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(Denver Channel)   Estes Park may oust councilman who refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance before council meetings   (thedenverchannel.com) divider line 307
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6060 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2004 at 11:32 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-16 09:40:21 AM
Is there really that little to be worried about in that town? They're concerned about what one of the councilmen does at the start of a meeting? An action that has no effect on their lives? Sheesh.
 
2004-12-16 09:51:31 AM
When the commies start to wear their red flags on their arms, can them. You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows. Nuff said.
 
2004-12-16 09:57:10 AM
dg41: An action that has no effect on their lives?

That action may have no impact on their lives, but Johnny YouGotYourGodInMyPeanutButter is goign to take his views into consideration when making other votes/decisions that *do* impact their lives.

He's an elected offical there to represent the views of his electorate. If they can recall him and vote someone else in as a result, he didn't deserve to be there to begin with.
 
2004-12-16 10:04:00 AM
The board began reciting the pledge before meetings earlier this year at the suggestion of Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark. She suggested it as a way to show respect for the country during wartime.


When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a biatch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that "The Star-Spangled Banner," one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. ....

Without realizing how it had come about, the combat men in the squandron discovered themselves dominated by the administrators appointed to serve them. They were bullied, insulted, harassed and shoved about all day long by one after the other. When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was the greatest piece of music ever composed
 
2004-12-16 10:06:26 AM
Is there really that little to be worried about in that town?

Pretty much. It's mostly a tourist trap anyway.
 
2004-12-16 10:11:49 AM
A little background on the story, since I heard about it on the radio last week: 1) the city council didn't USED to say the pledge of allegiance, that was something that started recently. In fact, the vote was initiated by the same councilwoman who wants him out, and was taken when he was on vacation.
 
2004-12-16 10:13:25 AM
And KyngNothing, that was exactly what I thought of when I first heard this story.

/Major Major Major Major surrenders
 
2004-12-16 10:18:11 AM
If students are "allowed" to NOT say the pledge, why shouldn't this guy??
 
2004-12-16 10:30:08 AM
It means nothing that he's served the town for 12 years. It means everything that he won't say some patriotic words out loud. I wasn't alive in the 50's, but I have to believe that we're well on our way to another witch hunt.

(If this guy is crooked and/or an ass and this is the only way they can get him out of office, then I can at least understand this insanity)
 
2004-12-16 11:23:16 AM
Here's an article from the Rocky Mountain News about the background of the story.
 
2004-12-16 11:36:03 AM
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! Get this commie faggot hippie out of there!!1
 
2004-12-16 11:37:33 AM
I know where his is going. So a quick question. The flag and the pledge are symbols of our country. To burning the flag and/or refusing to stand for the pledge are signs that you do not like the country. Simple as that.
 
2004-12-16 11:40:16 AM
Way to take a stand buddy!

Too bad the religious zealots will can your buttocks, but you did the right thing. Too bad doing the right thing in politics means standing up for the minority, which gets you nowhere.

ZM

p.s. I can't BELIEVE that Americans care about this so much. I can't tell you how glad I am to be Canadian.
 
2004-12-16 11:40:37 AM
God forbid someone doesn't say "under God" in the pledge. Oh wait, there is no God, so we're in the clear. Joke would be on you when we die and there's no afterlife, but it'll be pretty hard for me to say "told you so" after my conciousness has ceased to exist.



/"I'm sorry, the correct religion was the Mormans, that's right, the Mormans." - South Park
 
2004-12-16 11:41:35 AM
Why does that councilman hate America?
 
2004-12-16 11:42:00 AM
KyngNothing
Awesome post - thats exactly how I feel

/you know that hotel from The Shining is in Estes Park?
 
2004-12-16 11:42:05 AM
I, state your name.
Do hear by pledge allegiance to the frat.
With liberty and fraternity for all.
Amen

 
2004-12-16 11:42:13 AM
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! Get this commie faggot hippie out of there!!1
Right so not saying the pledge makes him a communist, gay, and some who likes tye dye, music, and marijuana.

Makes sense to me....
 
2004-12-16 11:42:31 AM
One nation, under the magic invisible sky genie...
 
2004-12-16 11:42:51 AM
2004-12-16 11:37:33 AM Hang On Voltaire

What was the question? Yes we should be allowed to burn the flag in a free country. If you can't the country is not free.
 
2004-12-16 11:43:26 AM
He should get a hero tag.
 
2004-12-16 11:43:34 AM
Hang On Voltaire
To burning the flag and/or refusing to stand for the pledge are signs that you do not like the country. Simple as that.

First off, he's not "disrespecting" the flag. He's not standing for the pledge because of the religious content in it.

Who respects his country more, the sheep that stand and say whatever the majority says they should, or the man who does some research, and takes a stand for what he thinks the constitution means?
 
2004-12-16 11:44:24 AM
AuntofDogface
He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. But a recall is the voters saying they don't like him and the voters have all the sway. You don't have to break ANY rules to be recalled. The people want someone that represents them. So eventhough I think he should be able to do this, I side with the people being able to recall someone that doesn't represent them.
 
2004-12-16 11:44:24 AM
To burning the flag and/or refusing to stand for the pledge are signs that you do not like the country.

There's no laws agaisnt not liking the country from time to time. What are you, some kind of fascist bully boy?
 
2004-12-16 11:44:54 AM
I'm sure they will replace "under God" with "under Bush" any day now.
 
2004-12-16 11:45:26 AM
 
2004-12-16 11:45:29 AM
Symbols are all well and good, Hang on Voltaire, but only as far as they don't negatively impact real life.

Consider this parallel:

Standing and covering your heart during your national anthem is a sign that you love your country. Failing to stop your car, standing, and covering your heart at the start of every baseball game radio broadcast doesn't necessarily mean you hate your country.

Unless you also have a Kerry bumper sticker -- then you're debauchery incarnate.
 
2004-12-16 11:45:37 AM
Hero! Fark these neo-Nazis who would step on his religious beliefs. If this recall flies, then we should expel the fundies for the "prayer-round-the-flag" activities.
 
2004-12-16 11:45:39 AM
Beaten to the Catch-22 reference. Damn.
 
2004-12-16 11:45:51 AM
Damn...my spelling is off today.
 
2004-12-16 11:45:58 AM
If this is really such a huge deal maybe they should simply wait until the next round of municipal elections and let the people decide if he belongs on council again.

He's been on council for 12 years, so his views on such matters are probably fairly well known and should have been understood by those that voted for him.

On a related note, recall petitions are farking bogus and a total sham. Use your vote wisely initially and suck it up for 4 years.


/Canadian
 
2004-12-16 11:46:38 AM
Hey, that flame on pic looks familiar....
 
2004-12-16 11:47:00 AM
Nothing to see here, move along.
 
2004-12-16 11:47:03 AM
I'd troll, but it would just be too easy this time. You guys take the bait a hell of a lot easier than you used to.

I blame god. And babies.
 
2004-12-16 11:47:11 AM
"I lived under the Nazi flag. When we were liberated by Gen. George Patton, we saw the Nazi flag go down and the American flag go up," Donahue said.

"No one said the Pledge of Allegiance. No one sang The Star-Spangled Banner. But everyone knew what the flag stood for and what patriotism is," added Donahue, who earned a Purple Heart and the Air Medal with four oak leaf clusters.


Those communists!!


Wait, so the recall was organized by the husband of the woman who brought it up in the first place? Who is a gun dealer?

//Nothing smells like small town politics...
 
2004-12-16 11:47:22 AM
LessthanZero:

First off, he's not "disrespecting" the flag. He's not standing for the pledge because of the religious content in it.

Who respects his country more, the sheep that stand and say whatever the majority says they should, or the man who does some research, and takes a stand for what he thinks the constitution means?


Whoa whoa whoa... slow down there, buddy; sounds like somebody hates America...
;)
 
2004-12-16 11:47:43 AM
Recall elections are jokes; no one is likely to go out and vote in a special election unless they have strong views on the issue.

The only people that have strong views on the recall of a town councilman are the half-dozen people that want him ejected.
 
2004-12-16 11:47:57 AM
Recall votes are usually favorable to muscleheaded Austrians.
 
2004-12-16 11:48:41 AM
So if it's no big deal, they just say "under God" and continue with the silly little meeting. Or even better, stand like everyone else, say the WHOLE pledge but not that "God" part you're so worried about. No harm, no foul. There's fighting the good fight, but I think this guy isn't.
 
2004-12-16 11:48:42 AM
/off topic... server being stupid

can you guys see this image?
 
2004-12-16 11:48:46 AM
Anyone wanna bet this is gonna turn into a dumbass biblethumper rallying point? Because their right to force him to say GOD is obviously more important than his right to not say something he doesn't believe in.

He should probably just say the pledge, and when it comes to the "one nation under GOD", close his mouth and stand silent until the next line. This is what I do whenever I'm reciting something that refers to "god" (you oughtta hear me at xmas festivals).

N.
 
Yst
2004-12-16 11:49:15 AM
fish500:

I, state your name.
Do hear by pledge allegiance to the frat.
With liberty and fraternity for all.
Amen



Heh. This is what occurred to me when I read this. I mean, I'm a member of a fraternity, and the fraternity acting like a fraternity is one thing, but I certainly don't expect my country to treat itself like a stereotypical frat, where symbolic pledges of loyalty shall be treated as more important and fundamental than actual acts and behaviours.

Americans seem to think that their nation should treat its citizenry like a big huge frat. It's certainly not my conception of nationhood.
 
2004-12-16 11:51:28 AM
"But the recall takes it to another level." Repola estimated the cost at about $5,000 - the amount the town gave to a mentoring program this year.

This is my key problem. They are wasting taxpayers money, especially since he is a dead-duck politician who will be off the council anyway due to term limits.

While I am ambivilant towards his stance on the pledge, I would immeaditly vote this councilwoman out on her ass for spending a signifigent portion of the small towns budget to accomplish essentialy nothing, except make themselves feel good and patriotic inside. Any public servant who so blantenly wasts my money should be removed from office.
 
2004-12-16 11:52:28 AM
If you read the history of the "Pledge" you could probable see how much of a "double plus non-issue" this really is.
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
 
2004-12-16 11:52:55 AM
"Duhhhh.....but 'murka is a Christian Nation.....duhhhh....it wuz founded with the 10 Commandments in mind......duhhhhh.
 
2004-12-16 11:53:14 AM
Aw yes. Welcome to America sir.

Reminds me of a local story.

Our city council started doing the same thing after 9/11. One time, however, someone forgot to bring a flag to the meeting.

Here's where it gets funny. Someone had a napkin with the flag on it, so the mayor held up the napkin and everyone pledged allegience to that.

Patriotism. It's the FIRST refuge of scoundrels!
 
2004-12-16 11:55:36 AM
North - Thats just not right! Poor guy, maybe we should change some rules so this one person isnt offended

South - Gooddamm that there Commie bastard! hang im!

/Civil War is still alive and well in the US
//obligatory
///my first FARK post...damn the 24 hour waiting period!
 
2004-12-16 11:55:58 AM
Oh great, here come the flag nazis like Hang On Voltair.

The thing that makes the country great is that people are allowed to not care about the flag and you got nothing to say about it so STFU. You're missing the point anyway doofus. He objects to the pledge because of the words "under God." He's got a legitimate beef. I think the inclusion is questionable too. The councilman chooses to express his concerns by not saying the pledge. That's his right. It doesn't mean he dislikes the whole contry.
 
2004-12-16 11:56:35 AM
Try to understand this from his point of view: He's a misguided liberal and, thus, finds nothing more offensive than the Peldge.
 
2004-12-16 11:57:34 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen: Please do not elect officials into public office who take orders from voices of invisible men in the sky. Unless they have some grip of reality and only do this in their private lives, and actually serve all of the public. Not just the biblethumpers. Thank you.

I applaud this guy who objects to the pledge and all, but for chrissakes, its the pledge of our country and if you dont like it you need to change the country first, and the pledge later. Not the other way around.
 
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