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(NOLA.com)   Louisiana judge suspended for a year after wearing blackface, prison jumpsuit, afro wig and handcuffs at a party   (nola.com) divider line 1003
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14900 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2004 at 10:21 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-14 07:32:48 PM  
OK, problem is that you can't say that white people and black people are NOT THE SAME. They are both human. See the racism coming out now? Asshat.

Uh pit-bulls and poodles are both dogs....just like blacks and whites are both humans.

Though while pit pulls were bred for fighting and poodles for hunting and blacks and whites essentially evolved because of what ever conditions doesn't make his statement racist.

Try again.
 
2004-12-14 07:33:23 PM  
Haizum

"BTW, I never said the police should "harass" anyone...unless of course pulling someone over and asking for a liscense and registration is harassment."

-------------

If they are not posing a traffic hazard, and if their stickers/plates check out (which can be verified without pulling them over), then yes pulling them over for no reason is indeed harassment.
 
2004-12-14 07:34:19 PM  
uidzero

must mean they are genetically criminal.

I never said anyone was genetically criminal, but you just did. Freudian?
 
2004-12-14 07:34:30 PM  
uidzero

You are wrong in your thinking. It is a simple fact that African Americans commit more violent crimes proprtionaly than any other racial group in America. (And no I'm not counting un-reported crimes, becasue I can't account for unaccounted for things).

This is fact, and has been borne out by any number of analysis of crim ein this country. Go find a study that shows they account for FEWER violent crimes.

Your refusal to acknowledge that fact shows you as being as closeminded as you are accusing others of being.

What that fact MEANS is a different thing entirely. It does not necisarily MEAN that blacks are just racially prone to violent crime. For instance, Statistically, Whites are disproportionally farmers. Does that mean that Whites are racially pre-disposed to agriculture? Of course not.

Further, you seem to libe in some sort of dreamworld, where trained proffesionals are supposed to completely disregard what years of experience and in the field training have taught them because you find it politically inconvenient.
 
2004-12-14 07:35:12 PM  
Haizum

Ok genius, it's always humiliating when one gets pulled over. Should people not be pulled over for speeding or having a stolen car because they might be humiliated?

If they are speeding or having a stolen car, no. Our justice system has deemed that to be a proper action to take when a CRIME is being commited.

What if they look like someone that might be carrying drugs?

Bloody damn important that you decide what looking like carrying drugs IS than isn't it? You have to define it as actually being related to carrying drugs, NOT the color of your skin. Asshat.
 
2004-12-14 07:36:09 PM  
Haizum

"Ok genius, it's always humiliating when one gets pulled over. Should people not be pulled over for speeding or having a stolen car because they might be humiliated?"
----------

no, those are called crimes, and the police have every right to stop those individuals and pull them over.


--------
"What if they look like someone that might be carrying drugs?"
--------

Tell me, what does a person that might be carrying drugs look like?
 
2004-12-14 07:36:35 PM  
REOIV

He can't handle the fact that I'm trying to be purely logical.

I'm not from the South and I have no personal reason to dislike blacks. If it was pink-haired blue-skinned people that appeared to be commiting most of the crimes, I'd be making the same argument.
 
2004-12-14 07:37:11 PM  
uidzero
you define a drug user as being someone with my color of skin!?!??!?!?!??

I said no such thing. Hell I didn't even think it. I thought you were a white guy with those stupid wannabee dreds.
 
2004-12-14 07:37:39 PM  
shipud

So Sepharadim are not "good with money"?

They don't seem to do nearly as well economically in Israel for one thing. They weren't represented in the same sorts of trades that European Jews were represented in when they were still a substantial fraction of the Arabic world. The story of Jewish usary is a European one. Were there rich Jews in the Arab world? Sure. But it seems to have been an actual phenomenon in Europe.

The big difference seems to be IQ. Which is a lot lower in Sepharadic Jews. They appear to match the Arab mean, actually.

All that stuff about available trades is interesting, but it doesn't explain why Jews are good at the things they're good at today. High IQ does.
 
2004-12-14 07:38:11 PM  
chipaku

Tell me, what does a person that might be carrying drugs look like?

I can tell you what they wouldn't look like based on statistics and by being a reasonable person.
 
2004-12-14 07:38:12 PM  
Haizum

I never said anyone was genetically criminal, but you just did. Freudian?

Ah, so you DON'T believe that having black skin and being more likely to commit a crime is linked? Or perhaps your making a few leaps here, and instead tying black to having an environmental experience which breeds criminal tendencies? Perhaps being poor? So perhaps being poor is a real indicator of a possible criminal? Hey I have an idea, why don't we use CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR as an indicator of a criminal, instead of incidental things like the color of their skin, the person's music taste, taste in cars, or hairstyle? Nah, too reasonable.
 
2004-12-14 07:39:00 PM  
In case anyone's wondering, for a guy, here's a summary of
company and/or government required actions in response to
someone modifying their appearance at Halloween parties:

* Black - odd looks from co-workers, lots of whispers

* Black guy in orange jumpsuit - lose job for 1 year

* Hispanic - demotion, pay cut

* Indian - Termination, no severance

* White - Inconsequential, lots of laughs

* Female - Inconsequential, lots of laughs

* Animal - Inconsequential, lots of laughs

* Fictional character - Inconsequential, lots of laughs

* Pumpkin head - lots of laughs all week long
 
2004-12-14 07:39:54 PM  
uidzero

why don't we use CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR as an indicator of a criminal

Um, you have to catch them first. Bravo.
 
2004-12-14 07:39:59 PM  
Haizum

He can't handle the fact that I'm trying to be purely logical.

Oh yes, your 'logic' is killing me. Really. "Can you handle that analogy?" lol.

I'm not from the South and I have no personal reason to dislike blacks. If it was pink-haired blue-skinned people that appeared to be commiting most of the crimes, I'd be making the same argument.

What the hell does blue-skinned or pink-haired have to do with it? Why not brown eyed or shoe-wearing?
 
2004-12-14 07:41:00 PM  
Haizum

why don't we use CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR as an indicator of a criminal

Um, you have to catch them first. Bravo.


Or witness it. Ever notice how police drive around all day? Their job is to look for criminal behavior, not for people with a certain color of skin. Asshat.
 
2004-12-14 07:41:26 PM  
Why not brown eyed or shoe-wearing?

Why not a black person with a F*** tha Copz bumper sticker?
 
2004-12-14 07:41:45 PM  
chipaku
The real issue is, if he hasn't committed a crime, or if he is not posing a traffic hazard, what business do the police have in pulling him over in the first place? None.

Cops pull you over on suspicion. It's called reasonable cause. A lot of times it can simply be that you look nervous when the cop is near. I have a friend on the force, and a lot of times, it's a tiny infraction and a gut feeling. I have learned to respect a trained Proffesional's proffesional opinion.

And if you think that clean cut, shaved, white folks in polo shirts never commit crimes, you are sorely mistaken. The other side of the profiling problem is that it creates a do-what-you-want-and-be-ignored-by-the-police card for "nice looking white folks".

Read my above posts, I have said no such thing, and actually present myself as a prime example of the ' there is no white man gets away free' card.

Don't confuse me with other posters.
 
2004-12-14 07:43:30 PM  
uidzero

You are completely oversimplifying my stance and it's so ovbious that others have had to step in and tell you to either stfu or explain in further detail what I meant.

I'm not advocating a police state, I'm not advocating racism, but if a veteran cop has a "feeling" about someone and can act on it in a legal manner, then go right ahead. They are the ones risking their lives.
 
2004-12-14 07:43:51 PM  
Haizum

I can tell you what they wouldn't look like based on statistics and by being a reasonable person.

No, no you can't, you ASSHAT. You can tell us what they would PROBABLY look like, not what every single one looks like. Look for drug-carrying behavior. Wearing a certain type of hat, or having a certain color of skin is in NO way related to drug use/dealing etc. You are so thick it's amazing.
 
2004-12-14 07:43:58 PM  



. . . meanwhile, 60 miles away in New Orleans (as the buzzard flies), the second most famous Mardi Gras parade (Zulu) features everyone - white, black or otherwise - in blackface.
 
2004-12-14 07:44:54 PM  
uidzero
Ever notice how police drive around all day? Their job is to look for criminal behavior, not for people with a certain color of skin

Try to follow along. Cops are supposed to PREVENT crime as well as APPREHEND after the fact. Do you really think cops just drive around till they see a black guy? No. They drive around untill they see a SUSPICIOUS guy. If that guy happens to also be black, so be it. Just as black skin doesn't mean you are automatically guilty. It doesn;t make you automatically innocent either.
 
2004-12-14 07:45:28 PM  
Haizum

You are completely oversimplifying my stance and it's so ovbious that others have had to step in and tell you to either stfu or explain in further detail what I meant.

I'm condensing it, and using your language to point out what your actual motivations are.

I'm not advocating a police state, I'm not advocating racism, but if a veteran cop has a "feeling" about someone and can act on it in a legal manner, then go right ahead. They are the ones risking their lives.

ABSOLUTELY! But racial profiling and harassing a person who has not displayed any suspcious behavior IS NOT LEGAL. Asshat.
 
2004-12-14 07:45:33 PM  
uidzero
Holy crap, you people REALLY don't get it. How can I avoid looking like a drug user, if you define a drug user as being someone with my color of skin!?!??!?!?!??

If an Amish person doesn't want to look Amish they stop wearing the Abe Lincoln beard, and all black simple outfits.

If you can look at someone and say "That dude is Amish or that guy looks Amish." Usually you are right, course it could be a Quaker or someone dressed up for the hell of it.

Point being that if you don't want to be lumped in with a social group you should try to not look like that social group. End of story.

If you have dreds, a tan and look grungy chances are most cops and most people will assume you are a pot head or black if you have black dreds and not the weird yellow white guy dreds.

If you wear leather, have a beard, tattoos and drive a motorcycle most people will assume you are a biker even if you might be a kindergarden teacher. It is just human nature. If it looks, sounds, and smells like something usually it is that thing. There are always exceptions but for the most part it holds true. Hence why marketing groups go after certain demographics, insurance companies can charge higher rates to young kids, felons can't get most jobs and why sexual offender lists exist.

IE if 8 times out of 10 you pull someone over with dreds and they have pot or drugs or have broken the law then odds are you should pull over people with dreds because 80% of the time you will net a criminal.
 
2004-12-14 07:45:46 PM  
uidzero

Yes, I can tell you what they would PROBABLY look like. But not by a small margin, rather by a large margin.

I agree that stats can't tell you what EVERY SINGLE PERSON is going to be like or what they have done, but when the stats are overwhelming, it's just as foolish to look the other way.
 
2004-12-14 07:47:09 PM  
Jimmy Crackcorn

"You are wrong in your thinking. It is a simple fact that African Americans commit more violent crimes proprtionaly than any other racial group in America. "
---------

No, as pointed out, the only bonafide FACT is that black people are *arrested* for crimes more than any other ethnic group. The actual amount of crimes committed by all ethnic groups will never be know, so that can only be an assumption. You should learn the difference between facts, correlations, and assumptions.

Now, the question is, why do black people get arrested more often? profiling. Simple as that. Let me explain it to you as simply as I can:

For arguments sake, lets say that there was in fact a period of time in the past where we could *factually* prove that blacks did indeed commit a disproportionate amount of crimes. Say, 25% of all blacks committed crimes, as opposed to the standard 10% for all other races. Now we start to profile them because we know they are 15% more likely to commit crimes. This seems to make sense, except...

Lets say blacks have lowered their criminality to 8%, while whites and other ethincs have increased their amount of crimes to 15%. The problem with profiling now is that even though the actual number of crimes has changed, the police will still be looking at blacks assuming that 25% of them are criminals, and the other ethnics get the pass because the profile assumes they are only 10% likely to be criminals.

The end result is that even if committing fewer crimes, more blacks will still end up being arrested because of this profiling.

Well, thats as simple as I can make it. Don't make me go mathematical and put a proof on your ass. I don't have time. Maybe another mathemetician can take the time to humiliate your properly. have a nice evening.
 
2004-12-14 07:47:14 PM  
Jimmy Crackcorn

Try to follow along. Cops are supposed to PREVENT crime as well as APPREHEND after the fact. Do you really think cops just drive around till they see a black guy? No. They drive around untill they see a SUSPICIOUS guy. If that guy happens to also be black, so be it. Just as black skin doesn't mean you are automatically guilty. It doesn;t make you automatically innocent either.

OK maybe you're not paying attention, but Haizum is advocating prejudging someone to be a possible criminal based upon the fact that they are black. He is defining "SUSPICIOUS guy" as being black.
 
2004-12-14 07:47:44 PM  
Talk about justice.

The mods will finally be doing me some justice by banning this clown that keeps calling me an "asshat". I was banned for 2 days for calling someone a "jackass".

Fark must be 'racist' against my IP range.
 
2004-12-14 07:49:35 PM  
I'm skimming through this thread and I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

For all the progress made since the civil rights movement this thread just serves to demonstrate that there is a lot more ground to cover.
 
2004-12-14 07:50:06 PM  
woah woah woah

He is defining "SUSPICIOUS guy" as being black.

No, you are missing a critical part of what I'm saying.

Not because they are black, but because of the probability. Like I said, if purple people begin to commit crimes at an overwhelming rate, then profile them.

I know this is going to go back to how one cannot treat another a certain way bc of stats...
 
2004-12-14 07:51:12 PM  
I guess that means I'm racist against everyone and myself, depending on who starts commiting the most crimes.
 
2004-12-14 07:52:01 PM  
We've totally jacked this thread btw.
 
2004-12-14 07:52:08 PM  
REOIV

If an Amish person doesn't want to look Amish they stop wearing the Abe Lincoln beard, and all black simple outfits.

Great, but looking like a criminal doesn't involve being black. I'm fairly ignorant of Amish customs, but I assume their dress and facial hair is part of it. There is no criminal code which stipulates you must be black. No one can change the color of their skin, you can't ask people to "stop looking black" because in your racist mine black people are criminals.

If you can look at someone and say "That dude is Amish or that guy looks Amish." Usually you are right, course it could be a Quaker or someone dressed up for the hell of it.

You can make that jump if you want to mentally lazy, but you cannot and should not harass/arrest/humiliate someone because of it.

Point being that if you don't want to be lumped in with a social group you should try to not look like that social group. End of story.

I'm still having problems changing my skin color. Weird. Criminals as a social group are again, not black.

If you have dreds, a tan and look grungy chances are most cops and most people will assume you are a pot head or black if you have black dreds and not the weird yellow white guy dreds.

As the asshat said, ignorance is not illegal. If you want to make that ignorant assumption, that's fine. You cannot violate that person's rights because of it though.

If you wear leather, have a beard, tattoos and drive a motorcycle most people will assume you are a biker even if you might be a kindergarden teacher. It is just human nature. If it looks, sounds, and smells like something usually it is that thing. There are always exceptions but for the most part it holds true. Hence why marketing groups go after certain demographics, insurance companies can charge higher rates to young kids, felons can't get most jobs and why sexual offender lists exist.

IE if 8 times out of 10 you pull someone over with dreds and they have pot or drugs or have broken the law then odds are you should pull over people with dreds because 80% of the time you will net a criminal.


No, absolutely not. You should NOT. If having dreads were a criminal activity, god bless you, pull them over. A hairstyle does not have ANYTHING to do with drugs. Get it?
 
2004-12-14 07:53:05 PM  
REOIV
IE if 8 times out of 10 you pull someone over with dreds and they have pot or drugs or have broken the law then odds are you should pull over people with dreds because 80% of the time you will net a criminal.

You just nailed it in a way that even uidzero should be able to understand, but won't.
 
2004-12-14 07:53:12 PM  
Haizum

Talk about justice.

The mods will finally be doing me some justice by banning this clown that keeps calling me an "asshat". I was banned for 2 days for calling someone a "jackass".

Fark must be 'racist' against my IP range.


Or perhaps they agree that you're an asshat.
 
2004-12-14 07:54:18 PM  
A hairstyle does not have ANYTHING to do with drugs.

Yea, but what if it did?

What if a specific gang with only raceX as members had a specific haircut?

If the police act on that are they being racist or are they not being complete retards?
 
2004-12-14 07:55:14 PM  
Jimmy Crackcorn

REOIV
IE if 8 times out of 10 you pull someone over with dreds and they have pot or drugs or have broken the law then odds are you should pull over people with dreds because 80% of the time you will net a criminal.

You just nailed it in a way that even uidzero should be able to understand, but won't.


This is unamerican and utterly contrary to what the spirit of America is as to be laughable. The point of the justice system is to protect people's rights. We CANNOT afford to stomp on the rights of others in the name of protecting our rights, it's asinine.
 
2004-12-14 07:56:46 PM  
uidzero

I was right. You wouldn't understand it.

Try it this way. Which is more likely to get pulled over:

a) A black guy dressed like a rapper, in a crime ridden neighborhood driving a pimped out ride.
b) A black guy dressed like an accountant in a financial district driving a volvo.

Obvioulsy race is not the primary factor. Is it a factor? Yes. Is this the real world? Yes.
 
2004-12-14 07:57:24 PM  
uidzero

Or perhaps they agree that you're an asshat.

Yes, I guess by that logic if cops decide that cocaine, pot, etc aren't bad...then they aren't illegal because the law doesn't matter if the upholders of the law don't mind the crime.

uidzero's credibility: -1
 
2004-12-14 07:58:27 PM  
Haizum

Yea, but what if it did?

Then I guess the people wearing the haircut would be idiots for tipping you off. That doesn't mean you can harass them though when you have no reason to suspect them other than their haircut.

What if a specific gang with only raceX as members had a specific haircut?

If the police act on that are they being racist or are they not being complete retards?


You are again attributing race to being a criminal. The two are not connected. You can pull statistics about them having underwear on while commiting the crime, having brown eyes, having a stastically more probable hair length and more, but it doesn't mean it's connected to them commiting the crime. Criminal behavior is the -only- fair and true indicator of an individual criminal.
 
2004-12-14 07:59:06 PM  
Okay, this guy married my wife and I a few years ago at his house. First off, he's not a racist - I know him. Sure, the costume may have been in bad taste (I think it was, but it depends on one's taste, I guess), but it was at a private party in a local restaurant that his friend owns - not on the bench or in public. He showed up as himself in a parish prison jumpsuit, then realized that someone else (the sheriff) was present in the same costume, and he decided he had to do something to separate (segregate?) himself from the costume constest later that night. He put on blackface and a wig. It wasn't an afro wig, per se, but a clown rainbow-colored afro wig.

Second, my wife and I spent our wedding night in his house (he runs a bed and breakfast out of the home). We smoked a joint in his hot tub, for God's sake, while our wedding party sat up drinking with him and his wife until 4 in the morning. That said, there's just no way I can bring myself to condemn him for this indiscretion.

Also, the man comes from a really notable family (locally anyway). His father treated Huey Long's gunshot wound and built the local hospital out of his own pocket during the Depression. His uncle was a Senator for the longest time as well. He probably should have known better, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, I believe he was appointed (state district judges here are appointed, I want to say, by the governor), not elected.

Call me a racist if you want, but I was a white member of the NAACP until the local chapter brought up this issue against Tim Ellender.
 
2004-12-14 08:00:15 PM  
uidzero

Explain to me please how if a guy is black, looks like a drug dealer and gets pulled over, and is found to have 2 pounds of crack rock in the seat next to him, his rights have been violated?
 
2004-12-14 08:01:13 PM  
uidzero

You are again attributing race to being a criminal.

No, I'm attributing the haircut to being criminal, but everyone in the gang is of the same race to PROVE MY GOD D*** POINT.

How about I reveal that raceX is white and the cops are all white? Are the cops being racist against other white people? No, it has nothing to do with race, but you want it to so that you can discredit me by calling me a racist and an asshat.
 
2004-12-14 08:01:44 PM  
Jimmy Crackcorn

Try it this way. Which is more likely to get pulled over:

a) A black guy dressed like a rapper, in a crime ridden neighborhood driving a pimped out ride.
b) A black guy dressed like an accountant in a financial district driving a volvo.

Obvioulsy race is not the primary factor. Is it a factor? Yes. Is this the real world? Yes.


Yes it's the real world, which is precisely why it's so critical to not be lazy about your policework, and actually base it on criminal behavior, rather than a convienient statistic.

The path you guys want to walk down at the extreme would mean incarcerating black people from the day they are born because they are statistically more likely to commit crimes. Hey, if 15% of the black population commites 95% of all crime, we can clean up most of it by incarcerating 100% of the black population! Great idea! No, it's a horrible, horrible idea, and thats the line of thinking you people are in, taken to a ridiculous extent. You want to trample on some people's rights to protect your own. You want to do this because you happen to not be part of the group pointed at in the statistic. It's a nice luxury for YOU to have.
 
2004-12-14 08:03:23 PM  
The path you guys want to walk down at the extreme would mean incarcerating black people from the day they are born because they are statistically more likely to commit crimes.

That isn't anyone's position.

At best, my position is to investigate further based on stats, not to judge and sentence based on stats. That was a giant straw-man.
 
2004-12-14 08:04:30 PM  
Jimmy Crackcorn

Explain to me please how if a guy is black, looks like a drug dealer and gets pulled over, and is found to have 2 pounds of crack rock in the seat next to him, his rights have been violated?

First you have to tell me what you meant by 'looks like a drug dealer'. Do you mean he was parked in an empty lot, and several cars came up to him and handed him money through the window? Or did you just mean that he was black?

The ends do not automatically justify the means. They would catch all criminals if they systematically arrested every single person and investigated all their activites. After all, 100% of crime in america is commited by humans. You cannot profile people based on a statistic that is irrelevant to a crime.
 
2004-12-14 08:06:23 PM  
Haizum

That isn't anyone's position.
As I said, that was a gross exaggeration, based upon your thinking.

At best, my position is to investigate further based on stats, not to judge and sentence based on stats. That was a giant straw-man.

Unfortunately, investigating further is harassment and ILLEGAL based upon racial statistics, and I'm damn glad that it is. What you are suggesting is racist, and horrible.
 
2004-12-14 08:06:29 PM  
uidzero
Criminal behavior is the -only- fair and true indicator of an individual criminal.

OK. You are officially pronounced an Idiot. (All in favor feel free to say Aye)

Since in your world, we have NO means of catching criminals that by their criminal behavior, then we can never catch anyone unless we catch them in the ACT.

We cannot build a case against anyone, because their ONLY true indicator is 'criminal behavior'.

Good. I think I will come over and cut your head off with a butter knife, when no one is around. That way, even when I go to the local bar covered in blood, no one will be able to do anything, because I will not then be 'acting criminally'.

Do you even understand the real world?
 
2004-12-14 08:06:30 PM  
They would catch all criminals if they systematically arrested every single person and investigated all their activites.

I guess they don't because statistically, most Americans aren't commiting crimes at the same time.

You can't use statistics uidzero!
 
2004-12-14 08:07:56 PM  
Haizum

No, I'm attributing the haircut to being criminal, but everyone in the gang is of the same race to PROVE MY GOD D*** POINT.

How about I reveal that raceX is white and the cops are all white? Are the cops being racist against other white people? No, it has nothing to do with race, but you want it to so that you can discredit me by calling me a racist and an asshat.


Are the cops looking at the white people as possible criminals because they are white? Then absolutely. You keep brining up race over and over and over again as a valid indicator of someone being a criminal or looking like a criminal or constituting crimnal behavior, and you want to claim you're not racist!??!?!?
 
2004-12-14 08:08:15 PM  
uidzero hasn't seen Minority Report
 
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