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(MSN Autos)   Ravaging assault on U.S. patriotism   ( yellowtimes.org) divider line
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7850 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2002 at 2:10 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



348 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2002-03-01 03:35:45 PM  
IFeelNothing, what you are talking about is nationalism.

Berklee, are you getting this opinion that the majority of Americans "consider 'plaintiff/victim' to be a viable career choice/source of income" from the decidely fewer than majority wackjobs who do this? I just want to make sure you're really doing this stereotyping thing.
 
2002-03-01 03:37:15 PM  
"All this "patriotism" in the form of insults and close-minded arrogance is much easier than actually dealing with the truth of the matter, which is namely that Americans for the most part are loud, ignorant, arrogant, corrupt mess-makers who have never taken responsibility for their own actions."

And that is a thoughtful, well-grounded response based on facts? Just the same name calling you are chastising.
 
2002-03-01 03:37:51 PM  
So this is a popularity contest world cit? should we do less for americas citz and more for the rest of the worlds people so that they may like us more?
Guess what...we are assholes...we like it...and your country sucks...hahahahha. now go and pay your 70% taxes and wait in line for a warm glass of shut the fark up.
They are just mad cuz we stole hocky from them.
 
2002-03-01 03:37:56 PM  
Ultra Hal wrote:
You mean they have a hard time figuring out that all that act did was bring us together against those people who hate our country?

No, I didn't mean that. I think everyone can understand that. But it's not the same as being proud about being american.

There is no reason to be more or less proud about being american because you are attacked by terrorists.

I think most americans don't really distinguish between those two things, but most non-americans do. That was the point I was trying to make.

I guess you're of the school that thinks we should've gone crying to mommy since we "got what we deserved".

No, I'm not. Feeling pretty aggressive today, aren't you?
 
2002-03-01 03:38:30 PM  
I've never said that the U.S. is perfect.

There are a lot of things that need to be fixed.

Speed Traps are one of them.

But overall, it's a great place to live, no one is telling me what to do with the threat of violence if I don't do as I'm told.
 
2002-03-01 03:38:48 PM  
Hmmm.. some of that guy's stuff I agreed with ("Even though the President said nothing demonstrating statesmanship or imagination or even compassion, everyone applauded and applauded and kept applauding"), some I disagreed with ("Anyone, that is, but the people who keep gulping and snorting the stuff down" - I think we're more aware of our role in the drug chain than he thinks), and some I didn't really understand ("the sermons on democracy and rights frequently are used as wedges for trade concessions"), but I definitey don't see how ANY of his points add up to a reason to hate America. That we can drink water from the tap without getting sick, can sue a business for false advertising, have had one major foreign attack on our soil since the Revolutionary War, and especially that we can write about how much our country sucks without getting hauled off to prison, outweighs all our political corruption and hypocrisy.
 
2002-03-01 03:38:58 PM  
Here's how it works:

Conservative: Patriotism is X, Y and Z

Liberal: I dig on X, but Y and Z?!! fark that.

Conservative: Go home if you don't love your country.

Liberal: but, but...

Conservative: Your ideas aid and abet our enemies.


Half this country thinks patriotism is an entirely different animal from the other half. You only get in trouble when one half tries to enforce theirs on the other. Which is what this article is (poorly) complaining about.
 
2002-03-01 03:38:59 PM  
Phix-it: "War is not just a way to drum up support of a current administration."

It is if you happen to be one of those people who hate the current administration.
 
2002-03-01 03:39:29 PM  
"Interesting note about not paying UN dues... We stopped paying UN dues after we lost a seat on the Humane Commite Board or some other board like that to SUDAN!"

Totally not true. We stopped paying our UN dues well before that. We didn't really start again until after we were voted off the human rights commission.
We signed the treaty and therefore we should keep up to our commitments. I know that when I sign a contract I'm sure as hell held to it.
 
2002-03-01 03:39:42 PM  
For the LAST farking time!! You people are talking about NATIONALISM not PATRIOTISM!

Will people start investing in dictionaries!
 
2002-03-01 03:39:48 PM  
The nerve of someone to actually criticize america!
Did most of you farkers even read the article? That would mean the WHOLE THING, not just up to the part where your blood started to boil and rushed over to the message board to pound out your "opinion" on the author...
Most americans are living in some delusional Norman Rockwell calendar, actually believing that their country is a great place. It isn't. But there is no reason it can't be the best country in the world EVER. But at the rate your government is going now, there is no way that will happen. It's being sold out from underneath you.
Bah, I don't have the energy anymore.
If americans are too lazy or too stupid to realize they are being farked in the ass by a government that they didn't elect, then good for them. Don't cry when the next depression hits, or you're sent off to die in some country so that the VP can drill for more oil...
Stop wasting your time arguing about left/right party lines...they're both the same damn party anyway.
Vote Green.
BTW, make fun of Canada all you want, we still have one of the highest standards of living in the world.
And some of you farkers are just reenforcing the international opinion of americans being mentally unstable, lazy and ignorant. Even when it's their own future and country at stake...
whatever...
 
2002-03-01 03:39:55 PM  
Ultra Hal:

Yes, most of the world doesn't invade a country when attacked by terrorists. I guess the rest of us are concerned about the fact that we'll have to live in the world after the dust clears. It's one thing to go into Afghanistan, which was hardly governed at all by the Taliban and certainly aligned with Al Queda but it will be quite another when dubbya wants to go to North Korea or somewhere else that has an established government and international friends.
 
2002-03-01 03:41:17 PM  
IFeelNothing, what you are talking about is nationalism.

okay, nationalism then. thank you for expanding my vocabulary. yes, that is exactly what i'm talking about. and it frightens me.
 
2002-03-01 03:42:39 PM  
Yay Patriots! whoo-hoo!! [image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available]
 
2002-03-01 03:43:12 PM  
Karmic Hoax: My bad. I meant that it's more popular in the US, not commonplace. I really didn't intend for it to come out as a stereotype.

I won't claim it to be true, but there is SUPPOSEDLY a valid survey on the internet that SUPPOSEDLY shows a surprising number of Americans considering 'winning a lawsuit' to be their plan for securing a retirement income.

Since I can't quote the source, I'll still say SUPPOSEDLY, and leave it open for someone to pull it out of their bookmarks.
 
2002-03-01 03:44:03 PM  
"Guess what...we are assholes...we like it..."

Not all of us like being assholes. And I now know why they think we're loud. When I lived overseas I had very little contact with Americans. When I would go to places where there were Americans, after being out of the country for a few months, I would avoid them like the plague. They were loud. They walked around with an attitude of owning the place even though they knew nothing about the culture other than the small travel book they might have read on the plane over.
Of course, I've been back in the States for awhile, so now I'm probably once again a loud American. Oh well.
 
2002-03-01 03:44:52 PM  
Funny how the people who attack democracy fail to ever attack Fundamentalism as a form of government.

Ultra Hal
A friend of mine was alive probably 1/10 of a second before that picture was taken. She was at right about the spot the 2nd plane hit on the 2nd tower. 86th floor.

I agree, to everyone who says we shouldn't band together in a time of crisis. "Fuc/< off!"
 
2002-03-01 03:46:26 PM  
For the LAST farking time!! You people are talking about NATIONALISM not PATRIOTISM!

Will people start investing in dictionaries!


hilarious... the most vehement post in a while comes from a grammar nazi. i guess we suck at the dictionary.
 
2002-03-01 03:48:31 PM  
Lintmagnet is right... we need to follow his example and go to a Canadian web-board and warn its citizens that the Canadian government is undermining their country... and that they are mean-lazy-bastahds for letting it happen. This will contribute greatly to "saving" Canada. And its citizens will love us for being honest, well-meaning Americans who have all the answers.
 
2002-03-01 03:48:42 PM  
patriotism isn't a sickness, it's a great thing. unfortunately, this is blind patriotism. it's near rabid patriotism. Patriotism should be about loving your country always, it's crap that it took something like September 11's attack for people to wake up to that. And now that that happened, you see a bunch of flag toting jerks who are banding together in support of something that they should have been supporting from the get go. The Yellowtimes article is a good one, people need to frickin wake up and realize that their part of the damned problem. You guys keep saying how their just pointing fingers and shifting the blame. What are they to blame for? Whose foreign policy is responsible for US flags being burned in our ally countries? What crap is that. I don't see Canadian flags being burned anywhere because, well, frankly, Canada doesn't do anything. American consumption and neglect for responsibility is making this country a horrible place to live. Everywhere I look I see fat people. FAT PEOPLE. no place else in the world has nearly as many fat people as we have. obesity is now a disease here. it'd be solved with exercise, but people are too lazy to better themselves, instead they succumb to the world of cheeseburgers and internet pr0n. the people of this country, God bless it, need to wake up and seriously get their lives in order, because they're the ones fuc/<ing it up. You have to clean up from the inside first before you clean up the exterior.
 
2002-03-01 03:49:02 PM  
It's funny how a lot of foreign leaders were educated in America and how they send their kids to be educated in America. Wanna take a wild guess why? Because we have the best of everything the world has to offer.

I'd like to see us pull out of all foreign affairs, cut aid to all foreign countries and stop educating the world. Hell, lets take their Internet away from them too, since we invented it. I can tell you what will be said about us if we do that, THE SAME GOD DAMNED THING! The reviews will never change. We are discriminated against just as equally as we discriminiate. It's a two way street.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. We choose to try to make the world a better place, however right or wrong that is in your eyes.

If you wanna blame something, try blaming technology for making our world a global community, instead of a cluster of isolated continents. Maybe you should blow up your computer and go live in a shack with Ted Kaczinsky.
 
2002-03-01 03:49:18 PM  
[image from bbc.co.uk too old to be available]

Sad but true!

P.S.A. Recycle, you fat farks!
 
2002-03-01 03:49:26 PM  
Right on Toonz! GO PATS!!!!

[image from lvrj.com too old to be available]
 
2002-03-01 03:49:38 PM  
Someone attacked democracy on this thread? I must have missed that, I'll go and check.
 
2002-03-01 03:50:11 PM  
wow that was quite a rant, sorry.
 
2002-03-01 03:50:45 PM  
Pa-Tri-Ots!...Pa-Tri-Ots!...Pa-Tri-Ots!
[image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available][image from homepage.mac.com too old to be available]
P...A...T...S... PATS! Go Pats! Whoo-hoo!
 
2002-03-01 03:51:02 PM  
WorldCitizen
I agree Americans could and should learn more about the rest of the world other than what they read in a Rick Steve's travel guide. Everyone in the world pretty much knows about the U.S. culture through our movies, news, etc. But how can the average American know every detail about every single other country out there? How many of us know about the infrastructure problems of Lichtenstein. Or the current problem facing Uruguay today.

Everyone in the world is a self proclaimed expert on America. Yet is it America's fault for not being an expert on every single other country?
 
2002-03-01 03:51:12 PM  
He's saying that zealous nationalism leads people to ignore potential problems with their country, as clapping along with your brothers is so much easier. Unfortunately, supporters of his viewpoint are in a minority. It seems everyone watches the same 6 o'clock news and drinks the booze of "America is the best!" when most of them are too close to home to make an unbiased decision.
It's natural to defend your home team, but don't let that lead you to believe there aren't problems, particularly when this game isn't about winning, it's about diplomacy.
 
2002-03-01 03:52:57 PM  
Spazkid:

If you take all american inventions from the rest of the world away, does that mean that you guys will stop using all non american inventions?
 
2002-03-01 03:54:10 PM  
Because we have the best of everything the world has to offer.

do you ever stop and listen to yourself?

I'd like to see us pull out of all foreign affairs, cut aid to all foreign countries and stop educating the world.

educating the world. you, sir, are a comedy genius.
 
2002-03-01 03:55:33 PM  
I'm gonna bleat again....

Now that the internet is as widespread as it is, I really thing we could fix a lot of this by creating globalized standards for education. From where I sit, one of the many roots to this problem is that there's too many people around the world that don't have enough exposure to visualize anything but what's in their own backyard. While a solution like this may take years or even generations to present it's value, I think it plants the seeds for a stronger understanding between nations.

*takes off boy scout hat and wanders off*
 
2002-03-01 03:56:30 PM  
It's funny how a lot of foreign leaders were educated in America and how they send their kids to be educated in America. Wanna take a wild guess why? Because we have the best of everything the world has to offer.

If only you could suck your own dick.
 
2002-03-01 03:56:50 PM  
SpaZkid wrote:
I'd like to see us pull out of all foreign affairs, cut aid to all foreign countries and stop educating the world. Hell, lets take their Internet away from them too, since we invented it.

DARPA did invent the internet, but Tim Berners-Lee (english) invented the world wide web. I don't think the internet would be very useful without www, do you?

Go back to your class, you might learn something...
 
2002-03-01 03:56:50 PM  
Mercutio74,

I'm just making a point. It's not about inventions. If we did what everyone wants us to do (whatever that may be), they would still complain, call us names and hate us. We're screwed any way we slice it.
 
2002-03-01 03:57:19 PM  
Berklee:

If there's understanding between nations... how will we ever go to war?
 
2002-03-01 03:58:49 PM  
Later gang. Time to go get a Sam Adams.

Happy Friday, fellow conformers!
 
2002-03-01 03:58:58 PM  
Everyone in the world is a self proclaimed expert on America. Yet is it America's fault for not being an expert on every single other country?

that's a good point. i've never thought of it that way.

but if you were to compare our version of "world news" with the bbc's, you'd see just how far our heads are up our asses, collectively. american world news tends to be a chronicling of america's interests abroad.
 
2002-03-01 04:00:47 PM  
So the other guys news is the right one the.....okay thanks DA
 
2002-03-01 04:02:08 PM  
Spaz
yeah, your education is soooo great in america. Why, I bet anybody could go to Yale, right? Even if they are a C student? Only if there daddy is George Bush Sr.

You guys all love the same country, the difference is that some of you have awakened from your trance-like state and realize what is going on. The rest of you, while well-meaning, have no clue what you're talking about. Just open your mind. There are FACTS about your country that you don't know, because your media doesn't tell you. But the rest of the world knows all about you...
The weirdest thing is that after September 11th there has been so much attention on the grieving process, and revenge. And that's ok. But there has been little to no discussion about WHY america was attacked. Don't you want to know why other countries hate america. It's not because they're jealous. And it doesn't mean any of you Americans are bad people. But your leaders are, so vote em out. Hell, you didn't even vote em in!
 
2002-03-01 04:02:24 PM  
SpaZkid wrote:
If we did what everyone wants us to do (whatever that may be), they would still complain, call us names and hate us. We're screwed any way we slice it.

Since you know that, you should be able to explain why that is so.

And I assume you would behave just like that if you were not born in the United States?
 
2002-03-01 04:02:54 PM  
If only you could suck your own dick.

Imagine if it could suck itself!
 
2002-03-01 04:03:14 PM  
Dave.bowman:

DARPA did invent the internet, but Tim Berners-Lee (english) invented the world wide web. I don't think the internet would be very useful without www, do you?

Go back to your class, you might learn something...


Gee, I guess his www is useless without TCP/IP, which was invented by the US Government (DARPA). Why don't you go back to your class and learn something. Oh, and yes...it is useful, do you ever use Email? That was around in the DARAPnet days. Toolbox.
 
2002-03-01 04:03:16 PM  
Spazkid:

This idea has been coming from the US forever. "I mean really, we've tried foreign policy one way and it doesn't work... we must be screwed." I bet if the US ever tries to paticipate in global interaction as opposed to dictate what it will be, you might find a lot more friends.
 
2002-03-01 04:04:29 PM  
He has good points. America seriously blows ass in many, many ways. So do other countries, but being number 1, we just blow ass much better than everyone else.
 
2002-03-01 04:05:18 PM  
Spenfox
I agree with you on the fat people aspect.

It is disgusting here in the states to see fat people waddling down the street with their fat babies. And I'm not talking about the people who are in the 250 Lbs and under category. I'm talking about the 300, 400, 500 lbs crowds. The kind that no longer have human form to them.

Maybe this country does need a food shortage for a decade to put an end to it. Maybe then subways will be a bit less crowded... even with more people!

I blame the restaurants. They put too much cheese on everything.

Then this whole "Super Size" concept. A small soda at McD's today is the size of a Large soda 25 years ago.

Too much food commercialism. Too much junk food!

See... and some people here say I have nothing bad to say about America.
 
2002-03-01 04:08:08 PM  
For about 2 weeks after September 11th I was very patriotic. I was bound together in the national crisis as we all watched the horrifying video over and over. My friends were facinated by my forwarding of patriotic materials to them (especially my friends overseas who were not quite as wrapped up in the event as those of us in the US). And then the nationalism started. The blind patriotism kicked in. The everything-the-US-does-is-good-and-right-and-how-dare-you-question-us-​you-terr orist/commie thing kicked in. And it made me very uneasy. Now the entire world is watching this reaction and it is making them uneasy. Their sympathy is melting away by our arrogance.
As I mentioned before, it is like the person at the cocktail party that has the most money and power. They are walking around all smug, looking down their noses at everyone in the room. Maybe they are not a bad person at heart, but they are behaving very badly. This person is loud and proclaims himself to know what is right for everyone else in the room. When everyone in the room thinks this person is being an asshole, don't you think it might be good for this person to take a moment, be a little introspective and think about why people think he's being an asshole? Or maybe he just doesn't want to believe what he is hearing everyone whisper around the room? Maybe he thinks he's above their questioning? Maybe he thinks he's better than they all are and therefore doesn't have to listen to them? In that case, maybe he just is truly an asshole.
 
2002-03-01 04:08:42 PM  
SpaZkid wrote:
Gee, I guess his www is useless without TCP/IP, which was invented by the US Government (DARPA).

Did I ever say the US hadn't invented something useful? You were the one saying that US had invented all the important things, remember?

You were wrong, I was not.
 
2002-03-01 04:09:51 PM  
If that is the worst America has done, then we are doing pretty good, I think.

I used to be a democ-rat, too, but then I opened my eyes to reality.
 
2002-03-01 04:11:09 PM  
WorldCitizen: That was the best post I've read all day.
 
2002-03-01 04:11:26 PM  
Spazkid and Mercutio74
What the hell do inventions have to do with anything?
Canadians invented the telephone, so I guess no internet for you then boys...
 
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