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(Arkansas Democrat-Gazette)   Are you a felon who wants a gun? Just tell the gun shop not to run the background check within three days. If they don't, "the law says the purchase must go through"   (nwanews.com) divider line 504
    More: Stupid  
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15711 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2004 at 10:24 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-07-27 11:34:19 AM
damitjim Boise is a troll.

woo hoo! I'm a troll!

I talk about taking guns that are specifically made, not for hunting or self defense, but rather for killing people off the street. I talk about not making bullets specifically designed to shred intestines or pierce armor (when was the last time you say a deer wearing a kevlar vest?). I talk about closing loopholes and making sure that simply by claiming to not technically be a dealer you still have to run the same checks on people. I talk about enacting a couple laws to close loopholes so the existing laws function like people think they already do.

I'm from a "hunting" state with lots of wilderness, and one which gave Bush his widest margin of victory in 2000 (and will again), I respect gun owners, hunters and sportsmen. Yet I have the gall to talk about reasonable solutions to something we can all agree is a problem, and I'm a troll...

Wow...
 
2004-07-27 11:34:35 AM
Kind of reminds me of the old joke/bad story:

A man is walking down the street with a gun in his pocket, fresh out the shop (obtained legally). A policeman pulls him over, and decides to arrest him for having the potential to commit murder (bored policeman, along with the legality of carrying a firearm in the street on view).

The guy says to the police officer; "you better arrest me for rape as well then"

The police officer replies "Why? Have you raped someone?"

The guy replies "No, but i've got the f**king equipment"

'Tis all totalitarian to me...
 
2004-07-27 11:35:01 AM
Guns don't kill people, it's the internal lacerations caused by the bullet fired from the gun operated by the person that bears a grudge against the person struck by the bullet that kill people.

/only coyboys need guns
 
2004-07-27 11:35:20 AM
LordGreyBoots If you want to buy a gun at gunshow (or anywhere) from a licensed gun dealer, you have to undergo a background check. The location of the purchase is irrelevant.

Ah, but if you want to buy a gun from an unlicensed dealer, very often you need nothing but a handful of cash and the sale is still legal. Depending on the state and circumstance.

I am a felon myself. While there are guns in my home, I don't technically own any. It's still a violation of the law as far as I know.

I'm a non-violent felon. I've never hurt anyone on purpose, let alone shot anyone. I really don't plan to any time soon either.

You'd have to be a total idiot to not be able to get an unregistered gun in America. And those people probably don't need guns anyway.
 
2004-07-27 11:36:07 AM
damitjim - Boise is a troll

Now wait a minute here... Oh, different Boise, nevermind.

To address the flamethrower issue (since some flames are being thrown here virtually), the Army isn't the only group that has them. A flamethrower is an agricultural device and is not considered a weapon. It is not an NFA regulated device (machine gun, destructive device, or "any other weapon") and requires no special licensing or checks. So go build yourself a flamethrower and prepare for battle with the Army. Just be ready to be shot by the well placed sniper that you didn't even know was there.

/this Boise likes and owns many guns...
 
2004-07-27 11:36:10 AM
paperforplastic
and I bet you deserved it.
 
2004-07-27 11:36:35 AM
i'd buy that, but it needs a brass ring.
 
2004-07-27 11:36:40 AM
Boise,

These "loopholes" you talk about are what the Dems like to tout. These are problems with Federal law that are almost 100% of the time already covered by a state or local law. It's a real shame Congress doesn't feel like a law counts unless they make it.
 
2004-07-27 11:38:18 AM
2004-07-27 11:36:35 AM kerouac555

it needs a brass ring.

Don't we all?
 
2004-07-27 11:38:34 AM
this sucks... at least most were recoverd

/ Pro-Gun
// Pro background checks
/// Pro required training/licencing
//// anti registration
 
2004-07-27 11:39:17 AM
Boise3981

yes, guns can be made for SPORT. 2nd amendment isn't specific to HUNTING.
yes, bullets are made to kill. That is there inteded purpose.

/buy a clue
 
2004-07-27 11:40:21 AM
inteded = intended

/preview is nice if you use it. : )
 
2004-07-27 11:40:34 AM
paperforplastic, straw man much?

If no one had guns, they would still have guns, illegally. The number of legally owned guns used in violent crimes is very small and since conceal-carry laws started here in Texas (for instance) violent crimes have been reduced quite a bit. I read a statistic that the murder rate went down like 20% or something in Florida when they got conceal-carry.
 
2004-07-27 11:43:01 AM
URTheBallLickers - "If no one had guns, they would still have guns, illegally."

Let's just take a moment to enjoy that statement.

Okay, I'm finished now. Go about your business.
 
2004-07-27 11:44:33 AM
damitjim
These "loopholes" you talk about are what the Dems like to tout. These are problems with Federal law that are almost 100% of the time already covered by a state or local law. It's a real shame Congress doesn't feel like a law counts unless they make it.


Unfortunatly they're not really.

While I'm not as familiar nation wide, I do know that in Nevada, Colorado, and Idaho (3 states in my general area) the "collector" vs. "dealer" loophole exists. (And there is no qualifications to be a collector other than simply declairing yourself one). Nevada particluarly, has very loose gun laws and, being on the border of California, 1 out of every 3 guns used in a crime in California can be traced to a sale in Nevada.

Unfortunatly, as long as 1 state fails to live up to it's responsibility, it's everybody's problem.

There are loopholes in federal law, the states aren't closing them, the feds need to.

(PS this boise likes guns too... Just doesn't see the point of guns designed to kill people... He thinks it makes us all more unsafe, not safer. Doesn't see a problem with closing loopholes. Doesn't see a problem not making or selling guns with no legit purpose.)
 
2004-07-27 11:45:18 AM
I meant if no one were allowed to have guns, but whatever.
 
2004-07-27 11:45:21 AM
if i had some heavier weapons, i could get my own brass ring.
 
2004-07-27 11:46:50 AM
URTheBallLickers - much better. You've graduated from gibberish to paranoid assumption in record time. Good work fella.
 
2004-07-27 11:46:50 AM
Teflon Billy strikes again.

Somebody care to post a pic?
 
2004-07-27 11:47:16 AM
ohhh, businesses that hold ffl's (federal firearms liscense)can choose to not sell guns to anyone they want. I can think of a couple times where I have refused to sell a gun to someone for different reasons. For instance, two guys were looking at guns. One was asking to look at them, while the other just stood around staring at the ceiling. When the guy looking at the guns found one he liked, his friend decided he was going to buy it instead. I didn't sell it to him, even though the feds said I could when I called. I didn't sell it to him because that would have been considered a "straw purchase." There was another time when a guy who I was pretty sure was up to no good wanted to buy one, but being the responsible dealer that I am, refused to sell it to him. I wish I knew how many crimes I prevented by doing the right thing.

The assalut weapon ban-
This is the biggest load of bs in a while. I have an ak-47 that is N O T considered an "assault weapon" because it only has 2 of the 3 "evil features" of an assault weapon. It has a pistol grip, and the ability to accept high cappacity mags, like my 75 round drum, but since it doesn't have a flash hider or a bayonett lug, its not an assault rifle. Think about that when you think the ban is effective. Also, any gun that was produced before the ban can legally be made into an assault weapon if one so desires... In fact, my shotgun looks a HELL of a lot scarrier than any assault rifle Ive seen for sale lately. Shotguns aren't considered assault weapons, even if I have a folding stock, forward pistol grip, and a bayonet on it trench gun style from ww2, and I can gurantee with the right ammo, i can fark things up just as bad, if not worse with that than i can with my ak and 75rd drum...

My mom always used to say "Why do people need handguns? They're only to used to kill people..." after she went TARGET shooting with me one day, she went and bought one because she hadn't realised how much fun it can be to test you r hand/eye coordination with one. Now she owns more handguns than I do.
 
2004-07-27 11:48:42 AM
"and I bet you deserved it"
chachi88: uh, yeah... some kid who doesnt talk to anyone, or have any friends deserves get the shiat kicked out of him for being an outsider moving to a town where everyone is related (seriously).
 
2004-07-27 11:51:29 AM
dukefluke, so you're saying that if guns were outlawed, there would be no guns?

Like England where the only people that don't have guns are the police?
 
2004-07-27 11:51:42 AM
my mini-14 has a barrel shroud (that motherfarker gets hot... i like it to cool quicker), a flash hider (my indoor range is dim enough that the flash is really annoying), and i'm pretty sure it can take high capacity clips (i know it takes up to 40's i only have 20's because you can't get bigger here in MD), never seen a drum for her though) is that considerd an assult weapon?
 
2004-07-27 11:53:13 AM
saboisgod The reason I came across the end of the ban was because I was thinking of buying one of those AK-47s with 10% American parts, but decided to wait and see if I could get one with a folding stock if the ban expired. They have been very quiet on the issue.

Can you recommend one by chance? I forgot which one I had settled on at the time.
 
2004-07-27 11:54:42 AM
"My mom always used to say "Why do people need handguns? They're only to used to kill people..." after she went TARGET shooting with me one day, she went and bought one because she hadn't realised how much fun it can be to test you r hand/eye coordination with one. Now she owns more handguns than I do."

That's right. Because the only way to test your hand/eye coordination is to fire a gun. And having fired one gun, you of course need to go out and get several more guns.

You people really are a bunch of farking trigger-happy idiots. ANY excuse WHATSOEVER is enough for you to decide to keep a dangerous weapon around the house. No no, go right ahead and act all surprised the next time there's a Colombine massacre.
 
2004-07-27 11:54:59 AM
damnitjim: yes, guns can be made for SPORT.

True, but then why the need for armor piercing or flesh shreding bullets... shouldn't blanks work fine for paper targets?

If a gun, by it's very existance, makes the general public less safe, shouldn't we all be willing to set aside a part of our "sport"?

2nd amendment isn't specific to HUNTING.

Now, I would like to point out, you brought it up... but the second amendment actually says:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I'm willing to bet you're not a member of a militia, well regulated or otherwise so you wouldn't technically have the right to "bear arms". But that goes back to my Boobies about "we're not debating IF the line exists, but rather where to place it".

Lets start with an easy one: Isn't it irresponsible to let the assault weapons ban expire? Did it really effect a single law abiding citizen when it went into effect in 1995? Yet, nation wide, gun crime dropped 12%...

/buy a clue

got one, thanks. I'd like to recomend one to you though...
 
2004-07-27 11:55:27 AM
1) Seems to be a bit of confusion about the check process. A regular FFL must initiate the instant check when selling a gun and cannot release the gun to the buyer UNTIL either the check comes back OK or the FBI doesn't respond within the alotted time. What this article is saying is that 0.04% of the time, the FBI did not complete the check within that period and the buyer should not have passed. That's a pretty small failure rate, to me. When you factor in the 97% of these that were recovered, you're approaching the legendary five 9s reliabilitly (.999987) and dealing with 210 firearms nationwide. It is certainly not that the FFL decided to not run the check.

2) You don't have to call yourself a collector to tranfer guns to another resident of your own state without a background check (barring state statutes) regardless of if the transfer takes place at a gunshow or not. Reatil FFLs at a gunshow must run the check. Also, according to Department of Justice figures, only 2% of guns possed by inmates at the time of arrest came from a flea market or gunshow. Only 12% from a retail store or pawnshop. The remainder came from either private transfers NOT at a gunshow (family, friends, on the street) or some other, illegal, source.

3) Any transaction that crosses state lines has to go through an FFL. There is a Federal collector's license (Type 3 FFL) that allows the holder to purchase "Curios and Relics" (firearms that are greater than 50 years old or have otherwise been designated as such by the BATFE) and have them shipped directly to their licensed address. There are NFA items on this list, and the NFA regulations must still be followed, but they can be shipped directly to you.
 
2004-07-27 11:56:32 AM
pre-ban folding stocks are available on ebay (at least for my gun)... i like the rifle stock better though, look and feel.
 
2004-07-27 11:57:16 AM
why the need for armor piercing or flesh shreding bullets

helloo... if you want to pierce armor or shred flesh, that's why.
 
2004-07-27 11:57:58 AM
URTheBallLickers : "straw man much?" what the fark does that mean, anyway?

"I read a statistic that the murder rate went down like 20% or something in Florida when they got conceal-carry."

/i read a statistic that said 98% of statistics were made up on the spot.
 
2004-07-27 11:58:07 AM
for everyone attempting to make that stupid milita argument

Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes

(a)

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)

The classes of the militia are -

(1)

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia
 
2004-07-27 11:58:20 AM
URTheBallLickers
Like England where the only people that don't have guns are the police?


England has a dramatically lower crime rate, a dramatically lower violent crime rate, and dramatically fewer gun deaths than the US (even when adjusted for population differences).

So yeah, English style gun laws aren't the worst thing that was ever thought of.
 
2004-07-27 11:58:23 AM
damn, dukefluke, who's paranoid now??

Legal ownership of a gun is not a requirement for going batshiat insane
 
2004-07-27 12:01:24 PM
oh and well regulated in the times it was written ment practice with your gun... which i do weekly
 
2004-07-27 12:02:10 PM
Search Wikipedia for "straw man". Fark won't allow links to it, or I'd put it here.

It was an insult.

Just helpin'
 
2004-07-27 12:03:25 PM
Here you go

first google link even, documented and everything.
 
2004-07-27 12:06:27 PM
Like England where the only people that don't have guns are the police?


To be fair, the only people I've ever seen in Britain with guns were policemen.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2004-07-27 12:06:43 PM
Having burned through 1,000 rounds of .45 ACP in my shiny new Thompson M1 only two days ago, I feel the need to weigh in on this whole gun issue: That was just about the most fun one can have while still wearing pants, and the minute I can do it again, I will.

That is all I have to contribute.
 
2004-07-27 12:08:18 PM
Who in the hell thinks a felon is going to waltz into a gun shop to buy a gun?

You anti-gun folks are just plain stupid.
 
2004-07-27 12:10:32 PM
URTheBallLickers: Here you go

More guns = more crime - or at least a much smaller reduction in the crime rate. A 1999 study by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence), using FBI crime statistics, demonstrated that liberalizing CCW laws may have an adverse effect on a state's crime rate. Between 1992 and 1998, the violent crime rate in states which kept strict CCW laws fell by an average of 30%. The violent crime rate for the states that had weak CCW laws during this same time saw their violent crime rates drop by only 15%. Nationally, violent crime declined by 25% during that same period. Clearly, states with stricter CCW laws have found more effective ways to reduce their crime rates than letting more people carry hidden handguns.
 
2004-07-27 12:10:55 PM
wee, your name says it all... that sounds like fun

// WEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeee
 
2004-07-27 12:11:44 PM
Tonight for my gun lover's anonymous meeting, I think I will share this "war" story.

When I was in college, I used to have a certain affection for particular types of BREWed beverages, and I often went on expeditions of grand adventure and great peril in search of said beverages.

One night, while engaged in this excellent struggle for aquiring my beverages, there were fisticuffs involved. Shocking, I know , but fisticuffs, nonetheless. And of course, being the open minded and equally opportunity minded person that I am, I was sharing certain roles with some female compatriots (fellow ROTC cadets), who indeed were invovled in the aforementioned fisticuffs.

Well, some other guys who had their own agenda decided that we could no longer pursue our beverage that night, as a result of our fisticuffs, and let us stay at their place downtown for the night. This was much nicer than my own apartment. There were many interesting people to talk to there, but they had the weirdest damn sink/toilet combination thing I have ever seen (but I digress).

Fast forward a dozen years or so, and my future bride is operating a fast-food/convenience store group of (just two stores) and responsible for all the cash. I bought her a nice, legal SP101 Ruger .38 Sp. with a samller frame/grip set-up for her dainty hand, since she dropping about $5K+ each night. No problem. Perfectly legal, never been "used". Fired a bunch and maintained, but not "used".

Then the Brady Bill passes to law and now I can't get a purchase permit. Wasn't trying to get another for myself, I was just serving as referrence on a friends app., but you can't 'refer' if you are ineligble yourself. So, my bud's paperwork gets booted because of me and I go see the Deputy Officer in Charge and he tells me I'm not elegible any longer because of the fight back in college. Since there were females involved in a violent offence (fisticuffs?), I get tagged in the violent crimes involving involving females group. I guess it's not really relevant that the female in question was actually fighting on my relative side of the two groups of brew pursuers. (And she was doing well. She she hjad recently vactioned at Ft. Lewis for her summer break, and was displaying some Individual Techniques to a couple "towny" females).

I really don't have any problem with reasonable gun regulation. I am more concerned about the people who do the regulating. Now tell me how getting in a bar fight when your drunk 20 years ago with your female "Ranger Buddy" banninate one from a purchase permit.

You thought I was an alcoholic didn't ya?
 
2004-07-27 12:11:57 PM
[binnster]
"Like England where the only people that don't have guns are the police?

To be fair, the only people I've ever seen in Britain with guns were policemen."

Ever been to Bradford, West Yorkshire? No guns on cops there but plenty of Pakistanis are packing...

/Bradford not such a nice place to live
 
2004-07-27 12:13:44 PM
ok.. so, i want some of you pro-gun people to TELL ME WHY YOU LIKE GUNS SO MUCH AND WHY YOU LIKE FIRING THEM.... can you articulate your passion? (and not, "i like to hunt"... THAT doesnt explain your obsession with the single most PHALLIC creation of man (besides dildos.. and skyscrapers... and the oil pump)
 
2004-07-27 12:14:19 PM
The fact that it is more difficult to get a drivers licence , then a gun , is scary.

How about making the licence to own a gun actually mean something? You know like you need a 1 month training perdiod before allowed to buy guns? Just like driving.

But oh noooo.. Here come the gun-nuts " IT IS MY FREEDOM TO BUY THIS AK OVER HERE! IT IS MY RIGHT BECAUSE THERE IS A LAW THAT WAS WRITTEN 200 YEARS AGO! "

Stupid idiots.
 
2004-07-27 12:14:35 PM
i like them because they cut down on the proliferation of sullen green-haired people.
 
2004-07-27 12:15:24 PM
I'd recommend a romanian one. you can get it for about 300 to 400 dollars. they work great. I own 2 of em, and wouldnt get rid of em for anything. never had a prblem ith either one jamming or anything, and thats after running 3000+ rounds through it wiht VERY little cleaning.

"2004-07-27 11:51:42 AM HoChiWaWa


my mini-14 has a barrel shroud (that motherfarker gets hot... i like it to cool quicker), a flash hider (my indoor range is dim enough that the flash is really annoying), and i'm pretty sure it can take high capacity clips (i know it takes up to 40's i only have 20's because you can't get bigger here in MD), never seen a drum for her though) is that considerd an assult weapon?"

prolly, but i'd have to see it first to say for sure...but from how you described it, id say yes.

"You people really are a bunch of farking trigger-happy idiots. ANY excuse WHATSOEVER is enough for you to decide to keep a dangerous weapon around the house. No no, go right ahead and act all surprised the next time there's a Colombine massacre."

Yeah, I would be suprised, because I keep mine locked in a 2000lb safe taht is bolted to a concrete floor from inside the safe, which also happens to be fire proof to like 2000 degrees farenheit. The only times I dont keep em locked up are when a)I go to sleep I have one under my pillow, but thats cuz my house has beeen broken into 2 times. When I leave for work, it gets locked back up. b)when I take em out to the range to target shoot, and as soon as they get home, they get locked right up. So yes, I would be suprised if mine where used columbine style.

I live by myself, so if you want to break in these days, in the words of Jr. Soprano in the first season, "Dont come back here again. If you do, you better come large or not come at all."
Theres nothin in my house thats worth you dying over.
I respect human life, up until the point where human life decides not to respect me and my safety.

Remember how easy it was for the nazis to start killing anyone they didn't like? It was because they had completely disarmed their citizens... who couldn't fight back against an oppresive, murderous regime... Check your local high school history book.
 
2004-07-27 12:16:26 PM
URTheBallLickers: Here's another for you:

An August 2000 study by the Violence Policy Center revealed that, from January 1996 through April 2000, the arrest rate for weapon-related offenses among Texas concealed handgun license holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population of Texas.

Law-abiding citizens with the best intentions underestimate how hard it is to use a gun for self-defense successfully. Even highly-trained police officers lose control of their handguns; according to the FBI, 5 out of 41 law enforcement officers (12%) killed by gunfire in the line of duty in 1999 were killed by an adversary with the officer's own service weapon. And police officers know that the very sight of a gun can escalate a situation, so that instead of simply losing your wallet, you can lose your life. That's why almost every major law enforcement organization - including the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the International Association of Chiefs of Police - opposes the weakening of CCW laws.
 
2004-07-27 12:16:54 PM
TigerSpirit Then you are not pro gun.
 
2004-07-27 12:17:47 PM
Mr. Bungle At Work,

Nah, never had a reason to visit Bradford, and now I have even less reason.
 
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