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(boston.com)   New Hampshire man, after finding local sex offender registry online, decides to try and kill seven of them. "I hope I've done a service to the community"   (boston.com) divider line 372
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27065 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2004 at 9:36 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-12-06 01:58:29 AM
BillSPreston

Actually, in the majority of jurisdictions, one of the parties has to take an overt step in furtherance of commiting the crime (ie buying the break in tools) in order to convict on conspiracy.
/if wrong, please correct before my Crim law professor does


Check with your Professor, the prof's always right. IANAL.

That being said, "overt steps" can actually be quite minor. I thing that in many cases, you have to prove ability, e.g. they already had a laptop with NMAP installed and were proficient as script kiddies :)
 
2004-12-06 01:58:31 AM
Tons of misinformation here:
The first misconception is the ridiculous recidivism rates thrown around. Recidivism rate varies based on several factors, such as relation to victim, age difference, gender of victim, and so on. Anyone who gives a single statistic is talking out of their ass. That said, the most common cases of sexual child abuse are incest, which has a recividism less than 10% over three years from release. Of course, that's a conviction rate, and if you count non-sexual crimes, it's higher. So a child molester might violate a condition of parole (being out too late), or commit some other non-sexual crime. But I'm not counting those. I don't have a link for this info but it is based on an actual FBI report summarizing statistics for various crimes.

Second misconception is the percentage of people that are on the list for statutory or other innocent activities such as scratching their ass. That is actually quite rare. Look at a few registries to verify for yourself.

Third misconception is the psychological characterizations used to try to make molestation or rape seem worse than murder. I can't speak of global statistics, but I do know several people who have been either molested or raped, and I can at least say they'd rather be alive than dead. The emotional scars are real, and nothing to scoff at. But neither rape nor molestation are the worst crimes that can be committed, at least in terms of their impact to the victims.

This guy is in no way a hero. Those who approach the issues with a sound mind rather than blind emotions can see this.
 
2004-12-06 02:02:22 AM
Woot. But what ever happened to doing a job right?

Oh, and its time we ban knives...they cause stabbings.
 
2004-12-06 02:04:47 AM
I wish he succedded

Sexual predators of children should have their genitals ripped off and be forced to bleed to death, to hell with jail time.

as to those that think im wrong ... let someone destroy your child and see if you dissagree.

It is all of our place to buck the process, as a matter of fact it is our responsibility. Not to mention the "proper channels" are bullshiat the only way to make things different it to take matters into your own hands.

I for one am a big proponent of "frontier justice" because what we have now sure as hell aint working.
 
2004-12-06 02:09:47 AM
etymxris
So what are you basing your stats on?
DOJ publication
http://www.csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html
Results show that over longer periods of time, child molesters have a higher failure rate thus, a higher rate of rearrest than rapists (52 percent versus 39 percent over 25 years).

This seems to be a fairly comprehensive study, though it admits that there are a wide range of factors that affect the outcome.
 
2004-12-06 02:15:15 AM
BillSPreston , I was waiting for the response because I should have included in my original post, but didn't want to make it too long, since then people don't read it.

There are many many "normal" acting women who have been raped, they just don't go around seeking sympathy by telling everyone around them, and blaming everything on something that happened a long time ago. It can be used to manipulate others, such as "I was raped so be good to me", and these are the cases that usually are quite outspoken about it.

Let's be honest here, if you got raped up the ass (I'm assuming you're a guy), would that forever damage you? I could think of worse happening to me than that, like getting my skull cracked into 3 pieces or my penis getting cut off.

I'm not belittling rape, but let's not make it out to be some imaginary horrible monster it isn't, it's bad enough on it's own without exaggerating the truth.

I've been beaten to an inch of my life as a child on regular basis, and I've managed fine. Emotional baggage one can deal with, irreversible physical damage you really cannot.
 
2004-12-06 02:20:31 AM
2004-12-06 02:04:47 AM Sownow

I wish he succedded

Sexual predators of children should have their genitals ripped off and be forced to bleed to death, to hell with jail time.

as to those that think im wrong ... let someone destroy your child and see if you dissagree.


Of course, if you knew someone wrongfully convicted who was subjected to that kind of vigilante justice, yo'd be singing a different tune, too.

There's a reason the families of victims aren't the ones who hand out sentences.
 
2004-12-06 02:20:48 AM

I for one am a big proponent of "frontier justice" because what we have now sure as hell aint working.


...then move to the frontier, which in this case would be, say, Western Sahara or maybe Fallujah.

You want the cushiness of living in civil society? Respect that, imperfect as they are, the courts decide how to punish people, not you and your gun rack.
 
2004-12-06 02:24:52 AM
Fapio
I'm not belittling rape

Uhm, yes, yes you are.

Stop 'yer whinin'! Yer still alive, ain'tcha? Now STFU and fetch my bourbon!
 
2004-12-06 02:30:19 AM
Fapio
There are many many "normal" acting women who have been raped, they just don't go around seeking sympathy by telling everyone around them, and blaming everything on something that happened a long time ago. It can be used to manipulate others, such as "I was raped so be good to me", and these are the cases that usually are quite outspoken about it.
That is incredibly insulting to those women who have had trouble coping. My sister happened to have been raped and still suffers from PTSD (her description of night terrors sounds particularly fun). She doesn't go around telling people about it for "sympathy", nor does she use it to "manipulate" people. Just because some people are better at coping afterward, doesn't mean everyone should be or is. Your argument is equivalent to saying that if some soldiers manage to come out of wartime w/o psychological issues, then those suffering from shell shock must be trying to play the sympathy card.
As for the physcial v. emotional abuse issue, both are a matter of degrees and both are henious.
FYI. Rape often accompanies other physical abuse, and the act of rape itself can do physical damage or even be deadly if the person has HIV.
 
2004-12-06 02:32:24 AM
So speaking the truth about rape is belittling it because I'm not exaggerating how bad it is, and jumping around wanting to kill people vigilante style?

Here is a question. When a child gets molested, do they know they were harmed? Usually not, they have no reference, unless it was a painful experience. It's the parents who take on all the pain and suffering.
 
2004-12-06 02:34:11 AM
Fapio:

I don't know how "normal" you think these women are, but their probably fooling you. Most people intentionally act normal while inside they are festering all sorts of emotions that are the complete opposite. Lots of people either don't want to even think about the rape, or are so afraid of being judged that they don't ever bring it up, that's why the reported # of rapes is probably so far off from the actual #.

/again, speaking from experience
 
2004-12-06 02:37:35 AM
BillSPreston , valid point, I can appreciate some people have a much more difficult time with it than others, just like with any other crime.

Having read a number of books on the topic while helping my friend (who was later my GF) cope, I've learned a lot from it. It's not something I made up on my own here, from one case scenario. The other girls I know that were raped and are open with me about it, are fine, so that's all I got to go on.
 
2004-12-06 02:38:12 AM
Fapio
I'm not belittling rape

I am. In high school, one of my boarding-school friends got raped in the ass while he was sleeping. We thought it was hilarious.

He was pissed off, but he didn't get scarred for life or some shiat. I do not fault the weaker sex for their emotional fragility: they cannot help their natural limitations. Men, however, should farking take it like a man... even if it is in the ass.

(Oh yeah, and pedos should burn. This man ain't a hero 'cause he didn't finish the job.)
 
2004-12-06 02:40:56 AM
ARC7, there are plenty of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.
 
2004-12-06 02:42:03 AM
this guy wasnt trying to kill statatory rapists.....he was trying to kill child molestors. and you all know this in the first place unless you are blind.

so all you defending the stat rapists can shut the fark up now.

obviously we need to make it easier to pick these guys apart from each so we can kill them quicker so we need to make up different titles for them.
 
2004-12-06 02:46:45 AM
If he first proved the person commited the sex act against a minor, then he gets a hero tag for sure.
 
2004-12-06 02:47:36 AM
shizman that's probably very true. The point behind the "I was raped so be good to me" statement was that some people learn to use this circumstance to help them along, so in the end they will not be able to recover from the experience since they're constantly using it as a tool, instead of healing. Being a victim grants you a certain power over others. After all, who wants to be mean to a victim? They prolong their adverse effects, for the benefit of others treating them with great sympathy.
 
2004-12-06 02:54:22 AM
Fapio:

I truly understand that, but I think those that use it as a tool are of the personality that they would use anything as a tool, and not nessesarily just rape (I know of one such person).

A lot of people, especially partners of rape victims fall into the trap of giving the victim too much power over them, and it ends relationships and marriages. Of course, a lot of the time the partner WILL have to put up with things they normally wouldn't, but it's a question of putting your foot down and saying "It's up to you to fix what needs fixing, and I'll be there for you but not if you make me worse."
 
2004-12-06 02:55:19 AM
BillSPreston:

Within 3 years, 2.5% of the 3,138 released rapists were rearrested for another rape, and 1.2% of the 4,443 persons who had served time for homicide were rearrested for a homicide. Among other offenses, the percentages rearrested for the same category of offense for which they were just in prison were --

13.4% of released robbers
22.0% of released assaulters
23.4% of released burglars
33.9% of released larcenists
11.5% of released thieves of motor vehicles
19.0% of released defrauders
41.2% of released drug offenders.

DOJ Report

I believe that "rape" is inclusive of all sexual crimes, but whatever "rape" means in the study, it certainly ends up on the registry, so is relevant.

I read the study you linked. It's interesting, but doesn't really seem to contradict this one. The main point is that sexual criminals do not have an especially high recidivism rate. In fact, sexual criminals were only 3.5 times more likely to commit a sexual crime than non-sexual criminals. Maybe we should put all criminals on the sexual registry?
 
2004-12-06 03:02:52 AM
Shizman , fully agree.
 
2004-12-06 03:05:22 AM
etymxris
I only had time to skim the report I linked (exam tomorrow), but the higher figures that I listed (40%-50%)were due to the fact that they extended the study out to 25 years (as opposed to the 3 years of the study you just posted). It is possible that recitivism rates climb over that timeframe for all crimes.
That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to lists for all violent crimes. I believe that the benefit public safety outweighs the potential harms such lists create. Can you honestly say you wouldn't want to know if a murderer moved next door? In an ideal world, I would love to say that the criminal has paid his debt to society and should not bear any further stigma; however, as a law abiding citizen (most of the time) I feel my right to increased safety outweights his rights to privacy.
 
2004-12-06 03:22:36 AM
fapio
Here is a question. When a child gets molested, do they know they were harmed? Usually not, they have no reference, unless it was a painful experience. It's the parents who take on all the pain and suffering.

Uhhhhh... please, please tell me you just have a really farked-up sick sense of humor and this was some attempt at a "joke." The parents (or parent, if it is the other parent doing the molesting -- and it very often is) usually don't even know. They find out AFTER the kid as gone through hell, manifested self-destructive behavior, usually involving drugs and alcohol and has sought therapy and then it comes out, "oh yeah, my dad raped me and I've been traumatized by it for the last decade." Oh, THEN the parents feel it when it comes up over Thanksgiving dinner. Sort of, "oh pass the potatoes, by the was dad was farking me when I was in junior high, oh and some stuffing too, thanks."

That's one of the biggest things here. Most of the time rapists are well known to the victim. Very often not only are child molestors known, they're related. It might be an older cousin, a sibling, an aunt/uncle or a parent, but it usually isn't the ice cream man. Makes sense, no? I mean, unless the parents are totally derelict in their duties as parents, who's watching the kids, eh?

It's soooo much easier to paint up the picture of the anonymous bogeyman, though, because that's a lot more comfortable than thinking your husband or brother is the one farking your 12yo daughter, not the creepy guy across the street.
 
2004-12-06 03:48:39 AM
equusdc I was referring to very young children, who really have no comprehension of what's wrong or what's right. Sexual contact or "molestation" feels good to them, so they don't know they shouldn't be involved in it. Only until they become older and can understand the situation, then emotional problems can arise.
 
2004-12-06 03:53:07 AM
Fapio

Dude, are YOU on that list? Dang... No farking comment, buddy...
 
2004-12-06 04:01:31 AM
Why, do you disagree with that analysis? Do I need to exaggerate everything to make it seem worse than it is, before I can not be grouped in with criminals?

I know it's not politically correct to state the truth in these matters, but one shouldn't bury their heads in the sand.
 
2004-12-06 04:06:31 AM
Fapio

I don't think you're going to find many takers on the "for very young children, sexual contact or 'molestation' feels good" theory. The fact that you put "molestation" in quotes is particularly fascinating...

Farking WOW. Truly amazing.
 
2004-12-06 04:11:16 AM
So it feels bad to them? It hurts them physically? Emotionally? Maybe you should check out some books on the topic.

Humans are sexual creatures, from a very young age. The quotations were to differentiate between abusive and physically harmful acts, and one that isn't, apart from morality. Either one is a crime, but one is much more damaging than the other.
 
2004-12-06 04:20:46 AM
I have read many responses, and I have to say that they guy errored in his judgement. He should have taken out the sex-offenders and their lawyers! That is the only way he is going to make a difference.

I don't see what is wrong with a death sentence for the sex offenders? Actually, removing their genitalia with a rusty fork is an acceptable method (which would allow them to live) in my humble opinion.
 
2004-12-06 04:29:27 AM
yes! i hope they send in willem dafoe to investigate. he makes one sexy woman.
 
2004-12-06 04:39:14 AM
Aloha gang!!!


Good idea. Bad execution.
Had he done it right, he could have succeded in doing a good thing.
 
2004-12-06 04:57:15 AM
I don't see what is wrong with a death sentence for the sex offenders?

You don't?

Consider some creep who is compulsed to rape a pre-pubescent child. As the creep is finishing his abhorrent deed, he reflects that if little Tiffany goes to her parents and he gets caught and convicted, he's a sure bet for the needle or the hot squat (the hotter the better, if some of you are throwing the switch). Why wouldn't he just make sure that the victim never has the opportunity to give evidence? After all, one can only be executed once.

But if you still think executing sex offenders is a good idea, get together with a bunch of people who agree with you AND GET THE LAW CHANGED.

Until then, ABIDE BY IT.
 
2004-12-06 05:23:24 AM
I think child molesters and rapists (in the non consensual forced sex way) are the scum of the earth just as much as the next person.

However, like has been said many many times already here, this whole registry thing is just ridiculous. It's far too broad, groups way too many crimes with way too many people, and it's being abused.

I dont understand why someone who tried to murder someone doesn't have to be in a database, but someone weirdo that touched some kids weiner has to.

BUt then again we have people involved with marijuana in prisons serving longer terms than people who killed people too, gotta love our country.
 
2004-12-06 05:52:47 AM
Fapio

So it feels bad to them? It hurts them physically? Emotionally?


Yes, and it is hardly something seriously debated among the medical, psychological, psychiatric and social services communities. It is regarded as a fact so well documented that suggesting otherwise is, if it could possibly be funny, laughable.

Here 'ya go. Have a read. But hey, if you have a serious source that claims otherwise, by all means, post a link.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childsexualabuse.html

Damage during childhood:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_ US&PageId=1485

Manifestations in adulthood:
http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZMXNDEKEC&sub_cat =351
 
2004-12-06 05:54:20 AM
Smite 'em!
 
2004-12-06 05:56:03 AM
Every American who thinks this kind of vigilante "justice" was worthy of a hero tag should get the fark out of my country. I hear Saudi Arabia is nice for those sorts of things.

They really don't need vigilante justice in Arabia. The government there actually CARRIES OUT THE DEATH PENALTY ON A TIMELY BASIS.

And yes, a child molester in Arabia would be beheaded in short time. They don't play over there.

But as usual, America can't figure out what it wants to do. It hasn't fully decided or dedicated itself to rehabilitating sex offenders, or locking them up, and so far it's done a fairly shiatty job of both.

You guys can piss all night over whether the death penalty is wrong or right. I really don't care either way. The only thing I expect from our judicial system is to pick a course based on common sense and justice and to actually - for once - IMPLEMENT IT in the CORRECT MANNER toward achieving a USEFUL END. And by "useful," I mean in a way that can be directly related with a reduction in crime.

As far as this guy goes, his heart was in the right place, but he didn't choose the best way to deal with it.
 
2004-12-06 06:05:35 AM

As far as this guy goes, his heart was in the right place.


The Gambinos would like to have a word with both of you. That's the kind of honor they specialize in.
 
2004-12-06 06:23:13 AM
So, the question seems to be, is paedophilia worse than murder? Is doing something that could potentially ruin a life worse than doing something that ends a life? Could it be argued that any serious crime could ruin a life, or is this sort of thing reserved for sex-crime? Interesting dilemma, especially when you cross-refer public opinion with the abortion issue. Where does the sanctity of human life stand then? If a life can be held to be so sacred that it should be protected even before birth, at what point and age does a person forfeit that right?

There's no way I'm going to admit to even fully understanding the questions, let alone claim to have the answers, but seems to me that if you say, at any point, 'this person no longer deserves to live because of what they've done', the door is thrown wide open to questions like these, and I'm buggered if there's anyone in the world I trust to come up with a definitive answer. An answer (not THE answer), therefore, would seem to be not to make that decision for anyone, and let everyone live. Not a particularly satisfying answer for the victims, but at least it's clear where the line is drawn.
 
2004-12-06 06:25:03 AM
1) If you think vigilante justice is a good idea, you're an asshat.

2) Dunno about other states, but in Tennessee, they list prostitutes in the Sexual Offender Registry, and include a photo, and address. Thanks, guys!

3) Among the crimes they list is "Aggravated Prostitution". Sex with an aggravated prostitute does not sound like much fun.
 
2004-12-06 06:54:22 AM
"If bin Laden moved into the house next door, wouldn't we tell people about that?" Trant asked.

Um....
 
2004-12-06 07:00:35 AM
kill the bastidges......of you are going to attack/rape a child you deserve to die
 
2004-12-06 07:26:28 AM
I am not a fan of vigilante justice.

I am a fan, however, of the death penalty for child molester/rapists.

They are not able to be rehabilitated.
They must be exterminated for the greater good of society.

Except for the hot blonde chick with the middle school kids in the SUV... she needs to serve 10-20 years... hard labor... in my bedroom.
 
2004-12-06 07:37:43 AM
He should've started with Michael Jackson, Pete Townshend and Roman Polanski.

I'll give you Jackson and Polanski... but leave Pete alone!
 
2004-12-06 08:16:37 AM
So, the question seems to be, is paedophilia worse than murder?

No, the question is "does finding someone's name on a list of 'sex offenders' give you the right to commit assault, battery, arson, attempted murder, or actual first-degree murder?"

Whether you equate "sex offender" with "paedophile" or whether you think the death penalty is appropriate for child rapists are secondary matters.
 
2004-12-06 08:17:34 AM
A good pedophile is a dead pedophile. Sounds like he's a Boondock Saint of pedophilia.
 
2004-12-06 08:43:07 AM
Someone posted on this earlier, but as this thread is dying, its worth noting again:

The registry lists 93 names for Concord, including 10 people who live at a building on North Main Street. There, in April 2003, Trant lit newspapers outside the apartment door of one of the convicted sex offenders. Located directly across from the state Capitol, the building also houses the headquarters of the state Republican Party, as well as an adjacent shop for lingerie and sex toys.

Really... coincidence? I think not.
 
2004-12-06 09:05:31 AM
Why's there a "Scary" tag. Is the submitter a pedo?

I think it's great. Touch a little boy or girl or someone against their will, get farked up or killed. Beat your dick before you go out if you can't control it.
 
2004-12-06 09:14:27 AM
Actually, it is a mistaken belief that individuals who molest were molested. The actual percentage is lower, like a third, I think, maybe even 25%.

I had a boyfriend who specialized in juvie sex offense. We are both mental health professionals. One major reason why he and I broke up was because he thinks Megan's Law is a crock of shiat and is "unfair" to the molesters. I thought if he thought such a thing that he was a crock of shiat and was throwing victims to the wolves.

Yeah, we're not together anymore.
 
2004-12-06 10:03:13 AM
A bit late, but once again:

pedophilia != child molesting

One is a thought, the other an action.
 
2004-12-06 10:22:20 AM
It's too bad we don't have more people like this. We have a registered sex offender that lives next door to where we live. And I don't give a f*ck about his rights.
 
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