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(Reuters)   Kenneth Lay has run away, doo-dah doo-dah.   ( divider line
    More: Amusing  
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5387 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2002 at 8:33 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

128 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-02-05 10:56:20 AM  
Cold Women?
2002-02-05 10:56:39 AM  
/Tom Waits
2002-02-05 10:58:32 AM  
GadgetDon, "Capigula, while I'll agree that the ad may be over the top, it definitely goes both ways. And compared to what has been reported in the press, the comments by the Congresscritters is positively mild."

I didn't say they were over the top. I said they were irresponsible and they are. You're arguing a matter of degree again. Someone else said something worse so it's OK if the leaders I identify with do it to as long as they do it to a lesser degree"
2002-02-05 10:58:34 AM  
So, Harmonia, you'd have me believe that you've measured your shadow in various parts of the world...Seems like an odd way to spend a holiday...

If not, then you've missed my point. I didn't say evidence doesn't exist, I said I hadn't seen any personally.

Back on topic, I do believe that Ken lay, Like all of us, has the right to a fair trial. If he's ever charged with a crime, that is.
2002-02-05 10:59:10 AM  
Bookman the constitution of the US applies to the people working at camp xray...therefore they are duty bound to nice friendly americans to the detainees.

in any case the detainees are being treated like any other maximum risk detainee in the US. no one ever said prison was easy.

harmonia tell me you would like to spend a night in the same cell as one of these detainees...could you reason with them. I doubt it
2002-02-05 10:59:28 AM  
No, Bookman, again you miss the point entirely. I said in there a couple of times that the Constitution applies to those who lie within the jurisdiction of the United States. That means anyone within the US, and anyone we claim we have the right to hold. We can not claim the right to hold people without claiming jurisdiction over them. Therefore, if we are holding them, they fall under our jurisdiction. If not, we have no legal authority under US or international law to be holding them in the first place.
If you want to be rational about it, Bookman, I will state this very rational thing to you one more time, as I did in the Boobies. The Constitutional rights as they apply to people and not specifically citizens apply to all of those that fall under the jurisdiction of the United States. I did not say that they apply to the entire world under the US Constitution--only where US jurisdiction lies. The US cannot detain people outside of its territory without some claim of jurisdiction. As soon as it claimes the right to jurisdiction, the Constitution comes into play. You can't have an American Constitutional government that can ignore the Constitution at ANY POINT. Every action the US government takes by nature must fall within the Constitution when dealing with human beings. There is no extra-Constitutional authority given to the United States government at all.
2002-02-05 11:02:06 AM  
Maybe Ken Lay has gone to Spain with Ronnie Biggs, Minnie Driver's dad Ronnie, Jim Walker, and all the other (alleged) crooks.
2002-02-05 11:09:44 AM  
2002-02-05 11:15:20 AM  
I would very much like to hear Ken Lay's side of things... So would Congress, obviously. Hey, if he plays his cards right, he could join Ollie North in the ranks of the Unindicted Coconspirator hall of fame.

But you gotta admit, it looks very bad for him. First he volunteers to talk, then he snubs Congress at the last minute. Then, when they say "Hey, we REALLY want to talk to you" he vanishes...

Oh, and for you "Flat Earth" types who can't afford a globetrotting vacation, here's an ancient Greek proof that only requires you to look at the moon every so often:

"The sphericity of the earth is proved by the evidence of ... lunar eclipses. For whereas in the monthly phases of the moon the segments are of all sorts--straight, gibbous [convex], crescent--in eclipses the dividing line is always rounded. Consequently, if the eclipse is due to the interposition of the earth, the rounded line results from its spherical shape"
- Aristotle
2002-02-05 11:27:49 AM  

I do not call everyone that disagrees with me a troll. But to take a topic like this, and attempt to link it to something like OBL just to bash our president and get a rise out of people is trolling, imo.
2002-02-05 11:43:13 AM  
Some of this was stupid. Of course I am not going to accept someone else's subpoena. Would you?

Less stupid. The subpoena as voted last night/this morning for the first committee. Why the hell is it his responsibility to make it easy on them to serve the subpoena by keeping in touch with the Committee?

Looks bad but not illegal. Either way he is Farked because he blew their big "show" trial Monday. Why make it easy?
2002-02-05 11:44:17 AM  
Props to WorldCitizen for showing the US constitution.

If what Bookman, our illustrious superior, says is true, then the United States can do anything it wants to anyone that isn't a US citizen because it only applies to them. Is this the case? No.

Then, by your argument, if the RIGHTS inherent in the Constitution apply to everyone in the world, the DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES should also apply. OK, I'll buy into that if every single person in the world would have to:
1) pay taxes to the United States.
2) register for the U.S. Selective Service.
3) abide by all United States laws.
4) obtain a US passport when traveling anywhere.
5) abide by decisions handed down by the Supreme Court.

It applies to everyone that is within the jurisdiction of the US. Jeeze. If you don't give other people the same opportunity as YOUR people when they are being prosecuted in YOUR country, it makes you a hypocrite.

Here's another look: if the US Constitution only applies to Us citizens, then anyone else can come in and rampage around, as they aren't forced to follow the laws in place.

No glanding, please. Rational responses only.

It's sad that you obviously didn't actually THINK about what was said- you just skimmed over it. If you hadn't, you would have gotten the point and wouldn't have made yourself look the fool.
2002-02-05 11:47:19 AM  
I am utterly shocked and surprised that a Bush family member might be involved in anything scandalous. Such is my love for the Washington government that I refuse to believe it.
2002-02-05 11:48:37 AM  
Seems to me that the same type of "Witch Hunt" politics was around just a few years ago, remember the Clinton 'Whitewater' scandal'??? Get used to it, as the old saying goes.. "Payback is a biatch"
2002-02-05 12:00:16 PM  
Whitewater was an old-fashioned land-flipping scam, and if the Republicans actually cared about that kind of thing, they'd have lynched the whole Bush clan. Anyone remember this little dust-up in the 80s called the S&L collapse? Enron absolutely dwarfs Whitewater. Then again, so did a lot of Clinton's crimes, but we don't talk about those, because they're the sort of thing a president is supposed to do.
2002-02-05 12:03:54 PM  
Maybe he could emulate Bud Dwyer ?
I'd watch and clap at the end result.
2002-02-05 12:35:13 PM  
Jimmy Hoffa? what? oh You said Kenneth Lay...Same thing.
2002-02-05 01:01:26 PM  
Enron drags entire Down down with it as "as investors grew more doubtful about the honesty of corporate bookkeeping in general."

More accurately, investors have grown more doubtful about the profitability of dishonest bookkeeping.
2002-02-05 01:02:47 PM  
Oops, meant "entire Dow."

I hate typso.
2002-02-05 01:09:27 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2002-02-05 01:54:19 PM  
many thanks Nissananimal!
That would make a good photoshop contest.
2002-02-05 02:50:28 PM  
Your Welcome Jiggs,

I had to hold back as I have been paying that B*stard through PGE and have learned that they pocketed the money that was supposed to be used to pay taxes.
2002-02-05 04:12:12 PM  
World Citizen:

"...No PERSON shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; "

Well, if you are shooting at American forces, that may just be considered an act of war, or a case arising in the land or naval forces, or a matter of public danger. We have every right to lock up those murderers and terrorists, as written in the constitiution of the United States.

No go flog the dolphin and leave us 'mercans alone!
2002-02-05 04:48:33 PM  
Ronnie Dobbs: This following part of the Constitution that you seem to be referring to:
"except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger;"
is referring to American personnel serving in the land, naval and militia forces, not enemies of the US. It is just saying that grand juries are not necessary for US troops. The military is governed by a separate court system from us civilians anyway. That little sentence you were referring to was the US Constitution saying we have the right to lock up our own troops without a grand jury trial, not foreign nationals.
In time of war the Geneva Convention, which the US signed, takes over as international law. If people are firing at US troops during an act of war, they fall under the Geneva convention. If we capture them, they are POWs. POWs by international law have to be released when hostilities end and cannot be questioned beyond their name, rank and serial number. That is why the US does not want to call its prisoners would then have to abide by international law. This is fine, as long as it is recognized that they are now under the jurisdition of the United States and therefore must be treated Constitutionally--unless you think the US government should be allowed to act outside of the US Constitution...which would make the document worthless.

"No go flog the dolphin and leave us 'mercans alone!"

When 'mercans like you begin to understand your own laws and realize that those very things are what make us better than people like bin Laden, then I will leave you alone. I'm not going to let you allow the trampling of the very rights we are supposed to be defending.
2002-02-05 07:25:23 PM  
do-duh do duh
2002-02-05 07:35:28 PM  
To my adoring fans, i would like to thank, in no particular order:

Deus: Obvious? What's more amusing that a bald billionare running?
ECP: i try my best
Pushmi_pullyu: looks like ive been away too long
and thanks to my agent, producer and anyone else i've forgotten.
2002-02-05 08:44:38 PM  
I think we should wait until all of the facts come in. Hey may not be the asshole we all think he might be.
2002-02-06 12:23:40 AM  
Ryan Leaf used to be my hero, but no longer.

Consider: Ryan Leaf gets a HUGE contract from the Chargers to play football. He does everything he can to not play football -- be an asshole to the coaches, play poorly, hurt himself, etc etc etc. So Leaf gets to sit on the bench safely out of harm's way while he collects his tens of millions of dollars.

Ken Lay on the other hand, gets to screw shareholders out of millions of dollars, sell his (grossly overvalued) stock options for hundreds of millions of dollars, drop the cash in a bunch of overseas accounts, then tell the U.S. Senate investigating board exactly where to shove it. Take the fifth, make sure everybody around him is dead or missing, and bail. Brilliant!

I wanna be just like Kenneth Lay. He's my new hero.
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