WTF? The Cure isn't goth... Smith has said this over and over again... Read

2004-07-22 10:36:00 PM govcheese

WTF? The Cure isn't goth... Smith has said this over and over again... Read

as in RTFT? believe me when we've been over this and over this...

/boring, Sidney, boring

on second thought...
actually this is a little long to read. so just an fyi.

Apology accepted, though as I partially mentioned in my previous post, the amount of good stores that supply goths in NYC is dwindling. (and that is scary considering on how NYC (other then New Orleans) is apparently considered one of the best places for Goths in the city, though I think that is a lie) As a 23 year old Gothic DJ who is upset I can't find work because there are very few clubs in the city that take DJs like me and most if not all are held by other DJs who are obviously unwilling to let competition get in their way, well I guess I can be considered a "disgruntled DJ" :-P

So to sum it up, I will be getting my clothing online now and will continue to hand out my demo disks to promoters and club owners/managers who are intrested. (BTW, anyone in NJ or NYC who is intrested, please contact me :) )

Still listening to a bunch o' bands nobody's heard of or gives a rat's ass about...

Gong
Jellyfish
Ozric Tentacles
The Swingin' Love Corpses
The Amino Acids
Weapon of Choice
Gentle Giant
Supergrass, etc., etc.

The list of bands that have never/will never achieve any kind of commercial success that totally kick the snot out of 9/10ths of the 'artists' mentioned here would drive this thread WAAAAAAAY beyond infinity.

scalpod dang. I was hoping to call your bluff but you win. Never heard of one of 'em.

As a musician myself (bass) I've always had a rough time in debates over which band, song or musician was better/worse than others with friends who HAVE NEVER PLAYED ANY INSTRUMENT (including their own vocal chords).

As a visual artist (drawing, painting, animation) I've had the same difficuties 'discussing' work with non-artists.

Why is that those who can't do somehow feel more than qualified to pass judgement on work they've never had any more than an outsiders view on?

I don't presume to start knocking one architectual style over another as I've never designed a building. I don't dare discuss the merits of this brand of spark plug over that because I know shiat all about cars 'cause I'm not a mechanic.

Music on the other hand is something every halfwit in the world has an opinion on whether they can hold a note or even hear the difference between them...

As far as my list is concerned... please don't start listening to any of these bands as I'd much rather they stay completely unknown. In fact, just forget I ever even mentioned them.

Move along - nothing to see (or hear).

because they are opinions, not matters of fact

Gothnet

True, Goth has long roots (even before Bauhaus), but those aren't the ones that I (and IMHO most of the thread) are talking about. We are talking about the trendy Goths (like the ones Parodied on SNL) that took off in the 90's and were devoted to Marilyn Manson, etc. There really is no comparison, as the 90's trend was more about another way to rebel against parents, etc., than music.

Not that I am an old-timer or anything (I'm 29), but I just know enough about the latter day Goth movement because they were part of my younger brother's generation (and I also taught high school during that time). Trying to show my alt-music hipness, I talked about the classic bands to be cool--but they knew nothing about them. That made me sad and mad.

Ask these guys about Bauhaus, Peter Murphy solo, or even Sisters of Mercy or Siouxsie and the Banshees (who weren't Goth but inspired some Goths/Punks), and you'll not find much more than blank stares or even, GASP!, ridicule. I regularly attend clubs that feature special DJ's mixing Cure or Bauhaus all night and you really see a mix of ages, but NO modern Goths there at all (well, maybe 2) among hundreds of people.

/That all being said, I have nothing against Goths at all...more power to them! Just the Cure ain't Goth.

scalpod
just for that I am handing out that list to everyone I know.

and there's nothing you can do about it.

Scalpod

You have to admit Supergrass aren't exactly unknowns. Doesn't "We are Young" feature in a TV commercial? But I have never heard of some of the bands on your list. The ones I have, I like, so I'll be looking out for the rest.

Thanks.

People mistake me for goth all the time. It's the whole black hair, dark makeup, pale skin thing.
But I'd like to think I wear it well!

scalpod
Too late, I already fired up Acquistion to get a taste of this awesome unknown music :P

Ozric Tentacles' "Weirditude" is pretty sweet.

2004-07-22 11:15:00 PM adadkbar93

Heh 10 years ago I saw Siouxsie live. Man, those were the days... growing up when Trent Reznor put out NEW music. =)

I guess because I was a 1994 Goth (think Doom Generation), I hold much contempt for the goths these days.

all right, y'all...time for me to go watch the Young Ones

seeya tomorrow

scalpod

Still listening to a bunch o' bands nobody's heard of or gives a rat's ass about...

i know ... five of those bands. Gong, Jellyfish, Ozric,
Gentle Giant, Supergrass. the first three all released multiple great albums.
anyone into (non-classic rock radio) early 70s music should know Gong and Gentle Giant. anyone who enjoys bands such as those two would end up listening to ozric tentacles too, i'm sure. none of them are particularly obscure

"Why is that those who can't do somehow feel more than qualified to pass judgement on work they've never had any more than an outsiders view on?"

so, only cameramen can have opinions on movies? only chefs can tell good food from bad?

i usually disregard musicians opinions on other bands, because it usually boils down to chord-counting, or trying to figure out how difficult something is to play. whereas a non-musician (or non-painter, non-film maker) listens to the music, the overall piece of art, rather than the technique

2004-07-22 11:15:00 PM adadkbar93

the cure aint goth?

so water's not wet either?

man. the cure is one of the founding fathers of the scene! the cure's look and sound is one of the most emulated ones out there from goths throughout the late 80s early 90s. the cure isnt as worshipped by the new goths on the block (snicker), but it sure as hell is part of the scene.

vrax

The only Fad Gadget I have is Collapsing New People On an oldish EP from back in the day. It's an eerily catchy tune tho =]

m00

Wow, awesome show! Those were the days...NIN, Nitzer Ebb, etc.

I hear you on your bitterness...you guys were a different generation, man.

NO comparison! It ruled going to shows with you.

I guess because I was a 1994 Goth (think Doom Generation), I hold much contempt for the goths these days.

Hehe....yeah, the kids these days really are quite lame. At least us that are a part of the 'Doom' half of this generation had decent music...

....kids these days? I used that in a sentence?! AH CRAP I'M GETTING OLD!!!

Dogbowl Free Hand by Gentle Giant is a fav of mine =] Amazed to hear that someone else appreciates em !

I have a tape of The Cure, called "Lost Wishes". It's 4 songs, apparently there were only a few hundred made. It's beautiful. Whatever sins they may have commited, the music they managed to create there (no singing, actually) earns them forgiveness.

Dave the SLushy

i hear ya bro. i kissed my 20s goodbye last month.

and if it makes you feel any better, the first show i went to at 14 was, yup, The Cure "disintegration" tour in 1989 in dodger stadium, with nitzer and Love and Rockets opening.

I think I was goth before it had that name, I grew out of it though. That said, I love The Cure, but that new song pains me when it comes on. I lost interest after "Kiss Me..."

wow this thread is fun as hell =] I think everyone should list their 5 FAVORITE BANDS!!! Du Jour or Eternal it's your choice...

As for me

XTC
Stranglers
Porcupine Tree
King Crimson
Violent Femmes

I'm starting to understand the cyclical nature of musical crappyness

Late 90's - Early 00's: Spice Girls & Production-Line Pop/Rock

Late 80's - Early 90's: U2, Nirvana, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins etc

Late 70's - Early 80's: Disco, bad synth crap

forgot to add..

Late 60's - Early 70's: Most of the Forest Gump sountrack

Your favorite band sucks.

/obligatory

vrax - i recall "fireside favourite" and I liked it very much. it was about nuclear destruction was it not? something about kissing a girl who's face turns into a skull.

i don't have it. I do have 2 copies of "gag" on vinyl. i'm looking for somewhere to download some howard devoto myself.

I, for one, have never seen Robert Smith and Bobcat Goldthwaite in the same room.

/evil twins

Dave The Slushy :Late 90's - Early 00's: Spice Girls & Production-Line Pop/Rock

I think we're gonna see that modified to Mid 00's shortly...

And another thing. What's with the "who farted" photo?

How come I've never seen any goth lawyers, politicians, or professional atheletes?! There's some kind of discrimination going on.

Goths = white kids in search of a culture.

Fark placebo, Psychotica is where glam's at.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that is a great headline. The Cure does not suck, I will admit. They were obviously a very influentual group, and made some good music too for a while there. But Robert Smith, oh my god, it's tragic how funny he is now, quite sad. And there's nothing wrong with goths for all those people talking shiat, I'm not one, never have been either, but I knew plenty of them and some of the fringe goths can be cool people. Actually, anybody can be cool, doesn't matter how you want to classify them. Intolerant racist bastards.

Disintegration got me laid more times than there are posts in this thread.

On the same emotional level of nostalgia live PJ's "Black" and Buckley's "Hallelujah".

Curiosa in Tampa baby. Btw, does anyone have a clue what the layout is gonna be for that? There's a crapload of bands listed for it...who's playing what stage when?

The acid test; if you deny being goth, you're a goth.

For the "what are you listening to now?" question:

At the moment, "Heaven or Las Vegas" by the Cocteau Twins. But that's just because the thread inspired me to go over to the CD racks and pull some of the late 80s/early 90s mood music I haven't listened to in a while. I sorta got sidetracked though. After pulling some Lush, Dead Can Dance, and Cocteau Twins, I noticed some others nearby (all filed alphabetically, so after pulling Cocteau Twins I went oooooh, how 'bout some Concrete Blonde and Crack the Sky too?) that didn't fit into the genre, but what the heck.

Also, "Killing an Arab" is based on The Stranger by Camus. Surprised nobody has mentioned that.

hmm... well I can see your point, but no, I'm not. Sorry though.

Worst farking thread ever. (a) the cure sucks ass! (b) the whole goth scene is the lamest thing ever (c) to all you goth folks, do everyone and yourself a favor by putting yourself out of youre own misery.

KrustAsian

Rice Rockets = Asian males in search of penis compensation


/what now biatch?

Dave The Slushy

cyclical nature of musical crappyness

Late 90's - Early 00's: Spice Girls & Production-Line Pop/Rock

Late 80's - Early 90's: U2, Nirvana, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins etc

Late 70's - Early 80's: Disco, bad synth crap

i've noticed something similar, although with much more specific years, and the years of 'crap' in between were not really crap at all. there seem to be waves of creativity in about '66-'68, '77-'79 and '88-'89.
it also depends on what music you're exposed to. i think of the late 70s and early 80s in terms of punk, new wave, no wave, and post-rock etc etc... which includes many dozen superb bands. disco and bad synth crap were a small piece of the puzzle.

the sound of U2, Nirvana, NIN etc were defined in the early 80s. its only years later that those styles of music become popular.

There was nothing like NIN in the early 80's. Sorry, not even remotely similar. And not really Nirvana either, even though they suck. Maybe U2 though, I can see that.

Well, of course U2 were, since they debuted in what, 1980?

"There was nothing like NIN in the early 80's. Sorry, not even remotely similar."

you're wrong! and i can prove it .. by hanging up.

seriously though, just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. how old are you?

have a listen to the DAF album "Alles Ist Gut" from 1981. sounds basically like a foreign version of pretty hate machine. in fact, some tracks are so similar that there's probably a copyright issue involved.

i might have been wrong about nirvana. for Nirvana copyright infringements you have to move to 1985 (mid-80s, not early 80s) and Killing Jokes 'eighties'.

"The cover of Tim Buckley's "Song to the Siren" by This Mortal Coil is an absolute classic"

ha. no it isn't. that version sounds to me like a talentless pop-idol contestant completely murdering a song they barely know.

i'm just thankful there aren't more version of it

Dogbowl. Did you just compare Deutsche Amerikanische Freundschaft with Nine Inch Nails? I am a fan of both and i have never even thought of their music as remotely similar.

And, everyone: NIN and DAF are not goth. Industrial music is often confused with goth, and i can of course see why.

Bauhaus, Ordo rosarius, Marilyn Manson, (Sisters of mercy), the Cure, Joy Division, Opeth are goth.

Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, welle:erdball, Front 242 are Darksynth, Industrial, Chip or Electronica!

Get your facts straight people. =)

I love how Rollins rips on the Cure. "I've got the cure for that band, where's my flamethrower..."

Bauhaus, Ordo rosarius, Marilyn Manson, (Sisters of mercy), the Cure, Joy Division, Opeth are goth.

While my own respect for Mr. Manson has increased somewhat in the past year, I'd have to disagree, and quite a few pale people in black would flame or laugh at you for including them.

Genres are just convenient labels, folks. Don't get too hung up on them.

But, seriously, Opeth?! Oh, snap!