Guns are for wankers.

Wankers are for guns.

"I'm glad I live in New York. It is illegal for a felon to possess a gun. Period. Even if the sale ends up legal via some loophole, they still can't have it."

Err, it's a FEDERAL law that says felons can't have guns, so they can't have them anywhere in the country. Doesn't stop them though, does it?! Jeez, even I know that and I'm a goddamn Brit!

/no man-made law ever stopped anything from happening

2 things-

1. As I work in a pawn shop that holds an ffl (what a business needs to legally sell guns), this headline is totally misleading. we dont have a chioce in weather to run the check or not... If we don't, we could go to jail.

2.2004-07-27 10:34:35 AM paperforplastic


ok... seeing as we dont have to hunt for food anymore - can someone tell me WHY we even NEED guns... you know, besides protection from other people with guns.

to protect myself from our nazi government who wants to disarm us like Hitler did...

2004-07-27 10:48:06 AM kerouac555

Food for thought:

The [insert country here] military is made up of [insert country here]ians. One can only hope they will not attack their own friends, neighbors, or family.

i can honestly say that there are members of the army who actively dislike me.

Guns don't kill people. I do.

An Army of Ians?

Now thats a scary thought.

TheWizard
It is a level of trust we give to people when we allow them to have certain rights. Each right comes with its own responsabilities. If we want to consider ourselves a free people, then we cannot chip away at those rights, no matter how irrelavant they may seem at the time.

I have no use for my freedom of speech or freedom of religion at the moment (just several of many rights I do not 'need' to exercise at the moment). That does not mean that sometime in the future I will not miss them.

I thought that was particularly well-written. You got me thinking, and I really don't like guns.

2004-07-27 10:57:20 AM kerouac555


i can honestly say that there are members of the army who actively dislike me.

Then keep that flamethrower ready, grasshopper.

Couple of notes:

Its against the law everywhere in the USA for felons to acquire, own, or possess firearms (not just in NYC).

If you want to buy a gun at gunshow (or anywhere) from a licensed gun dealer, you have to undergo a background check. The location of the purchase is irrelevant.

Gun dealers are required to be federally licensed (including at gunshows).

Most background checks take seconds to run. They should all take seconds to run.

bludstone
Can you blame him? Look at what happened to Janet Reno when she tried to take away a bunch of nutjob Texan's guns.

GaidinBDJ
I'm glad I live in New York. It is illegal for a felon to possess a gun. Period. Even if the sale ends up legal via some loophole, they still can't have it.

While New York may have additional penalties, it is illegal for a felon to posses a gun in every square inch of the US.

hatechall - that works too. It's the circle of life. Only with death. And not so much of a circle as a straight line. Whatever. WE'RE RIGHT and YOU'RE WRONG.

boise3981,
The problem is, after stopping those 61,000(some of which are repeat purchases and some are for unpaid parking tickets from 20 years ago) the justice dept didn't prosecute ANY of those felons that BROKE the law in trying to purchase a handgun. That's the biggest law that's not being enforced. Now they're free to try again and again

2004-07-27 10:58:19 AM LaughingGremlin


An Army of Ians?

Scotland!

no kidding, man. i say if there's someone out there who doesn't like you and has access to missiles, you better at least keep a shotgun around.

Or just buy the damn thing on the street, like 97% of the crooks do. Gesh, talk about punishing the wrong group of people. Asshats.

"seeing as we dont have to hunt for food anymore - can someone tell me WHY we even NEED guns.."

Some of us don't like the over stuffed with hormone cow that you get in the super market, or live in little po dunk towns that have the equilavent of a circle K for a super market and choose to subsistence hunt within state guidlines (Those of you that live in Alaska know this). Game meat is healthier and a much better way to go.

/didn't eat cow untill I moved to the lower 48.

ducTape

Somehow that doesn't scare me. I know how to sort out the Scottish. Ahem.

Guns are a piece of sporting equipment also, those that have shot before, know. Those that haven't, are pansies. heh

LaughingGremlin

I'm way harder than those nails. I just don't look quite as scary.

federal government shocked and appalled, then winks to arkansas and whispers "keep up the good work"

LaughingGremlin - "I know how to sort out the Scottish."

Smack - it's what's for dinner!

theflyingdutchman: buffalo? i grew up in WNY (lived in riverside for a bit), so its not like im unaware of this "sport".... everyone that I know that has been killed by a gun has been with a hunting rifle... not a hand gun, not a semi automatic... kid blew his dad's head off, husband killed his wife, a kid in my class blew his head off, idiots coming from the city killing live stock and accidently shooting people. and yes, i know it IS actually necessary to hunt deer and other wildlife to prevent them from starving... so, why not become a conservationist...
/no one complained when they outlawed lawn darts

Every "right" we have is abbridged in some way.

You have freedom of speech. You can say whatever you like whenever you like... but you still can't print out right lies and slander (unless you're fox news), and you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater.

You have the freedom to practice whatever religion you want. But if your religion involves sacraficing children or deficating on the state house steps, you're probably gonna end up in jail.

The limits come when your rights trample on the rights of others.

You have a right to a sling shot. You can get one without a back ground check, and with no waiting period. No one is going to be able to take it away. You do not have a right to a tactical nuclear warhead. I think this is a good thing because if my psycho neighbor were to have one that would be a scary situation (and I'm sure he would feel the same about me).

Somewhere between sling shot and nuclear warhead there is a line. On one side of that line you're allowed to have the weapon, on the other side it's not allowed. The debate is not about if the line exists (I think we can all agree that it does) but where it's placed.

Personally, my family is full of hunters. I think shotguns are okay. I think rifles are okay. I think revolvers and pistols are okay. I don't think semi-automatic and automatic guns are okay at any point. I don't think it's a good idea to sell, or even make, bullets that mushroom to destroy flesh. I don't think it's a good idea to make armor piercing weapons. I don't think it's a good idea to have clips that fire 40 bullets. I don't think it's a good idea to make guns that can fire those 40 rounds in a couple seconds.

If you need these guns to hunt, you're a lousy hunter and need to find a new hobby. If you think you need these guns to defend yourselves, you need to a) move or b) realize that your own "you have to pry my gun from my cold dead hand" rhetoric has resulted in causing a situation where the bad guys have these guns (if there were illegal to make, no one would have them).

As it stands, I could walk down the street, gun in hand, mumbling to myself, and no one could do anything until I climbed a bell tower and started to shoot. If gun laws were stricter, it would be illegal to simply carry the thing loaded through city streets.

Instead we get the NRA pushing "concealed carry" laws. If the whole idea of owning a gun is to deter crime wouldn't you want people to know you have it? Wouldn't you want a huge neon sign saying "I have a gun psycho! Don't try anything!" What is the point of having a concealed weapon? It doesn't make anyone safer.

We licence drivers and we register cars. There's a test (both written and usage) in order to get to drive. In 2001 there were 40,000 auto accident related deaths so obviously we need training on these machines. However there were 30,000 fireare related deaths (again, not counting injuries). Isn't it apparent, isn't it wise, to require some sort of training before being able to purchase a gun?

Isn't it really common sense?

"seeing as we dont have to hunt for food anymore - can someone tell me WHY we even NEED guns.."

There are those of us who do hunt. Tell my brother he can't Deer hunt and you will have a serious problem.

There is competative shooting. Sporting clays. Coyboy action Shooting. Plinking for fun. A .22 rifle and a few dollars of shells is a fun afternoon. You've got collectors that buy a gun and never fire it. There is nothing wrong with a gun when it is in the proper hands.

Gun dealers are required to be federally licensed (including at gunshows).

However "collectors" aren't required to be licenced. So all I have to do is call myself a "collector" instead of a "dealer" and I don't have to have a licence, I don't have to run back ground checks, and I can sell all the guns I want to anyone I want at gunshows.

A loophole big enough to drive your mom through

boise3981 - re: enforcing existing laws. I agree. I sat on a jury for a car-jacking case once, and the only charge was carjacking. No mention of 5 or 6 other crimes - using a gun while committing a felony, posession of a fire-arm by a convicted felon, allowing a minor to access a firearm, etc. Really pisses me off that everyone wants more laws re: gun control instead of enforcing the hundreds already on the books.

I don't think it's a good idea to make armor piercing weapons. . . Isn't it really common sense?

if you don't make armor piercing bullets, how are you supposed to shoot through armor?

2004-07-27 11:09:34 AM boise3981

Good points. To clarify - there is some training to get a CCW permit, but none required if you just want to carry that Dirty Harry down the street on your hip.

On a related note... While Clinton was reliving old glory days at the podium last night, he mentioned that the Republicans were going to let his 1994 "assault rifle ban" expire this year. I've been listening for 2 years and haven't heard a word about it.

/no one complained when they outlawed lawn darts

::raises hand:: I did, actually...

"As it stands, I could walk down the street, gun in hand, mumbling to myself, and no one could do anything until I climbed a bell tower and started to shoot. If gun laws were stricter, it would be illegal to simply carry the thing loaded through city streets."

Speaking for NC, there is a law titled "going to the terror of the people", so you could indeed be STOPPED. Having your weapon drawn is all it takes to stop you. It is illegal for mentally diminished persons to possess a firearm. (armed and mumbling to yourself would be reason to suspect that and be detained)

We don't have a gun control problem; we have a criminal control problem.

Violent crime should fall under a "1 strike and you're out" rule. Screw the rights of the criminal; it's the government's prime responsibility to provide for the safety of the law-abiding citizens.

/toke/

Coyboy action Shooting

That just put a really nasty image in my mind.

Boise is a troll. Been reading too much info from Hangun, Inc. Oh wait, they changed there name to something kinder, can't remember what it is anymore.....

/ agrees with boise3981... although - i, personally, dont know any hunters anymore... but growing up, those were the guys beating me up and calling me a fag for having green hair.

dutape

Cowboy action shooting is not what you think. It's competative shooting, and they dress up in period clothes. Lots of rules, very structured and planned. No yahoos shooting willy-nilly. Those people take it very seriously

see, if you'd have had a flamethrower, people would have left you alone.

Hammertoe - you're right. There just aren't enough Americans in jail.

You don't have a gun problem. You have a bit of a crime problem. Mostly, though, you have a WANKER problem.

damitjim: The problem is, after stopping those 61,000(some of which are repeat purchases and some are for unpaid parking tickets from 20 years ago) the justice dept didn't prosecute ANY of those felons that BROKE the law in trying to purchase a handgun. That's the biggest law that's not being enforced. Now they're free to try again and again

Wouldn't that be a problem with the justice department? Something tells me that the vast majority of people who say "enforce the current laws, don't make new ones" isn't going to vote for a change in the justice department...

So far, enforcing the current laws isn't working... perhaps we could try a couple more. Nothing radical, just to close the loopholes in the existing ones?

We can all agree there's a problem with gun violence, we can all agree that there are huge loop holes, we can all agree that guns end up in the hands of the wrong people... We can probably all agree that the system is broken...

So either vote for someone who will enforce the laws that are on the books, who won't let the assault weapon ban expire this fall... or get behind a few more laws....

I'm not sure which one will work better, but we can all agree that we have to try something.

2004-07-27 11:21:29 AM LittleSmitty

Just making fun of a little typo...

Coyboy action
Coy boy action

OK, I'm done with that.

klatubaradanikto:
On a related note... While Clinton was reliving old glory days at the podium last night, he mentioned that the Republicans were going to let his 1994 "assault rifle ban" expire this year. I've been listening for 2 years and haven't heard a word about it.

Here's the story:
http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2072073


If you do a google search for "assualt weapon ban expire" you'll pull up about 100 articles from every news source imaginable.

boise, the whole idea behind conceal-carry is that criminals don't know if anyone is packing a heater and therefore would be less willing to carjack/rob/whatever someone. If the neon sign was over every gun-toter then criminals would only attack the non-neon sign people.

common sense, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

ductape

oops, I appear to be a little slow off the mark. didn't catch that. more coffee, please

The NICS check is a joke. I'm a law abiding citizen and I am delayed about half the time I buy a firearm. They can delay a person just for having the same name or numerically similar SSN as a felon.

It must really suck to be John Smith. There are less than 5,000 people in the USA with my name and they still see fit to play "Delay Roulette" with my NICS checks. I have to fill out the paperwork at the beginning of a work day so they won't carry it over into the next business day.

I wouldn't mind NICS if it was truly instant for elgible purchasers and only truly dangerous people were inelgible. As it stands now, being delayed is a random problem for an appalling number of gun owners and one can be made inelgible because they slapped someone twenty years ago in a bar.

URTheBallLickers : again.. if no one had guns, would it matter.... pot is illegal, but using it doenst kill people.. using it actually makes you less prone to killing ANYONE... unless youre high and farking around with a gun.
/hmmmm... go figure