oh sorry about that, for one moment i was trying to influence other people.. that's not my intent here.. damnit.. well, i'll go back to laughing at you guys who are actually all hung up on this and tied in little emotional balls of coronary hemoraging.. look at the armchair politicians ma, they's funny..

frolixo.. do you think that was my point? did i say don't think? you people don't listen to each other, you don't actually think openly, you grab facts and apply them to your world view.. a generalisation but the people who don't do this know what i mean.. i'm pro thinking, but if you know anything about human nature and history bad people pop up all the time, do bad things, and if i were to go along with more than have of what i read in political message areas i'd say, aw damn, that hitler was bad, but lets not hunt him down, and let's not do anything we can to stop him.. sacrifice is part of life.. and some have to be made here..

"I'd say that Suicide Bombers already defiled their corpses by blowing them up. Some pigskin isn't gonna cause that much defiling by comparison. :)"

Well maybe not, but how would you feel if you mommy died and the mortitian who handles her farked her corpse, i mean she won't notice right? She's already dead, And oh she died from a brutal rape so what difference does it make if he farkes her somemore?

BTW then he drives a pole thru her heart just to be sure she's not a vampire :)

Imagine that story got posted on FARK and someone used the COOL tag on it? Would it make you feel happy or perhaps a bit disturbed?

Lie down on the coach and tell me.

Ok, how was that for a flame? Am i doing alright?

Jester, I am shocked and outraged at your babble. I happen to have a lot of experience at politics and I'm the CEO of a fortune 5000 company (SEI). I was the class treasurer in my middle school, and although I was impeached because of a fraud scandal, I know how the system works.
Like most of America's young retards, I don't really give a flying fark, but ranting is better than working, and invokes more thought than commenting on a "Heinz has more ketchup colors!" thread.

Mandela about Israeli Apartheid

A letter written by Mandela to Thomas Friedman


To: Thomas L. Friedman (columnist New York Times)
From: Nelson Mandela (former President South Africa)

Dear Thomas,

I know that you and I long for peace in the Middle East, but before you
continue to talk about necessary conditions from an Israeli perspective,
you need to know what's on my mind. Where to begin? How about 1964. Let
me quote my own words during my trial. They are true today as they were
then:

"I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black
domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society
in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal
opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve.
But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."

Today the world, black and white, recognise that apartheid has no future.
In South Africa it has been ended by our own decisive mass action in order
to build peace and security. That mass campaign of defiance and other
actions could only culminate in the establishment of democracy.

Perhaps it is strange for you to observe the situation in Palestine or
more specifically, the structure of political and cultural relationships
between Palestinians and Israelis, as an apartheid system. This is because
you incorrectly think that the problem of Palestine began in 1967. This
was demonstrated in your recent column "Bush's First Memo" in the New York
Times on March 27, 2001.

You seem to be surprised to hear that there are still problems of 1948 to
be solved, the most important component of which is the right to return of
Palestinian refugees.

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military
occupation and Israel is not a country that was established "normally"
and happened to occupy another country in 1967. Palestinians are not
struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality, just
like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa.

In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour
Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it
occupied in 1967; that settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under
exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an
independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with
Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.

Israel was not thinking of a "state" but of "separation". The value of
separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the
Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could
have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If
this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular
democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid
not only de facto, but also de jure.

Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you
clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who
openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of
"I hate Arabs" and "I wish Arabs would be dead". If you also follow the
judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against
Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 occupied territories
you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that
represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian
life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two
different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is
not recognised as private property because it can be confiscated.

As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an
additional factor. The so-called "Palestinian autonomous areas" are
bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of
the Israeli apartheid system.

The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just
in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel's racial
discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a
Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which
non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a "Jewish" state.

Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of
Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of
gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically
incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules
of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a
civilian population, in particular children.

The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from
the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed light on
what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a
just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its apartheid
policies.

Thomas, I'm not abandoning Mideast diplomacy. But I'm not going to indulge
you the way your supporters do. If you want peace and democracy, I will
support you. If you want formal apartheid, we will not support you. If you
want to support racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing, we will oppose
you. When you figure out what you're about, give me a call.

Oh, then there must be some confusion Jester, for we are on the same page. I am pro-action and all for killing the farkers.
I just think Bush and gang are a little nuts and want a major war on many fronts. Rumsfeild reminds me of George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove.

hey kung, how does my mother getting farked even compare to the bodies of murderous people, i wouldn't care if they were made into taxidermy displays labeled "this is the face of terrorism" i say you kill you lose any right to being treated decently.. but to you i'm probably a deranged individual.. but what are you going to do about it? yell at me, because violence wouldn't be nice, i deserve respect because what if someone hit your mom?

?

!

frolixo, it's okay, i'm often confused.. i'm just here to say what i feel until i get bored at the reactions or they get repetitive.. i know they don't listen to what i say, simpley formulate a response.. it's all my therapist does too for that matter..

The difference is the targetting of civilians. Palestinians definitely have a legitimate reason to be angry. And if they were blowing up Army bases, police stations, government institutions, that would be striking back against the government that oppresses them. But as long as there are Palestinians who attack the civilians and the rest of Palestine seems to be cheering them on (and I haven't heard any Palestinian voices arguing against the morality of bombing civilian establishments), it will be very hard for the Israel people to make peace.

If this was done to those Palestinians killed in protests or counter-attacks, that would be horrific. If they do it to a suicide bomber going after civilians, it's downright spiffy.

I respect Mandela's word more then any ultra-conservative, far-right winger, Christian fundie, US president ass licking bigot like "RobbieFal".

what's harmonia on about now? by the way, hi harmonia, been a while.. you ever going to apologise to me?

Mandela should worry more about South Africa than the Middle East. Talk about a farked up place! I would rather be vacationing in Kabul than in South Africa. Highest murder rate in the world, and over 70% of the population is HIV positive. But I digress...

sounds like a swinging party.. i just miss that bantu steven biko fellow.. he was cool.. but they killed him.. i've wanted to go to south africa for a while now.. maybe i should wait until the murder rate is at least second highest, eh?

Frolixo, just take a condom with you and you'll be fine.

i'm a scottish/german/norwegian/irish/welsh/cherokee deist/buddhist actually, and i'm serious.. so i guess i've been apologised too.. persistence pays off..

LOL at Jester.

left out american.. damn.. oh well, they don't like me here anyway..

Mods, can we do something about this little anti-semetic git who is impersonating me?

Jester, I sont know what you need an apology for, Was it one of the sad little f*cks impersonating me that said something?

you insulted me once based on an assumption and i fealt that you just ignoring my counter by pointing out it wasn't true warranted you admiting it, not pretending the conversation didn't happen.. but maybe you were busy..

Are you sure it was me and not that little sh*t above?

check the profiles

is fb in here posting and i can't see it? or is harmonia losing it?

no it was you, i remember, it was the same day we had a hell of a time getting you to tell us what you think george bush should have done since you always pointed out how bad his decision was..

have fun there harmonia.. tell the queen i said hello..

please don't tell me you think i'm fb, he's an asshole, only farker i truly loathe..

LMAOROFL

You have done it before and the profile is right down your street, if it wasnt you why dont you condemn it then oh master of stupidity and ignorance.

Jester the tone of your comments suggest that you are "bigger than all this discussion shiat".

how smallminded can you be? it's just that sort of arrogant attitude that causes conflicts.

engage, discuss and resolve....THE only way to develop understanding amongst people and bring about peace. it is sooo weak to just say "heck there are always going to be bad people doing bad things...nothing changes"

fark should be humourous but it can can also be full of insight...and incitement. this is a unique medium where people of all levels get to offer their 2 cents.

break down the barriers mate and stop being an elitest intellectual shiat

Mail sent flamebait.

Am I the only one who is tired of seeing these posts on Fark? I'll admit- it's a timely topic, and when something truly newsworthy happens (as opposed to something designed to shock or inflame existing levels of rage) it would be worthwhile to post. But I've waded through two threads in two days, filled with the same rhetoric and overt hatred.

I'd much rather see a Grammy's post. Or more domo-kun. I'd even prefer boobies (quite a statement as a heterosexual female). If I wanted to be confronted with the ramifications of the failure of Middle East Peace initiatives, I'd read the paper.

Harmonia, you've got quite a fan base. A pathetic, impotent loser who spreads lies about himself on a website pretending to be some sort of a celebrity and a stalker. I think they both want sex with you, Harmonia. Show 'em what Scottish meat is made of!

Harmonia,

Contrary to what your stupid paranoid mind is telling you, I never have and never will setup or post under another account. I guess you just manage to make enough of an ass of yourself that you have pissed off some of the other 20,000 people that post here.

Go talk to Drew. Drew has the IP logs. Go waste his day. Stupid shiat.

i'm not an elitest, i am however a realist, and whenever i TRY to have a discussion online in a base like this i hear a lot of people talking about theoretical politics and theoretical philosophy that is beautiful but not practical.. and the name calling and the stupidity, especially if people like fb are about are sickening.. i've done a lot of reading, studying, and listening but i still realise when there is no choice but to respond with brutal efficiancy, i wish it wasn't true, i really do, i'd like a world where people didn't kill each other.. but i can admit i'm wrong, if i came across elitest i'm sorry..

but i don't think these murders have rights anymore than i think insanity is a reason not to sentence a murderer to death or that tight pants make a fat ass sexier..

actually, i'm not pissed at harmonia, i just wanted an apology so i could justify thinking the guy is cool even if my politics are different and i'm living in the evil america.. hehehe.. and my details might seem strange to you there harmonia but it's all true, i'm a loser, i'm broke, but i don't lie.. hehehe..

Jester,

Let me see if I got this right... you fancy yourself a pseudo-intellectual poser and you want to silence and dissenting opinions others may have. Especially anybody that might express their opinion with less grace than your Oxford charm you are so kind lay down on us.

Whooo-eee...lookit all the angry people. Dibbitz schmibitz, I said more ham.

You know, when I get to heaven, I don't want 72 virgins. Even if you can talk them into headin down south, they treat you like a chew toy. No...I want 72 slutty girls. That's heaven.

Kazamak: I SERIOUSLY CAN NOT BELIEVE HOW BIASED FARK HAS BECOME. THE REAL CRIMINALS HERE ARE THE 'SETTLERS', THEY'RE OCCUPYING THE LANDS OF SOMEONE ELSE

It seems that you have pre-determined the outcome of what is to be done with these disputed territories. The truth of the matter is that UN resolutions 242 and 348 gave Israel control over these regions as an occupying force until such time as the parties involved: Israel, Jordan, Egypt and Syria can come to an agreeable peace.

Egypt settled their territorial dispute with Israel in 1979. Israel dismantled dozens of settlements in the Sinai as part of its agreement with Egypt. As a kid, I remember when the Israeli army had to forcibly remove some settlers as part of the agreement.

Jordan settled their territorial differences with Israel with the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty of 1994. It should be a matter of relative simplicity to extend the provisions of this treaty to the 5% of "Palestine" in which sovereignty has not yet been finally determined. What we have today is a third party between Jordan and Israel in the form of the "Palestinian Authority" -- which has caused and will continue to cause immense problems to both Israel and Jordan.

It's interesting to note that Jordan had possession of the West Bank from 1948 to 1967, yet there were no "Palestinian" complaints of an occupation. You see, the "Palestinians", as they say in the vernacular, "have issues" with Jews.

Anyway, with regard to the West Bank and Gaza, 242 and 348 have been fully implemented. Syria has resisted negotiating a lasting peace over the Golan Heights because they refuse to address the Israeli pre-condition of peace.

So the settlements are, in fact, legal and are not the real issue here. If Arafat had agreed to Barak's proposal, the state of Palestine could have included some of those Jewish villages. However, even one Jew in Palestine, is an anathema to the Arabs -- this is the real issue.

Lets all become Scientologists. We'll all be happier when we're Clear.

;-)

"In the years preceding World War I, General John J. 'Black Jack" Pershing was commander of the American forces in the Philippines. The small Moslem community on the island nation began to wreak havoc against the Philippine
government and American forces. The American troops captured a large group of these terrorists. During the interrogation by the Military Court, the fanatics were heard to repeatedly shout, 'Allah Achbar! Allah Achbar! Jihad! The Philippines are the lands of Islam!' "Pershing ordered the Amalekites executed one by one in the presence of the whole group. (The author is referring to the prophecy in the Bible that the Amalekites would be a very
vicious and war like people down through history.) Moslems will not eat pork believing that no one could enter Paradise if there is even the smallest amount of swine flesh in their bodies. Knowing this, the General first ordered the firing squad to shoot large hogs. After they skinned the swine, the executioners rolled their bullets in pork fat and passed fat through the barrels of their rifles while the condemned watched. As each condemned terrorist was executed, his corpse was wrapped in hog's skin and buried on the spot. The entrails of the swine were dumped over the corpse before the grave was covered. Three of the convicted Amalekites were released to take the news back to their Islamic Communities. That ended the Islamic Jihad in the Philippines. Terrorist incidents from Islamic Fundamentalists were unheard of until a decade ago when the U.S. State Department recognized the PLO as legitimate 'Freedom Fighters' "

Ratbert,

And why is the land occupied?!?! Because the Palestinians tried to run the jews into the ocean in 1967. The Jews kicked the shiat out of them in 7 days. You start a war and lose it.. guess what, YOU LOSE YOUR farkING RIGHTS TO THE LAND

thanks fb.. i've never been told i have charm.. i still hate you though.. it's nothing personal, well, yeah i guess it is.. maybe if i was related to you i could learn to pretend to like you at a family reunion though..

Fb, the Israelis started the 67 war.

i was going to say so earlier but watching you screw up was too enjoyable.

"6/5/1967
After mounting rumors of military preparations on both sides, Israel attacked Egypt, Syria and Iraq, and subsequently Jordon. UNSC calls for a cease-fire were accepted on June 10 only after Israel completed its objectives of destroying the Arab air forces and securing what it considered defensible borders at the Suez canal, the Jordan River, Gaza, the Golan Heights and Sharm al Sheik."

http://web.mit.edu/cascon/cases/case_aiw.html

I See my number one fan wants to make a point.

hey number one fan, why not do it under your own name?

woah, i didn't even see that . at first, thought hell had frozen over.. how long has that been going on? i hadn't seen it before, now i'm wondering how many posts i've read and been mislead by..

damn.. it was the imposter who apologised.. you still owe me! oh well..

Do I? you want to show me a link to what I am supposed to have said JM?

CleverBlonde: The Palestinians are not just terrorists. They are fighting a war to get back land they feel was stolen.

So, if I "feel" that all the gold is Ft. Knox was stolen from me, I'm entitled to wage war and blow up girls for eating pizza?

no, if you want to do that fine.. i pointed it out at least five times to you while you were still there.. i'm not going to bother showing you again, either you have a shiatty memmory or you just like to play like you can't make a mistake.. besides, i can't remember which damned comments thread it was in and i'm not going digging for it when you wouldn't apologise then, doubt you will now..

Ok, so if the Palestinians had no problem with Jordanian rule, what was that business with the attempted overthrow of the monarchy by the PLO back in the 1960s?

Get this straight. The Palestinians are the people, and the descendants of people, who lived in the region between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River and left the area before advancing Israeli forces could reach them in the '48 war. If the Israelis can make a land claim based on a nearly 2000-year-old link to the land, I think people who have a century-old link also have a right to live there.

Under Oslo, the settlements were supposed to stop. Under every peace plan advanced, the settlements stop, because they are an attempt to exert and maintain Israeli authority over the Occupied Territories. If that land is Israel's, then the Palestinians should be given full citizenship and movement rights within Israel's borders. If it's not, the Palestinians should be given authority over that land. This occupation limbo cannot be maintained indefinitely, a forced transfer of the Palestinians would only bring another war with the Arab nations, an attempt to destroy the Israelis would only provoke military intervention by Western nations and an even worse conflict. This ends with full citizenship for Palestinians as part of one nation or another on the land they live on, or this doesn't end.

Your body just rots when you die. Sorry people.