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(Sun Times)   Church ticketed for loud music during Sunday services   (suntimes.com) divider line 101
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7498 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2004 at 5:31 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-08-07 05:23:08 AM
As with robotate, I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters, but I'll be happy to try and contribute to the discussion.

First off, God intervenes to make someone righteous? Doesn't that mean then that God chooses ahead of time who's getting into heaven, and what we do here is really only a competition for his favor?

Sounds like one big gladiator tournament.


It's not like that exactly. Yes, God has make us righteous. This is something man alone can not do. However, God isn't having us fight over tickets to Heaven, nor is he only giving them to a pre-selected few. He offers his righteousness to us all equally (there isn't a 'persons-limit' in Heaven), but we have to want it, ask him for it, and strive to keep it in our hearts/minds/souls (first two aren't as hard as many think. it's the third that get's us due to our sinful nature) . God's isn't just going to just 'force' it upon us. That imo would screw with our free will more then anything.

My problem with that is that usually the motivation is the determining factor between a morally justified act and one that is immoral (lacking moral justification). If I kill someone, but it's the only way to prevent him from killing me, many would say (I think rightly so) that I haven't committed murder. I've killed someone, but I was justified in doing so, therefore it's not an immoral act.

Additionally, if someone is righteous, and the two are separate, then he could conceivably continue to exclusively act immorally, which you have to admit would be a weird scenario. God makes someone righteous, but they keep raping 3 year old handicapped children. Or, to use an extreme example, someone could fly a plane into a building and correctly maintain his heavenly righteousness. Isn't that the very thing we want to deny?


Here's where I disagree with part of Robo's statement.

While I agree that Righteousness != morals and values, I believe righteousness greatly affects ones morals and values. A person who is truely striving after God's righteousness would most likely shape their morals/values according to his 'word' (the teachings of Jesus, Ten Commandments. two best foundations); thus making it VERY difficult to have God's righteousness and willingly do something they believed was immoral. So a person who has God's righteousness wouldn't think raping 3 year olds or flying planes into buildings are good ideas (if they did, I'd go out on a gamble and say they aren't really after God's righteousness).

I'm done for now, if I contridicted myself at all back there, I apologise and once again state I'm not an expert. Merely a guy trying to make his realationship with his maker work.
 
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