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(USA Today)   Government scraps frequent-traveller security bypass program   (usatoday.com) divider line 96
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9915 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2004 at 9:22 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-07-15 10:28:54 AM
Given that any terrorist would be easily able to conjure up a fake history, or fly internationally enough times to drop below radar, or for that matter recruit people who are already IN the little registration-type program thingies, ANY registration program is fundamentally flawed and therefore impractical. Screw the privacy issues. they are of no concern when you take all the above into account. There's also the possibility of using newbies to the organization whose identity hasn't yet been compromised.
 
2004-07-15 10:29:39 AM
kcm
I still consider bush to be a catalyst of the recent events rather than this great "maker of peace and tranquility" one might gather from your words.


Bush is absolutely a catalyst of recent events. But at least some of those events are good. Dictators do think twice about their actions now. They have to consider the possibility that the US will remove them from power. Before Iraq, I don't think any dictator in the world believed that any country would actually invade. Now that they've seen it happen, I imagine they are just a little less helpful when a terrorist organization calls them up asking to lease some land for a training camps. Before, the response would have been, "sure come on in, I think training camps are cool." Now the response is, "uh I don't think so."

That said, I'm still not voting for Bush. I just want to make the prediction now that Kerry will be held to a different standard than Bush. I think that's wrong.
 
2004-07-15 10:30:01 AM
"even though the government has spent more than $100 million on its planning."
Damn, how can I get in on some of that cash? I want to see an item by item list of where the fu*k you blow 100mill on something that doesn't even exist, nor ever will. That money should have gone directly to coastline/port security. That is the problem area, not the airlines.
 
2004-07-15 10:34:49 AM
justanotherfarkinfarker
coastline/port security. That is the problem area, not the airlines.


yeah no shiat. It will probably be at least a decade before an airliner can be hijacked in this country. People just wont let it happen.

What a waste of money this was.
 
2004-07-15 10:35:16 AM
enave, you can't seriously think that our invasion of Iraq by Bush the Younger has raised our esteem in the eyes of Al Qaida and related groups? Or the rest of the world? Can you honestly not see how our war and occupation of Iraq has given terrorists more fuel for their fires? There are none so blind as those who will not see, I guess...

/not Democrat OR Republican OR Republicrat OR Demican
//but sure is hoping for a regime change HERE in November...
 
2004-07-15 10:38:03 AM
enave, I posted the above comments while you were posting yours. I see you do realize BushII's actions have had at least some negative consequences...
 
2004-07-15 10:39:18 AM
WenchyWoman
enave, you can't seriously think that our invasion of Iraq by Bush the Younger has raised our esteem in the eyes of Al Qaida


No. I don't think that and I didn't say that.

and related groups?
No. I don't think that and I didn't say that.

Or the rest of the world?
No. I don't think that and I didn't say that.

Can you honestly not see how our war and occupation of Iraq has given terrorists more fuel for their fires?

I agree with that.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, I guess...

Oh the irony. You're the one who can't see. You read what I wrote and it went in one ear and out the other. Then in your mind you replaced it with your preconceived notion of what I must think. That's pretty sad.
 
2004-07-15 10:40:13 AM
it's "W's" fault cause he knew it was gonna happen nd ALLOWED it to happen, then pulled some shiat out of his ass and said Iraq was a major threat, when they weren't. infact every other country in that region posed a bigger threat than Iraq

you dumb farkig biatch
 
2004-07-15 10:41:18 AM
If you had even the tiniest capacity for rational thought you would realize that 9/11 took years of planning and staging, all of which happened on Clinton's watch.
Yo, buffoon, its common knowledge that Bush ignored all Clinton administration warnings. And if you had even the tiniest capacity for rational thought, maybe you'd realize what a distraction that impeachment nonsense was.
Thats ok, keep blaming Clinton cause Bush had his thumb jammed up his ass.
Now go have some refreshing Slim-Fast, Neo-Chubby.
 
2004-07-15 10:43:31 AM
Cool, so I still have to get "randomly" selected every time I fly because my name "looks" middle eastern, even though I'm a blond-haired white guy with a USAF ID card. Even the inspectors feel like I should be able to be expedited when they see my ID card.
 
2004-07-15 10:45:43 AM
We have personnel who are experts at counter-intelligence, surveilance, covert operations, as well as simple, down-to-earth, old-fashioned azz-whupping. Why aren't these people being allowed to do what they were trained to do? Why aren't these professionals not being allowed to do what they are paid to do?

Am I to believe that there aren't ex-military officers at the FBI who really wouldn't mind hunting the domestic cells down and dragging their sorry azzes into a courtroom?

Am I also to believe that there aren't CIA-paid paratroopers who could not unload some whupazz in any remote area of the world, bust some heads, and drag these sunsabiatches before the world to face justice?

This computer program-oriented, database administration, hard drive-style security simply ain't cutting it. It's time to let our men off the chain and get back to doing things our way; some overpaid computer technician with secretarial skills ain't gonna get it done.

Enough defense. Enough bullshiat. It's time for the offense to take the field and let the bad guys worry about us for a change. Otherwise people, it IS going to turn into the wild wild west here, at home, amongst our children, friends, and family.
 
2004-07-15 10:48:16 AM
Here's an idea: why not let everyone carry pocket knives (nothing bigger), and see if any terrorists try to hijack a plane full of angry, swiss army knife wielding passengers.

Lots of little stab marks, and oh the tweezers!!!

Also, the last thing the gov't came in under budget on was the Hoover Dam.
 
2004-07-15 10:49:31 AM
Who decides who the "bad guys" are?

/can't fight terror with terror
 
2004-07-15 10:49:34 AM
I would love a VIP First Class-like security walkthrough. However, anyone else could get one, too. No dice. Everyone gets screened. Exceptions to security are a problem waiting to happen.
 
2004-07-15 10:49:38 AM
WenchyWoman enave, I posted the above comments while you were posting yours. I see you do realize BushII's actions have had at least some negative consequences...

oh, ok. Well then please ignore my last post.

Let me just add one thing if I may:
Can you honestly not see how our war and occupation of Iraq has given terrorists more fuel for their fires?

If I interpret that correctly, you're pointing out that it is undoubtedly easier for terrorists to find new recruits these days. In my humble opinion, saying "terrorist recruitment rates are at an all-time high" is a bit like saying, "airline security is at an all time high." Both statements are true, but both of these facts are pretty much irrelevant.

Recruitment is important for an organization like the PLO. What they need are a lot of people and pretty much any person will do. They need to get a lot of recruits and convince them to strap bombs to themselves and walk into supermarkets. The military equivalent of foot soldiers. Al Queda doesn't work like that. At least not anymore. Al quada had a lot of foot soldiers. They were in afganistan. We kicked their asses pretty easily. It will take years for alquada to replace them and when they do... so what? Foot soldiers are worthless to al queada.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just not particularly concerned by the fact that terrorists can get more recruits now than before.
 
2004-07-15 10:50:26 AM
enave

Extending the olive branch to Europe and other nations doesn't equal being soft on terrorism. In fact, Bush's "go it alone" policy IS being soft on terrorism. We need to be an open world community if we want to root out the jerkwads who want to destroy it.

For me, the war in Iraq was counterproductive to this because:

1) It made the world turn against us, after having their 100% support.

2) Committed WAY too many resources and military against someone who was WAY down on the priority list. Who is more dangerous: a brutal dictator whose obsession with staying in power would probably prevent him from ever attacking America or elusive, nationless killers who will and have attacked America on its own soil?

3) Potentially has started another terrorist breeding ground, especially if Iraq breaks down into civil war.

4) Iraq has caused America to lose its moral high ground. We were the good guys. Now with Abu Ghraib and many other prison scandals surfacing, we are seen as bullies rather than a hero.

I know a lot of Bushies hate to admit this, but liberals, conservatives, and everyone inbetween was for going to Afghanistan. That was the start of cracking down on terrorists. It is the war in Iraq that has the country and the world divided, most likely in part to the reasons I listed.
 
2004-07-15 10:54:39 AM
Who decides who the "bad guys" are?

You do. I do. We do.
 
2004-07-15 10:55:21 AM
enave

If you had even the tiniest capacity for rational thought you would realize that 9/11 took years of planning and staging, all of which happened on Clinton's watch.

Bush, however, was warned WELL ahead of time by the outgoing Clinton administration of the danger that Bin Laden presented...they just chose to ignore these warnings.
 
2004-07-15 10:57:35 AM

2004-07-15 09:46:11 AM MightyTribble


Wow. This is big. CAPPS II is dead. And only 24 comments so far? The government / TSA does something not-stupid for once, and folks aren't interested?


I think you're mistaking the normal fark crowd for sophiticated frequent travelling businessmen. Please check the number and try your call again.

I'm glad it's out. There were too many holes in it.


2004-07-15 10:43:31 AM rwhamann


Cool, so I still have to get "randomly" selected every time I fly because my name "looks" middle eastern, even though I'm a blond-haired white guy with a USAF ID card. Even the inspectors feel like I should be able to be expedited when they see my ID card.


Mine was pink, instead of green. Being in the Guards. But that big eagle emblem does open a few more doors. I miss it.

The ID. Not the Guards.
 
2004-07-15 11:03:07 AM
. Al quada had a lot of foot soldiers. They were in afganistan. We kicked their asses pretty easily. It will take years for alquada to replace them and when they do... so what? Foot soldiers are worthless to al queada.

I think someone is confusing the Taliban and Al Queda.

Al Queda is an international terrorist network, spanning several organizations and regions. The Taliban (who met with cheney about 2 months before 9/11, btw) was, and still is, mostly routed in afghanistan. They are also still around, as the military force we sent to afghanistan was minimal. Tiny compared to iraq.
 
2004-07-15 11:04:05 AM
It's interesting. I was flying back from the dominican republic a while ago and in this thatched roof airport (your read right) the US3000 (or some other budget airline) had three aluminum tables set up, manned by three guys going through all the American's luggage. Also, in case they failed, there was a fourth guy with a dog. Over in my Air Transat line... it was just baggage check as usual.

Thank god I'm not American.
 
MN8
2004-07-15 11:08:02 AM
Neither the Submitter or the Mod read the article... Thanks for paying attention guys...
 
2004-07-15 11:08:24 AM
I was hoping against hope that the frequent flier security bypass would be tested in Pittsburgh.

Unfortunately, as US Airways continues to have a virtual lock on most of the gates and prices reflecting their monopoly status, we just don't have a heck of a lot of frequent fliers out here.

But I'm still hoping FAA introduces biometric scans before my status expires. I have fewer issues with that than being herded like cattle.
 
2004-07-15 11:08:32 AM
Good candidate for the "Obvious" tag.
 
2004-07-15 11:08:33 AM
Ridge said a new program with a different name might be developed to take the place of CAPPS II. But if enough people volunteer to provide personal information through a new "registered traveler" program, that alone could replace CAPPS II.

The Transportation Security Administration had budgeted $60 million for CAPPS II next year alone.


SO they spent all this money developing it and while they are shelving it now, it's probably going to come back just with a different name? Wonderful. Looks like I'm driving to Florida for my next vacation.
 
2004-07-15 11:13:19 AM
Mercutio

I remember the last time I was in europe. I was ordering some Pomme Frite (french fries) and the guy looks at us and says "Americans?"

I say "yeah. And bush is an ass." (trying to cut off any possible spitting-in-food or abusive relations)

The guy said started laughing insanely. He then said "So, you did not vote for him?" I said "Most americans didnt vote for him. Many of us think he stole it."

Then he asked us why we didnt do anything about it. I said "Well, people dont want to get shot. People are afraid. The best we can do is wait until the next election."

He laughed again, with that loud over-the-top laugh, and said "You promise to get rid of him?" I said "We'll do our best."

Then he gave me free Pomme Frite, and let me tell you.. They were the best damn fries Ive ever had.

Pity the Ketchup in Europe sucks.

/pointless, yet fun story.
 
2004-07-15 11:19:31 AM
YES!! MORE PROCTECTION FROM TERRORISTS! GOD THEY'RE EVERYWHERE! IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES! IN SCHOOLS!! IN AIRPORTS!! THEY COULD EVEN BE ON FARK.COM!!! EVERYONE IS A POTENTIAL TERRORIST!!

Bush/Cheyney '04 - Because there's still so much stuff to destroy!!
 
2004-07-15 11:28:08 AM
Yes, yes, let's take the reins off of the FBI and CIA, so they can go back to fruitfully stalking the modern-day equivalents of Martin Luther King Jr. and Abbie Hoffman.
 
2004-07-15 11:29:15 AM
enave
Dictators do think twice about their actions now. They have to consider the possibility that the US will remove them from power.

Which dictators? The one in Iran? North Korea? Cuba? ANy number of ones in Africa?

Oh. You mean Kaddafi. "Libya came to us in March [2003] following successful negotiations on Lockerbie to see if it could resolve its weapons of mass destruction issue in a similarly co-operative manner."
 
kcm
2004-07-15 11:29:22 AM
ketchup in europe? jesus man, try the mayo dip next time. there's a lot of belgian-type places springing up in NYC and SF, and god damned if they're not pretty close to the original from europe.
 
2004-07-15 11:31:00 AM
Bush/Cheyney '04 - Because there's still so much stuff to destroy!!

No one is going to even vote for Bush this year. Not because they are sick of the BS, because the elections are going to be "postponed" because of a "terrorist threat" and it will *just happen* to never be "safe" enough to hold them again.

Hail Czar Bush!

/super fearful of the direction America is heading
 
2004-07-15 11:35:23 AM
If you had even the tiniest capacity for rational thought you would realize that 9/11 took years of planning and staging, all of which happened on Clinton's watch.

This is precisely my point. You wont place any blame at all on Clinton. It's all W's fault because he just happened to be in office. On the other hand, when the reverse happens, when there is a terrorist attack "on Kerry's watch" you will do the opposite. You will blame bush and excuse Kerry.

I really don't think you're capable of thinking clearly or logically.


so it's ok to point out that the 9/11 planning may have occurred under Clinton, but it's not OK to point out that events under Bush's watch may come to fruition later?

also, it's ok to demonize Clinton simply for the fact that Al Qaida got their shiat togeher under his watch, but it's not ok to point out that W has an active hand in creating future threats?

yeah, that's thinking clearly and logically.


BTW - if there is an attack under Kerry's watch, the Bush administration will be very much to blame for completely obfuscating the concept of threat evaluation. They've jumped from "there's no threat" to "everything's a threat", and are now the equivalent of yelling "Wolf on fire" in a crowded theater while wearing sheep's clothing.

Anyone who can decipher the supposed "intelligence" they've gathered in the last three years deserves a Nobel prize, and the threat evaluation they hand over will be very different from the reports they received from Clinton.

Apples and Oranges. The Bush administration's intelligence and risk management program now is about getting re-elected, not about protection. As such, the new administration will be starting off from much further back than Bush did.
 
2004-07-15 11:37:00 AM
I still prefered my plan of not letting middle eastern people on airplanes.

biased, yes
racist, yes
but would it farkin solve the problem?

/one ticket please
 
2004-07-15 11:46:41 AM
I flew a couple days ago, and somehow the ticket agent checked me in as somebody else and gave me a boarding pass with the wrong name on it. I didn't notice this error, and despite security cross-checking IDs and boarding passes both at security screening AND at the gate, I made it all the way onto the plane with the wrong documents. Only when the crew announced the headcount on the plane did not match the passenger manifest did I check my ticket stub and finally discover their error. Otherwise we would probably still be on the ground. So the security ultimately "worked", but I had accidentally made it through 3 separate photo ID checks before the problem was found.
 
2004-07-15 11:54:42 AM
I'm starting an airline called PorkAir. The planes will be shaped like pigs, the food will be ham and bacon, and there will be live pigs on board. I promise that it'll be one airline that does not suffer from Islamic terrorism.


"PorkAir. Because when you fly, it's sucks to get blowed the f*ck up."
 
2004-07-15 11:55:28 AM
Why does everything have to boil down to "it's W's fault; or it's Clinton's fault". Why don't Americans try to solve the problem together?
If something was Clinton's fault; is the situation any better now? Probably not.
If somthing was Bush's fault; will the situation get better once Kerry gets elected? Probably not.

Stop the partisan fighting and work together.

Lastly, how many Americans died from terrorist attacks in the last decade? Does the money, (time, energy, party division) spent on "fighting-terrorism" (we will assume that this is, in fact, somewhat possible) seem proportional to the number of deaths? (or is it just hurt pride?)
 
kcm
2004-07-15 11:56:39 AM
some countries do keep bags of pig fat on public transportation due to the belief that one's body touching it before death will make it unclean. so, bus explode -> flying pig fat -> no virgins.
 
2004-07-15 11:58:45 AM
This headline gets approved? This one?
 
2004-07-15 12:11:33 PM
brywalker:

 
2004-07-15 12:12:08 PM
bludstone - great story. Got into a similar conversation in Italy, and promised to do my best to get Bush voted out.


I'm paraonoid about the PATRIOT act and my personal data, BUT...I am also one of those sniveling hypocrits who decries our loss of privacy and will be first in line if a trusted traveler program ever becomes available out of PHL.

The security lines everywhere are appalling and unpredictable. One day you arrive 2 hours ahead, 10 people are in line, and you get to zip right through the "First Class/Chairman's/Gold/Silver" security line. The next time you show up, the line is hundreds of people long, and sorry, no special lines for frequent travelers.

Thank god for ticket kiosks, because I'd slit my own throat if I had to go through ticketing lines as well on domestic travel. Families with all their worldly goods, older people checking those little scooter things, people re-packing at the ticket counter to avoid fees....AAARRRGGG. Sorry, but I'm one of those idiots who carries-on all my luggage (in regulation-sized bags)
 
2004-07-15 12:18:51 PM
GOOD! Glad they scraped that..Bad they spent all the money to begin with on this STUPID concept! They'd end up with a database full of law abiding citizens, because the hijackers would not use real names. DUH! Even my 10 year old niece figured that out without even trying.

And as far as building a 'volunteer' database of all this information, I suppose Ridge has never heard of the IRS, that has it all, already.

Dumasses...

Everything about it.
 
2004-07-15 12:31:49 PM
Hmmmm...

Not all airliners have the same security measures, which doesn't seem like a good idea.

I flew to (of all places) France, through Air Canada (Terminal 2A at Charles DeGualle is the crappiest airport terminal I've ever been in...). We went through several security checkpoints in Toronto and Montreal.

On the way home, we had a stop at London Heathrow. We went through a grand total of one Security checkpoint, which was before we got shuttled from one Terminal to another.

So, what's the difference if they only send us through one security checkpoint, no matter how many terminals we go to, or if they rank us by "terroristic threat" and let us go through one security checkpoint, if any?

We're all numbers anyway.

//gets in line for the barcode ass tattoo.
 
2004-07-15 12:43:40 PM
At the risk of violating the rules of a flamewar, I gotta agree that the problem isn't with anyone, it's with everyone. Those of us who are Americans probably enjoy what we have. Our excesses, our freedoms, and our strenghts are things that a lot of those terrorists despise. So you have a choice to make in every course. Do you kep all our liberties intact? If so, don't whilne and biatch when the FBI takes their dear sweet time to build a case against someone, that's what they have to do under the law. Want the FBI / CIA to go balls out and waste the bad guys? Don't be surprised when someone you know gets killed, too, and your personal freedoms are at least partially supressed. Want all this crap to end peacefully? OK, are you going to convince the other guys to change or are you just going to cave into their demands? Leave them alone in their own part of the world, you say? How? America is the superpower. Our influence is everywhere. Our technologies make the world a very small place, and it's borderline impossible to be isolationist anymore. This terrorism thing will end when one side is completely anihilated, one side completely caves into the other's demands, or when a third party comes along and starts kicking the collective asses of everyone. Please quit trying to pass the blame and figure out how to go on with your lives.

/tired of whiny people biatching about who's fault terrorism is as they eat bacon and fark the shizzle out of their non-spouse
 
2004-07-15 01:12:38 PM
Ridge said a new program with a different name might be developed to take the place of CAPPS II.

Just like Total, uh, I mean Terror Information Awareness...
 
2004-07-15 02:55:43 PM
kliq - you seem to be drastically, drastically overestimating how fond the Europeans were toward us before the Iraq invasion.

bludstone - oh, that's just wonderful, give Europeans even more ridiculous misinformation about what things are like in the United States. You aren't going to get shot at for saying you don't like Bush, you dumbass drama queen. Or have the Fark message boards been draining out because every single participant is rounded up and tossed in jail? Hell no they haven't.

Goddammit, I'm not even a conservative or anything much of a Bush supporter but I still can't stand this ridiculous drama-queenery that everybody on every side of the political spectrum is engaging in. Goddamn, threads like this piss me off so much.
 
2004-07-15 04:14:04 PM
"and yes, I plan on blaming most things on bush for the remainder of my lifetime. get used to it."

At least he is honest about it.

/pities Europeans for being Islamist coddling Jew haters
 
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