During a state dinner with President Fidel Castro they mentioned the lack of health care facilities and doctors in many large American cities and marveled at Cubas success at eliminating diseases that are still ravaging our African American communities.

Yeah, it's amazing what you can do with compulsory universal HIV testing, then making those who test HIV positive move away to leper-colony-like camps.

Yeah, that will fly in the U.S.

I watched a travel show there last week, and it looked pretty damn nice. The travel guy went all over the country and I saw a lot of people enjoying their lives--there was a lot of singing and dancing and drinking going on. Not a lot of consumer goods there, but it looked to me like the people there enjoyed their live

Utter, complete nonsense. I can assure you that I know - first hand - this to be BS. The people are poor and undernourished. They get a shiatty little ration of nasty-looking chicken once a month from the ration bodegas, which BTW are not refrigerated. The food is horrendous, and the people - while the children are almost all beautiful - look 55 at 35; due to lack of vitamins and all the pollution, people seem to age in dog years. Yes, pollution in Cuba is 100X worse than in America. Picture the worst-polluting, smokiest, stinkiest car you have seen on the street. That's every car in Cuba. And the only reason there isn't traffic is nobody can afford a car - or a refrigerator, or a microwave, or air-conditioning in 90+ degree weather w/ 100% humidity, or anything else.

Appliances we consider essential are at least twice as expensive. Example, one of those little brown, dorm-room mini-friges, $50 at Home Depot, are like $200 in Cuba, where the average wage is like $20/mo., and government pensions are $5/mo.

And of course, the food is scarce too, and lousy. And American with a lot of money to spend ($500-1000 for a week) is hard-pressed to find decent food. Other than the most expensive hotels (where regular Cubans are not allowed to go into anyway), with their mediocre $11 hamburgers, you are eating Castro's malnutritious crap everywhere, and paying for the privilege (Cubans simply cannot get by on the government rations, so they must buy additional foodstuffs).

The only way most Cuban people get by is by 1) Foreign family members sending them money or 2) scamming tourists or 3) black market graft.

The people are in decent spirits, considering how hard their lives are, but I assure you, characterizing them as happy is as Micheal Moore propogandish as the old Civil War era movies that portrayed the blacks always smiling and happy.

Living is Cuba is very, very hard, and the most popular job for 18-and-over girls is prostitution, since that is the only sure way to get money.

My gawd, if you haven't been to Cuba, you should keep your big, ill-informed trap shut. Travel channel bullshiat notwithstanding, Cuba epitomizes all the stereotypes of why communism doesn't work, and the only thing keeping them afloat is foreign money - coming from capitalist countries!

Well said enave.

And claytoar, I'm sorry but you're incorrect on both counts. Cuba's education is in ruins. Grade school is nothing more than a Fidel pep-rally, and the absence of modern technology has nothing to do with U.S. sanctions. Cuba couldn't afford any modern technology anyway. Worse, when I say "Cuba can't afford", I'm not referring to the people of Cuba, cause they not only can't afford anything, they don't even have a right to own anything, I'm talking about the elite.

claytoar education and intelligence aren't the problem in cuba, its the access to medicinces and modern technologies they have problems with AND GUESS WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT

The US is the *only* country with an embargo on Cuba. Every other country in the entire world trades with them. Do you really believe that the difference between a happy workers' paradise and abject poverty is that one country on an entire planet wont trade with you?? That's like say that because Bill Gates doesn't shop at Walmart, Walmart will go out of business. I don't think so. After all, you know there are evil capitalists that would just love to make a fortune importing US goods to, say Mexico, and then selling them to Cuba. For all intents and purposes, there is no embargo.

As a Canadian, whose country has no moral qualms with supporting a communist dictatorship, I can tell ya straight-up that it is a bunch of unmitigated hooey that Cuba has an advanced health care system.

If you believe that, I have a five-year plan to sell you.

I have some friends who've been to Cuba recently; back in the day, you'd take candy and some foodstuffs to give to the kids and your hotel staff for tips (seeing as almost all their income is confiscated, it's like GOLD there).

Well, nowadays the new commodity is: PHARMACEUTICALS. That's right kids! And we're not talking just aspirin or Advil, we're talking penecillin, antibiotics, etc.

Like most things, ya gotta get informed on the issues before you believe urban legends that are spun by the propagandists of a communist state.

I'm from Canada, and I should know.

We especially encourage African American and Latino American students to apply.

Damned affirmative action.

it's ignorant to think the us doesn't have the power it does. that's the whole problem...

i'll expand. if a capitalist shipped american made medicines to cuba, we would place an embargo on that company, too. we'd tear them down.

and their education system is not poor. check your facts on that one....i mean, did you just kind of decide to say it? it's very untrue.

To anybody posting that Cuba's health system is the most advanced in the world,please post some proof and back up your claims.

Not sure if I should take a bit on this thread or not. Last year, as a unv student, I spent the summer in Cuba and what 90% of what Americans know about Cuba is wrong.

Cuba does have a good health care system for several reasons. One is mandatory doctor visits every year for all citizens. Granted you don't have to go if you are healthy, but the option is there.

Cuba has a high rate of doctors per population. Doctors are also one of Cuba's main exports. This is because they stopped trying to export the revolution, so they are doing other things to show the third world that Cuba can help them.

This is nothing new though. Many countries send students their to get education because as the article says, it's free, and the only promise that they students have to make it that they will use this knowledge to help the poor. US students have been going there for years.

Hell, Europeans go their to get heart surgery, and do transplants.

Cuba is huge in the bio tech industry. they manufacture many vaccines that go to third world countries.

Over all, the people are very healthy there, but there are draw backs. Some one mentioned that there is lack of food and people are starving. This is true, but this burden is made worse by a blockade. For example, their rice comes from Asia and because that is so far away, it costs more to ship it then the rice is worth. This goes for pretty much all of their staple foods.

A poster also mentioned the chicken there. At a persons house that I ate at, she got the chicken from a bodega, and it came from Connecticut.

Cuba does have alot of problems, but 90% of them are from the US. Image having the most powerful nation at your doorstep trying to tear you apart for the last 50 years. That has caused a lot of suffering.

The way I see it is that if Castro were so bad, the Cuban people would have risen up and kicked him in the box by now. Being that they have not, they must like the conditions, so I say lets buy their cigars and be done with all of this bullshiat.

bluenovaman:
I highly doubt that a majority of the people in Cuba would vote for Castro in an election; if they would, he would hold free elections. That said, while Castro is an evil bastard, he's not that evil in the hierarchy. Had we played our cards right and cozied up to him over Batista, Cuba would probably be another South Korea. But anyways, people with no history of democracy have no idea how to rise up against tyranny. For a tyrant to fall, either his base of support has to abandon him or the people have to be so oppressed that they don't care whether they live or die anymore. So I don't think it's right to say the Cubans implicitly support Castro any more than the Haitians supported Papa Doc or the Iraqis supported Saddam.

That said, I really wish we would just open up relations with Cuba; they're only 90 miles from our shores, fer chrisakes. Tourism and free trade will elicit more reform than 40 years of sanctions.

Some one mentioned that there is lack of food and people are starving. This is true, but this burden is made worse by a blockade

This is nonsense. The U.S. embargo allows American business to conduct humanitarian food/crop business with Cuba. The problem is, they will only do it on a cash basis, since Castro cannot be trusted and can't be sued due to the lack of diplomatic relations and treaties.

And it isn't a blockade, LOL. A blockade is where we have US destroyers threatening to sink any ship that tries to enter Havana Harbor. We haven't done that since 1962.

Before all the dumb libs try to blame the US for Cuba's woes, I would remind you to look at the other Carribean nations and how F'd up they are without U.S. economic santions. Haiti and is a disaster and D.R. is poor as hell, and Puerto Rico only has a decent standard of living because the U.S. sends billions of aid dollars.

Don't you silly libs see the irony of saying that communist Cuba would be great, if only capitalist USA would play nice with it? Isn't that admitting that communism can't work?

[B]Last year, as a unv student, I spent the summer in Cuba and what 90% of what Americans know about Cuba is wrong. [/B]
Huge difference between that and living there buddy. And stop blaming it on the US. It's complete crap. People were still taking off their front doors to make rafts to float here even when Cuba had the USSR around to support it. Face the reality that communism doesn't work, with or without the US embargo.
And again, I'll restate the obvious, that this whole thing is more propaganda, since that's all that bastard can offer.
Or maybe Castro just wants some more doctors around for the next time he eats it on camera.

The WHO index is based on each country's declarations... If you believe any statistic coming from a Latin American country, you are a fool. If you believe any statistic coming from a communist dictatorship, you are a fool.

Words are cheap, I'll believe Cuba's heaven when people are no long willing to risk their lives to escape this "socialist paradise."

"We especially encourage African American and Latino American students to apply."

Translation: White people: don't bother.

ain't reverse discrimination nifty?

fdiaz78
To anybody posting that Cuba's health system is the most advanced in the world,please post some proof and back up your claims.

I don't claim it's the most advanced in the world, but here is a good link:

http://www.worldmarketsanalysis.com/InFocus2002/articles/americas_Cuba_health. html

The main problems that Cuba's healthcare system has is that it can't get pharmaceuticals and equipment. The fact that they can't trade with the biggest economy in the world hurts their healthcare system immensely, yet they still have life expectancies and infant mortality rates that are on par with that same country that won't trade with them. Just think how good it would be if they could actually trade with the USA, helping their economy and their access to American drugs and equipment.

enave
The US is the *only* country with an embargo on Cuba. Every other country in the entire world trades with them. Do you really believe that the difference between a happy workers' paradise and abject poverty is that one country on an entire planet wont trade with you?? That's like say that because Bill Gates doesn't shop at Walmart, Walmart will go out of business. I don't think so. After all, you know there are evil capitalists that would just love to make a fortune importing US goods to, say Mexico, and then selling them to Cuba. For all intents and purposes, there is no embargo.

The USA has the largest economy in the world, including quite a large trade deficit (meaning we buy a lot of goods from other countries without exporting as much). Imagine Taiwan being disallowed from trading with the USA and what would happen to Taiwan's economy as a result. Also, regarding your "evil capitalist" scenario, nobody would try to go through Mexico to sell to Cuba because Cuba doesn't have enough money to make it worth the trouble. The way that lifting the embargo would help Cuba is because they would have things to sell to the USA (like tourism and some of their domestic pharmaceuticals). From my link:

In global terms, it has been estimated that the cost to the Cuban economy of the embargo was some US$1.9bn in lost revenues in the year 2000 alone. Increased commercial ties would have positive repercussions for the Cuban pharmaceutical industry in 2002 - and indeed for the entire Cuban economy.

The way lifting the embargo would help the USA is by giving us access to a great tourist spot and hastening the fall of Communism there. Eventually, Cuba's economy would also grow enough so that they could afford to purchase a lot of goods from the USA. Even without all these factors, the embargo is clearly a failure.

I'll say it one more time: THE EMBARGO IS A FAILURE. It did not hurt Castro in any way, probably helped him because it lets him blame Cuban problems on the USA, and the embargo severely hurts the Cuban people.

Uclajd

Where did I say communism works? Communism does not work in Cuba. They have a duel economy there. Their "communism" if you could even call it that is supported by the capitalistic tourist sector and dollar economy.
I never said people in Cuba have it great. They don't but if you compare them with the other third world countries, they are doing damn good.
Go read the Helms-Burton act if you think the US does not have influence on what and how Cuba trades. A ship that docks in a Cuban port can not dock in a US port for 6 months. You do not think that is a form of blockade?

Cuba cannot get credit anywhere(also thanks to US) so they are forced to use only hard currency (US dollars) to buy food and all other products. One way the govt there gets the money is by selling things that you could not normally get there, like computers, cd players, fridges, etc, is by marking up the price, and absorbing dollars that the people have. If you have access to outside income, you are in good shape. If not, well then you do have hungry kids, and it is a very sad sight. About 1/3 of the country does not have access to US dollars, and no one their denies that the rations are not enough, but you know what? At least they have rations for the people, and they could get alot more for their buck if they could openly trade with the US, which they cannot.

Also whoever said that the only cars they have their are old US cars is full of it. Maybe about 1/4 or less of the cars are old Chevys and other makes from the 50's. There are of course ALOT of Russian cars, like lada's (sp?) and mostly Italian Fiats. Not all are old at all.

cry0fan : I'm glad you see the Cuban Communist medical system for what it is (a sham), and I'll be sure to cherish your vote on the 2nd for G.W. Bush. God Bless.

theR:

This part of your article was nice (although I still doubt any Cuban stat):

Whilst Cuba's medical achievements are undoubtedly laudable, they come at a price. The high priority that healthcare takes within government policy has meant a diversion of resources away from other sectors which, as a result, have suffered. Put bluntly, advances in biotechnology may not be fully appreciated by a population having to queue for hours to receive food rations. The introduction of emergency measures in 1990 to deal with the economic adversity precipitated by the collapse of the Soviet Union included near-total food-rationing. In part due to a lack of fuel, transport on the island is dire, with many Cubans cycling or walking. Housing stock is also in very bad shape. By the 1980s Cuba had a serious housing shortage and has since built virtually no new residential housing. Consequently, it is believed that some 15% of the country's housing stock is in poor condition, including some 1,000 houses that collapsed in the capital, Havana, in 1994 alone, and a further 4,000 that are still in a precarious state today. Poor nutrition and worsening housing and sanitary conditions have been associated with a rising incidence of tuberculosis - from 5.5 cases per 100,000 population in 1990 to 18.0 per 100,000 in 1997 (latest figure available). Thus, deteriorating standards of living are affecting Cuban health, despite all the positive achievements and efforts made on the medical care front.

Sprotch

Thats no longer accurate. the period between 1990 when the soviet union fell, and around 2000 is called the special peroid. When the USSR collasped, Cuba lost 90% of its GDP. Everyone was starving, there was no gas, since the russian products were shody, many broke down, so they lost thier mass transportation. This was a very sad time. One girl who I interviewed said this was the wort time in her life(doh)because she hated seeing her mother cry every night because she could not feed her and her sister.

Cuba is still recovering from this. they are doing this by legalizing the dollar. this opened up remittances from family living in the states. They other thing they did was open the country up to tourism to the outside world. Both of these bring in billions of dollars.

Cuba has formal relations with something like 182 countries. Almost every country but the US. If the blockade was lifted, US compaines would be in the market to gain around 13 billion dollars a year(it might be more or less now. it number is a few years old.) Countries are heavly investing in cuba, and reaping profits, but the US is missing out.

Cron0: They have a duel economy there.

A duel economy? That sounds awesome. Like, their entire economy is based off of betting on duels? Sweet.

About the article: sounds pretty sweet, sign me up. I wasn`t planning on being a doctor, but hey, free is free.

Even if Cuba's medical schools are great, it's bed-side manners are terrible.

The Cuban medical system is good and compared to all of the third world it is the best. This is particularly interesting given most of the countries in Latin America that have bought into the Washington consensus on macroeconomic stability (neoliberal economics) have medical systems that fall far short of that of Cuba's. These same countries have been forced to reduce deficit spending on social programs and as a consequence have inferior social standards despite a thriving "Democracy." Democracy is more than elections.

Cuba is also unique in that it manages to produce over 80% of Latin America's scientists and doctors with a population of roughly 11.1 million people. The scholarships given to Americans for study at Cuba's Latin American School of Medicine are intended for individuals who come from undeserving socioeconomic standing.

Sprotch fails to mention the 40+ year blockade against Cuba, which has led to many of the obstacles Cuba has had to face economically. Also Sprotch does not mention that along with the crisis of 1990, actually 1991-1993, the United States saw an opportunity to squeeze a little tighter on Cuba by extending the Blockade making it difficult for countries to do business with Cuba-such as barring ships from American ports for 6 months that previously docked on Cuban ports. In some cases, countries may want to do business with Cuba, but because of American policies it may not be cost effective. There is however a growing demand from Midwestern farmers to lift the embargo. Cuba represents a potential five billion dollar rice market for U.S. growers. Currently, Cuba's shipping cost for rice coming from Vietnam is greater than that of the rice itself. So there is growing interest in trade potential with the island.

Cubans might have to wait 4 hours in line for food, but in most other Latin American countries there are no ration lines. In Mexico, for example, if you don't work, you don't eat. In Cuba there are no starving children with bloated stomachs and no shoes, such as those in Mexico and Central America. In Cuba there are not millions of homeless children as there are in Brazil. In Cuba people do not have to worry about political violence, state repression and death squads such as those of American supported regimes in Guatemala and El Salvador. In Cuba there are not sudden economic collapses as a result of IMF and World Bank constraints as was the case in Argentina.

One must recognize what Cuba has accomplished in its effort to maintain its own dignity. Dignity has come at a price, but Cuba has managed miracles under the current constraints of an unprecedented blockade policy. I say unprecedented because under the Clinton Administration, with the signing of the The Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act of 1996, (aka Helms-Burton Act II) the authority to end the 40+ year blockade was delegated to Congress. That is to say, no president can reverse the embargo without a favorable vote from Congress. Theoretically, it was easier for Bush to send our troops to Iraq than it would be for him to end the blockade against Cuba-that is simply amazing considering that Cuba has never attacked or threatened to attack the U.S.

DP

Interesting...How many hospitals will hire someone without a college degree, even if they graduated from med school?

Having a doctor (meaning someone with an MD) is extremely rare, but not unheard of. Some medical schools do not explicitly require a bachelor's degree for admission so long as you have taken the prerequsite courses (1 year of biology, physics, general chemistry, organic chemistry, with some schools also requiring a year of calculus and english). If you have met these criterion, there is nothing that will explicitly keep you from getting into a med school that doesn't state that a degree is necessary for entrance. Getting into med school is all about selling yourself to the admission committee, so if you have 3 publications and spent 5 years in the peace corps rather than finishing college, that can be good enough for them to look past the lack of a degree. There are also some schools that don't require the MCAT, so they do end up admitting a few students who haven't taken it. Of course, 99.99% of physicians do have an undergraduate degree and have taken the MCATs, since that's the most straightforward way of showing your aptitude for medical school.

Crono -"In Cuba people do not have to worry about political violence, state repression"

You're living in a pipe dream dude.

Yeah, Cuba is the best place in the world. That's why people risk their lives to flee the country onboard inner-tubes and tiny ramshackle rafts to get the hell out of there and into America.

Not that America is flawless, but I don't ever recall any Americans hiding in the wheel-well of an airplane or paddling an Igloo-Ice-Cooler-raft to get away and flee to Cuba.

Castro is all good. I respect the man greatly. He says a lot of things that make plain sense.

The idea of the medical scholarships is mainly to educate doctors to work the poverty stricken slums of South America.

Why he is offering it to Americans I dont know, but I choose to view it as hilarious commentary on his part pointing out the abysmal US health system.

It is like he is saying: "Hey you poor ass americans, we feel sorry for you and your crap health system. And we, like you, signed up to the international treaty on human rights which includes health care. So how about this, we will train some doctors for free for you, think of it as humanitarian aid!"

Exactly Outsource.
For years the medical establishment in Cuba has worked on two tiers: the first, a Goverment/Tourist tier, that in the early years was funded in large part by the Soviets, and the common class tier which is massively underfunded--even moreso now with the fall of the Soviet Union, as the funds that were once received from the Soviets was now be taken out of the civilian tier. And, considering that the U.S. has become the largest donor of humanitarian assistance to Cuba (paying something like 4 times what the rest of the world pays). What exactly is that aid? Well, much of that aid is medicines and medical equipment, so one can hardly say that Cuba is a model to be followed when it comes to healthcare. Here's some info from the Cuban American National Fundation on the subject.

You guys realize that the "blocade" is only American, right? Europeans vacation in Cuba without problems. If the country weren't bound up in communist inefficiency, they could be doing quite well. I'm for lifting the blocade immediately (cuz I want to visit) and letting some of those poor bastards actually get off the island in a normal way, not on converted '59 Buick-boats and such, Communism will solve all your problems if your needs are:

1) Static position in society, no "Air America" type rebellion, or you join the rest of the dissidents in jail.
2) Acceptance of an ongoing dictatorship/government that you have no hopes of changing. Periodic joke elections you just have to shrug off. Wow! Castro won again!
3) You have to stay there and take whatever the government decides to give you to make it work. No "eye-opening" trips to Europe or Thailand, no Burning Man, no "doing your own thing." You do what you're supposed to do, put up with it, and like it. In exchange for your poverty and limited horizons, you get various services that are sort of like what you could get if you were middle-class in America.
4) A creeping fear that your whole society is based on a system that has collapsed around the world to the cheers of every country it collapsed in.

/Seen communism, stupidest system ever.

Doesn't Castro remember Grenada, where is soldiers were guarding a bunch of US medical students? Ronnie sent in Clint Eastwood.

goksu - "Actually, I think you can bring cigars with you each time that you come home. Something like a couple boxes each time. Nothing huge, but might make you a little spending money."

Not anymore. It is illegal now for a US citizen to possess or imbibe ANY Cuban product, anywhere. The Government is claims that this new law is international, meaning that even if you are out of the U.S. in Mexico, the Bahamas, France...whereever, it is illegal for you to have a Cuban cigar or drink their rum or anything even if the local laws permit it.

cheey well i dont see americans getting on rafts and braving the ocean to get free health care