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(LifeSite)   High School student suspended for wearing Pro-Life t-shirt   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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6516 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2002 at 9:53 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

236 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-01-29 03:46:11 AM  
I don't really care one way or another but if you wear that shirt, which is basically just flamebait, don't be surprised when people react.
2002-01-29 03:49:37 AM  
I hate abortion arguements.

<pro life>
There is no reason to abort a fetus, other then the selfish reasoning of a parent.

How can you say "for the good of the child"? How can you predict the future? You don't know what is going to happen. You can only guess.

How egg = chicken
yet fetus != baby

If Pro-life believes that a fetus is a baby. Why woundn't you expect them to believe that abortion is murder?

If I couldn't exist without a breathing machine, do I fail to exist in being?

Does a baby not exist because it is in fetus form because it cannot live without the mother?


Is everyone that has a ejaculation or more then 1 period a serial killer?

Can something that doesn't yet have the ability to live outside the womb be considered to live yet?

</pro choice>

Can someone be both pro-life and pro-choice?

I hate thinking.

I hate this.

I hate life.

I hate.

2002-01-29 04:08:59 AM  
How egg = chicken
yet fetus != baby

Comparing a Chicken egg to a Human? Interesting! How's school?

Of course abortion is murder, no question about it. To break the baby into little pieces and then vacuum them all up isn't a good thing you stupid farkers.
2002-01-29 04:53:16 AM  
God forbid we should teach children to think about issues, make an informed decision and take action.

What kind of people would they grow-up to be if we did?

That answer is simple. Socialists

Its ok to push messages about homosexuals, killing babies, anal fisting, and the enviorment in school but oh no you disagree with the socialist message and they kick your ass right out.
2002-01-29 05:26:01 AM  
Humans are a plague. More need to die. God bless Afghanistan.
2002-01-29 06:21:13 AM  
2002-01-29 07:12:42 AM  
two things - First, I'd like to see what happens if someone from her school wears the "Pro-Coathanger" tee from

2nd, the irony is that the group that would and could do her the most benefit by arguing on her behalf is the ACLU... which is hated by conservative christians for their liberal views... but this is a clear-cut free-speech issue
2002-01-29 07:18:01 AM  
wud u got against coathangers?? dey wad very useful in theer day. worked better more often thaan not. i steel got the one mu mammy tried to use on us chillin. onle it didn't woork?
2002-01-29 08:02:36 AM  
Paraphrased from the late, great Bill Hicks:

"there's no concensus among my friends about the pro-lifers. Half of my friends think of them as annoying idiots. The other half think of them as evil farks. I myself sit on the fence, I tend to think of them as annoying evil idiot farks"

RIP Bill Hicks
2002-01-29 08:09:44 AM  
I think that since the school risks life and limb from being shot by the little bastards that they can mandate whatever the hell they want as far as a dress code. Much like work, the only real choices/freedoms you have are either to go and follow the rules or stay home and accept the consequences.

I am all for standing up for your beliefs, but her best move would be to just keep herself and others from getting laid (there were a lot of girls in my high school that excelled like this; the woman I took to prom and eventually married was not one of them).

Stopping abortion is not about wearing a shirt. It is about keeping your pants on until you feel ready to take responsibility for your own actions.
2002-01-29 08:45:39 AM  

What exactly was funny about what I posted?
2002-01-29 10:33:14 AM  
Today I learned how valuable freedom of expression is... unless you offend someone. Yesterday I learned how important the right to privacy is... unless someone thinks you have something naughty on you. The day before, about pursuit of happiness... unless someone thinks you look funny.

You learn so much in school.
2002-01-29 10:56:17 AM  
Why can't she dress herself in that t-shirt? It's her body!
2002-01-29 11:18:57 AM  
I can see how the shirst is offensive- she's saying that abortion is akin to genocide.

Oops- that's not offensive.

It's not that Abortion is good or bad, but the fact that she wore this shirt when she KNEW that it would anger people. she should be allowed to wear the shirt, which exspresses her opinion. Just let other people wear shirts that are as offensive and rub it in her face just as much.

01-28-02 10:51:40 PM Rengeek wrotePro-Life?
What does that mean?
Is there and Anti-Life group?

They use that term because it helps justify their point of view, and by choosing that name makes the other side look bad. It's the same thing as the Pr-Choice side.
What?!?1 You're Anti-Life? Anti-choice?

Either way you're a murderer or an opressor. :P

Think about it: she could go up to the people an say, "I think that abortion is wrong because blah blah blah." Then the guyu could say, "I think it's fine because blah blah blah."

Her shirt ORDERS you to come to her viewpoint, as if she doesn't even consider abortions as something anyone could every want to choose.
That's why it's offensive.
2002-01-29 11:30:12 AM  
Deef: it's not a child. in the first trimester it hasn't even developed nerves. It's a clump of cells.
Actually, the first nerves develop extremely quickly. The stage at which the first primitive nerves develop even gets its own name: neurula. This state is reached within a matter of days.

As for it being a "clump of cells", I'll grant that it doesn't like a person, at least from an everyday perspective. But there are people out there who look very different from what we tend to think of "normal" humans. Fark ran a story recently about a kid born with a vestigial tail; this isn't the first time that has happened. I actually personally know someone with vestigial gill slits. Are you prepared to deny the humanity of these people? If you are, you're applying a double-standard, and I think we can both agree that applying a double-standard isn't good.

Then, of course, there's the issue of development. A fetus isn't as developmentally far along as an adult. But a newborn child isn't really all that much farther along. Among mammals, humans are notorious for having young that are not all that far along in the developmental cycle. There are animals which have young less far along, but not many (kangaroos and other marsupials come to mind, but that's about it). Would you legalize killing afour-year-old child just because it hasn't hit puberty? I don't think you would. But I don't see any truly objective standard by which you can draw a line otherwise, so you're again applying a double-standard. That isn't good.

OK, so is a fetus an organ? Nope. Two major reasons for this. One, a human doesn't have organs with a different genetic makeup from their own, at least not by ordinary means (transplants are another issue, but given the need for immunosuppressants and such to prevent rejection, I don't see how this would strengthen your claim). Second, an organ is designed for permanent residence in a person's body, barring extraordinary circumstances. A fetus isn't; sure,it resides there for a time, but inevitably it leaves (perhaps barring the extraordinary circumstance where mother and child die).

...and so on, and so forth. If someone can provide me an objective, scientific proof that a fetus isn't human, I'd be more than willing to consider it. But the only truly objective science I've seen points to the contrary. Namely that a fetus has the same genetic makeup as a human, it can't reliably be considered a part of anything else (for the reasons I've described above), and assuming it's kept alive, it grows into an mature human being within a number of years (which is a little different for everyone, but generally from eleven to sixteen or so). It would seem to me, then, that it ought to be considered a human being from the moment it acquires those characteristics. Namely, conception. Prove to me otherwise -and I ask for evidence to back it up- and I'll consider it. I might even change my mind, if you can provide something truly compelling. I'm not a zealot; I simply see no way at this point for the other side to back up its claims in any fair manner.

And what of abortions because of illnesses, like downs syndrome or severe mental retardation? Seems to me it is more of a wrong to have a child with a severe dissability. To subject them to the life our mentally ill lead. I have a brother who is severly mentally handicapped and I can assure you it is a pretty awful life.

I, too, have a relative with severe mental retardation ("had" is a better word, I suppose; he died several years ago, at the age of 48). Having this relative has led me to do more work with the mentally disabled. I bring this up, because what I've seen is very different from what you've claimed. The people themselves don't appear to be sufffering; they make the best of what they have, and get on with their lives. And the parents and relatives I've worked, invariably, are some of the happiest people I've ever seen. I don't doubt there's a great shock at first, and even a period of angst for most. But this period ends, if you let it.

I cannot possibly know what has happened with your brother. But I do know this: it doesn't have to be the way that it has apparently unfolded for him.

Oh; and finally the "potential life" argument. It's crap. Complete crap. You can't bargain with potentialities, except in Las Vegas and on Wall Street. There is life, and there is non-life. In this case, it's life.

But then again I am just an imoral atheist.

I can't comment on your morals, not knowing you personally and all. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt in that argument; it's called "innocent until proven guilty" and all that. So I don't think you're immoral. I don't think anyone here is, based on their beliefs. I do think you should give what I've said some thought; I intend to do the same for what's been said here.

Down's syndrom is pretty damn easy to detect. Trisomy of the 21st chromosone causes Down's Syndrome. You have it or you don't.

It's not that simple (things seldom are). It's possible to have trisomy-21 without actually developing Down's. I don't remember the exact odds, myself, but this is why such testing is always a matter of what will probably happen, rather than what definitely will happen.

And finally, for those who think "issues shouldn't be brought up in schools": What's the purpose of school, if not to teach students how to think for themselves? And how can that be done if there's no debate? When you suppress debates over the issues, you're taking a side, whether you realize it or not. The only way to truly stay neutral is to allow debate to take place, and in the end, that's better anyway.
2002-01-29 11:41:25 AM  
Sorry, missed this:

if a mother is on her way to get an abortion and is hit by a driver and the mother is killed. that would be 2 counts of manslaughter. one for the mom and one for the unborn child. its considered a person there.

Why is this different from having an abortion?

The mother choses not to have a child. (Abortion) It's her choice, she makes it. The law supports her (if she has it in time, of course).

The mother may or may not have been wanting to have the child. If the fetus isn't a 'person' yet, she wanted to continue carrying it until it would become one. That means that in the future where there would have been two lives, there are none.

That's why it would be two counts.
that is, of course, if the law works like that. That's just my using logic to follow through.
2002-01-29 11:42:37 AM  
You all offend me....

I plan to speak to FARK administration about banning all of you. Then I shall approach the ACLU about filing an official lawsuit against each and every one of you.

I shall also employ Jesse Jackson so he can run to the media and drag your names through the mud.

Yes, I'd much rather cause anyone who offends me discomfort, rather than learn how to be tolerant.


[image from too old to be available]
2002-01-29 11:50:49 AM  
Every child has chromosomes unique from its mother. The only difference between an unborn child and a 50 year old child is time and nutrition.
2002-01-29 12:30:57 PM  
They don't want things in school that can cause disputes. Any socio-political issue or totem that has vehement supporters on either side is a potential problem in a place where they already have more than enough. The problem wasn't that they disagreed with her or some such nonsense, it was simply that they can't allow kids to wear things that are potentially troublesome. You wouldn't want kids wearing shirts that say "The followers of Christ have killed 100x more innocent people than the followers of Allah" or on the lighter side "I brake for your mom." More to the point, they simply don't want controversy; they would've had the same problem if the shirt said "Pro-Choice".
2002-01-29 12:37:21 PM  
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm fetus
2002-01-29 12:46:39 PM  
I've developed an arbitrary set of requirements for classifying people as human. My neighboors don't have these requirements, so I don't think they count as humans. Tonight I'm going to break into their home while they sleep and kill them to death. Then I'm going to eat their succulent brains. But it's okay, their not actually people.
2002-01-29 12:54:34 PM  
I like hearing the fundies talk about self control.

Cause they have so much of it.

So much that they want to control me, too, how cute.
2002-01-29 01:05:22 PM  
it'd be great if abortion was made illegal. I could make a ton of money in alleys with a coathanger!

Here's the basic deal fundies:

You shut the fark up and don't tell me or my wife how to live our lives, got it?

And they wonder why I hate them so much, those sick farking fundie arsewipes.
2002-01-29 01:21:42 PM  
For all you guys out there - what if it were the MALE of the species who bears the children? Would this change your views on abortion? Just some food for thought.

77% of Pro-Life leaders are men, 100% of whom will never be pregnant. Hmmmmmm!
2002-01-29 01:32:07 PM  
I know! I know this one!

....They'd be females!

TheGrazHopper - "what if it were the MALE of the species who bears the children? "
2002-01-29 01:36:51 PM  
Andrea Yates could use a man like you. Maybe the supreme court will let her off.
2002-01-29 02:54:39 PM  
Why don't you go worry about living a good life on your own and stop farking with other people's. Eh? Sound good? Now go be a good christian and tithe or something. If you don't like abortion, don't have one. I don't like it, and I can't have one, my wife doesn't like it, and she isn't gonna have one. We don't tell others what to do, though, that's for simple minded sanctimonious assholes like you.
2002-01-29 03:08:57 PM  
opinions are like assholes
everyone has one and they general stink.

I think we could have wrapped this whole line of debate and name calling with a simple line.

I have my views, you have yours.
2002-01-29 03:17:27 PM  
The Supreme Court should do something about simple minded sanctimonious laws against infanticide -- what right do they have to interfere in parent's rights?
2002-01-29 03:26:11 PM  
If you dont like infanticide, dont kill your children. But I hope you have the common decency not to impose your moral views on Andrea Yates.
2002-01-29 04:24:22 PM  
I think we should make abortion illegal for all-male marriages, just to see how it goes.
2002-01-29 08:49:40 PM  

>Here's the basic deal fundies:

You shut the fark up and don't tell me or my wife how to live our lives, got it? <

Finally. Somebody got it right. And it's so simple. I agree with you 100%!

If I want to smack my wife up because dinner is cold, that's my right.

If I want to rape my 14-year-old daughter because she's starting to look pretty hot, well, that's my right as well.

And if I want to torture and kill members of your family in my basement... that's my right too! I love Leftist America!

(disclaimer for the irony-impaired: That's sarcasm, Chester)
2002-01-30 12:15:22 AM  
How does that distungish from, say, a monkey fetus? What is different?

And what is so bad or wrong about monkeys?
2002-01-30 12:16:32 AM  
EvilScientist-What's crawled up your ass,sir?
2002-01-30 12:20:26 AM  
My opinion:
While I am anti-abortion(on human grounds,not religious),this sort of shirt does seem like flamebait.Maybe school uniforms are a good idea.No one can really offend anyone else that way.
2002-01-30 01:04:55 AM  
Wow, I feel so proud! Not only do I live in St. Thomas, but I also go to Central Elgin!
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