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(Washington Post)   Bush wants knowledge of WTC out of public eye.   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 176
    More: Stupid  
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9283 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2002 at 10:23 PM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-02-24 02:13:35 AM
wow... I'm reading it shockingelk
 
2002-02-24 02:15:12 AM
copied from that post:


I do believe that the result of a large airliner hitting a large modern building would be much closer to the EL AL incident than the B25 incident in '43. The 757/767 etc. would be much faster and heavier than the B25 so I wouldn't be too optimistic that the Empire State would survive either.

Hopefully, we'll never have to find out.
 
2002-02-24 02:16:03 AM
more

Username: Tom2katie
Posted 2000-11-30 20:30:48 and read 92050 times.
You people need a hobby. Can we find something a little less morbid to fantasize about?
 
2002-02-24 02:18:37 AM
Username: Airafrique
Posted 2000-11-30 22:37:57 and read 91335 times.
um,mmm.... this is more from that site:

I am working in downtown New-York at the world trade center and when somebody is in the observation deck of the world trade center you see plane on approach to Laguardia aiport not far away from the building.Sometime you think that the plane is coming to hit the building.
And for your information planes do fly over Manhattan and I always think what if a pilote crashes a plane on us
 
2002-02-24 02:23:15 AM
does no one else find this weird???? God I must be such a hick
 
2002-02-24 02:31:14 AM
Yeah, it's real weird ... makes you wonder if it was one of the terrorists ... the timing seems to be right - they learned to fly the following winter.
 
2002-02-24 02:33:21 AM
Bush wants knowledge...

Damn... when I read those first three words, there was a momentary glimmer of hope.
 
2002-02-24 02:33:34 AM
Actually, I did read that conversation some time back....I think it was posted at Weird Links, but I completely forgot about it. Thanks ShockingElk.
I have an entire article about how the highjackers bended the laws of physics that's pretty interesting. Will see if I can find it.
 
2002-02-24 03:41:13 AM
The reason they were discussing this is because they probably just saw the special on the History Channel about the WTC that speculated on such an occurance.
 
2002-02-24 04:00:30 AM
OK, enough with saying "Oh, lookit the Empire State Building, it got hit by a plane and survived"

That B-25 was hardly larger than the Cessna that loser teenager crashed in Tampa.

B-25
Maximum speed 322 mph at 15,000 feet. Service ceiling 30,000 feet, range 2000 miles with 3000 pounds of bombs.
Weights:
17,258 pounds empty, 28,557 pounds maximum. Two forward wing fuel tanks, total 484 gallons. Two rear wing tanks total 432 gallons. One droppable bomb bay tank, 420 gallons (meaning, if that plane took off with all tanks filled and made a beeline straight for the ESB, it would have 484+432+420, or 1336 gallons of fuel on board. Suffice to say, it didn't, so there was probably a lot less. Probably less than 1,000 gallons on board.)

Boeing 767
Empty weight: 176,000 lbs The point: an EMPTY, no fuel, no luggage, no passengers 767 weighs 6 times as much as a FULL B-25. And that 767 was not empty, my friend...)
Max fuel capacity 23,980 gal (1,000 gallons of fuel? With that much fuel on board, a 767 is sucking on vapor at 1/24th full.)
and the two planes hit the towers HOW fast?
The government's calculations put the speed of the first plane at 494 mph, and the second at 586 mph. The MIT analysis determined the first plane was traveling 429 mph, and the second 537 mph, The Times said.

So STOP bringing up the ESB and the B-25 that hit it, it's not relevant!
Now, show me a building that got hit with a B-52, and I'd be impressed.
 
2002-02-24 04:34:09 AM
Heheheheh, he said "noob" and that rhymes with "boob"

ie
 
2002-02-24 04:35:52 AM
That's right, folks. Shut up, stop asking questions, and go back to work. Like Mister President says, if we don't get back to our routine daily lives immediately, the terrorists have won. Don't look too deeply into this, trust your government to give you all the answers, and don't for a second think the situation could be any different than the story the mainstream media spoonfeeds you every day. And if you do ask too many questions, you'll get labeled "Anti-American," and get laughed at like all those wacky conspiracy theorists.

Of course there's nothing more to it. We already told you. Now go back to work.
 
2002-02-24 06:01:27 AM
Anything made public can be read by terrorists.

Any questions?
 
2002-02-24 06:20:38 AM
I haven't been in country since before the attack on the WTC so I am a bit out of touch with the cultural change that has occurred since then. However, judging from what I can get online, America is being led down a very dangerous path by a man who is, at best, a mediocre mind.

This administration has pressed an extreme political agenda(whether you agree with it or not) while calling for political unity, has proposed an energy policy that only benefits energy companies, and is pursuing an economic policy that was proven a failure 20 years ago (those of you old enough will remember that Stockton, the author of supply-side economics, admitted that supply-side economics was "voodoo economics" and had no validity whatsoever).

On the civil rights front, Bush's Justice department, led by a man who is admittedly a staunch supporter of the radical christian right, has been given more power to pry into citizens' lives than ever before. Offended by the sight of art which depicts the beauty of Justice, Ashcroft has been only marginally successful at capturing terrorists (especially when compared to Europe) but quite successful at hiding its activities from the public eye.

This man Bush is not a friend to the common American. He is a failed businessman and the spoiled son of an elite family. He does not have the mental capacity to be creative or insightful in complicated circumstances and thus has to rely on his advisors, men and women were not elected and who represent the most radical conservative band on the political spectrum. Democrat and Republican alike, he leading the country into increasingly dangerous waters at home and abroad.

He was elected under what can only be described as dubious conditions and He should be watched and his actions carefully assessed by the other branches of government and the American People. Anytime a President demands secrecy, it should prick the ears of those who allow him or her to govern. Especially this man.
 
2002-02-24 06:27:29 AM
Billyblazer these attacks were planned and put into place before Bush got into office.

Just FYI

And no, I'm not defending the man, it's just fact.
 
2002-02-24 08:21:01 AM
International communist conspiracy?

How we laughed.

Anyone seem by Black Helicopter BTW? I lost it at the illuminati baby eating party last night (you know what those UN guys are like!)
 
2002-02-24 09:01:55 AM
Astrocat

Don't forget that your weekend furlough ends at 5pm today. You must be back at the "hospital" on time or you will not be considered for future weekends off "campus."

This isn't that complicated, or nefarious. Hearings on intelligence failures ought to be held by the Intelligence Committee(s), and in secret. What can safely be released publicly, will be. What can't, won't. The check on keeping things secret that are only politically embarrassing, rather than risky to national security, is the bipartisan make-up of the Committee(s).

I know that this will not satisfy Astrocat, Shadowman, Cow Song & Code Arch, but it should satisy the sane.
 
2002-02-24 11:22:50 AM
holy shiat! the world trade center collasped, when was this?!
 
2002-02-24 12:17:25 PM
You Farking hysterical idiots!
GWB is concerned about the draw on resources/manpower in these investigations and NOT the uncovering of some clandestine operation!
 
2002-02-24 12:52:52 PM
Shadowman, I don't care if you want to be a conspiracy theorist, that's your business.. but don't be an plagiarist. Passing off the words of someone else as your own is the height of intellectual dishonesty, and doesn't speak well for your cause. And to think, I was going to give you credit for mentioning that there are two black boxes on a plane, something most people don't know...

For those who care, here's where Shadowman's response to me came from:

http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wot/home_run.htm

Read up on it, and you'll probably know just as much on the subject as the great Shadowman himself!
 
2002-02-24 01:11:41 PM
02-24-02 09:01:55 AM HappyDaddy
"Astrocat: Don't forget that your weekend furlough ends at 5pm today. I know that this will not satisfy Astrocat, Shadowman, Cow Song & Code Arch, but it should satisy the sane."

HappyDaddy: Why is it that anytime someone asks questions or presents viewpoints that might reflect unfavorably on the so-called "integrity" of the people running this counrty - you pop in and do a hit and run with your negative remarks and insinuations?

Talk about the kettle calling the pot black - I think some one needs to look into your sanity!

You seem to have a very strong emotional need to conduct character assasination attacts on anyone who does not share your perspective.

Are you capable of defending your point of view without discrediting others in the process? Or is discrediting others part of the process of defending your point of view?

I have no problems with your point of view. My problem is with your negative attacks about the sanity of anyone who disagrees with your point of view.

That calls YOUR sanity, motives, and integrity into question.
 
2002-02-24 01:25:06 PM
Astrocat

Read the second paragraph of my earlier post. You see, I can combine the making of my own point with attacking your sanity.

Tick tock - shouldn't you be packing you farking nutjob?
 
2002-02-24 01:40:14 PM
"Tick tock - shouldn't you be packing you farking nutjob?"

HappyDaddy: As I suspected. This proves you you are incapable of making a point with out attacking others.
 
2002-02-24 01:41:41 PM
Washington Post = leftist media
 
2002-02-24 01:54:23 PM
Damn straight, ZigNig. They'd better watch what they publish or they'll get their other tit caught in a wringer.
 
2002-02-24 02:00:05 PM
02-24-02 01:11:41 PM Astrocat
"Why is it that anytime someone asks questions or presents viewpoints that might reflect unfavorably on the so-called "integrity" of the people running this counrty - you pop in and do a hit and run with your negative remarks and insinuations? "

Maybe because it seems that people like you are amenable ONLY to viewpoints that might reflect unfavorably on this administration?

My 2¢ ... have a nice day!
 
2002-02-24 02:28:42 PM
Astrocat

Wrong again thorazine breath. It proves that I can BOTH make my point and make fun of the delusionally paranoid.

Two, two mints in one!
 
2002-02-24 02:40:50 PM
The administration caused 9/11? Remote-controlled jetliners to do it? Why didn't we down the planes? Negotiations ended poorly in August? Why don't the American people get all the information dealing with intelligence matters?

I can't believe I used to waste my time typing arguments with any of you liberal nutjobs.
 
2002-02-24 02:54:28 PM
HappyDaddy, you're the worst kind. The only point you have is on the top of your head.
 
2002-02-24 03:03:55 PM
If i hear this leftist/rightist media thing again i will barf. Clinton is in, everyone screams the media is Left, yet all you hear about is Clinton scandals. The man got soem head for Pete's sake... he also has the highest approval rating in presidential history.

Now Bush is in, and people over at Enron are killing themselves. He and his buddy Lay make it seem liek they barely know each other. Have you been to the smoking gun recently? have you seen the correnspondance between these two? they were far from casual aquaintances.

But thats OK, Bush is honest in a corrupt political world. If anyone believes this i have a bridge to sell them too.

Noone says a public inquiry into the 9/11 incident would EVER reveal information gathering techniques. The facts and results are what is being sought, not neccessarily the names and places of informants. It is typical shadow government crap to hide all this under the ruse of so-called national security issues.

We still don't know who is directly responsible for 9/11 other than those onboard the planes. We also have no proof that ALL the muslims that happened to be on each plane were part of the takeover.

Why do we not want public courts handling this? Because we have Shi@t for evidence. Any newb lawyer could walk this one out as circumstantial evidence at best. Of course the govt is still fighting. we are still scrambling for proof that what we did was justified. Not saying these are good people, but we took the law into our own hands, and it is merely vigillantee justice on a national scale.

And we just may have got the wrong people........

So sorry ness, I am not still in jr. high, and i read the actual article. After serving in the military in a pretty secure area, i have a decent feel for how these things go. So the only thing you can attack is the fact that i may disagree with you.. but your points are invalid as you have no factual basis for your opinions. No more than i do mine.
 
2002-02-24 03:08:07 PM
Clinton, among other things, committed perjury. Fact.

There is no proof against Bush for anything as of yet. Fact.

Shut the fvck up.
 
2002-02-24 03:17:23 PM
HappyDaddy: "Wrong again thorazine breath." "You farking nutjob" "Don't forget that your weekend furlough ends at 5pm today."

I don't really give a fark what you think. But your negative comments and constant name calling are obnoxious, boring and lack any imagination.

It's obvious you prefer attacking people and throwing negative insults at others rather than engaging in any type of meaningful discourse.

Your posts serve only to limit any serious discussion of a topic with the open exchange of opposing viewpoints - which you seem to have a big problem with.

If you wish to discuss a topic - without all your name calling and insults - that's fine, otherwise why don't you STFU and go crawl back under your rock.
 
2002-02-24 03:31:47 PM
I3ullseye: The investigations spoke of are into why our intelligence failed to anticipate 9/11 - not into whether the 19 suspected terrorist did it ... and at this point, the Zacarias Moussaoui trial is the only thing like that that matters, and I believe that trial is as public as any other criminal trial.

The question you have to ask yourself is "What would we gain from a broad and open congressional investigation into intelligence failures that led to 9/11?"

I doubt there's anything that would be discovered that those who failed to detect or preventing the attacks are already aware of and have fixed or are busting their ass to fix. ... christ an entire new governmental office has been created to coordinate preventing something like 9/11 from happening again. The only thing open congressional hearings into the intelligence failure would accomplish is to expose our intelligence apparatus, and therefore damage our ability to gather intelligence ... in other words, I think it would be more likely to break things than fix them.

That said, the direction the Bush presidency seems to be taking us terrifies me. Here's some thoughtful and funny opinion pieces from Maureen Dowd:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/20/opinion/20DOWD.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/opinion/24DOWD.html
 
2002-02-24 03:41:05 PM
Odietamo: Telling that you want people to "shut the fvck up."

The Bush strategy has been to forgive any and all wrongdoing of the Clinton White House and to seal themselves off from the public.

WH: "Just trust us, we would never do anything wrong."
Public: "Can you offer any evidence that you're not doing anything wrong?"
WHH: "How dare you challenge our integrity! Shut the fvck up. We're bust restoring this office's integrity. Leave us alone."
 
2002-02-24 03:41:38 PM
Regarding Michael Moore's comments:

I'm fairly liberal myself and even I'm put off by some of the stuff he says. I think he's funny adn makes some good points but some of the more extreme stuff he says I take with a large grain of salt.
 
2002-02-24 04:03:50 PM
Odietamo, nice posts. Anyone who thinks nattering moronic boobiehead Michael Moore has anything prescient to say might want to have his coconut examined. He's the stupid fark who wondered why the terrorists had attacked New York because a lot of liberal voters live there. He's a virtual posterboy for leftist idiocy.
 
2002-02-24 04:17:15 PM
Micheal Moore's redeeming quality is that he puts himself across primarily as an entertainer/comedian. His letter the day of the State of the Union was quite effective in getting a real point across through humor.

This is more than one can say of Nader, whom I can't think of without thinking of Grover from Sesame Street.
 
2002-02-24 04:37:21 PM
Moore and Limbaugh are opposite sides of the same coin. they distort the facts to fit their entertainment. Difference is, i find Moore funny, Rush is just not that entertaining.
 
2002-02-24 04:40:11 PM
BillyBlazer
please post more often.
 
2002-02-24 05:08:26 PM
13ullseye:

Dude, you're baked. They are NOT opposite sides of the same coin. Moore pretends to be a "humorous" leftwing thorn in the establishment's hide. Limbaugh, whether you agree with his politics or not, engages in a much more highbrow discussion of the events of the day, with a light-hearted tone frequently, but with more cogent analysis. They're not even close.
 
2002-02-24 05:16:58 PM
I have abiding faith that this will be an unbiased court.

KEN STARR WHITEWATER AIDE TO HEAR CHENEY CASE

Extremely Worrisome News From D.C.?

Joshua Marshall's Talking Points http://talkingpointsmemo.com/feb0204.html#022202240pm
is reporting that Judge John D. Bates, a Republican, has been assigned the all-important GAO-Cheney case. Bates was appointed to the federal bench by George W. Bush a mere two months ago, in December 2001. Previously, Bates served as deputy independent counsel in the Whitewater investigation from 1995 to 1997 under Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr. Bates made one campaign contribution in the 2000 election cycle: $1000 to George W. Bush.
 
2002-02-24 05:25:18 PM
BillyBlazer: I think the key in the first paragraph of your noxious post was "out of touch." You are! America is being led down a very dangerous path by a man who is, at best, a mediocre mind. (Yes, Al "The Goatee" Gore is leading us down a very dangerous albeit boring path.) OH YEAH, alGORE WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT DURING 9/11. "WE HAVE PUT THE TERRORISTS IN A LOCKBOX..." HAHAHA, HEHEHE.

This administration has pressed an extreme political agenda (CONSERVATISM IS NOT EXTREME UNLESS YOU CONSIDER LIBERALISM EXTREME) while calling for political unity, has proposed an energy policy that only benefits energy companies, (OH YEAH, THAT HORRIBLE POLICY OF DEVELOPING OUR OWN ENERGY AND NOT GETTING SO MUCH OIL FROM OVERSEAS....OH MY) and is pursuing an economic policy that was proven a failure 20 years ago (those of you old enough will remember that Stockton, the author of supply-side economics, admitted that supply-side economics was "voodoo economics" and had no validity whatsoever). (CAN'T ADDRESS THIS AS AUTHOR IS JUST A COMPLETE NINNY)

On the civil rights front, Bush's Justice department, led by a man who is admittedly a staunch supporter of the radical christian right, has been given more power to pry into citizens' lives than ever before. Offended by the sight of art which depicts the beauty of Justice, Ashcroft has been only marginally successful at capturing terrorists (especially when compared to Europe) but quite successful at hiding its activities from the public eye. ANOTHER EXTREME LIBERAL WHO IS FRIGHTENED AND SCARED OF RELIGION...NO SURPRISE THERE...ARE YOU SAYING THAT BILLY BOY SHOULD'NT HAVE BEEN CARRYING THAT BIBLE ON TELEVISION? HAHAHA)

This man Bush is not a friend to the common American. He is a failed businessman and the spoiled son of an elite family. (THIS IS WHERE LIBERAL HATRED COMES IN...YOU farkERS THRIVE ON CLASS DIVISION AND CREATING ENVY AND DEFILING THE RICH AND USE IT TO KEEP MINORITIES AND THE LOWER CLASSES ON YOUR LIB PLANTATION) He does not have the mental capacity to be creative or insightful in complicated circumstances and thus has to rely on his advisors, men and women were not elected and who represent the most radical conservative band on the political spectrum. Democrat and Republican alike, he leading the country into increasingly dangerous waters at home and abroad. (ONCE AGAIN YOUR COMMENTS REVEAL A LOT OF HATRED AND MEANNESS AS YOU BRING OUT THE USUAL LIB CANARDS...BUSH IS STUPID, HE RELIES ON HIS ADVISORS, THOSE PEOPLE ARE EXTREME RADICALS, BLAH BLAH BLAH.)

He was elected under what can only be described as dubious conditions and He should be watched and his actions carefully assessed by the other branches of government and the American People. Anytime a President demands secrecy, it should prick the ears of those who allow him or her to govern. Especially this man. (DUDE ARE YOU A POTSMOKING NADERITE? WHAT ELSE COULD EXPLAIN YOUR IDIOTIC THOUGHTS...OH, MAYBE YOU'RE A FOLLOWER OF NOAM CHOMSKY. THAT WOULD EXPLAIN A LOT OF YOUR HATRED FOR THE COMMON FOLK.) HAVE ANOTHER BONG HIT ON ME!
 
2002-02-24 05:35:09 PM
ModDoctor
why did you bother with that?

Christ man, if you're going to refute something, you must learn to do it with facts and references and perhaps some decorum.

Merely going 'you suck hippy' is not convincing. Back to the beer Redneck.
 
2002-02-24 05:35:47 PM
Hey MOD, if your going to try and hijack the thread, how about having at least one unique opinion or idea? Conservative and liberal are such media hooplah it is not funny. BOTH are bad in the extreme.

And not accepting some forms of religion is far from fear. it is fear that dominated the weak willed into a belief system founded on blind ignorant faith. It is fear to break from the herd mentality that makes one usually conform, regardless of the actual merits of the system itself.

Now graze on to the next pasture friend, when we need you to spout the opinions of those who have trained you to 'think' as they do, we will tug on your chain.

Bush was a failure at the state level, and Gore was the VP during the most highly successful presidency the nation hass ever seen. So how exactly is Gore the lesser man here during election time? We have no idea how Gore would have done, because we have no idea who his advisors would have been. noone with a clue woudl ever use the fact that Bush relies on advisors as an attack, ALL politicians use advisors. I just feel the ones Bush is using are not the best sources of aide.
 
2002-02-24 05:43:04 PM
Anti-Beard:"Read up on it, and you'll probably know just as much on the subject as the great Shadowman himself!"
Well-played, Anti-Beard. And here's what I posted earlier:
"Luckily, there ARE people who are trying to find the answers to those questions, me included. We are building a website dedicated to it, when it's done, I'll post it."
All of the contributers have agreed to reproduction of their research as a collective.Joe generally prefers his reports be reproduced unedited, but I decided to reproduce only part in the interest of saving space,and because people generally don't like to read more than a few paragraphs at a time. I was doing several postings at once,and in my haste,I was remiss in giving him credit for it.The article you found is actually reproduced on quite a few other websites, and that particular website was not the source of my quote,but thanks for directing people to it. If your research talents are as good as indicated, you will find articles written by me on other websites as well, some with credit given, some not, some in it's entirety, some not. But I'm very glad you brought it up, because he really deserves credit for it. Go here to read more of Joe's articles, including "Home Run part 2". http://geocities.com/vialls/index.html
 
2002-02-24 05:47:02 PM
Hell has no fury like that of a Mad Doctor in scorn!
 
2002-02-24 05:51:38 PM
...and I will undertake in the future to preview my posts to make sure credit is given where due before hitting submit.Fark does not have a preview option,unfortunately.
So I will be more careful and take my time to make sure quotation marks and credits are included. Thanks for pointing out this glaring error, Anti-Beard.
 
2002-02-24 05:53:12 PM
Astrocat, hang in there. Posters that can't seem to get their views across without framing them in insults just proves they are afraid of the possiblity that they are being duped by the people they look up to.

Nobody likes to feel duped. And it's much easier to fire off vulgarities in attempt to throw the conversation off course than to dig in and do some serious research to disprove any of the allegations.

As for me, I'm still waiting to see some substantial evidence that disproves the things Mike Ruppert is saying at this site: www.copvcia.com.
 
2002-02-24 05:58:00 PM
ModDoctor, your's is the sexiest, most eloquent post I've see in this forum, or any other for that matter. I mean like, it powerfully cuts to the bone of the matter, yet is precise and unfaltering as a surgeons knife - your screen name is well deserved. We all should learn from Mod whether we agree with the statements or not: ModDoctor is a pristine example of raising oneself above the partisan fray and casting the brilliant light of reason on the matters of the day.

God bless! ModDoctor in '04!
 
2002-02-24 06:25:25 PM
Astrocat, Shadowman, Spaceistheplace...

As I said earlier:

This isn't that complicated, or nefarious. Hearings on intelligence failures ought to be held by the Intelligence Committee(s), and in secret. What can safely be released publicly, will be. What can't, won't. The check on keeping things secret that are only politically embarrassing, rather than risky to national security, is the bipartisan make-up of the Committee(s).

That is my comment, that is my argument.

You are all certainly free to suggest that the President of the United States, together with the upper echelons of the military and intelligence establishment, not to mention the leadership of both parties in Congress, are part of a conspiracy to murder 3000+ Americans, launch a global campaign against terrorism, and replace our representative republic with a dictatorship. Have at it.

Just don't expect to do so without having the lunacy of that nonsense pointed out - pointedly. If you believe that stuff, you are mentally ill. Deal with it.
 
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