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(BBC)   Madonna calls for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. In response, forces in Fallujah halt advance. Bush and Blair immediately call for a NATO meeting. Israeli cabinet discussing options. Powell on his way to Iraq to meet with the provisional government   ( divider line
    More: Unlikely  
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12038 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Nov 2004 at 4:38 PM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

280 Comments     (+0 »)

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2004-11-10 07:44:41 PM  
Celebrities. Always thinking that their opinion is more valuable than anyone else's. How... quaint.

Nor LESS valuable as anyone elses. Being an Actor or Musician doesn't automatically mean you're less informed or intelligent than anyone else.

No, being Madonna pretty much signifies that you're less informed or intelligent than anyone else.
2004-11-10 07:47:40 PM  
patkelly, have you noticed that in every picture of her, she has her head tilted in the same direction with that same look on her face? It's creepy as hell.

/would still hit it
2004-11-10 07:49:22 PM  
I thought she changed her name to falefel or halvsh or something...

chick pea?
2004-11-10 07:56:27 PM  
I thought Madonna died with Arafat.
2004-11-10 07:56:55 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2004-11-10 08:04:16 PM  
-i say we sent a ranger battalion to invade madonna.

-I think Madonna has already been invaded by an entire Ranger battalion. It's in that book of hers.

-Perhaps if they mounted a full frontal assault coupled with a valiant rearguard action....

-Sounds as if a little Shock & Awe is in order.

-Rumor has it, Madonna requested American forces pull out because she has a headache & really isn't in the mood.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA, farking great. Good job guys.

/glad he was too busy at work to check fark
2004-11-10 08:13:01 PM  

I'll not repost your entire comments, but in response to 05:47:27 and 06:17:21:

You seem to be claiming the rich don't work, yet offer no supporting evidence of this claim. While this is undoubtedly true of some of them, it is equally true that some work very hard, as their are a number of new millionaires every year, you assertion is spurious at best. You then go on to claim they "neither need nor deserve the money they have." This is based upon what criteria? Your opinion? Who decides what they deserve? What they need or deserve is moot, it is their money, and you are not entitled to determine those issues.

As to some working jobs they don't like, while others have jobs they do. Well, welcome to the real world. There will always be jobs that people don't want, you can't get rid of those jobs, luckily socio-economic factors act to fill those positions. Once you eliminate those factors, how do you intend to fill the jobs? As far as poor people and thier willingness to work, I've known a number who have used that willingness to work to remove themselves from that poverty. Hard work, with sacrifice, almost always succeeds.

You claim that it is unjustifiable to for some not to have the choice of which job to take, yet you do not address why that might be. It is unjustifiable to demand that someone be given a job for which they are not qualified. America definately offers the opportunity to educate yourself, and to make advancement with that education. But you still have to be willing to do the footwork. And being qualified for a job with a lack of employment opportunites isn't the way to go. Yes, we do have fundamental rights to education and life. There is, however, no fundamental right to a job you enjoy, if you wish that, you need to take those steps to get that for yourself, it is not something that somebody is obligated to deliver to you. If you are incapable of getting a job that you want, then you do have to deal with working at what is available, whether you like it or not. At that point, any reasonable rational adult will begin to work at gaining the skills necessary to allow them to obtain the job they would prefer to be in.

In summary, the total of these two posts of yours seem to be an overwhelming jealous of those who have more and a rant of the unskilled or undereducated against reality. Nothing you've said in any way supports the arguments you make. No, hard work doesn't alway pay off, but hard work and perserverance usually does, it took me until my 40's to find my place. And no one is entitled to tell me I don't deserve the money I make because others are unwilling or unable to do the same. We are a land of opportunity, if you are willing to do what it takes.

By the way, for what it's worth, you seem to be advocating socialism, that system has already proven its weaknesses.

Oh, and to the point of the forum, she's entitled to her opinion, and I'm entitled to consider that opinion unsupported and invalid.
2004-11-10 08:49:47 PM  
look farkers, we're going to do exactly what Madonna says we should do because "we're not worthy, we're not worthy."

Yeah, and monkeys will fly out my butt!
2004-11-10 09:03:10 PM  
Her fallujah has been pounded way more then Iraqs.
2004-11-10 09:08:21 PM  
Uh, Esther...the 80's called.

Surprisingly enough, they don't want you back.

/got nuthin'
2004-11-10 09:08:39 PM  

This is a discussion that isn't entirely appropriate to a forum as this format percludes effective development of arguments. I guess i'll adress your criticism's one by one.

first off, I did say that many wealthy persons work very hard. As for what they deserve, they deserve what they work for. By that I mean that anyone in any context deserves returns proportional to the amount of effort that they put in. any gains coming from sources other than direct effort are unjustified as they are the result of chance. No one earned their natural talents or position in life, nor did they earn any of the other factors which success is contingent upon. Neither did Paris Hilton or any other heir deserve to be millionaires or to have the opportunities that they received. A normal person with George Bush's attitude would never have gotten anywhere in life, but he had nearly limitless opportunity thanks to his father's wealth and power. In short, you should get what you put in, which is far too often not the case.

When I say need, I'm referring to basic biological needs, what is needed for survival. I'm leaving this pretty vague because you could write a book trying to define this alone.

Your second paragraph is a good example of laziness. Yes there are unpleasant jobs to be filled, but these should not be filled through wage slavery. Just because there's a problem, shouldn't mean we should accept the first solution that comes along, even it's unjust. There are other ways a society could function while filling those positions, although I'm not going to try to design a new way for society to function on a forum.

When I say that people should be able to get the job that they want, I by no means mean to imply that they should get jobs for which they are underqualified. What I mean is that they should have absolutely equal opportunity to aquire the training necessary to obtain that job. My statements relied on the assumption that this equal opportunity was not afforded to all in the US, and it clearly isn't. Wealthy communitites have far better schools due to the funding system by district, and university is extremely, if not impossible, to pay for for many americans. Wealth is still a huge barrier to a proper education in the US and I hardly think anyone could deny that. The practice of legacies based on wealth is similarly unjust, I don't think I really need to explain why although I could upon request.

I also never said that a job you want is something someone should deliver to you, only that the opportunities required for you to possibly obtain that job should be delivered to you in equal proportion to all other citizens, which is far from being the case in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

Your third to last paragraph is full of incorrect assumptions. first of all, I am far from being jealous, I could hardly think of anything else in the world that I would really want. I'm not rich, but I'm perfectly fine where I am. As for undereducated, I go to one of the best schools in the world, studying political theory no less and doing extremely well so I suggest you be more careful with your assumptions.

As for the myth that hard work and perseverance usually pay off, say that to the thousands who've spent their lives mining coal, working in factories and dying young due to their hazardous working conditions they were in. Hard work and perseverence can certainly pay off, but hard work is not necessary to be successful. Many people are just lucky, and no one earns luck, and that's unfair.

Your before last paragraph is the result of anti-communist conditioning. The downfall of the Soviet Union and its satelites has nothing to do with any inherent faults that socialism may have. The USSR lost almost all semblance of socialism under Stalin. Canada is a socialist state, and so are many European states and they're doing just great while far more socially just than the US. Any claim that socialism has proven its weaknesses is merely propaganda, it works fine.

I've gotta go for a few hours but post a reply, i'll be back later.
2004-11-10 09:14:28 PM  
I wonder if Madonna would like to live in Iraq or Saudi Arabia?

Then I wonder how long it would be until they stoned her to death.
2004-11-10 10:02:03 PM  
We should withdraw from Iraq and let those people find freedom for themselves. We're winning it for them with American lives and blood. And the American taxpayer's funding it. The Iraqis aren't winning their freedom, it's being handed to them over the bodies of dead Americans.

Pull out of Iraq and see if they really do want freedom. My suspicion is that they'll be happy to kill each other for their mullahs, but not for American conceptions of "freedom".
2004-11-10 10:33:22 PM  

Your time has passed, thank Mundo. Now shut the f**k up and disappear!
2004-11-10 10:55:44 PM  
Isn't Madonna pushing like 75 now?
2004-11-10 10:56:00 PM  
I just like the article's right sidebar:

Madonna denies being anti-Bush

iat Feb 03| Music

Madonna compares Bush to Saddam
18 Jun 04| Music


//thinks celebs need to stop thinking their opinion somehow matters
///especially Mel Gibson
2004-11-10 10:59:00 PM  
Cha Cha

First, addressing my so called assumptions, I didn't state that you were either jealous or uneducated. I did say that your statements seemed to have that appearance.

You again tried to state that some how there was a way to determine what someone "deserved". Any such system is artificial. If I work hard, and choose to pass the benefits of that to my children, do I deserve to have my wishes ignored? This an argument based on some sort of concept of fairness, and there is no real world support for that. It's not a fair world. Some believe it should be, some don't. Again, I have yet to see any single argument that justifies the right to take money away from someone because you don't approve of how they gained it. I may not be impressed with those who inherit rather than earn it themselves, but their parents had that right.

You talk about wage slavery, without addressing choice. Nobody is entitled to a job they like, nor one that pays well. Those are things you should be working for and earning. Public education is available to all, as are public libraries, someone who truly wants an education can obtain one, if they are willing to do what is necessary to do so. One of my best friends was a coal miner, he got out. The ways are available, again, if you are willing to do what it takes to get out. I came from poverty, through the work of my mom, we got out. It can be done. Yes, there may be a few that fall through the cracks, but I've seen many more that don't make the attempt than those that can't succeed.

As a student of political theory, you ought to be aware of the differences between socialism and communism, I would agree that communism as an ideal is a great concept, I addressed socialism not communism. I still believe that socialism is a dead end. Once you have taught people that they can get something for nothing, and that they are entitled to do so, you will have a subset of society that demands that. Many writers have better argued this than I possibly could. You may not agree, but it is what I think. As far as how well it is working in EU, talk to me in 40 years and lets see what has happend after several generation have grown up with that form of government. I don't believe a system that punishes success and provides for those who won't (not can't, but won't) has a long term viability.

I may not be able to respond once you have replied, if not, we can continue this at another time.
2004-11-10 11:14:01 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2004-11-10 11:21:31 PM  
I liked her better when she had 3 or so dicks in her mouth.
2004-11-11 12:26:36 AM  
Who is the person who has yanked the chain of this ugly old wench?
2004-11-11 12:42:06 AM  
Didn't read any of the comments, so forgive me if this is a repeat.

"We have people who don't want to think, and who just want to guard what is theirs, and they're selfish and limited in their thinking and they're very fearful in their choices."

Um...isn't that what she's doing? Look, lady, I don't want Americans over there dying for Cheney's pocketbook any more than you, but to just unconditionally pull out now WOULD make this another Viet Nam. We're committed, we HAVE to follow through or else the consequences would be even more drastic. Like Mr. Miagi said, "Karate do yes, karate do no. Karate do guess-so, squish, just like grape." Guess an entertainer just couldn't understand this, though her Kabbala-enriched lifestyle should be able to provide her with some insight as to why you can't go off half-steppin' and not get blasted on.
2004-11-11 01:26:04 AM  
DaryoonTDP, cha cha

I went to the big red H. The people that didn't do well didn't do well because they didn't give a sh*t, not because they couldn't.

But he went to Yale first. You know what they say about Yale...
2004-11-11 05:50:18 AM  
Get our troups out, send Madonna in.

We need an annoying pop star who just went to Israel to desecrate Judiasm and a name that insults Christains to go into one of Iraqs most devout Muslim city. What could possibli go wrong. I mean, possibly
2004-11-11 06:07:29 AM  
I can't believe Madonna and other "entertainers" think we actually care what they think.
2004-11-11 08:25:20 AM  
^^^^ Word
2004-11-11 09:55:48 AM  
In other new Madonna sucks and is an idiot.
2004-11-11 01:01:24 PM  
Madonna is trying to seduce the brawny American eagle, with corny lip-syncing and hip-swishing. "Papa don't preach -let's take our troops out of Iraq!"

Let's hope the eagle will stand firm.
2004-11-11 01:03:20 PM  
As a Democrat, I'm officially sick of f*cking celebrities. They all need a good taste of the back of our collective hands.

Smartest. Democrat. Evah.
2004-11-11 01:30:55 PM  
here's a question for ya'll

if madonna offered to jump into a tank of hungry sharks in exchange for troops leaving iraq, should we take her up on it?

I realize w screwed up and we're committed in iraq, following through is really the only thing we can do now...but madonna eaten alive by sharks...hmmmm it's a tough one but i'd go for her offer.

/how 'bout if she was takin' michael moore with her? hmmmm...
2004-11-15 03:33:34 PM  
"I just dont want Madonna to be in America". I wonder if anyone is listening.
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