have nothing left to remind them of their African heritage."
 
2004-12-21 10:31:26 AM  
that dress should not have been banned.

/doesnt give a goddamn about the confederate flag or the nancies whom are afraid of it
 
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