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(Reuters)   Kenneth Lay has run away, doo-dah doo-dah.   ( divider line
    More: Amusing  
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5387 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2002 at 8:33 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

128 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-02-05 09:50:38 AM  
"I hate to bring this up but there is this thing called a trial"

I agree, you be out campaigning for the release of the Detainees in capm x-ray? or does your opinion only apply to rich CEO's?

2002-02-05 09:51:22 AM  
These are ads being run against Elizabeth Dole and the purpose is purely
political. Doesn't everyone here find that irresponsible?

Remember those "subliminable" RATS ads?

Put up or shut up.
2002-02-05 09:51:25 AM  
Could someone photoshop me a wanted posted with this shylock on it?
2002-02-05 09:51:38 AM  
May he be sentenced to cock and ball torture.
2002-02-05 09:53:02 AM  
Scarneck: True dat, but he was reaming Bush's asshole, whereas the Dems were just receiving blowjobs (as per tradition).
2002-02-05 09:53:06 AM  
Lay and Fastow both deserve cheesegraters on the ball sac and a spash of rubbing alchohol.
2002-02-05 09:53:25 AM  
He's working on Phase II of the super-secret Bush/Cheney energy plan.
2002-02-05 09:54:17 AM  
Perhaps he is also in a "Undisclosed location"
2002-02-05 09:54:56 AM  
"Trial? TRIAL???? WE DON'T NEED NO STINK'IN TRIAL! We'z all good little liberal hormone-heads, marching in goose-step like the good little robot-ants we are, and we KNOW he's guilty."

Kind of like the little conservative ditto heads were goose-steping like the good little robot-ants they are by calling for John Walkers head before his trial? It works both ways kids, sorry to tell ya. The media and the public have no patience for the justice system to actually do its job. It has nothing to do with political party. Although, if it's conservative being accused, the cries against the liberal media will obviously start.
2002-02-05 09:55:52 AM  
Taint the legal process

And here comes the real kicker: if Lay IS indicted (subpoena != indictment), and the prosecution cannot find 12 people who can claim impartiality, the case must be dismissed. And he walks. So, if EVERYBODY in the country has it imprinted in their minds, "Kenneth Lay is a thieving prick", he gets off scot free.

Now THAT, my friend, is tainting the legal process!
2002-02-05 09:55:53 AM  

That's got to be about the best deterant to crime Ive ever heard.
2002-02-05 09:56:09 AM  
Kenneth Lay has run away, doo-dah doo-dah,
Farker thinks he got away, oh-de-doo-dah-day.
Chase his ass all nite,
Chase his ass all day,
Lock him up with Rape'n Ray,
With his ass he'll pay....

"....Now, now, Mr. Lay, don't you cry, it only hurts the first few times...."
2002-02-05 09:56:33 AM  
You think his lawyer told him to run away because people are making him look guilty?
Explain how this helps Kenny boy maintain his innocence?
2002-02-05 09:58:05 AM  
WC, you see its all down to what GWB says.

GWB says OBL and the rest are guilty and the conservative ditto heads will be greaing the rope.

However if a fat-cat CEO rips off millions suddenly its "Due process" and "Innocent until proven guilty"

Orwell called it doublethink, the ability to hold two completely opposed views at the same time.

I prefer the word hypocracy but I cant spell it ;)
2002-02-05 10:01:16 AM  

Are you serious? The only evidence of OBL's guilt is what GW says? How and why can you link Kennyboy to the terrorists.

Even for a troll, that's a stretch.
2002-02-05 10:03:24 AM  
He's shacked up with OJ's girlfriend I think.
2002-02-05 10:03:43 AM  
But does he sleep with the fishes?
2002-02-05 10:03:50 AM  
A stinging ball sac is a powerful motivator, scarneck.
2002-02-05 10:03:55 AM  
Don't give me any of that Conservative vs. Liberal BS. The honest truth is that neither conservatives nor liberals love this country. Liberal only love this country as they envision it at some point in the future. They love the country they hope to create with no greed, no poverty and no hate. But their ideal is unattainable and will never exist. Conservatives only love this country as they think it once did exist, but that America never did exist. When they look at the America of old they see Mom, apple pie, brave men defending freedom. But they can't see the reality of slavery, violence and exploitation. The two are hopelessly confounded and neither will achieve their objectives so let them fight. What scares me is that they will stop at nothing and use any means to the end they desire.


I'll admit my feelings about the rights on the detainees as opposed to the rights of a citizen are conflicting.
2002-02-05 10:04:58 AM  
Scarneck, troll=someone who disagrees with me.

There is very little direct evidence that OBL is guilty after all, a few dodgy videos and thats about it.

Anyway you were all calling for his blood on 10-11 with no evidence.

He might well have done it, I dont know, but some evidence would be nice.
2002-02-05 10:08:43 AM  
I'll take the Dubya line: this is a financial issue, not a political one. Why make it one? Clinton had his share of corporate scandals, so will every other president. This has nothing to do with being a Dem or GOP supporter.

It's just funny to me that people act shocked when they find out career politicians are corrupt. That's like being shocked that it gets dark at night. Just take it into account and vote accordingly.
2002-02-05 10:09:26 AM  
Fair enough Capigula.
2002-02-05 10:13:26 AM  
Republicat (n.: 1. One who jives on the Hill by day, and herds his lil' fillies by night. He's one touch mutha! Shaft!
2002-02-05 10:14:19 AM  
So what does your above post have to do with Kenny boy? Yes, people on the far ends of the political spectrum hold radical viewpoints that are unattainable in the real worl, nothing new there. The question is why you feel the need to pull out the soap box in defense of an excessively wealthy man that mislead (I beleive this much is obovious) his employees and shareholders at the expense of their life savings. Corporate criminals should be treated in the same way as other criminals, regardless of wealth and power.
2002-02-05 10:14:20 AM  
>>>>>Harmonia: "I hate to bring this up but there is this thing called a trial" I agree, you be out campaigning for the release of the Detainees in capm x-ray? or does your opinion only apply to rich CEO's?

rich CEO = American citizen, who's rights are protected by the Constitution.

detainees in Camp X-Ray = non-American citizens NOT protected by the Constitution.

Please show us the document - national or international - that requires that we afford NON-Americans the same rights and priviledges affored U.S. citizens.

Glanding not allowed; rational response only. Please.
2002-02-05 10:14:26 AM  
Scarneck: I'm going to go out on a limb and say Harmonia has a valid, if probably naive, point. There is no direct evidence yet linking OBL to the crime. Plenty of evidence to suggest it, yes. But nothing concrete, unless there is evidence the JD hasn't revealed yet. He's still a criminal, and we should pursue him, but the standards of guilt or innocence should go beyond mere propaganda.
2002-02-05 10:15:02 AM  
"What scares me is that they will stop at nothing and use any means to the end they desire."

Do you really think that anyone that falls slightly left or right of center will stop at nothing to attain some agenda? I think that the people on both extremes certainly fit that category, but I would not label anyone that is just liberal or conservative out to smash a path before them, Constitution, rights, and life be damned.
Farrakhan and Pat Robertson, yes. Average Joe Blow liberal or conservative, no.
2002-02-05 10:20:14 AM  
Torgo: While I agree with your generalization about politicians, the level of corruption surrounding Enron far exceeds that of Whitewater. I understand that politicians are corrupt, that's why I want them dumped in a mineshaft and forgotten.
2002-02-05 10:21:37 AM  
The Geneva Convention?

Not the full protection as the bill of rights certainly but it does demand the same trails for POW's as for the soldiers of the imprisoning power.

Signed by both the USA and Afghanistan in 1949.
2002-02-05 10:21:38 AM  
I'd run to if people were training a gunsight on me.
I bet someone eventually puts a bullet in Lay's head.
He deserves it, too.
2002-02-05 10:23:03 AM  
Bookman: Here you go; the document you requested. It's called the Constitution of the United States of America. If you actually read it, you will notice that justice in the Constitution does not apply just to citizens, but to PEOPLE. The following portions of the Constitution make clear the rights of people that fall under the jurisdiction of the United States. And if we are detaining them, they are under our jurisdiction.

Amendment IV
The right of the PEOPLE to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the PERSONS or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No PERSON shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any PERSON be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the ACCUSED shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any PERSON of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
2002-02-05 10:23:34 AM  
Nice little rundown of Ken and co.'s influence.
2002-02-05 10:25:24 AM  
WaterCloset, the PEOPLE referred to in the constitution are citizens. You know, as in "We, the People of the United States..."?
2002-02-05 10:25:45 AM  
So, if he runs to Mexico, would we have to call him Frito-Lay? Wouldn't that sound corny though? But he could then cash in his chips.

*ducks for cover*
2002-02-05 10:27:57 AM  
Kenny's probably a total sleazebag, but I still haven't heard a single accusation of actual criminal activity. Bad ethics, sure, but not criminal acts. (Now that he's bolted, I guess there is only time until we do hear of some.)
2002-02-05 10:30:17 AM  
WorldCitizen - Supporting this kind of irresponsible behavior does not require that you take part in it. Only that you sit and do nothing. In the end it doesn't matter how far left of right you are. All that matters is your willingness to go along. It's not just a matter of degrees left or right that define us its our actions or inactions.
2002-02-05 10:32:26 AM  
>>>>WorldCitizen: Kind of like the little conservative ditto heads were goose-steping like the good little robot-ants they are.....

It would be sooooo helpful if you knew what that fark you were talking about before you put fingers to keyboard.

"Ditto-head" (in case anyone here has even bothered to listen to the show) refers to a caller who would like to give a long-winded intro to their call and effusive praise to Limbaugh but - in the interests of radio time, is "dittoing" the verbaige of long-ago callers.

For example, people would call up with statements like "Hey Rush, greetings and felicitations to the greatest from the great conservative City/County/State/whatever of Bumfark, where it never blizzards liberals but only snows moderates blah blah blah blah...."

And Limbaugh would tell them, basically, to "snap it up" or "get a life". So it got to be a custom that callers would start with "dittos on what the last caller said, except I'm in Los Angeles" or whatever, and the callers came to be known as dittoheads.

It does not mean, and has never meant (except in the atrophied minds of Liberals), that the caller blindly agrees with everything that Limbaugh spouts off about.
2002-02-05 10:34:03 AM  
Lurk, "Corporate criminals should be treated in the same way as other criminals, regardless of wealth and power."

2002-02-05 10:35:46 AM  
Harmonia, do you believe the earth is flat? I don't. I've seen no evidence that it's round, other than what science tells me. I haven't been to space and looked down on it. I haven't seen evidence other than the "dodgy" (and by dodgy, I mean he says that it went better than he had planned) videotapes, but I'm led to believe that our government has shown other governments some evidence to get them to help us. So, as with the earth being round, I'm compelled to accept the mere existence of evidence as proof enough, even if I, personally, haven't seen it.
2002-02-05 10:35:49 AM  
WorldCitizen: Nice Constitution post...I was thinking the same thing.

Bookman: Sit down.
2002-02-05 10:36:29 AM  
Kenneth Lay deserves his day in court, his chance to face his accusers, and a jury must look at the evidence presented in that trial and decide based on that. I would not punish him based on assumptions right now.

But right now, it's looking strongly like fraud, like insider trading, like violation of multiple volumes of securities regulations. He was warned this was going on, and if it were being done without his knowledge there are steps he would have taken (if for no other reason than to protect his assets). Every indication is that he is guilty, nothing to indicate that he wasn't involved. There should already be an indictment and a warrant for his arrest.
2002-02-05 10:37:40 AM  
But seriously, the government was telling us after they passed these intrusive laws on our privacy, "If you've got nothing to hide, you don't have to worry." And the people started buying it..."I've got nothing to hide, so I don't worry." Well, Mr. Lay, if you've got nothing to hide, don't worry, the law will take good care of you. Hey, *if* you do go to jail, it probally won't be in the Federal-pound-your-ass-max one. It'll be one of the country-club prisions.
2002-02-05 10:40:01 AM  
Bennyhana, watch a ship sail over the horizon, its body disapears before the mast so proving the Earth is curved.

The difference in shadow lenths at noon in various parts of the world allows you to calculate the size of the sphere (the Greeks did this 2000 years ago)
2002-02-05 10:40:52 AM  
Flignir: You might be looking for an out to string people up without evidence, but the US Constitution prohibits that very un-American activity. No, the people are not US citizens. That was a deliberate point if you read your history. The Constitution protects all people under the jurisdiction of the United States. Where laws apply specifically to citizens the Constitution says so specifically. The mention of citizens is limited to voting rights and who can be elected to office. Justice is not limited to US citizens. That's where many Americans fail to understand their own Constitution (if they've actually read it).
It is the same as if you are in Germany or England. You have to be treated with the same judicial rights as their citizens. When you go on vacation in Germany you won't want to be denied a trial and simply exectuted at the will of the German government without any proof would you? No, probably not. That's why the Constitution refers to people where it means people and citizens where it means citizens. It's not rocket science.
2002-02-05 10:44:31 AM  
Bookman: So you can go after me for the misuse of the word "dittohead" in reference to people that ditto the government when in reality its roots lie in RushLand, but cannot counter the actual point I was making by using that example? OK. I can accept that I'm not up on my Rush terminology and its roots. I still would call anyone that dittos the US government a ditto head. I don't care where it came from or its apparent dictionary limited use to apply to certain Rush callers.
2002-02-05 10:47:07 AM  
I hope they string this clown up by his testicles and let a bunch of Mexican kids whack him like a pinata.
2002-02-05 10:47:28 AM  
And, Harmonia, we've been through the evidence before. Long series of contacts with those who did the dead, motive, means, opportunity. Plus those who have seen the evidence too sensitive to reveal and have commented on its definitiveness. It's not "GWB says so", it's GWB, Blair, Putin, King of Saudi Arabia, President of Pakistan (the Taliban's sole ally and only country that recognized them as the legitimate government). So all of these leaders, and more, they're all lying?
2002-02-05 10:48:35 AM  
Imagine that you are charged with murder and you are a volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Would you think it fair for Rick Lazzio to run an ad before your trail that said, "Hillary Clinton has a relationship with a murder. Do we really want her in office." And I'm not talking about fair to Hillary. Would it be fair to you? Or would you think, "Fark, these guys are telling the entire country I'm guilty. It doesn't matter what happens now I'm screwed. At the very least my attorney is starting off in a hole and he's going to have to dig me out of it before I can even get back to a presumption of innocents."
2002-02-05 10:50:58 AM  
>>>>WorldCitizen: Bookman: Here you go; the document you requested. It's called the Constitution of the United States of America. If you actually read it, you will notice that justice in the Constitution does not apply just to citizens, but to PEOPLE.

Then, by your argument, if the RIGHTS inherent in the Constitution apply to everyone in the world, the the DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES should also apply. OK, I'll buy into that if every single person in the world would have to:
1) pay taxes to the United States.
2) register for the U.S. Selective Service.
3) abide by all United States laws.
4) obtain a US passport when traveling anywhere.
5) abide by decisions handed down by the Supreme Court.

You can't have it both ways. The whole Constitution, or none.

Any rational person would, of course, state the obvious: the Constitution applies only to THIS country. Other countries have their own sets of rules.

Or would you rather that the United States extend its rules to the whole world? Gee, I thought that American Imperialism was what you lefties were against....

No glanding, please. Rational responses only.
2002-02-05 10:54:41 AM  
Capigula, while I'll agree that the ad may be over the top, it definitely goes both ways. And compared to what has been reported in the press, the comments by the Congresscritters is positively mild.
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