"An exercise bike with no tension is "exercise"?"
That was part of my point. I bet he was not on a stict regime of exercise before and remeber this is a totally biased acticle it is written by the man imprisoned not an unbiased source. any confienment is cruel when compared to total freedom. Learn to decern sources it will help your investigations... if you make those.
Plat you really remind me of harmonia did you switch screen names?? okay your arguments are rather lame. He mentions access to reading materials in two of the three acticles I have read on this subject sorry he did not use the one word you looked for... research then form opinion.. how many times do I have to say that. He makes mentions of other inmates radios so they are permnitted he just does not have one though titty can I biatch about not having a lexus when I refuse to spend the money on one?? Please read the article please pretty please with sugar on top... I understand you do not agree with me but at least reseach so you can make an intelligent informed stand and not be one of the mindless cattle.,

They were blown up by terrorists

Anabolicassassin (from way earlier)
"And if he is suspected of anything related to terrorism even giving money to Osama, he should never again see the light of day. At least not in this country."
I suspect you of being a terrorist, therefore you should be locked up forever, because of my suspicion.

Just a thought, how many violent crimes were committed by Muslim believers before September 11, and how many since? It seems that our ferver over that horrible day has eluded our thinking into a beleif that all Muslims are violent criminals. Has anyone here read the Koran and understands it's ideas of respect of life and non-violence? A few bad apples do not represent the whole barrel, my friends. Think again, the land of the free and this man has not been charged, given council or the benefits of our alleged human rights. Has anyone called Amnesty International or the ACLU??

The Dark One, reading on I see you said pretty much exactly what I did.

Vman:

Looks like you're correct about the radios. I haven't seen much about reading materials from the articles I've read, although he can be sent reading materials. I would hope he at least has access to books or something, because as it is, he is still being treated as a convicted criminal, instead of a charged visa violator who might be suspected of terrorist links, but the government is saying nothing on the subject to the media, and the GRF statement mentioned in this Free Press article claims they told otherwise.

He's being held indefinitely because he owned a hunting rifle - this apparently makes him a "threat to society." There has been no mention of him being a flight risk, and I somehow don't think he would wish to endanger his family's chances of remaining in the country (now shot to hell anyway; they're also up for deportation hearings, and they've asked to be linked to Haddad's trial so they can at least remain together whatever happens). The government has given no evidence that would justify his extended confinement and isolation.

Attack my arguments on their claims; don't just say they're "lame."

DrBenway I suspect it is because you subscribe to World.. which is rather odd of a pot smoker, he is a little too christian for my tastes tho.

I can not defend Anabolicassasins coment as I do not agree with it and think it was stupid. I can however say this.

If he is definately admittedly guilty of one crime, that we can hold him for up to two years on legally, and suspected of aiding terrorsists, we should hold him until we fully examine the ties with terrorism. I would rather see one criminal serve a lawfull sentence, then have him released in annother country to harm the us. Please note this is not an innocent we have imprisioned he is guilty of violation imigration laws. He is being held legaly he is nto an innocent that is being wrongfully detained without trial. That would be wrong.

Ariva:

Haddad does have counsel. The ACLU has joined two Detroit newspapers and Rep. John Conyers in a lawsuit against John Ashcroft to open the immigration hearings and let the evidence be heard publicly, as would be expected from a justice system in a free society. If this is an immigration case, and his crime was overstaying his visa, I don't think a rational person would argue he deserves this treatment. If he has links to terrorism that the government can prove, this shouldn't be an immigration case held behind closed doors. If he's being held as a material witness, his lawyer should at least be told of this. The grand jury investigation comes across as a fishing expedition, but maybe that's just me.

He is technically guilty of an infraction that would allow him to be held. But for someone in his position (connections to the community, no felony convictions, in the process of having his papers renewed) that would never be locked up. Don't kid yourself, this is NOT about an expired visa. This is about them wanting to lock him up but not having a shred of evidence to do so, so how lucky that this guy was lousy at keeping his paperwork up to date.

okay it is lame for these reasons.

One he could have a radio and complains about not having news of the outside world. It is also stated that he is allowed access to reading materials (this usually means books sometimes girlie mags)

He is suspected (and it is publically known that he is suspected) of aiding terrorism and questions why he is not treated like the others (let run free in the population).. See the Phoenix "Investigative lead" example, damned if we do damned if we don't I find that lame.

My hunting rifle is also considered an assualt rifle.. call it what you will illeagal aliens can not own weapons in the US (To my knowledge did nto look that up today)

Risk of flight... what are you talking about he is here illeagaly we are trying to DEPORT him.. risk of flight is not on our minds. Potential for harm is.

His wife and kids oughta be deported too they are here illeagaly they could have applyed for an extension before the visa ran out and there would not be a problem, there are consequences for our actions and inactions, 9 times out of 10 you may get away with beaking the law but that doesn't make the punishment for the one time you are caught wrong.

He is also supposed to appear in front of annother grand jury... sounds like due process to me. Public or not I do not care I would prefer it to not be public actually.

"The government has given no evidence that would justify his extended confinement and isolation"

Read immigration law up to two years he is lucky I doubt we will keep him more then 9 months.

as for the gov denying an investgation into terrorist activity that smells of double talk... as In we do not call that activity but funding.. not sure what to make of it that is the first time I have seen a gov denial (Lots of no comments) on this.

If they link the kids and wife it is only for pity sake it is a emotional play to get off or stay in whatever.

I thought what followed and preceeded my "lame" in the original was my attack on your claims, sorry but above are the reasons I find your arguments "lame"

seriosly, its disgusting how many bandwagon-jumping brainwashed non-thinking patriots we have here. id think a site like fark would be a little more even minded. if i was a little older i think it would be McCarthyesque. the prison system - no sorry, prison industry in this country is disgustingly corrupt, and id expect more intelligence from you farkers.

U guys better watch it, "they" read these threads!

I feel safer knowing the FBI etc. gave it a good try and rounded up as many supected terrorists. I'm not sorry they did it.

But it feels like we're surrendering our rights. I am betting the hard-line fascists and flag wavers will have their way, and "fighting terrorism" will be used for capricious enforcement of everything from drug laws to gun laws to Politically Correct speech.

Sorry there are some people who are a little upset still about the towers blowing up. I can understand their rants, wrong as they are I sure as hell can understand, I uttered many a "towel headed motherfarkers" in my head when I found out that the planes were hijacked by arab terrorists, that does not make me a racist that makes me human. Most of it in here I imagine is for effect and flame bait. It also upsets us when we hear all the mistakes of the US tossed in our faces as justification for the attacks, the real shame is that most of the farkers do not know enough about the anti us aholes home countrys heritige to point out all many many more mistakes they have made (We are a young country england has thousands of years of murder, lies, and rape, they are also arguabley the reason america exists and therefore not keeping us as a colony may make all of our mistakes their fault ahh sweet irony) Sorry you have to read him every morning I suggest rolling some dubage with his works it makes them easier to tolerate.

gadetdon.. I guess time will tell for now we are abiding the law and keeping him safe given his famous "Suspected Ties" in standard accomidations I would bet money he would be beaten and raped within 20 hours. then we would have to pay a huge settlement for not putting him in isolation.. damned if you do damned if you don't... better err on side of caution I say

I noticed something. This post is titled "A Letter from an American Prisoner". Hmm, if he has a visa, then how the hell is he an American?

Goodnight you farkers see you tomorrow same fark time same fark channel

okay one more pearl in the necklace of wisdom

Do nto stress over teh titles of posts they never have much to do with the article and are frequently very distorted and blatent lies made for humor/click on me value part of fark get used to it.

I kill me!

one more thing

Freep article
"has overstayed a tourist visa."

why does he own a home and have a job here if he is a tourist... doesn't that make him a resident alien.. some food for thought while I go blaze tillthe morn

in other words somethign smell here and it is not my ashcroft..

I kill me again!!

Mmmmm, bad ideas, wrong ideas. In other words, ideas that are contrary to yours, eh? Nice to see the tolerance is at an alltime high. But at least i got you from "you never had any ideas" to "you have bad ideas".... pretty damn good against a conservative.

No offense to those of you on the right wing with a right mind... seen a few of you out there today. Anyway, sleeptime.

One he could have a radio and complains about not having news of the outside world. It is also stated that he is allowed access to reading materials (this usually means books sometimes girlie mags)

If we're going from the YellowTimes article... he can be sent reading materials through the mail, and that's it. Several letters have not been delivered to him, likely due to a lack of concern whether he receives them or not. The conditions of the other inmates are unknown, whether they have more freedom of movement, can have personal items, or what, so it's actually not entirely clear why he has little access to news. It sounds like Haddad isn't allowed to have any personal items; he certainly couldn't be sent a radio from the outside (recall the mail restriction), and I don't know whether the jail commissary sells them. He's had one meeting with his family, and it doesn't sound like they were allowed to bring him anything.

He is suspected (and it is publically known that he is suspected) of aiding terrorism and questions why he is not treated like the others

He questions why he's being treated like a convicted criminal at all. Suspicions are not evidence, and the grand jury apparently isn't there to lay the grounds for a terrorism case. No intention to pursue a terrorism case has been declared. I quote from this article:

"According to the group's statement, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said that neither Haddad nor his group were targets of a grand jury investigation into terrorist activity. Haddad is expected to appear again before the grand jury, the statement said. Fitzgerald spokesman Randall Samborn declined comment Thursday night."

The prosecution hasn't exactly refuted this statement, though it's possible they wish to say as little as possible about cases in progress. This appears to be a deportation case, not a terrorism case. The Phoenix case, which if I read correctly was related to a child sex case, sounds like the result of guards not properly supervising areas where inmates gather, instead of this case where the inmate has little outside contact, even with his family, and has closed hearings. It sounds like he's being accused of and punished for crimes he hasn't even been charged with. The restrictions are extreme; he could at least be allowed some more rec time, some more freedom of movement, and more chances to contact his family. At least.

My hunting rifle is also considered an assualt rifle.. call it what you will illeagal aliens can not own weapons in the US (To my knowledge did nto look that up today)

So, simply by virtue of having the weapon in his house, he's a threat to society? I'm not talking about whether it's illegal, period; I'm asking whether a person involved in the community who wishes to become a permanent resident could be considered a "threat" simply because he has a rifle.

Risk of flight... what are you talking about he is here illeagaly we are trying to DEPORT him..

Exactly what I was saying; read it again. Risk of flight could not have been a potential reason for holding him indefinitely, leaving the threat to society reason, which as I argued above is hard to justify unless you're just looking for an excuse to lock a man up.

I'm not arguing the deportation issue; I'm arguing confinement conditions and the trial process itself. Visa violations are the crime - the only crime - anyone in the family is charged with, and while he claims to have been applying for permanent residency, he was technically in breach of the law. I argue that does not justify taking every liberty allowed by the law to put him away until he gets kicked out. It may be legal, but it's not right.

He is also supposed to appear in front of annother grand jury... sounds like due process to me. Public or not I do not care I would prefer it to not be public actually.

As Odie noted above, the grand jury hearings are also closed. Haddad has not had a single public hearing yet, no transcripts are available, no evidence has been made public, and we only have the GRF's word on whether the jury is holding a terrorism investigation. This wasn't due process when the closed-hearing/secret-evidence statutes were passed, and it's not due process now.

Read immigration law up to two years he is lucky I doubt we will keep him more then 9 months.

If he can be held for 2 years without justification for the extended confinement, no chance for bond, that should strike you as wrong. I would hope some kind of justification would need to be provided for that period of confinement, and I would also hope a trial would have to take place during that time, and not afterward.

9 months is still a long time to be locked up away from the rest of the species for someone who, I repeat, hasn't been charged with links to terrorism, suspicions are not evidence, who apparently isn't being questioned in a terrorism investigation (though why else would Haddad and the GRF be questioned?)... the whole thing just reeks of overzealousness and abuse of power.

as for the gov denying an investgation into terrorist activity that smells of double talk... as In we do not call that activity but funding.. not sure what to make of it that is the first time I have seen a gov denial (Lots of no comments) on this.

That's a question that should be answered, and fast. If terrorism, evidence. If not terrorism, why the pariah treatment?

If they link the kids and wife it is only for pity sake it is a emotional play to get off or stay in whatever

As noted, the wife and kids simply wish to remain with Rabih, whatever happens, rather than be separated for an extended period of time should one deportation take place before another.

Legally, the government might be allowed to close the hearings and hold him in near-solitary, although the constitutionality of such hearings is being questioned by at least one Congressperson. Ethically, it smacks of a fishing expedition or witch hunt. There's a reason people call for openness, openness, openness, and promote such as a reason America is great - because the alternative leads to abuses of power.

Vmann: "We are a young country england has thousands of years of murder, lies, and rape"

Don't worry, you're catching up. It's one of those rare cases where quantity beats quality everytime

You are now Farkers of the New World Order - and we are first to fark our neighbor. . . before our neighbors fark us, eh?

Meek: No, you have ideas you purport to be your own. Since they are bad, wrong and incorrect ideas, I can't understand why you claim the pablum you spew as your own -- but since you seem to take some pleasure in being wrong, I'll allow you to be.

You're welcome. :>

shouldn't this have a cool tag? we should lock up everyone who is a member of the heathen cult of islam. islam is allaht of bullshiat.

Iron Felix - You are thinking of the movie "Shawshank Redemption".. about the quote "in prison everybody is innocent."

i am locked in a cell. it measures 22 x 15 x 16.5 cm.

i want some candy

I hate how the whole state of things has seemingly separated America into those that fear what civil liberites are being taken from ourselves and others and the group I like to call "neo-patriots"
The latter being those that feed on the scapegoats and propaganda handed down by our leaders. Those that colse their minds even more and turn the war on terrorism into some sort of race war. It saddens me at the lack of respect for someone's racial heritage and religion. Even if this letter wasn't true, how far from the truth could it be for many arab american males in this country who "fit a profile". I hope all Americans realize we live in a rich and privileged society and the fact that we do live in such a society lends us to the responsibility of ensuring liberty does not die.

poop

To the asshole who signed the petition with "GadgetDon" and a rather desparaging comment: Brave, Brave guy. I always see the strongest comments from the cowards who hide in the shadows.

There are some really scary people here (in Fark).

It's all died down!

And when they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Or laugh through a glass eye as they rape our lives
Trampled underfoot by the right on the rise

That should do it.

PlatinumDragon First you never answered one of my questions are you harmonia?

Nice rebuttal BTW. I could feel the IQ's drop in posts after yours. I really can not answer your questions I have not been able to find many sources that are one unbiased (Yellow Press screams jounalistic intergrity)(sarcasm) that provides any real details. The freep article I question mostly because anyone who is quoted is on the imprisoned persons side. Here is an example of shoddy reporting (Bias) in the Freep...
"According to the group's statement, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said that neither Haddad nor his group were targets of a grand jury investigation into terrorist activity."

Now since I have no l337 skillz at all I can not bold what I want to but the key is the "Groups statement says they are not under investigation" the feds declined comment in teh next paragraph. Things like that make me doubt the source. If you ask most people in prison they are innocent too. There is more to this case, you suspect it, I suspect it, I am just withholding my judgement until I can get more info from a good source. The difference is you assume the worst of the feds, I while not assuming the best figure they have a good reason for this. I assume your ilk may call me a brainwashed neo patriot or some other stupid catch all label, but I did my research, I came to a different conclusion, I feel I justified it properly.

No onto your moronic comment Skizza, I know it is standard anti american flame bait from a toothless retarded brit (There are some good brits been there like it but Skizza, damn what can I say) Skizza you remember the "Crusade" comment that got Bush in hot water... You know why it got him in hot water... Your country (and some others) tried to massacre the entire region many many many many times over. With unprecidented cruelty, raping murdering, killing children sending children to fight etc. You know why most of the world does not like the catholics, it sure as shiat ani't falwell (Tho he keeps it going) it is teh crap england (Well okay spain too) did over the years. England has set the standard for cruelty (until post ww2 I suppose having to beg a country that suceeded from you for help toned you down a bit, that and constant nazi bombing combined with your inferior military) Your nation has raised the bar to such a level that very few (save some asian nations) nations can even fathom comming close to your exploits. We killed off the indians (With your help btw), you killed off (or tried to) hundreds of races all over teh world. read your own history and judge yourselves like you try to judge us. Ignorant fvck. We have made mistakes and will continue to do so, any country in our position would be the same or worse. We saw what you did as the global superpower, did not like it much, made you give it all back after ww2. We saw what japan did as a superpower, rape of nanking still rings in hisotrys ears, don't get me started on the chinese. The point is this, we are the most benevolant superpower (Empire) the world has ever seen. sometimes we have had evil cruel men do nastythings in our countrys name but as a whole I think we have done a pretty good job. Well okay maybe the swiss would do better. I think we do just fine, if you disagree please stop using our creation, the internet, to spout your trash.

People do things for reasons. I can not figure out why the government would create such a stink if there was no way that they could benifit from it. If you chicken littles are right and this is one example of how everymans freedoms are being eroded, what are they getting out of it?? Sheer joy from trampeling one mans rights? Not with the lawsuits that will follow (If he is not conviceted of a greater crime) I cna find no sane reason why, control possibly but by god they have more then enough of that already. give me one good reason why they would "Imprison a man with no reason" Motive is nessisary nobody has adressed motive

I'm sure they think it's possible he is sort of involved--he's an Arab regularly in contact with people in the middle east. What should happen is they should have to develop enough evidence to show a judge and say "We want a warrant to hold him". If the judge agrees, Haddid's lawyer can make the government show why, and if the judge was not making a good decision, an appeal can be made. Checks and balances to show there's something more than a vague belief. But the DoJ is using the current hysteria to turn Haddid's in-progress application into a crime with a two-year sentence that cannot be appealed and no evidence need be shown.

More importantly than being held is the way he's being held. Why can't his family visit him regularly? Why can't he have a radio? Why is he being kept in chains within the prison any time he leaves his cell?