"Wait wait wait. A few of the 9/11 terrorists were US citizens? Now, they may have been here legally (they were), but they were not US citizens."

Several of them are still alive, ask them.

A friendly reminder to my fellow farkers to watch what you say on the internet...

> the right to peacefully assemble reads to actually support metal detectors :)

Yeah the peaceful protestors are afraid that the cops will confescate their weapons.

mike_the_engineer -

You should really poke around in the middle of this thread.

Hardly. We know for a fact that Muslim extremists are the ones trying to kill us, yet we cannot single them out in an investigation without lawsuits. Thats not a failure of strategy, its a failure of society and its PC bullshiat.

The Constitution of the United States is *NOT* PC bullshiat. You can take that idea and stick it up your ass.

If the nations of the world truly worked in conjunction to attack terrorists, you're damn right. They would be scared to death.

But a rogue nation defying the rest of the world to do it? Even if that nation's powerful, they're not causing terrorists to quake in their boots.

Here's a crazy idea: What if the U.S. took a more proactive role in the U.N., rather than drag its knuckles like a giant ape? What if the U.S., say, coordinated NATO to help rebuild Iraqi infrastructure? What if U.S. troops were suddenly more free to pursue Al Qaeda cells in other countries as a result? Who would biatch about that? About the U.S. trying to make the U.N. something that does good rather than shuffles around in bureaucratic stasis.

I can't think of anybody who'd want to do that...

Oh, wait. I can.

His name is John Kerry.

Al Quaeda said they wanted Bush re-elected in this letter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3523804.stm

"A word for the foolish Bush.

We know that you live in the worst days of your life in fear of death squads which spoilt your world and we are very keen that you do not lose in the forthcoming elections as we know very well that any big attack can bring down your government and this is what we do not want.

We cannot get anyone who is more foolish than you, who uses force instead of wisdom and diplomacy.

Your stupidity and religious extremism is what we want as our people will not awaken from their deep sleep except when there is an enemy..."

2004-10-17 01:11:39 AM mike_the_engineer

I'd much rather have our troops at home defending us than spread around the world attacking other countries.

Oh yeah, and Bush wants to be the United Nations. Project for the New American Century

Of course, he can't even manage to run the finances of a single country... so I don't know how good he'll be at policing the world.

and metal detectors disparage or deny protesters how? beware of the conviences that you seek for they may come back to bite you later

what will happen if a protest *is* disrupted by a bomb or shooter? probably shut down *all* protests until futher notice i would imagine .. is *that* what you want?

What the hell is NEOfascism anyway? Is this somehow different from traditional fascism? Maybe "neofascism" will replace "neoconservative" as the word most misused by liberals.

raul_vasbutin
and metal detectors disparage or deny protesters how? beware of the conviences that you seek for they may come back to bite you later

what will happen if a protest *is* disrupted by a bomb or shooter? probably shut down *all* protests until futher notice i would imagine .. is *that* what you want?

As I said many posts ago....

-----------------------------------

To me, this thread is completely rediculous and scary as hell.

Basically, if you needed metal detectors to have a protest, you would essentially have to have some type of government sanction to hold the protest in the first place, which is against the very definition of the word "protest".

Could you imagine some type of committee deliberating on assigning metal detectors on Martin Luther King's March on Washington? Hell no. That's the whole idea behind protest and activism: government be damned, we have issues that need to be addressed and we will congregate massively, wave our signs, and make our speeches to get your attention.

Personally, I REALLY see this post Sept. 11th talk of "free speech zones" and "protest permits" and "metal detectors" as a true internal crackdown on American reform.

Very sad indeed. I myself would rather die in some (terrorist?) bombing than restrict my fellow citizen. But then again, I guess that makes me a pussy.

-----------------------------------

"What the hell is NEOfascism anyway? Is this somehow different from traditional fascism? Maybe "neofascism" will replace "neoconservative" as the word most misused by liberals."

Like "Liberal" is the word most misused by neofascists?

Heh. Had to say that.

What the hell is NEOfascism anyway? Is this somehow different from traditional fascism? Maybe "neofascism" will replace "neoconservative" as the word most misused by liberals.

Neofascism differs from fascism in that the fascists blamed the Jews for their problems. Neofascists aren't so picky. They blame foreigners in general. In this case, Muslims and Middle Easterners.

FYI: Neoconservative is largely a euphamism for neofascist.

"Al Quaeda said they wanted Bush re-elected in this letter."

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! Yeah, because if Kerry is elected he'll chase them down and kill them, right? Just remember that when he pulls out of Iraq early and turns it over to the insurgents.

"I'd much rather have our troops at home defending us than spread around the world attacking other countries."

Translation: I would rather that the terrorist bring the fight here, to our homeland, than go after them where they live. BRILLIANT plan. (golf clap)

"Of course, he can't even manage to run the finances of a single country"

And you think that senator flip flop is going to do a better job? You do know that he's pushing a $600 BILLION dollar medical program, don't you?

He might TELL you that he'll fix the economy. He might TELL you that he'll hunt the terrorists down, but his senate record says otherwise.

HowlingFrog
Like "Liberal" is the word most misused by neofascists?

Trust me, they aren't misusing it. They really do hate:

liberal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

mike_the_engineer

I must have missed that memo. Where did Kerry say he's going to pull us out of Iraq?

FWIW, the ketchup thing is tired and stupid.

> Like "Liberal" is the word most misused by neofascists?

Yeah, I've noticed that they've started calling themselves "progressives" because of the negative connotation associated with the word "liberal". They're good at choosing words, I'll give them that. A progressive sounds like someone who is interested in progress. And you'd expect the word, "liberal" to have something to do with liberty. I suppose if you mean PROGRESSING toward communism and LIBERTY for certain political factions, you'd be right.

Bah - Terrorism is more impotent than domestic crime in America. Regardless of what we do, it's going to happen. We need to focus on large scale terrorism mainly. It takes miniscule steps to prevent large scale terrorism (ie securing airports)

Our economy cannot afford a police state and terrorism is just not that big of a problem or we would of seen a lot more after 9/11.

Action Replay Nick

True enough.

I liked the words of that famous old Liberal, Benjamin Franklin. When asked what kind of a government the Framers had given us, he said: "A Republic. If you can keep it."

hax0r68
""The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

"I don't think I ever said I wasn't concerned about Obsama bin Laden, that must be one of those exaggerations." -the farking 3rd debate



bow before the high priest of your god!

I personally don't see why the protesters wanted the metal detectors removed in the first place. They were there for their protection as well as the security of the facility. They were a slight inconvienience to be sure, but this particular inconvienience does not equal a removal of freedom. They were still doing their annual protest's with the detectors up. The method is as non-invasive as you can get.

Before you people get your panties all twisted up I do understand why some of you think this is a good thing (removing the metal detectors). I just think it's the wrong situation to declare freedom's were being removed or denied.

oops make that to mike_the_engineer

mike_the_engineer

Please read the definition of liberal, then google-search the origins of Democrats being blanket-labeled as "liberals". If you care about the truth of your position, you will read.

Read 'em and weep, you chump, Bush.

The house of cards is starting to tumble to the ground. Only about two more weeks until America gets to correct the mistake made four years ago. A step forward for both America, and for the rest of the world.

Probably about 90 percent of the whole world hate's Bush's guts, and about 50 percent of Bush's own country hates his guts. For some reason, I dont think all that ill will is just some sort of crazy zany quirk, and not due to his own actions (and inactions).

Bushie McFlightsuit, I'll see ya on the back nine, you one term chump.

/now watch this drive

>I must have missed that memo. Where did Kerry say he's going to pull us out of Iraq?

Man I get tired of doing liberal's homework for them.
HERE is the memo. You may sulk in shame now.

People, why do you feed the George Dubya Bush troll? You know he just does it for attention

Important note: Bash Kerry all you want, it doesn't make up for Bush's history of dangerous mistakes.

I, for one, think neocon is an overused term.

I think "backlasher" is a more accurate term.

I wonder, though, what they're really backlashing against. The Republicans control the House, the Presidency, and we have a right-leaning Supreme Court. Why is it that we never formally declared war on Iraq? Why is it that we were given horseshiat reasons for the invasion, rather than the simple, honest explanation that we needed to finish what we started and remove a genocidal dictator? Why is it that Roe v. Wade is not being directly defied, by the passage of a new law outlawing abortion altogether by Representatives? The Supreme Court would have to rule on it again. This is a conservative Supreme Court. Why is it that the amendment banning gay marriage isn't being debated in fifty states now, if it's got so much support in Washington.

I'm going to be blunt. We, the American people, are being hoodwinked. These bastards don't want to enact any of the changes they profess to want to enact. They want to stay in power, and the outrage that social conditions aren't changing toward their ideals is enough to get out the vote.

Further, I say to you that liberals and libertarians are your real allies. Libertarians especially. I'll explain. We respect your right to worship God, to choose life, to promote adoption and responsible gun ownership. For ourselves, we ask only that this be reciprocated.

Now, as regards the 2004 elections. It's time to vote out the bastards that spend all their campaign time railing against Hollywood. Does Hollywood stop the United States from passing bills? They biatch and moan, but they don't run the government. It's a fat lot of smoke and mirrors.

How about this: You're free to be free, so long as your freedoms don't interfere with other freedoms and don't harm people.

Sounds good, doesn't it? I'd like you to be free to attend worship at a Pentecostal Church, and I'd like to be free to go to Mass, and I'd like for a Muslim to be able to go to a mosque and wear traditional clothing without some narrow-minded asshat assuming he's a terrorist.

Republicans aren't going to give us freedom. They're too busy looking for more power. Power is money. Money to allies, money to themselves through business deals, bribery from lobbyists.

The Republicans and Democrats who have abandoned their constituents for quixotic quests with no basis in reality need to be voted out of office.

Let's get 'er done.

Lace Valentine has now said what I've said to so many, but being that she has a much more conservative voice than my own on a number of issues, it sure sounds better.
In my life the Democrats have been more frugal than the Republicans.
They keep hitting Kerry for the $2.2 trillion price tag on his plans, but i learned from factcheck.org that the total bill of the Bush plans are $3 trillion.
Kerry has had the numbers checked, i don't know that Bush has.
America will likely be fine and dandy regardless of who wins this election...
but, i would like to have the most intact rights i can down the road. i want to be able to take my saftey for granted again. i want to not see military men carrying mean guns at the airport. i want to see people protesting trivial stuff again. that is the America i hope to see. i honestly think Kerry is more likely to deliver, through action or inaction. the current president has shown he can get some things done, but i don't like those things.

Sandelaphon

Hey, look! Lots of Bush quotes! Was this meant to refute a previous post? I have no idea where you're going with that.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terrorists/terubl.htm

CAUTION

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

REWARD

The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

Pissed off pilots are the only ones charging UBL with the crimes of 9/11?

Personally, I like the Dubya troll. I thought it was for humor alone.

Im voting for Kerry, but I guarantee you he is lieing when he says he wants to stay in Iraq.

Kerry will have us out of Iraq within 6 months of taking office. He will use a possible "draft" to shift American opinion.

Handsome Jack Manitoba
The Republicans and Democrats who have abandoned their constituents for quixotic quests with no basis in reality need to be voted out of office.

SHAZZAM! A voice of reason!

mike_the_engineer yeah i thought you might miss it. oh well. but really, just go home.

"People, why do you feed the George Dubya Bush troll? You know he just does it for attention"

Yes, I know. It's hard to argue with facts and logic. Facts and logic are like kryptonite to a liberal. Nooo... not reasoning and logic! Noooo!!!!

Action Replay Nick

All protest's on public property are permited, if there is no permit the protesters could get arrested for trespassing, unlawfull gathering ect. It is extremely rare for a permit to be denied and it always has to deal with public safety concerns. EG: the KKK is not going to be allolwed to have a counter-parade to the gay pride parade on the same day and area as the gay pride parade. Something about inciting a riot.

Goodfella

After Bush wins, will you still leave self-serving angry comments for him on message boards?

/Bush haters take this shiat way too seriously

In reality, we've setup a system that requires politicians to lie and flip flop. One bill may have a 500 billion dollar tax cut for the rich and armor for soilders. The next bill may just have the armor for soilders. Waalaa, you've flipped flop. I think similiar to what John Stewart said, politicans and there supports spread lies because the end justifies the mean. Well its not the politicans fault, it's the system that requires/allows them to be that way.

Weaver95

Really? You dig White Wolf Games? no shiat! I used to play Glass walker characters myself. Damn. we have a lot more in common than i thought.

But arent Garou (werewolves in WW terminology) exactly the sort of eco-terrorist leftwing nutjobs you hate so much?

Or did you play the Formori or pattern spirits?

thethrowdown:

Kerry wants NATO in training cops and peacekeeping in Iraq. NATO has expressed interest in doing this (in general, not just with Kerry). That frees up troops to do the real work, hunting terrorists. Kerry's smart enough to know that if he pulls out troops, puts in an international force, and then doesn't follow through with the pursuit of Al Qaeda, he won't be liked anymore by the American people. And frankly, that's a big deal for him.

And guess what? No need for a draft. Two new divisions in the military, plus freed-up troops in Iraq, plus focus on hunting Al-Qaeda, equals to a chunk of yards, to borrow from Lee Corso.

I see things a little differently.

"Please read the definition of liberal, then google-search the origins of Democrats being blanket-labeled as "liberals"."

I'm not saying that all Democrats are liberals. But the far left has hijacked your party. Rather than defend them, you may want to start speaking up before the Democrats go the way of the Whigs.

mike_the_engineer:

Facts and reason, mind you, never get in the way of a good liberal hatin'.

It's why they call 'em flamewars.

Me, I've had enough with being on the two sides. They're like two warships firing cannons at each other far out to sea.

Both are dead in the water.

My goal is to jump ship.

Handsome Jack Manitoba - See if John Kerry doesn't start using the draft as a reason to stop in Iraq. Public support for the war will go down the toilet once they are faced with reality.

And frankly, I believe we're closer than you think. There is no f'n way Bush would of implemented a 'back-door-draft' that would of provided this much ammo and rhetoric during an election year. He would of waited and pulled it afterwards...

We are severely short on troops.

America will not have a draft for this war.

Those two things are guaranteed.

Thank you jwadeo for posting the link to the Court ruling. It is a masterpiece in Judicial simplicity to read, written so that even a dummy like me can understand ;-)

Having now read it I am going to make the bold statement that 'if you havn't read the ruling you should not be posting in this thread.'

I applaud the Court for so beautifully securing our rights and freedoms. What a wonderful breath of fresh air in the stagnant atmosphere of fear that has been engulfing our country.

> Personally, I like the Dubya troll. I thought it was for humor alone.

Man... and I was starting to like you. You're one of the rare leftists who is intellectually honest.

mike_the_engineer - the far left hasnt hijacked their party. We're just joining teams to get this tool out of office. After that, the left will be voting for Libertarians, because us liberals want to smoke a joint, while we watch the daily show..

silverone75 -

Thanks. I read it after making 10 or 15 posts to the thread. It is a good read. All 48 pages of it. The CNN article just does not do it real justice.

mike_the_engineer

You and all those stupid ass idiots that have "the terrorists back Kerry for president" bumper stickers have no friggin clue.

First of all, you must be a terrorist, or you are clueless. The only way you'd know who a terrorist would want in office is if you were one. Or perhaps you could use a little logic (the most powerful anti-conservative force in the known universe) and realize that the bush administration has been a boon for terrorist recruitment while at the same time spending most of our time and resources attacking a country that had little to do with terrorism.

Bush is the best thing to happen to the terrorists.