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(BBC) NewsFlash Tawhid and Jihad group has executed British hostage Kenneth Bigley, according to Abu Dhabi TV   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 795
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8435 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2004 at 9:00 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2004-10-08 09:33:10 AM
AKnightCowboy: Repeat after me: The war is in Iraq. Sadaam Ran Iraq. Osama Bin Laden was not the leader of Iraq. Osama is a terrorist, Sadaam was a dictator. Brown people have souls. Brown people have brains. Brown people are not the antichrist.

We can't make it much simpler.
 
2004-10-08 09:33:16 AM
Anyone swayed by the money that's on offer for working in Iraq; think again. This is why Iraqi companies are paying premium salaries. It's more or less a lottery over there.
Poor guy plead with his life, the emotional plea for his life was so raw and heartbreaking. I hope that the foreign workers in Iraq use this as a means to re-evalutate their working careers over there.
RIP Bigley.
 
2004-10-08 09:33:27 AM
"All this selfless guy wanted to do was help the Iraqi people who have suffered years and years of Saddam's brutal dictatorship only to be slaughtered by some foreign terrorist."

Yeah, all that and make a FAT chunk of change...

But hey, like some dumb, shiatty leader once said " it's hard work."
 
2004-10-08 09:33:28 AM
Never mind, canyoneer, I think you cleared it up with that last post.

Carry on...
 
2004-10-08 09:33:31 AM
Another one for Tony to feel proud of in his relentless quest for historical glory. Why couldn't John Smith have had the heart murmur and Tony got the full on attack?

/probably incomprehensible to non UK farkers, but whatever.
 
2004-10-08 09:35:25 AM
Walker
He'd still be alive if Bush hadn't invaded Iraq.
How many more people have to die for Bush's lies?
100? 1000? 4 more years of Bush=over 4000 more dead US soldiers based on the current casualty rate. Is that OK with you?


For crap's sake, man...
It's sad, but people die. A lot more Iraqis would probably be dead under Saddam had we not taken action, and you don't know if this guy would be alive anyway. He died not because we invaded Iraq, but because of a group of hateful zealots (that'd be the guys who killed him, not our administration) showed no regard for his life. Regardless of what our troops did, the terrorists would probably be off killing some other infidels elsewhere.

The point is... don't use this guy's death as a way to push your political views. That's just arsehattery.
 
2004-10-08 09:36:41 AM
londongirl

We know who John Smith is, shove it.

And if you are going to whine so profusely about Tony Blair and your own country, go move to the middle east and stfu. You all seem to be trading places with the Arab population anyways.
 
2004-10-08 09:36:43 AM
BBC are reporting Abu Dhabi have a video CD of this terrible event and are planning to air it at 3PM UK time.

Rest in Peace, Ken. I thought this one would turn out well for some reason, but now it looks like those bastards were playing everyone for suckers and are laughing their evil @$$es off at us.
 
2004-10-08 09:36:57 AM
Why has Ireland given Mr Bigley a passport when he is clearly a British Citizen (what with being born in Liverpool)... Do they hope that these people are really that stupid?! I notice the British Government aren't doing much to help, Tony Blair skipped off to Africa this week to give them the 'oh we want you guys to stop fighting' speech.. alot of good that's gonna do Mr Bigley.

/2cents
 
2004-10-08 09:37:12 AM
Peace be with Kens family and may his soul rest in peace.
 
2004-10-08 09:37:32 AM
Todd_In_Texas
It's a damn shame. All this selfless guy wanted to do was help the Iraqi people who have suffered years and years of Saddam's brutal dictatorship only to be slaughtered by some foreign terrorist. Very sad.

I don't understand why you would call this guy selfless?
He went to Iraq to make money as an "engineer", its not like he was a volunteer for the red cross or some relief agency.

Is it a shame that this guy got murdered?
Of course.

Should I turn him into a martyr?
no
 
2004-10-08 09:37:36 AM
I for one would like to welcome our Bronze Age Goat Loving Overlords.
 
2004-10-08 09:38:00 AM
wtf
 
2004-10-08 09:38:06 AM
ummmmm, no disrespect but beheading has been going on for years. I sypmathize with the civilian families and the families of the enlisted and i pray for the safe return of all one cant help but wonder what if

http://www.ogrish.com/view_attachment.php?id=43746...

In this century such barbaric acts should not exist, difference between now and then i guess is there was NO MEDIA
 
2004-10-08 09:38:06 AM
Warranty
A lot more Iraqis would probably be dead under Saddam had we not taken action...

...don't use this guy's death as a way to push your political views. That's just arsehattery.


You were saying?
 
2004-10-08 09:38:25 AM
Binnster wrote

Perhaps that would be a little more humane than the way previous Abu G prisoners have died...

You may want to watch the video of Eugene Armstrong having his head cut off and listen to the sounds he makes as he sucks air into his severed trachea and watch his chest heave as he tries to breath with his head attached only by his spinal cord before making your statement.
 
2004-10-08 09:38:27 AM
Billy Connolly = career over. Wait, since I've never heard of him, does that mean it never started?

And while most of this is the work of a small group of idiots running around making home movies playing "dress up like arab-ninjas and yell at the camera", if the Iraqis had enough balls to liberate themselves from Saddam, we wouldn't have needed to do this for them. If they're losing civilians, hey, whatever, you can't make an ommlette without breaking a few eggs, I don't want to hear any more whining comparing the accidental killing of civilians versus the deliberate murder of people who are actively known by the murderers to be civilians. There's a big difference and the two events are independent, one of them an unfortunate but unintentional byproduct of war, the other a capital crime.
 
2004-10-08 09:38:32 AM
Don't be so naive.

There's so much cash to be made in Iraq it's astounding. Nobody gives a rat's ass about the "freedom of the Iraqi people". I don't blame people for going there to work, it's a great opportunity. I'd head over myself for private security work if Bush hadn't FUBARed the follow through so much.
 
2004-10-08 09:39:37 AM
mrmule - Because at an earlier point a reporter (I believe) was released because he was Irish and therefore gets honourary 'oppressed nation' status for their struggle vs the Brits. Bigley's mother was Irish, and he had a right to claim citizenship
 
2004-10-08 09:40:32 AM
This is why you don't go to war for oil.
 
2004-10-08 09:41:13 AM
Ah, poor Bigley. This whole situation is just terrible, we shouldn't even fcking be over there right now. I can't imagine how terrifying and cathartic the last few weeks of his life must have been like, poor bastard...
 
2004-10-08 09:41:56 AM
Before the flamewar gets out of control. The report came out yesterday confirming the no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq fact. There have already been numerous reports confirming the no terrorist connections fact. Repeating lies do not make them true. Lets not elect Bush again.
 
2004-10-08 09:44:25 AM
I'm not sure who's stupider, the hostage-killers or the governments of the countries in Iraq whose citizens are becoming hostages.

The governments should know (and to their credit, most have figured it out and left) that the shortterm benefits from being over there are outweighed by the long-term drawbacks of being headless. They should also figure out that the longer they're over there the longer they'll attract these attacks.

The hostage-killers should know that what they're doing only encourages more people to go over there. The attention span and capacity for shock in the industrialized western world is quite limited. The more they kill, the less people here care, and the more our moronic governments use it as an excuse to "stay the course" and send more people over to interfere.

I guess bottom line is, both sides are really incompetent when it comes to either choosing the right goals, or choosing the right actions to achieve their objectives.

Killing people in the name of politics and Gawd will only piss them off more and make others more resolved to hunt down and kill their sorry arses.

Throwing valuable 1st world human and physical resources into a sandbox like Iraq does not a democracy make. A true democracy does not involve people voting for the puppet leaders that their dictators have selected.
 
2004-10-08 09:44:28 AM
I have no words for the sorrow I feel for him and his loved ones. I'm outta here.
 
2004-10-08 09:45:05 AM
What they need is a soft liberal president who will back off the pressure from them so that they can regroup and spend the next 4 years planning a nice big fireworks display for America again.

Jesus Christ, AKnightcowboy, these people had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. How many times does it have to be said? Iraq is nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Nothing. Get that through your thick skulls, you Bush-supporting brainwashed cretins.
 
2004-10-08 09:45:16 AM
Good. Now the half the people in Britain and America are one step further towards being as desensitized to this as they are any other violence in the world.
 
2004-10-08 09:45:47 AM
My heart goes out to this poor man and his family.
No man or woman should be caged like an animal and then murdered for no reason - it's hell.
 
2004-10-08 09:46:13 AM
mrmule


Why has Ireland given Mr Bigley a passport when he is clearly a British Citizen?

His mother was born in Ireland, so he's entitled to Irish citizenship. Bare in mind that Ireland used to be part of the UK not so long ago, so there are arrangements between the two countries regarding citizenship. Both countries allow dual citizenship, so you can have both an Irish and British passport if one of your parents is Irish but you were born in the UK, or visa versa.

An Irish passport is a handy thing to have. As we're a small, neutral country, we don't have any beef with anyone else, so it can make travel in trouble-spots a lot easier.

And to directly answer your question, the reason his captors didn't kill him at the beginning was that they thought he was Irish, not British. His family applied for an Irish passport for him (which they are entitled to do) to try to save his life.
 
2004-10-08 09:46:17 AM
I'm sorry for this guy's family. But I'm not really all that sorry for him. There's a reason the pay in Iraq is so high...you're taking a job from qualified Iraqis (remember, they were a modern country until we shock and awed them) who want you dead for doing so. So, it's a risk/reward kinda thing.

And boo hoo for all of that "he's just trying to support his family." I seem thousands of Americans supporting their families right here at home. Why does he have to do it half-way around the world? Oh yeah...that's right, he can get rich doing it.
 
2004-10-08 09:47:26 AM
My heart goes out to his family who have waited so long for this awful outcome. You are in our prayers.

Rest in Peace Kenneth.
 
2004-10-08 09:47:30 AM
Even if Iraqis eventually gain control over their own country, I'll still be very unimpressed with them as a people. A lack of reasonable leadership, a lack of courage, a lack of appreciation; and where anti-US hostility stops, general complacency and cowardice begins.

All of this plus the fact that they are literally sitting on a pot of gold (black).

Cut the country up so they will shut the **** up.
 
2004-10-08 09:48:00 AM
Is Iraq really any more dangerous than Detroit, L.A. or Washington, D.C. in the ghetto neighborhoods?

Um, yes. When was the last time you heard of a car bomb asploding a bunch of people at any of the above cities?
 
2004-10-08 09:48:02 AM
Wish I could see what Dano64ccc and canyoneer's initial posts were...hard to follow the discussion when the mods step in and remove 'offensive' material (I have to assume that's why). Hint to mods: those who visit these forums often take care of inane posts and posters--it helps spotlight hypocrises and such. Lighten up on that delete function, fellas.

To the story at hand, I wish he can rest in peace.

That being said, these asshat kidnappers should at least do a little background work on whom they take...often, their 'hostages' are individuals engaged in the betterment of Iraq, typically through public works or infrastructure improvements.

They are not helping their cause by taking such people. Not to say that there are 'correct' people to take, but one could venture that military and para-military types are who they are 'against.' Taking innocents like this man does nothing but harden the will of the civilized world. It's like they say "look over there, Abdul, a whitie, let's get 'em and chop off his noggin." Asshats.
 
2004-10-08 09:48:05 AM

I don't think this guy is better off now than he was with Saddam Hussein.

Just sayin'.

 
2004-10-08 09:48:25 AM
therecksays, Saddam Hussein did have ties to terrorists, but the only serious ones he had were his ties to the various Palestinian terrorist groups which he would give $25,000 to the family of every suicide bomber.

Osama Bin Laden was also offered sanctuary in Iraq at one point but he declined.

thethrowdown, you know I get really sick and tired of hearing that old bullshiat mantra about 'war for oil'. Invading a country so you could harvest its natural resources is sooo 19th-20th century. With our modern global economy you don't need to wage a war to get resources, you merely need the cash to purchase them, so nowadays almost all wars are about ideology and pride. We haven't stolen a drop of Iraq's oil and we've sunk billions into this war.
 
2004-10-08 09:49:10 AM
These Muslim savages remind me of the savages that infested this Great Nation back at a time some free-thinking Europeans sought nothing but religious freedom. Scalping women and children then was wrong and these horrific beheadings are wrong today.

We must defend America at all costs. Protect Liberty. Protect Freedom. We all have the power. The Power of the Ballot. Vote by November 2 (not November 6, as I have seen published in some locations).
 
2004-10-08 09:49:14 AM
Sucks that he is dead, but I have little sympathy for war profiteers.
 
2004-10-08 09:50:21 AM
> When did the delegation of Iraqis come to the USA and request all of this?

There was long-term lobbying since the 1980's. Remember Akhmed Chalabi and the "Iraqi National Congress"?
 
2004-10-08 09:50:53 AM
Yahweh

thanks for clearing that up
 
2004-10-08 09:51:07 AM
HotWingConspiracy -"Sucks that he is dead, but I have little sympathy for war profiteers."

I do think it should be kept in mind he was already in the Gulf region and had been for at least a decade, and his company moved him to Iraq.
 
2004-10-08 09:51:22 AM
""Um, if you hadn't noticed by now, about 100% of those "cheering crowds tear down Saddam statue" incidents in April 2003 were rank propaganda tailor-made for spoon-feeding to gullible Americans.
""

Oh that is bullcrap. You fools would LIKE people to beleive they are gullible, but it isn't true. The reality is those people that showed up to pound on that statue with their shoes were not forced or sent there by the Americans, or anyone else, they were just the only people with the nuts to go out and do it. I am a very brave guy, but them showing up and pounding on that statue, and all the other displays of victory you wish didn't happen, were acts of the highest form of bravery, because you KNOW there were former regime elements looking on and some of those celebrators were going to be killed. Even I would not hav ebeen caught dead out there celebrating that soon after the fall.

Canyoneer, and his opposition are both right. The insurgency is composed mostly, but not entirely of the following:

1. Terrorists who came into the country to wage an imaginary jihad, at or not at the behest of some low level cleric.

2. Former regime elements

3. Sunni minority, and others who are brainwashed and fooled into thinking the US is the new ruling party of Iraq.

In that order. Some of those people are ordinary Iraqi citizens. It is a sad but true fact. They are victims of the clerics and Islam's ignorance. Iran is funding, and supplying people to support and create an insurgency, and I am sure Syria is doing it too. You people who think all the people we are killing are ordinary Iraqis are the ones who are brainwashed, and fooled, not the others. The reality is, that although it may decay into a revolution at some point, it is not yet there by a longshot.
 
2004-10-08 09:51:30 AM
start lining up the guys in Abu G...

for every one hostage killed or beheaded, mow down 10 of those fcuks with machine guns.

thye want to behead another ? make the next line up 15.

..yet another, you got it... the third line up will be 20.

They'll get the picture by then hopefully

If they want to play this type of game, we have to lower to their standards, play on the same field.
 
2004-10-08 09:51:34 AM
RandomExcess


These Muslim savages...

How on Earth are you claiming to be a liberal? It's fine if you are, but at least make sense.
 
2004-10-08 09:51:41 AM
:(
 
2004-10-08 09:51:43 AM
Haizum: That is because Iraq is an artificial country created from three Ottoman vilayets in 1920 by the British for their own convenience. The only way it has held together since is through a brutal dictatorship keeping its many factions and sects under the thumb of an iron fist.

The USA has cleverly removed the iron fist and now must become the brutal dictator, or get to hell out and watch it fly apart at the seams. There is no possibility in between these two. Which do you recommend, hmmm?
 
2004-10-08 09:51:49 AM
canyoneer
AKnightCowboy: And the bizarro upside-down contradictory "logic" just keeps coming. Guys like you dismiss the insurgency in Iraq as no worse than ordinary street crime and say it is a job for Iraqi police. But 9-11 was an act of war, not a matter for law enforcement!


9-11 was a direct attack on the United States by a foreign terrorist group. The New York City police have no authority or capability to hunt down the criminals and fight them on their own territory so the army must get involved. In the case of the insurgents fighting in Iraq, the Iraqi police DO have jurisdiction over the area and should be fighting these people. Let's be honest, if a terrorist war errupted in downtown NYC with raging gun battles going, you'd see NYC SWAT respond first not the US Marines... well, at least that's what I would've expected pre-9-11. Using the military to fight urban police actions is like using a howitzer to open your beer. If you want to blow up a brewery then they're the first guys you call on the other hand.

 
2004-10-08 09:52:38 AM
I'll still be very unimpressed with them as a people.

You're priceless.
 
2004-10-08 09:52:43 AM
Poor guy. Rest in Peace.
 
2004-10-08 09:53:02 AM
Scotty's on FIRE!

Perhaps I'd need to watch a video of someone being tortured to death to make a valid comparison.
 
2004-10-08 09:53:24 AM
I'm sorry for this guy's family. But I'm not really all that sorry for him. There's a reason the pay in Iraq is so high...you're taking a job from qualified Iraqis (remember, they were a modern country until we shock and awed them) who want you dead for doing so. So, it's a risk/reward kinda thing.

And boo hoo for all of that "he's just trying to support his family." I seem thousands of Americans supporting their families right here at home. Why does he have to do it half-way around the world? Oh yeah...that's right, he can get rich doing it.


Hear hear. I believe that any worker going do Iraq is well aware of the risks he will be taking.

He went there, he got caught, shiat happens. I feel sorry for him as I feel sorry for any soldier and civilian, iraqi or american or of any other nationality that got killed in this farked-up war.
 
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