2004-07-27 05:36:16 PM wingnut396

You need to read futher up in the thread when one your Canadians fellows bragged that Canada has more guns per capita than the US. So, which is true? And if Canada has more guns, why don't they have more crime.

We have more homes per capita with firearms than the US does. We also have more rifles and shotguns per capita than the US does. The US, however pwns us (as the kids are want to say) when it comes to handguns per capita.

In Canada the vast majority of firearms are purchased for sport. In the US they're purchased for security.

Basically the difference all goes back to the fact that the USA is a revolutionary culture while Canada aquired it's independance peacefully. All revolutionary cultures tend to be paranoid and fearful. When you get a bunch of people who aquire power by taking up weapons and killing another bunch of people, it doesn't take them too long to realize that some other bunch of people could take up weapons and come and kill them. This tends to make the people and the governments a little jumpy.

I think everyone can agree...

Crossbows are fricken cool!

Wow, skeet with a Tommy gun? I'm not a bad shot, but that sounds pretty hard core... :-)

Oh yeah, in case anyone was wondering what kind of machine gun nut I am, the Thompson I own is semi-auto, and requires no special licenses, permits or fees to own (although it will require a Short Barreled Rifle transfer stamp once I get the 10.5" barrel on it). It's the military style one, not a Chicago typewriter sort of thing. Think Saving Private Ryan and not Al Capone.

Anyone with 50 grand burning a hole in their pocket can pick up a nice deal on a set of three consecutivly-numbered Thompsons. WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Collect them all!

2004-07-27 06:04:36 PM Mad Ogre

No, we are not paranoid. We are smart.

And we look for things that make us go.

2004-07-27 06:40:17 PM arturner
since the word is now out that now some faggots pack heat.

Feh, I want my faggots packing meat, not heat.

2004-07-27 06:51:14 PM HoChiWaWa

computerboy, i mean shiat... if people really think that poorly of our government and our military to think that they'd use nukes, nape and tanks to overrun their own cities, then i'm supprised they aren't packing heat and trying to start the revolution. rather than using that as some sort of ass backwards excuse to get rid of guns.

The thing is, all the revolutionary scenerios don't involve a civil war against the current form of government. They all envision a government that's become a dark and twisted blend of The Palpatine Empire and Nazi Germany with cruel heartless stormtoopers who think nothing of barging into your house and raping your personal freedoms. But somehow they'll stop short of dropping daisycutters and smartbombs on rebel strongholds or sending tanks in to subdue domestic enemies of the state.

You're afraid of this evil government and it's kill-bots but somehow you're still convinced that even when faced with their own extinction they'll fight in such a way that Johnny Lunchbox and his 9mm pistol will still have a chance of winning.

I think if your government ever becomes this dark imperal souless nazi force you all seem to fear it will become, it won't really have any compunctions against making an example by flattening a city that's sympathetic to the "enemy".

Besides, once the government brands the neo-revolutionaries as the enemy how much support do you think you'll be getting from the jobless, starving masses when you're the ones the government blames for their troubles.

You've already got the most effective weapon against government tyrany that mankind has every created. It's called a vote. It's just a pity so few of you choose to use it. Efforts spent convincing more people to exercise their right to vote will do more to prevent your government from becoming a cruel and opressive regime than effort spent convincing more people they need to stockpile weapons and await the revolution.

Okay, so let's say the day has come. Your and your militia of gun owners have decided your government has gone too far and the only option is to start killing people. The revolution is here. What's going to happen?

Well from the picture you paint your government is completely unconcerned with human life. It's trained it's police force to be brutal, efficient and cruel. After all, the police is only used against enemies of the state and enemies of the state are less than human anyways. It's also probably trained it's military to be brutal, efficient and cruel. The military isn't going to be used against it's own people, just enemies of the state. You're either with the Empire or you're an enemy. There is no middle ground. There is no grey area. It doesn't matter if you're born in the Empire or not, if you're not for the Empire you're against it. If you're against the Empire you're an enemy. If you're an enemy, you're not human.

Where is this rebel resistance going to come from? Well the cities will probably be pretty heavily armed police fortresses. The police will be trained to be heartless jackasses as you believe they are now and police, unlike most soldiers, are trained for urban combat. The resistance isn't going to be very strong in the cities. Most city dwellers are too concerned with getting their next paycheque to worry about joining an armed resistance. Beside's they've been taught since birth that those who are against the Empire are enemies and evil persons and the Stormtroopers are there to protect them and uphold the peace. No, any resistance in the city will be crushed pretty easily.

The rural areas are where the resistance will spring up. They've probably been training for years and stockpiling weapons. What weapons have they been stockpiling? Well the weapons the corporations (who really run things) feel safe in selling them. Assault rifles, machine guns, rockets, grenades, pistols, shotguns, submachine guns, some body armor. Nothing that will be a serious threat to the weapons the corporate empire itself owns. None the less the resistance gets started, some rural towns are swarmed. Empire loyalists are taken out in the streets and exicuted and the small local police departments are quickly over run.

Food supplies to the cities are cut off and people begin to starve. The Empire blames this on the rebels. The rebels are the enemy. They want you to starve. They want to overthrow the Empire that has given you peace and order. They have been taking loyal citizens out into the streets and shooting them like dogs. The rebels are evil. Blah blah blah. Now to the starving populace of the cities who are only interested in getting their next paycheque and watching their big screen TVs how sypathetic do you think they'll be to your rebellion. Chances are they'll be informing on their neighbours pretty quick if they suspect they're sypathetic to the rebels. They'll be demanding that the Empire drop daisycutters on the rebel strongholds.

The Empire, in the interests of protecting it's loyal citizens protects itself by dropping daisycutters on the rebel strongholds. The military then moves in and cleans up the survivors with robotic armored assault vehilces and powered armor suits and weapons the likes of which John Redneck has never dreamed. On the off chance that a few soldiers might not have been trained sufficiently enough to callously kill these enemies of the state they'll make sure no soldier is fighting against his own hometown. It's easy enough to kill people you don't know when you've been brought up your whole life beliving they're inhuman anyways.

But let's suppose the rebels do manage to hold out for awhile longer. What's going to happen to the multinational corporations who are really running things when they feel threatened. Well first, they'll pull out their businesses and cause economic collapse and chaos. Now the starving, jobless masses will really love you and your shotgun toting rebels. Next, they'll send in their own corporate mercinaries, for security purposes, of course. These will be foreigners who have probably had a life far more brutal than that of your typical rebel or loyalist and they will think nothing of chewing your throat out with their own teeth for an extra 50 cents in their paycheque, let alone care about unleashing a biological, chemical, or incindiary attack against these upstarts. They're better armed, they're better trained, and they really, really, really, want to kill you not for anything like political ideals or other such nebulous and maliable concepts, but because they have been raised to be cruel and heartless killing machines.

In the end the rebellion is crushed and the loyalists will gladdly accept even more Empire control in their lives for fear of going through such a hell again.

But let's suppose beyond all reason the rebellion manages to defeat the military, the police, and the corporate mercinaries and is now battering the gates of the Empire's last stronghold. With their backs against the wall and their fingers on the button, with their very own survival at stake do you not think this evil Empire will employ a scorched earth nuclear strike as an act of sheer desperation and panic, if not revenge?

If you let things get to the point where you need an armed resistance to put them right then guess what. You've already lost.

You should be concentrating on grassroots political movements. You should be raising people's consciousness and giving them truly alternative, viable voting choices. That will do far more for ensuring your continued freedom than stockpiling weapons ever will.

2004-07-27 08:32:17 PM HoChiWaWa
but our forfathers belived we could do it as they did...

That's because your fore fathers had absolutely no concept of a bomb so big it could destroy an enitre city being deployed by a flying machine 3 miles up in the air. Your forefathers had no concept of massive machines of metal costing millions of dollars able to kill hundreds of soldiers, much less civillians with a few well lobbed shells. Your forefathers had no concept of armoured robotic assault vehicles carring machine guns capable of leveling a small building, or flying gunships making deadly Figure Eights in the air while laying down pinpoint accurate machinegun fire. Your forefathers had no concept of artillery capable of devistating an entire city from over a dozen miles away.

It was much easier to launch an armed rebellion back in the days when both sides were equally armed.

The government also has a hell of a lot more money to spend on bullets that you do.

Like I said. If you allow your government to get to the point where it can only be removed by armed revolution then you've already lost.