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(MSNBC) NewsFlash Dan Rather to step down. Reportedly "mad as hell" and "not going to take it anymore"   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 792
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33798 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Nov 2004 at 12:41 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2004-11-23 06:09:47 PM


God, it's perfect.
 
2004-11-23 06:11:02 PM
Ali M, who is 'somebody else?' It's just weird thinking. America -is- that somebody else right now. There's no sensical way to conclude to just step down. Fundamentally what would that mean? What if America just closed all it's military bases in the world, completely withdrew back to it's own borders and stated as international policy "Umm, ok, your on your own now."

Do you think that'd lead to more peace? It'd make what marginalized terrorist activity we have now seem like a total cakewalk. Replace a few bombs going off here and there with massive wide spread military invasion throughout the world.

Do you think that without the umbrella of American military might hovering over Europe you'd have been able to move past the constant waring? If we were so ultimately imperialistic and dominating, why didn't we just take over? While the USA isn't perfect, if you look at what european nations historically have done when they had superior military power compared to USA, you'd think never in the history of man has anybody ever so massively respected a nation's sovereign status.
 
2004-11-23 06:11:23 PM
pontechango

Hidden Prisons: U.S. Maintaining Global Network of Secret Detention Facilities

I actually saw some of them. I got Half-Life 2 and they're all over. The (unwritten) premise of the game is that Rendell is President and Hillary is the National Security czar.

And everything looks like Philadelphia.
 
2004-11-23 06:12:31 PM
Garbage in, garbage out.
 
2004-11-23 06:15:05 PM
pontechango

US torture flights stopped at Shannon

Is that the flight where we were beheading them?
 
2004-11-23 06:15:25 PM
dubdub
VideoVader: "I don't see the US government throwing people into gulags."
no need to. you got Guantanamo Bay.


Yeah, Guantanamo Bay is exactly like the gulags. Imprisoning foreign illegal fighters captured on the battlefield is exactly like enslaving your own nation's citizens to prop up a failed economy with cheap labor.

oh. and isn't 1 in 10 African-American men in their mid- to late 20s are behind bars?
don't you also have the biggest prison population and percentage in the world?


Now you're just throwing in any anti-American cheap shot you can. Are you honestly trying to get into a pissing match over whose country is better?

Regarding the race issue, when your country's population is composed of more ethnic backgrounds than just about any other on the planet, and you go through as huge a civil rights transformation as we have, there are going to be some lingering ill effects that even the civil rights movement could not immediately correct. One of them is the fact that even as we're trying to level the playing field for all ethnicities which were previously stepped on, a disproportionate number of minorities (black, Latino, etc.) still live in poverty, and those in poverty are statistically more likely to wind up in prison. We Americans are trying to solve these problems with proper policy, but you can't just say that the racial inequalities are a result of some inherent flaw in our country when there are so many lingering effects from past flaws (i.e. institutionalized racism) which we have since largely corrected.

If, as your profile indicates, you live in Denmark, then your country would have had to worry about hardly any of this because your population is almost entirely Danish, and about 95+% even follow the same religion. And if you're going to carp about flaws in our country regarding ethnic minorities, you might want to focus on Denmark's recent trouble with violence among immigrants.

The article I cite highlights the Muslim element a bit much, I think, but the links on the page itself are useful if you want to ignore the commentary.
 
2004-11-23 06:18:12 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62801-2004Oct25.html

The CIA's Disappeared

Tuesday, October 26, 2004

THE BUSH administration pretends, and many Americans may believe, that the abuse of U.S.-held prisoners abroad ended after the release of sensational photographs from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Sadly, it did not. While blaming the crimes at Abu Ghraib on a small group of low-ranking soldiers, the White House, the Pentagon and the CIA have fought to preserve the exceptional and sometimes secret policies that allow U.S. personnel to violate the Geneva Conventions and other laws governing the handling and interrogation of foreign detainees. Under those policies, practices at odds with basic American values continue -- even if there are no sensational photos to document them.

The latest example concerns "ghost prisoners," suspects captured in Iraq and Afghanistan who are interrogated by the CIA in secret locations, sometimes outside those countries, and whose identities and locations are withheld from relatives, the International Red Cross and even Congress. For all practical purposes, they have "disappeared," like the domestic detainees of some notorious dictatorships. The first official Army investigation into the abuses at Abu Ghraib called this practice "deceptive, contrary to Army doctrine and in violation of international law." Yet, according to reporting by The Post's Dana Priest, the CIA subsequently transported as many as a dozen more "ghost detainees" out of Iraq to interrogate them in its secret prisons.

The Geneva Conventions, which the administration says it is following in Iraq, require the registration of all detainees with the Red Cross. They also prohibit "forcible transfers as well as deportations" of individuals, and ban all "physical or moral coercion . . . in particular to obtain information." To get around these rather clear-cut standards, the CIA seems to be relying once again on secret legal opinions whose conclusions -- once they leak out -- are disputed by nearly every authority other than Mr. Bush's political appointees. One, submitted to White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales on March 18, is titled "Protected Persons in Occupied Iraq"; it argues that certain people captured there may be excluded from the conventions -- an interpretation at odds with that of the Red Cross. Another draft memo, drawn up by the Justice Department around the same time but never formally issued, argues that even "protected persons" may be taken out of Iraq and interrogated "for a brief but not indefinite period."

It's not clear what legal standards the CIA is using for its ghost prisoners, because it refuses to explain the standards even to the congressional committees charged with oversight, much less to the public. What ought to be clear, however, is that the practice of holding detainees incommunicado in secret prisons without any outside oversight violates basic standards of human rights. A number of members of Congress, including several Republican senators, have expressed outrage about the ghost detainees and have promised to investigate; to date they have not done so. Now would be a good time to start.
 
2004-11-23 06:18:52 PM
vhold

There's no sensical way to conclude to just step down

That's not what I'm saying. I don't want a power vacuum. I want power sharing. I'll admit I don't know exactly how this will work, but it is evident to me that there is no feasable alternative. If, having tought about it, you can't see the sense in this then there is no point in me talking to you.
 
2004-11-23 06:19:53 PM
 
2004-11-23 06:22:43 PM
Tinian

Is that the flight where we were beheading them?


Why does "beheading" elicit so much emotional power over you when compared to words like "bombing" and "shooting"? They're equally gruesome in my book.
 
2004-11-23 06:23:14 PM
Jesus dan.. don't you have enough money yet? The INSTANT I have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life, I'm OUT. 73 and still working every day.. what a load of crap.
 
2004-11-23 06:24:42 PM
The Int'l Red Cross is full of tin foil hats.

Nah, just your usual collection of corrupt bastards.

Dozhdbog - card should be black, creature type 'zombie' and have regeneration. If you're gonna go with green, include trample and 'summon squirel tokens'.

Just sayin' is all. If you're gonna do it, do it right. And if you really want to do it right, use Vampire cards, not tired old MTG blanks.
 
2004-11-23 06:25:26 PM
Additional flavor text should read '...and I meant to close my damn bold tag!'
 
2004-11-23 06:32:53 PM
Kudos to the submitter. Our one hilarious headline for the week.
 
2004-11-23 06:33:06 PM
French prison torture?

'It starts off by being stripped naked in front of 10 police officers including two women, gratutious humiliation is used to break you down.' '... worst jail that you can possibly imagine.' 'Not even a hole to go to the bathroom. You have to piss against a wall and you sleep in piss on the concrete floor.' The torture victim demands 'the immediate shutdown of this secret underground prison'. It's not at Abu Ghraib, it's in Marseille, France.

The above link sends you to the aforementioned commentary regarding this article, which unfortunately is no longer available for free, so I have to settle for the summary. Otherwise, you could just plug the second URL into Babelfish. Does anybody have access to the liberation.fr site?

BTW, pontechango, how do you shift paragraph margins like that? I've tried it on Fark myself, but I can't get it to work.
 
2004-11-23 06:37:09 PM
Dan Rather will still work as a CBS correspondent, because he's an OK guy in small doses.

/Hugh Downs awaaaaaay!

JR
 
2004-11-23 06:38:45 PM
Weaver95
Dozhdbog - card should be black, creature type 'zombie' and have regeneration. If you're gonna go with green, include trample and 'summon squirel tokens'.


I didn't make it, I don't play magic, and it is nonetheless perfect.
 
2004-11-23 06:40:48 PM
pontechango
Why does "beheading" elicit so much emotional power over you when compared to words like "bombing" and "shooting"? They're equally gruesome in my book.


You can talk about the more personal nature of killing somebody with a knife as opposed to shooting someone from a distance, but you'd be getting off track because you'd be drawing the wrong comparison. The US, the insurgents, and the terrorists (latter two kinda blend) all "bomb" and "shoot" their enemies (strategies vary, though). The reason beheading is brought up is to draw a contrast between that and Abu Ghraib; i.e. "having underwear pulled over your head" vs. "getting your head chopped off." This contrast was originally brought into play in discussions regarding how the media focused so much more on Abu Ghraib than on the murder of Nick Berg and others. Both were worthy of reporting, yet one was viewed as much more of a horrific spectacle than the other, and in the wrong order.

Case in point:

 
2004-11-23 06:42:56 PM
Pretty sad. In a day when the most popular cable news station (Fox) is so obviously bias the idiot Republicans here in the thread and in America think it's funny and spectacular that this man who has worked his whole life as a newsman is leaving his job possibly over the memo thing. You classless fools ought to be ashamed of yourselfs. Let me know when you retire so I can come and pee on your career (which I am sure is totally lacking any mistakes). Anybody who cares to know it knows that Bush went missing and did not fufill his Guard duties, choose to ignore that if you want, but it's pretty clear. Regardless of what happened to Rather most of you don't have half the class he does.
 
2004-11-23 06:43:27 PM
Waitasecond. How the hell did we wind up talking about Abu Ghraib? This is a Memogate thread!



There we go!
 
2004-11-23 06:44:40 PM
VideoVader

<blockquote>blah blah</blockquote>

Btw, here's an old issue that we need to settle. I'd like to submit this link for a Total Fark discussion but can't spend time on it right now. Maybe tomorrow?
 
2004-11-23 06:50:06 PM
and it is nonetheless perfect

Nope, not without 'regeneration'. And your mana costs are wrong.
 
2004-11-23 06:50:28 PM
VideoVader, the simple reason that Abu Gharib is so much more important then the beheading is simple. We -expect- them to do stuff like behead people, because 'them' could be virtually anybody, not neccesarily a particularly organized body. We do -not- expect that the United States military would condone cruel and unusual punishment like this, it's -extremely- strange.

Their message is clear: "Get out, or we behead you." There isn't too much story left after you've established that. Our message is contradictory: "We are here to get rid of the evil oppressors, by the way, we'll act like evil oppressors if we capture you." There is a huge amount of potential conspiracy and backstory there to investigate. It's quite natural it got way more attention. I wasn't even anti-war and that was blatantly obvious to me.
 
2004-11-23 06:50:44 PM
04-11-23 12:48:13 PM moops

Dan Rather's mistake was not factchecking the Bush National Job memos. Now if he had instead unearthed forged documents about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which the Bush administation did several times, he would be a conservative here.

I make a very special drink called STFU and I'd like to offer you one free of charge. Enjoy.
 
2004-11-23 06:51:24 PM
ali m

You are welcome to it. Believe me when I say the average American would gladly turn over all the "policing" duties to your country (for example) withdraw all troops from bases around the world, and cut off foreign aid.

So, start lobbying your leaders to take the reigns. We'll get isolationist and leave the rest of the planet to you.
 
2004-11-23 06:53:04 PM
Anybody who cares to know it knows that Bush went missing and did not fufill his Guard duties, choose to ignore that if you want, but it's pretty clear.

Then why not go the extra mile to double check your facts and make sure you aren't being suckered in by someone? That's what you do when you're a journalist - put out the facts of the story. Rather let his personal bias override his professional integrity and it cost him his job.

As it should have.
 
2004-11-23 06:53:40 PM
pontechango
Btw, here's an old issue that we need to settle. I'd like to submit this link for a Total Fark discussion but can't spend time on it right now. Maybe tomorrow?

Excellent article.
You know it will never get greenlit, although I have no idea how totalfark discussion works.

2004-11-23 06:50:06 PM Weaver95
Nope, not without 'regeneration'. And your mana costs are wrong.

This is amazing. The more you argue, the more my point is proved at just how perfect it is.
And I still didn't make it. That hasn't changed since last post.
 
2004-11-23 06:54:08 PM
Today's Irony post brought to you by widespot
 
2004-11-23 06:57:18 PM
The more you argue, the more my point is proved at just how perfect it is.

Yeah - you don't play the game, don't understand the rules and stole the image from someone else. When told how badly you farked up the obvious, you attack the person who corrected your mistakes and call them names.

Yep - it's a perfect illustration of the situation all right.
 
2004-11-23 06:57:27 PM
Then why not go the extra mile to double check your facts and make sure you aren't being suckered in by someone? That's what you do when you're a journalist - put out the facts of the story. Rather let his personal bias override his professional integrity and it cost him his job.

As it should have.


Not saying Bush hasn't done a good job of covering it up, and if you think that having no bias is still a requirement for being a "journalist" is this country you may need to wake up.
 
2004-11-23 06:57:53 PM
Dozhdbog

You know it will never get greenlit, although I have no idea how totalfark discussion works.


Totalfark gives you access to all the submissions.
 
2004-11-23 07:01:56 PM
2004-11-23 01:02:42 PM dolphins_just_left

Voltaire, where else do you see photos of leaders being displayed on billboards? North Korea, China, USSR, Saddam's Iraq? And now the US. If the shoe fits...

I assume you initially planning on making a point, but then you had a craving for some munchies and just kind of trailed off?

The U.S. does have some freedom related issues, true, but we recovered from Japanese internment camps in WWII and...
 
2004-11-23 07:02:04 PM
Weaver95


The more you argue, the more my point is proved at just how perfect it is.

Yeah - you don't play the game, don't understand the rules and stole the image from someone else. When told how badly you farked up the obvious, you attack the person who corrected your mistakes and call them names.

1. I never said I don't understand the rules.
2. It's perfectly fine to post someone else's image -you do it all the time, hypocrite.
3. I didn't fark up at all, nor did the person who actually made it. You did for attempting to "correct" me though.
4. It is so farking perfect at this point, I am about to cry...

Yep - it's a perfect illustration of the situation all right.
Oh God, I am so loving this... This couldn't have gone more beautifully.
Thank you Weaver, and god bless your wee brain.
 
2004-11-23 07:05:42 PM
Not saying Bush hasn't done a good job of covering it up,...

So, you're sticking to the theory that despite no evidence and faked memo's that the story is true? And it's true because there's no proof to support it?

Hmm....


and if you think that having no bias is still a requirement for being a "journalist" is this country you may need to wake up.

Rather let his bias blind him from doing his job properly. Hell - Michael Moore knew enough to pass on these memos. Rather, with his decades of experience in exactly this sort of situation, didn't even stop to think it over and do some double checking on his sources. So, either The Dan was utterly incompetent (in which case he deserves to be fired) or The Dan wanted to stick it to Bush so badly that he took the memos on blind faith and didn't double check his facts (in which case he deserves to be fired).

Incompetent or partisan asshat. Hell of a choice.
 
2004-11-23 07:06:41 PM
It is so farking perfect at this point, I am about to cry...

Yeah, I did nail you pretty good. Sorry, but you made it so easy...
 
2004-11-23 07:10:54 PM
Weaver95
Yeah, I did nail you pretty good.

Yep. Nailed me like Morbier pounded against a 12d terrycloth nail.

Sorry, but you made it so easy...
I aimed to make it easy, Troll, but you have yet to figure out the game, let alone make an appropriate pithy mot.
 
2004-11-23 07:11:21 PM
VideoVader

time and time again i hear how the media focused on abu ghraib. and brilliantly enough you then post the 60 minutes logo nice and big....

this logo in fact



and so to my point..

the facts seem to me that the media has gone easy on abu ghraib, despite yours and others claims to the contrary.

i know much has been made of a handful of photos, but so little has been made of the other allegations as to be laughable. further, why did 60 minutes delay the expose of abu ghraib for two weeks? if 60 mintues is busted, it was busted long ago by rumsfeld and friends.

for you, or anyone, to claim the media has an agenda in its coverage of abu ghraib, is to deny the facts. there has been no real media-led pressure on the government to come clean about what actually happened in the prison while it was under us control. none. at. all. so, by the looks of it, they aren't going to (investigation or not)
 
2004-11-23 07:12:34 PM
Nailed me like Morbier pounded against a 12d terrycloth nail.

You're gamer-fu is weak....

I aimed to make it easy, Troll, but you have yet to figure out the game, let alone make an appropriate pithy mot.

Heheh...game set and match.

Weaver95 - flawless victory.
 
2004-11-23 07:19:16 PM
Weaver95
You're gamer-fu is weak....

No, I am Dozhdbog. "Is" seems a rather odd middle name though, don't you think?

Heheh...game set and match.
Translation: Heheh... I wish I knew what the hell was going on, but since I don't I will admit I am an idiot and consider myeslf the king of idiots by stating the below.

Weaver95 - flawless victory.
Indeed. When pummelling yourself, you can only win, right?
...Right?
 
2004-11-23 07:21:17 PM
Weaver95

one of the reasons you and others believe in bush is because he is "tough". how will you react, what action will you demand what will placate you, if, (not when, but if) there is another major terrorist attack on us soil. you must have thought of the matter, if you considered bush the stronger choice, you must've considered why, you must've considered beyond flip-flopper, liberal, etc
 
2004-11-23 07:31:54 PM


/now watch this drive.
 
B82
2004-11-23 07:32:02 PM
I nominate Laurie Dhue!!

/I'm Dan Rather and I approve this message. Kinda. Sorta. Not really
 
2004-11-23 07:33:02 PM
I'm Dan Rather Biatch!
 
2004-11-23 07:34:27 PM
vhold
VideoVader, the simple reason that Abu Gharib is so much more important then the beheading is simple. We -expect- them to do stuff like behead people, because 'them' could be virtually anybody, not neccesarily a particularly organized body. We do -not- expect that the United States military would condone cruel and unusual punishment like this, it's -extremely- strange.


True, but you're forgetting something. As soulless as we've seen terrorists act before, the beheading bit was something new, especially since it was the start of a new strategic/propagandic offensive against the US that a lot of us didn't expect, either. Not as unexpected as Abu Ghraib, true, but new enough to warrant more coverage than it got in some quarters.

The Abu Ghraib coverage was undoubtedly going to get additional coverage from not only the unexpectedness of the situation but also the televised hearings and the investigation which were unique to that story. However, the DEGREE to which the coverage differed was striking. The New York Times in particular ran an almost non-stop string of front-page stories on Abu Ghraib for a month and a half, sometimes even if there was no new info revealed that day. The coverage on the terrorists beheadings wasn't even close.


pontechango

Okay, lemme try this out here.
See if this works.


Killer! Thanks man!

Btw, here's an old issue that we need to settle. I'd like to submit this link for a Total Fark discussion but can't spend time on it right now.

You're still focused on this? Okay, I'll take a look at your link...

Okay, while I've already concurred that the study could put the final figure anywhere from 8,000 to 196,000, I'm still skeptical of the interval of the probability graph defined by the confidence level. Is the curve very steep within this interval (i.e. is the center value much more likely than the values on either end), or is it pretty flat (i.e. all values close-to-equally likely)? I didn't see such a mention in the study. Did I miss something?

Second, regarding the cluster method, the problem cited wasn't with the method itself but with the borrowing of parts of samples from nearby clusters if the sample size for one cluster proved too small for analysis.

Finally, the article you cite takes a bit of a cheap shot in wondering out loud why there was no possibility that the war made the situation in Iraq better. Of COURSE the death rate will be higher than normal so long as there is fighting going on, and you can thank the insurgents and terrorists for a big part of that.

Maybe tomorrow?

Sorry, but I don't think I can.
1. I'll be traveling most of the day.
2. With my real life going on outside of Fark, I'm getting kinda tired of talking about math as my head is starting to hurt. >_<

I'd recommend that you reconsider citing the 100,000 estimate as fact because the amount of unavoidable problems and uncertainty inherent to the study. If you do cite it, at least be accurate with the presentation and state it as a probability spread.

Guuhhhh...head hurting from math...need...nonsense. Need...FISH-SLAPPING DANCE!



Ah, much better!

/Is it okay to nick your pic? I'm hosting it m'self. Thanks.
 
2004-11-23 07:38:02 PM
This thread is a perfect example of how America is desperately seeking a scapegoat to sacrifice to the gods...

So many comments...

...about a stupid inconsequential anchorman.

Admit it. You'd like to lynch him publicly. On his show, no less.
 
2004-11-23 07:41:27 PM
whidbey

Nope. Couldn't care less. No lynching necessary. Some old guy retires. Woo.

Now, if you read the thread, you'd know the majority was the same ol' same ol', and not about Dan Rather.

Oh, and the scapegoat was the goat that was intentionally freed and allowed to wander off, not the one sacrificed to any gods.
 
2004-11-23 07:54:20 PM
21-7-b
the facts seem to me that the media has gone easy on abu ghraib, despite yours and others claims to the contrary.

i know much has been made of a handful of photos, but so little has been made of the other allegations as to be laughable.


It's called hammering home the most effective point to give it that much more weight and make it stick in the public's mind. Why do you think both presidential candidates used single-issue buzzwords so often even when there were many other issues on the table? Same idea.

further, why did 60 minutes delay the expose of abu ghraib for two weeks?

The military brass asked them to delay the broadcast until they could prepare for the effects on the battlefield (i.e. terrorists and insurgents mounting vengeance attacks). This makes sense because they would still be able to get the truth out while minimizing the danger to the troops. In return, the Defense Dept. cooperated with CBS on the story.

But don't take my word for it. Check the CBS article itself with this nugget at the end:

Two weeks before this story was first broadcast, 60 Minutes II received an appeal from the Defense Department, and eventually from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, to delay this broadcast -- given the danger and tension on the ground in Iraq.

60 Minutes II decided to honor that request, while pressing for the Defense Department to add its perspective to the incidents at Abu Ghraib prison. With the photos beginning to circulate elsewhere, and with other journalists about to publish their versions of the story, the Defense Department agreed to cooperate in our report.


if 60 mintues is busted, it was busted long ago by rumsfeld and friends.

I give 60 minutes credit for cooperating with the DOD for the sake of our troops, but to label this as political cronyism is ridiculous. If they were Republican cronies, then explain Memogate, where there was no visible motive other than sticking it to Bush and later covering their own asses.

for you, or anyone, to claim the media has an agenda in its coverage of abu ghraib, is to deny the facts.

What, that outlets like the NYT kept hammering the story on the front pages? All your 60 Minutes example proves is that not every outlet had as harsh an agenda as the others, and that was only at the very beginning of the investigation when there were still ethical questions to consider regarding its release. You can't use one example in one time at one place to assert lack of existence entirely.

there has been no real media-led pressure on the government to come clean about what actually happened in the prison while it was under us control. none. at. all. so, by the looks of it, they aren't going to (investigation or not)

Every major news outlet in the country covered the investigations with front-page stories aplenty (hint: NYT again), and you don't consider that this applied any pressure on the Defense Department?

Also, from the aforelinked CBS article:

60 Minutes II decided to honor that request, while pressing for the Defense Department to add its perspective to the incidents at Abu Ghraib prison.


Translation: We'll keep a lid on the story until the troops prepare, but you'd better tell us what happened.
 
2004-11-23 07:56:46 PM
GREAT QUESTION:

what action will you demand what will placate you, if, (not when, but if) there is another major terrorist attack on us soil?

I mean, what would we do if something horrible were to happen here again? We're already at war, what more will be asked for?
 
2004-11-23 08:17:13 PM
Why do you think both presidential candidates used single-issue buzzwords so often even when there were many other issues on the table?

we both know that bush is capable of that only at a stretch, and he certainly isn't capable of much more

If they were Republican cronies, then explain Memogate

i'm not suggesting they were, i'm providing a balance.

What, that outlets like the NYT kept hammering the story on the front pages?

i think there is a difference between running sensationalist images, and demanding a full investigation. there has not been consistent pressure from any mainstream press outlet into what has gone on. the whole thing is neatly wrapped up in the "don't criticize the troops" blanket. with the exception of one or two soldiers, there has been no concerted naming and shaming. there has been no hard, sustained, pressure on the leaders, from rumsfeld down, to resign. the press has let these people off the hook, has allowed the excuses, and has not effectively demanded any change. show me where they have.

sure there's been condemnation about ms england, but there has been no hardcore pressure on rumsfeld, maybe for a day here or a day there. but that is no evidence of the press hammering anyone. they'll sell as many papers as they can by hammering the story, but it doesn't mean they're being tough about it. fox has hammered any number of iraq mistakes, doesn't mean they're being tough on the mistakes themselves. they're just selling them, with their own editorial spin

Translation: We'll keep a lid on the story until the troops prepare, but you'd better tell us what happened.

they didn't, they didn't come clean
 
2004-11-23 08:37:05 PM
2004-11-23 06:32:53 PM wunnuy

*blush*
 
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