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(Montgomery Advertiser)   Wealthy countries outsourcing labor to Alabama, AKA the Bangladesh of the South   (montgomeryadvertiser.com) divider line 86
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5806 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2004 at 4:29 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-07-24 12:46:14 PM
Kronospan, a Dresden-based laminate floormaker, will send a team of executives to Alabama to learn more about its environmental permitting process and to learn more about the two cities it's targeting, Oxford and Fort Payne, Riley said in a teleconference from Heidelberg, Germany

First of all, why even go through the trouble? Who gives a shiat about the environment anymore? That's for wussie liberals and tree huggers.

The whole process will go something like this...

*Stamp* *Shuffle, Shuffle* *Stamp*

"There you go. Build your factory. Emissions? Don't worry about it. Suckers need the work because we outsourced all the cush jobs over to India. We'll get a few more jobs to tout our economic 'boom' and you guys get old-fashioned redneck labor willing to break their backs for a six-pack of cold beer and a fifth of JD on Friday night. If they get out of line, just hold a flag up and say you're not being patriotic. Works every single time for us. Oh, if anyone gives you any trouble about the pollution or anything just give them the old, "tree hugging liberal" line or say something about the "war on terror" and make sure you bring up God and gay marriage. Confuses the shiat out of'em and they forget all about what the real issue is.

Let's just get your signature right here...okay, beautiful.

The US is all yours! Bleed her dry, because that's what she's here for."
 
2004-07-24 04:35:20 PM
My economic stimulus plan is working. I'm all about jobs.
 
2004-07-24 04:36:16 PM
We'll get a few more jobs to tout our economic 'boom' and you guys get old-fashioned redneck labor willing to break their backs for a six-pack of cold beer and a fifth of JD on Friday night.

**shudder** We have some good jobs coming into Alabama.
DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Toyota even Hyundai... We
have production line workers in Alabama working for
$25+/hour with good benefits and bonuses. That's GOOD
money in Alabama for "unskilled" labor.
 
2004-07-24 04:37:56 PM
Another person who has never been to the south judging the south. Imagine that.

This is a direct result of insane environmental laws and overzealous labor organizations forcing companies to find better places to do business. Alabama is one of those places.

I dare anyone to come down here and tour the neighborhoods of the people who work for these companies and call them "redneck". They are far nicer than most communities in the US, and the people are actually nice.

And I wish I could video my 15 minute commute home. More natural beauty than most peole see in a year.

Alabama has it's problems, but they are nothing at all like their media portrayal. There's a reason why the region consistently has some of the fastest growing communities in the nation.
 
2004-07-24 04:41:23 PM
The submitter misspelled M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I.
 
2004-07-24 04:42:38 PM
So, you mean, there's a story about a few hundred of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of jobs created in the U.S. every year by foreign companies seeking better returns on investment, better domestic access to the largest single economy, and labor markets with experience in higher-end manufacturing processes?

And somehow the first responder thinks this is 'bad'.
 
2004-07-24 04:42:56 PM
Ditto to Sturgeon637.
 
2004-07-24 04:44:26 PM
flinx
Alabama has it's problems, but they are nothing at all like their media portrayal. There's a reason why the region consistently has some of the fastest growing communities in the nation.

Because everyone is farking everyone else, even their own sisters. Utah is probably a close second by this logic.
 
2004-07-24 04:47:15 PM
Bleed her dry, because that's what she's here for.

You hit it on the head nmph.

Capitalism only works up to a point before it goes down the other side of the curve. Our country is far past this point, but the big wigs are still making big cash, so who cares? McDonald's just hiked their prices again, in case anyone missed it. Just because people (a limited few, far from all) are making more money, they think they can charge more.

There's a breaking point. I hope I'm bankrupt already by then so I can have a head start catching up.
 
2004-07-24 04:49:21 PM
lol uh okay
 
2004-07-24 04:49:27 PM
flinx

I've spent a lot of time there. I can't say I like it all that much. It's a pretty boring place.
I will say that the people are very hospitible and not everyone is a redneck.
One thing that did bother me a lot was the level of racial intolerence.(on both sides)
 
2004-07-24 04:49:41 PM
Thats the kind of south bashing we will always have to put up with. (not to mention capitalism bashing) Just pay him no ne'er mind. I would much rather live in either the south or midwest than in the rust belt or the left coast. I went away
from the south, and came back.
 
2004-07-24 04:50:53 PM
First of all, why even go through the trouble? Who gives a shiat about the environment anymore? That's for wussie liberals and tree huggers.

Umm, you do realize that's exactly the sort of thing that makes companies outsource in the first place, right?
 
der
2004-07-24 04:53:01 PM
i just came from alabama on a business trip, and two words describe it, hot and humid. i don't understand how there are any fat people in the south with weather like that.
 
2004-07-24 04:54:34 PM
flinx
Alabama has it's problems, but they are nothing at all like their media portrayal. There's a reason why the region consistently has some of the fastest growing communities in the nation.

majorhopper

Because everyone is farking everyone else, even their own sisters. Utah is probably a close second by this logic.



Hmm... I wonder if instead it could be the 80,000+ jobs created JUST IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY in 'Bama... or the $3.7 Billion dollars in yearly auto payroll in Bama... or the 207 auto related factories...
 
2004-07-24 04:58:33 PM
The majority of Americans want to work for and with Americans.

It's as simple as that.

The current economic swapabout is really the problem though. Think about it. You have Americans doing the work for foreign companies, making them rich, then spending their money on products and services from other countries, but still paying the same for them.

It's a big money deficit that means all the cash is flowing away from the American people. The only "people" this sort of arrangement helps are those running the show. The average American gets shafted.

This system is really just a complex runaround that ensures that workers all over are supressed into low paying, low security, low benefit position, because the companies all over just outsource to other countries, creating a continuing cycle where jobs pay less for more work.

So, they outsourced our high end tech jobs elsewhere. Then other companies bring in their manufacturing jobs. Desperate people will take it. Then they'll mix things up and move it around again. We may even wind up getting the tech jobs back, but do you think they'll pay as high? Have the same benefits? No. Considering how we have a rather steady pace of inflation, and American job pay has generally done a terrible job at keeping up, a pay reduction is a permenant sentence to the poverty line for most of the nation.

Meanwhile, the people above the line who benefit from this will keep saying "No no guys.. Trust us.. It's *Good* in the end! The economy is doing better because of this!" Even though the individuals who had their jobs shuffled around are not. That's always been an amusing bit of cognitive dissonance in our society. Yes, the economy DOES affect you, but the economy is NOT you. So if a company does something "to help the economy" like sending jobs overseas, it's not very likely to have a positive effect on laid off workers. Yet people will tell them its good anyways. Totally laughable.

Remember, one of the questions to ask during a presidential election is "are you doing better now than you were 4 years ago?"

I notice this question isn't really being asked this year...
 
2004-07-24 05:00:18 PM
And the 'folks' in the North look down at Southerners as being ignorant and racist? I think that a lot of elitist Northerners had better worry about the pot calling the kettle black.
 
2004-07-24 05:00:51 PM
Because everyone is farking everyone else, even their own sisters. Utah is probably a close second by this logic.

As opposed to West Virginia, where there just ain't anybody else to fark but your sister, or Georgia, where other people just won't fark those people, so ya gotta fark your sister.
 
2004-07-24 05:03:42 PM
GIve it up. It's global. Eventually everywhere in the world will be the same. You will pay the same for a Big Mac in Bangladesh that you do in Orlando. You will make the same in both cities if you work at macdonalds. This is good for people who are in the third world. It is bad for the 1st world. Welcome to the second world, everybody.
 
m00
2004-07-24 05:09:00 PM
2004-07-24 05:00:51 PM Sloth_DC

Well, in defense of West-Virginia sister-farking, ya don't want your sister to give you head, what with the crooked teeth 'n all. Farking is the only real solution.
 
2004-07-24 05:09:59 PM
I find it somewhat odd that the governor is... job hunting... in Europe? Isn't that like Mayor Quimby going on his "fact finding" missions/vacations?
 
2004-07-24 05:13:13 PM
flinx

I've been to the South. And I apologize to the good people of Alabama. I didn't mean to generalize. You have your rednecks. We have our gumbas and guidos.

I was just trying to make a vulgar point about what's happening to our country. I was talking about big business "pissing" on America. You said this is a direct result of insane environmental laws and overzealous labor organizations forcing companies to find better places to do business and that Alabama is one of those places. Well, guess what, those 'insane' environmental laws were put in for a reason. To stop the destruction of the environment (duh) and to protect workers and people like yourself. The only people discounting them are rightwing shock jocks and those who stand to make quite a bit of money from them being overturned. The "science" they are using has been debunked over and over. And don't bring up global warming. That's a completely seperate issue and one that the EPA talked about in a recent report (but it was taken out of the final report by the Bush asministration...you'll have a talk with christie Whitmen about that.) Much of the Northeast was decimated by the lack of envoronmental policies and we are only just beginning to recover. Seems to me, someone's life is more important someone's paycheck. But that's something many people won't understand until they or someone they know is on their deathbed or suffering needlessly. Or perhaps it won't be until their favorite fishing spot is detroyed and their drinking water is contaminated.

But I think the bigger statement I was trying to make pertains to this:

But the governor said a Thursday visit with executives of German automaker Audi taught him that Alabama and other states face stiff competition from China and former Soviet bloc countries

Cheap labor, no taxes, no pesky environmental laws...you think overseas, right? Not anymore. Why is that? This isn't about Alabama. It's about our country and our people. How much are you willing to give up? When do you say no? And do we have a choice?

wbhigdon

**shudder** We have some good jobs coming into Alabama.
DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Toyota even Hyundai... We
have production line workers in Alabama working for
$25+/hour with good benefits and bonuses. That's GOOD
money in Alabama for "unskilled" labor.


How many of them make that much money? Doubt many. And what's the trade-off in the short run? And, even more importantly, what's the trade off in the long run?
 
2004-07-24 05:13:54 PM
Doesn't Mercedes make the M-Class in Alabama? And BMW makes some cars in South Carolina.
 
m00
2004-07-24 05:13:55 PM
2004-07-24 05:09:59 PM SigmaPhiDeltaAtTriStateBlows

Remember the episode with the Germans taking over the power plant?
 
2004-07-24 05:15:38 PM
Any thread about Talibama has to devolve into a flame war about the Civil War. Cue the "War of Northern Agression"/Lincoln was a mass murderer comments...
 
2004-07-24 05:16:06 PM
Sloth_DC

Umm, you do realize that's exactly the sort of thing that makes companies outsource in the first place, right?

Uhm, environmental laws sent all our tech and support jobs packing? Nah, buddy, that was just the pockets of a few.
 
2004-07-24 05:22:15 PM
Nissan has a huge plant in Mississippi.

And yes, I'm doing a hell of a lot better than I was four years ago. Just about everyone I know is.
 
2004-07-24 05:29:58 PM
Newmoonpuppy...

My brother just started working at the new Toyota plant in Huntsville. The short term drawback is that he took a 10% pay cut to get the job. Within three years he will be making at least 10% more than at his old job, and tops out in six years at 30% more than at his old job. He will pay off his new home before he turns fifty, send two daughters to college, and retire comfortably. I believe the trade off was pretty good. He won't give me actual dollar amounts, but I know other people that have started out over there at the bottom of the ladder making $15 an hour. Not bad, considering the cost of living here.
 
2004-07-24 05:30:00 PM
CruJones

Did you completely disocoont all that was said by Jensaarai? This isn't about 4 years, it's a much bigger issue.
 
2004-07-24 05:31:30 PM
fritzpizitz

Haven't we learned not to believe the promises of companies yet? Maybe not. We still believe politicians.
 
2004-07-24 05:32:47 PM
Once again I'm going to post my usual spiel in defense of my homeland. Alabama is not redneck, just like mkrygeri said. We have some hillbilly's and our fare share of trash, both black and white. I've encountered way more trash in other states in my travels around the country. Most of the people up north I met had their head up their A$$.

The places where these factories are opening up are areas where the cotton mills and what not have dried up because of outsourcing overseas. Most of the towns have good people there willing to work for a buck, a lot better than I've seen elsewhere.

You wouldn't imagine it either but over here in Germany there is some farkin' imbreeding going on in some of these little towns. And there must be something about people who live in the North that just makes them retarded. I'm in north Germany right now and I want to be back in Bavaria, this place sux. The people are cranky and try to act all "sophisticated", like those starbuck swilling nose in the air nincompoops I ran into up north.

I'll tell you who the real jackass is and that is Gov. Bob Riley. Nobody in Alabama likes him because he tried to raise taxes in a referendum vote instead of fixing the crooked tax system run by the crooked politicans we have down there. If there is a good Dem up against him he is going to get voted out unless he does more than bring a factory in. BTW, his predecessor got Honda and other plants there buy virtually giving them the land and let them operate tax free for 20 years. I guarantee the first time somebody tries to tax them they haul up their production lines and move them to Mexico and leave a big farkin' warehouse in Alabama.

I graduated college a year ago. My school's president was very big on the tax package because the school is in the hole because our last president was an idiot(spent about 1.5 million he said they had extra in the budget, but it wasn't actually there. He made money off the deals. Crooked, like a lot of people who run Alabama). My graduation speech was some F%$ker from the "Campaign for Alabama" who said we should go vote for the tax package. Not even one mention of the gradutes. He was booed off the stage.

We have good schools and very many well educated people in Alabama. Alot of people come to the colleges here for specialty schools that are #1 in the nation(criminal justice, ag engineering to name a few). Bob Riley is a jackass though and is trying to cut the budget to the trade schools and tell everyone to go to college. Well, not everyone was ment to go to college. And people don't fark their sisters here. Maybe 2nd cousins though, but hell if it was good for Einstein it's good for Alabama.

/moving back to Alabama one day, because I've seen alot of the world, and it's not what it's cracked up to be.
 
2004-07-24 05:34:52 PM
And before you make a big deal out of it, I know it's supposed to be fair, not fare.
 
2004-07-24 05:35:58 PM
Damn, SpankyMcCracken , I was going to be all over you for that. Damn you!
 
2004-07-24 05:36:59 PM
fritzpizitz, at my old apartment on the south side of Huntsville, a lot of touring bands, mostly from the northeast, would come to stay after they played around here. When I told them I was paying $350/mo. for a 2 bedroom, 2 full bath, spacious apartment with a balcony and in a good neighborhood, they couldn't believe it. If wbhigdon is right about the $25/hour thing at the plants, you can definitely support a family around here with that kinda wage.

Oh by the way, as someone who's lived in Northern cities as well, the South's the least racist place I've ever lived in.
 
2004-07-24 05:38:50 PM
MoralityCarwash

Yeah, I forgot about that. You can build a 100,000 dollar house here that beats the pants off of lumber piles I see elsewhere going for 300,000.
 
2004-07-24 05:49:18 PM
Spanky,
Where did you go to college? Just Curious.

Morality Carwash,
Do you still live in H'ville? I play in a travelling band, and often get the same reaction from people I've met in other cities.
 
2004-07-24 05:52:12 PM
Jacksonville State, aug 2003. I was in H'ville not too long ago. I can't remember why I was there. oh yeh, the Alabama A&M game against Jacksonville. I dig Huntsville, haven't had many chances to go out up there though.
 
2004-07-24 05:53:27 PM
South = Land of opportunity. Lower taxes + lower cost of living + no unions = higher standard of living.
 
2004-07-24 05:59:35 PM
Spanky McCracken
word. I graduated from UNA in '01. Wish I could live the rest of my life in college. Thems was the days.
 
2004-07-24 06:01:14 PM
Yeah, we don't need unions. We have the aintdoin system. If you don't pay bubba shiat he aint doin shiat. The mexicans are undercutting that however. But the citizens are letting it happen, it's going to bite the south in the ass if they ever need those jobs back because the companies would rather move overseas then pay an honest wage.

/wonders why the world bends over backwards to make a few people rich.
 
2004-07-24 06:07:12 PM
wbhigdon

**shudder** We have some good jobs coming into Alabama.
DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Toyota even Hyundai... We
have production line workers in Alabama working for
$25+/hour with good benefits and bonuses. That's GOOD
money in Alabama for "unskilled" labor.

newmoonpuppyhead
How many of them make that much money? Doubt many.
And what's the trade-off in the short run? And, even more importantly,
what's the trade off in the long run?


No not every worker in Alabama makes that. However
that is what you will make at Mercedes and Honda after
a two year stint on the assembly line. Hyndai is
naturally a little lower and I dont have the Toyota
figures handy but they should pay nicely as well.

I live near the Mercedes plant so I can only speak to them.
I dont see any downside. They've driven up property values,
created high wage jobs and done an excellent job to build
a car with as little enviromental impact from the factory
as possible.

I see very little if any downside to MB in Alabama. I see very little if any downside to someone coming to my state
creating jobs.

Alabama IS a good place to locate a company. (Source Site Selection Magazine)
 
2004-07-24 06:15:26 PM
2004-07-24 05:29:58 PM fritzpizitz

My brother just started working at the new Toyota plant in Huntsville. The short term drawback is that he took a 10% pay cut to get the job. Within three years he will be making at least 10% more than at his old job, and tops out in six years at 30% more than at his old job. He will pay off his new home before he turns fifty, send two daughters to college, and retire comfortably. I believe the trade off was pretty good. He won't give me actual dollar amounts, but I know other people that have started out over there at the bottom of the ladder making $15 an hour. Not bad, considering the cost of living here.

WHAT THE fark KIND OF LOGIC IS THAT? He'll pay off his house BY AGE 50! He'll send two daughters to college! AND THAT IS IT! You call that a life? You call that achievement? THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT?
 
2004-07-24 06:19:29 PM
There are a number of reasons why a foreign company would like to build manufacturing in the US.

Most reasons do not bode well for the US:

1. Environmental protection is lax,
2. Worker safety requirements are low,
3. Cheap labor lacking collective bargaining(unions),
4. Foreigner doesn't pay for infrastructure, US pays,
5. Foreigner doesn't pay tax period on some projects,
6. Bribes cost less.

US has been on a decline in real standard of living and quality of environment since somewhere around 1960.

Fancy military and millionaire creation is a banana republic economy.

Humorous, they didn't choose the paradise of the American Northeast.
 
2004-07-24 06:47:57 PM
HipHopPhenomenon.com
You're joking right?
 
2004-07-24 06:54:49 PM
HipHopPhenomenon.com

WHAT THE fark KIND OF LOGIC IS THAT? He'll pay off his house BY AGE 50! He'll send two daughters to college! AND THAT IS IT! You call that a life? You call that achievement? THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT?

Yep. And, sadly, that's considered a good life here in America and the rest of the world. We live within a limited system. Other systems have been tried and they failed. There are still many problems with ours. problem is...ahhh there are just to many....but you can start with selfishness, greed, and avarice.

world citizen

You left out the fact that many European countries have at least 4-6 weeks of vacation mandated by law.
 
2004-07-24 06:56:25 PM
Bangladesh of the South?

Dude, the preferred nomenclature is Alabamastan.

/Happily living in Montgomery, where the city motto is "Montgomery: It isn't as bad as you think".
 
2004-07-24 06:58:44 PM
Lot's of comparative talk, so here's my take on it:

Speaking as an Alabamian who gre up in Huntsville, went to college in Montevallo, and who now lives in NYC, Alabama's got a lot that crappy, dirty cities like NYC will never, ever have: beautiful land, clean rivers, kids who don't grow up thinking it's normal to smell urine and feces on the way to school. Education and race relations waver from being pretty damn good in some places (i.e. Huntsville) to being on par with NYC(i.e. Montgomery), except without all the various ethnic groups that hate each other in NYC, it's pretty much up to white and blacks alone to do all the hating in Montgomery.

Ever since the internet and netflix, world culture's up to date everywhere there's a phone line.

So thank god for Mississippi, anyways. Or better yet, thank god for that farking stankhole New Jersey, whose big hair and Trans-ams put the collective South to shame. If we could brick up the Holland/Lincoln Tunnels, New York might actually be a nice city to live in.

/bitterly finishing graduate school, then moving back south
 
2004-07-24 06:59:01 PM
Damn grammar and spelling mistakes! Leave me alone!
 
2004-07-24 07:01:34 PM
SpankyMcCracken:

Where are you stationed? I'm in Dortmund (civilian, married a German woman and moved here).

/sorry for the threadejack
 
2004-07-24 07:02:03 PM
HipHop, I'd say that 90% of Americans would call that a good life...It's called the AMERICAN DREAM...old fashoned, to be sure, but still around...

As for Alabama being a good place to locate a business....I believe it was Forbes that called Huntsville the 6th best place in America to start a business (or one of those kinds of magazines). We have the lowest property taxes in the nation, little to no red tape to cut through, and plenty of potential labor. All that plus the most expansive community college system in the state (which is about all the education you need for a factory job) and you have a darn good area to start a business.
 
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