alvishnes = lavishness. And I am teh wurst tipist in teh hole wyde wurld.

I've snarfed Fuel's live version of "Daniel", and am listening to it as I type.

Who says Fark flamewars are useless?

Bin Ladens are traveling tonight on a plane
I can see the New York lights
or maybe it's smoldering flames, oh and
I can see Dubya waving goodbye
well it looks like Dubya
must be the smoke in my eyes

Night, all

What's louder: The unobserved fallen tree or the one hand clapped?

G'night HowlingFrog, may your dreams reveal hope for us all.

If the administration was really "suppressing free speech and being McCarthyistic," 73% of farkers would be in "happy camps" right now.

That kind of thinking is why people are so polarized, the, it's not as bad as X, so it's not bad at all, thinking is really a problem we all face. You know, at least I didn't poop on the carpet when I puked, right? Using some form of extreme to make the current sin look okay by comparison, right?

It's simply being naive.

No one thinks that Ashcroft is always watching, but they know that the rest of you are.

Always looking for a reason to pounce upon somone who isn't being a good american.

that is what the real issue is, a culture of distrust and fear, suspended by a sense of machismo. I'm tough because I am fighting back against anyone who criticizes X. Is that really defending your freedoms, or is that defending X? Are you protecting America by stopping someone from burning a flag, or are you defending a flag? Really? Isn't there a fundamental law about Worshipping images somewhere? Defend your ideals, not your items. If you really want to win the culture war, you should become diplomats, not soldiers. You do little to win over your enemies by killing their neighbours and relatives or by simply ostracizing and decrying them if they step "out of line"

Sheesh, I've been on a real bender this evening.

As I said before, I don't beleive in what some people say, but they are allowed to say it, even to the mass media. it's not like my world view is so fragile that a few words can shatter it.

The silent fart.

Your bank account bottoming out.

Night, SherKhan.
Always enjoy reading ya.
Frog out.

@Howlingfrog

Sorry mate, Im an amature Farker at best and was off doing other things at the time. Going out on a Saturday night, perish the thought...

For as far as the Patriot act I had to read it and had to weed through the addendums and "inserted at end of paragraph" where you have to go to a whole other document to find the origional paragraph awhile back. I have no desire to do it again thank you very much.

"I can now be spied on from a thousand different angles, be arrested without charge, and be held indefinately without legal recourse." - Howlingfrog.

I guess you will have to work with me on this one, because even the ACLU doesn't go as far as to make a statement like that. If you would be so kind as to point out where the patriot act abolished the Miranda Act and the right to due proccess I would greatly appreciate it.

On a note, you realize that these agents still warrants and court orders for these survaliance opperations right? They just don't have to let you know they have them. This law has been in place for decades when dealing with orginized crime and drug traffiking. But now that it applies to Terrorism our freedom has come to an end...

Yes they can pick you up for questioning, but hey guess what they have always been able to do that. Also you do realize that if a law enforcement official asks you to come to the station for questioning you can refuse until they formaly arrest you right? You still have all the rights under the law you did before.

Must just be my knowledge of law enforcement kicking in, and while its limited mostly to being on the wrong side of it, do you really think they have the money or desire to find out what you or any other non-violent screamer are doing when they have real threats to the country to chase after?

And of course the thing that everyone who goes off on the PA seams to avoid is Sec 224. Sunset. Thats right, Dec 31'st 2005 it all goes away (unless they vote it through the house and senate again of course). Don't want it to happen again? Call/Write/Stalk your representative. Throw money, get out and march... Whatever.

The PA is no more than a specific set of rules and guidelines that deal directly with terrorism and money laundring in support of it. Don't jump on the "end of my freedoms" bandwagon with out at least skiming the thing to see what it actualy says. Will some things that were not affected before now be affected? Yes. Can they snatch you up and Gestapo your arse for no reason other than a desire to? No. I mean its been in place for 3 years or so now and I have yet to see any sign of this being used for anything other than its intended purpose of countering terrorism.

Arg, no one is taking the bait.


I'm out. Goodbye from the bridge, goats.

HEY EVERYBODY, I'M HERE FOR THE FLAME WAR!

oh, sorry, nobody's here....

Hmmmmm....

Make crappy music, don't appeal to your audience, record does not sell. Explanation =

1. Bush?

2. Fileharing

3. Stupid uneducated fans.

Worked real well for Creed and Metallica too.

I have a question for Elton and Whoopi. How is this different that if they went to, say, Dennys for breakfast and the waitress loudly told them I cant stand liberals. Theyre all idiots! and the waitress got fired for her actions?

Other then the waitress isnt a rich celebrity, I mean.

Weaver95?! is that you?

Dude, you are in one of your thoughtful, intelligent phases. You always impress me whrn you are in moods like this. If you could jsut stay there, you would be one of the more insightful people on this board.

Is every gay man in England automatically made a knight?
What are the benefits of knighthood?
Do you get first pick of vassels, serfs and knaves?
Is your armor now tax-deductible?
In the event that England is attacked, will the gay Sir Elton lead a squad of interior designers and hair-dressers trained as pike-men?

Finally, who really cares what this old poofter has to say?
His music sucked in the 70s as badly as it does today. The guy sings and plays someone else's songs on the piano. He's a goddamn entertainer. That makes his opinion noteworthy how?

I was going to offer my opinion on your opinions, but our opinions are noteworthy why?

/hey all individual opinions went where?

For all you people who believe what happened to the dixie chicks is not cenorship, you should pay more attention to the news.

Should fans choose not to by a CD because they disagree with you - that is not censorship.

Should big shot friends of the president pressure radio stations to not play the dixie chicks, that is censorship.

This is the same as Jeb bush pressuring disney not to show Michael Morre's film or Republicain Big wigs pressuring theaters not to show it.

Censorship does not necessarily involve government laws, having the power to influence gives you the power to censor. A schoold principal, a priest etc. could censor

2004-07-17 04:06:41 PM theironchef


I didn't know Bush personally ran the FCC, did he tell them to get Stern?

Ummm... the son of his secretary of state runs the FCC. You don't think he has close ties to them?

Besides the context of this debate is if the current elected adminstration is trying to silence opposing views, Howard just had an apolitical potty-mouth.

He's had a potty-mouth for 20 years. He'd been criticizing Bush for 3 months before he got biatch-slapped by the FCC. I know correlation != causation, but there's a pretty strong circumstantial case there.

420 comments....

mmmmm 420.

@nitemayr

Good Morning. Funny how this discourse came out of Elton John, but its all good.

The whole "Freedom Fighter" vs. "Terrorist" argument is a good and tough one. My inital response is some typical full of myself "I just know the differance" one. But I figured I would at least try to illistate it some. It all stems from the fact that the double speak implied by this definition is a matter of perspective and personal conscience.

The British called the founding fathers Terrorists and thugs, Yet we revel them as Patriots. Perspectivly based if your on there side they are Freedom Figthers, if you are not they are gurrilas, rebels, insurgants and terrorists.

For me there are two simple defining factors. As a note, Popular opinion or what my Government tells me they are have no weight in helping me decide. First off, what are they fighting for? I don't personaly care what their description of freedom is, I have my own. Freedom to beat my wife to death. Freedom to take up arms against those of opposing religions. Freedom to kill, torture and scare any that would speak up against me. To me this is not freedom, but this is the kind of world these things seek.

I am no so close minded as to belive that the American or the European forms of governments are the only "free forms" of governement. But when you look at the regimes of the Taliban, or the Iranina Mullas, or the Communists in China or North Korea... I can't see any "Freedom" there, mabey Im just not open minded enuff.

Secondly is the means. I don't care if the goals you are working towards are as pristine as they come. If you butcher innocent people and hostages to get them then you sully any purity they may have had and wipe out any justification for your actions that may have garnered my sypathy. The definition of barbarism is not in a book but in ones concience and upbrining. These things lack this definition.

For a long time I was a sypathizer of the Palistinian cause. It was pretty cut and dry really, there cause is a good one. But now with the numbers of there groups taking up these terrorist actions they have lost all sympathy with me and become the "scum" and "terrorists" that there opponents origionaly labled them as.

Freedom fighter? Terrorist? It is not the definition of the media, or the government or even the dictionary. It is a definition defined by my own conscience.

I dislike Elton but I think he is spot on.

And if I am alive to see the next Civil War I can't wait to tear the neocons a new one. The biggest bunch of devils hiding behind a cross and religion they don't even follow.

Flame that, b*tches.

middle->right= elton john is a dum bass, shouldnt have said this, who is he to criticize anyone, screw elton what does he know, and of course if someone important said it maybe but elton.

middle->left= who cares of the message, but the message is right. the points are valid, the man makes worthy arguments, even if he is a gay he still has an opinion worthy of discussion

middle-> up= who cares, elton john has no influence in american politics, so who gives him the soapbox or didnt rtfa

middle-> down=who cares elton john is a ghey

/that about sums up this flame war

err messenger..... duh

/victim of preview before post

"Repeat after me: THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIP. When the GOVERNMENT says you can't do something under penalty of law, that's censorship. When private actors level sanctions/boycotts against other private actors, that's freedom of association.

You're right. It's not censorship. It's Machavellian. Bush and other Americans in power used their position to decry that the Dixie Chicks were being un-American. Bush publicly called for the Dixie Chicks to apologize to Americans. WTF? They criticized him and his farkin' unjust war. There was no need to have them arrested. Once again, Bush proved deft at using 9/11 and the emotions and sentiment it brought up to sway public opinion. So, censorhip? No. Evil? Yes."

Some one should hire a team of attorneys and take these asses to the cleaners. nothing scares the rich elite as much as being made poor

Let see, Fox News, Cnn and now they have clear channel, any one else want to point out powers that the evil axis has control of in the US. George Orwell was right. I have no hope for the US as I see most of the US citizens as mindless buying sheep and believe what the Bush family and conspirator controlled media says, you are not being told the truth. follow the money and read between the lines, if you vote your retard President back in office the rest of the world will not just hate your government but most of United States citizens as well. 1984 was just twenty years wrong. Remember daddy is the evil genius, Jr is mini me that may be slightly retarded.

PS JESUS WAS A LIBERAL

Jesus was a hippe too (and a socialist) - but I digress...

"We're at war, fer chrissakes."

really? i don't seem to recall a declaration of war before the US attacked Afghanistan *or* Iraq... Do you?

Does anybody even know anymore what McCarthy did? First, he was a SENATOR. He wasn't even around when the HUAC (HOUSE UnAmerican Affairs Committee) was looking for Commies. Second, did I mention he was a senator? He wasn't in the House (!!) UAC, though you can't find a liberal, or dare I even say, a Democrat who even knows that. Third, all he was trying to do was get devoted communists out of sensitive security positions. Period, thats it. But they were so entrenched by the time he got there, the politicians who let them crawl in tried to discredit him to shift their own blame from getting them in in the first place. Read the US government's Verona papers, released a few years ago. They are on the internet. They should be on the best seller list for all to read. He was, as history (with the Verona Papers) now proves and nobody can finally deny, ...correct! We had high ranking communist spies in sensitive positions in the US government.

Oops. My bad. -5 for spellling mistake. Vernona = venona . Tying too early in the morning. looks like I didn't read the whole thread either before I started typing. Sorry for being a bad typist and redundant on the thread. Anyway, get back to sleep. (sorry Bush/Cheny04 poster!)

Why is Elton worried - His career is excceded only by his intelligence and neither even shows on the Richter intelligence scale - eg - he's dumber than a 5 pound lump of lard.

ELTON, get your hair plugs redone and STFU

"People get precisely the kind of government they deserve."

WTF? that's not an old adage... You get what you deserve might be an old adage.

I deserve a government that acts according to my philosophy, and Bush, etc. definitely do not act in anyone's objective "best interest".