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(CNN)   US Female military personnel in Saudia Arabia no longer required to wear muslim dress. Instead they will go topless   ( divider line
    More: Spiffy  
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11336 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2002 at 8:44 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

125 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-01-23 08:43:19 AM  
What do you get when you cross two Tomcats, a FAC & BMP?

A Suprise!
2002-01-23 08:46:24 AM  
Your noble allies, thank goodness they have all that oil.
2002-01-23 08:48:08 AM  
Strange. When I was briefed about overseas deployment in the Middle East, none of the women in the group were told about wearing burkhas. Guess it was something they sprung on you when you were in.
2002-01-23 08:52:17 AM  
Can they go off based wearing a flag from a small town in Georgia...?
2002-01-23 08:54:04 AM  
2002-01-23 08:59:04 AM  
i like the american philosophy of when in rome, take over.
2002-01-23 09:03:50 AM  
can they drink beer and smoke pot now too?
2002-01-23 09:08:03 AM  
This is an incredibly stupid idea. I expect that the females will voluntarily wear the burkhas anyway.
2002-01-23 09:16:18 AM  
Thanks Jackie, nice one...

IIRC, McSally is an Eagle driver, she has a pretty valid point, she's good enough to help defend the Saudis in the air, but on the ground she loses many of her rights.

None of our other allies in the region require the same actions on the part of American females.

2002-01-23 09:19:40 AM  
Actually, Jackie, that set of photos looks an awful lot like some video I saw of a Chechen ambush of a Russian convoy last April.

I clearly remember the bodies flying in the air. I even think it was posted to Fark once.
2002-01-23 09:20:14 AM  
And people wonder why so many people around the world hate the US when we bomb one opressive group of assholes, but prop up and defend another group. What a crock.
2002-01-23 09:22:20 AM  
Also if you look at figure two the guys on the BMP have uniforms on.

Jackie, you can fool some of fark all of the time, and all of fark some of the time but only if you try a little harder than that.
2002-01-23 09:25:49 AM  
Does this mean that when any strict Islamist visit the US they can beat random women with sticks for not wearing burkas?
2002-01-23 09:29:34 AM  
Well put Blumf.
2002-01-23 09:38:35 AM  
I keep saying that we need to let our Saudi "allies" swing in the breeze and pump our money into Russia. They have large reserves of oil, they could use our investment into their country, and they aren't fanatical religious zealots with a 7th century attitude.

It's time to stop playing lip service to the cold war being over, and actually treat it as over. Dealing with Russia is win-win. We get oil, we strengthen our relationship with an important country, and we get to stop dealing with the Saudi's.
2002-01-23 09:40:21 AM  
Right, and George and his texas oilmen friends are really going to go for that.
2002-01-23 09:41:45 AM  
last thing we would ever want is to respect anyone elses ideas.... america is right in every way... so when in other countrys its best to ignore their belifes to show them how silly they are
2002-01-23 09:41:46 AM  
"Martha McSally's lawsuit calls the policy unconstitutional and says it improperly forces American women to conform to others' religious and social customs."

Good for you!
2002-01-23 09:49:25 AM  
Blumf: "Does this mean that when any strict Islamist visit the US they can beat random women with sticks for not wearing burkas?"

No, it means they must watch piss videos.
2002-01-23 09:51:35 AM  
Actually, Saudia Arabia has no law requiring that the women wear burkhas. The US put that in there because someone decided it would be a good idea. Women officers were forced to act subordinate to their male NCOs when off base. Of course the Saudis didn't require this. One woman finally sued them, and this is why they replealed it. About time if you ask me.
2002-01-23 09:52:30 AM  
Yeah, and let citizens of Vatican city sodomize our children in the streets when they visit America?

No. I don't think so. Toss on the towel you stupid slut and obey the laws of the country you are visiting. Or sit on base and rot.
2002-01-23 09:55:50 AM  
NaTaX: Learn the laws of the country before you biatch. Saudi Arabia does NOT require women to cover themselves. CNN conveinently leaves that point out.
2002-01-23 09:57:13 AM  
Amen, Sheridan. I was stationed in Saudi for a year, and it was farking ridiculous what the women over there had to go through. First of all, the Abaya is hotter than hell. The one's that are issued to our servicewomen are black, and you can imagine just how comfortable that is in the Saudi sun.

I was an E-5, and if my commander had to go into the city for some reason I had to drive her. Not to mention while in public, she had to defer to me.

Sorry, but if you want the US to stay in country (which until recently the Saudi's emphatically did), then you have to take the good with the bad. Our women aren't second class citizens; deal with it if you want our protection.
2002-01-23 09:58:59 AM  
So much for respecting the culture of an allied host country. Damn arrogant hoes. I hope they'll be given a good caning the moment they set their foot outside their base.
2002-01-23 10:04:29 AM  
Ok, time to stop posting in this thread. I see it's going to be biatch about women, when you actually have no clue as to what you are talking about. I guess ignorance really is bliss.
2002-01-23 10:07:32 AM  
Harmonia I am not trying to fool anyone. As far as I know, the photo is what it says it is. But I did get it off the internet, so it is questionable by default.
Good point about the Uniforms though. The first thing that I thought when I saw it was that it looked like the BMP hit a land mine.
2002-01-23 10:09:15 AM  
Think about this hypothetical situation:
The united states has troops in a country that practices racial apartheid. All black servicemen must wear a collar and be led around by their white counterparts when off base, even general Powell. We would never even CONSIDER it. This is the same thing. But for some reason the US government is willing to accept gender aparthied where it draws a hard line on racial aparthied. It's ok if women are slaves, for some reason. Showing respect for another culture is one thing. making slaves of our servicewomen goes too far.
2002-01-23 10:11:54 AM  
I remember a news story years ago (early 90's) about some US kid living in SA acting like a brat and spraying several cars with paint. The punishment given by the Saudi judges was to be flogged. Unsurprisingly there was a bit of an outcry from the US about this.

Anyone else remember this as it's all from long faded memory (may not have been SA etc)
2002-01-23 10:13:46 AM  
and heaven forbid they have a little tolerance for our beliefs considering we are doing their asses a favor...
2002-01-23 10:14:33 AM  
Blumf, it was Singapore.

And American opinion was generally of "the kid committed a crime, he;ll have to take the punishment".

2002-01-23 10:15:09 AM  
It was singapore, where chewing gum in public can get you a ticket, but at least women don't have to wear burquas.
2002-01-23 10:15:36 AM  
Jackie: I believe the Chechens said that it was a radio-detonated explosive in the road.

Blumf: It was Singapore.
2002-01-23 10:15:40 AM  
You are protecting an unelected royal family for the benifit of them and western oil multi-nationals.

How noble.
2002-01-23 10:17:44 AM  
Ta, 3horn & Someguy, like I said faded momory.
2002-01-23 10:17:56 AM  
Harmonia How about your unelected royal family? I know they don't have power but there they are.
2002-01-23 10:19:28 AM  
Blumf, I think you may be thinking about the guy who was caned in... Singapor I think it was. Although, with their love of beheading people and chopping off limbs in public I would not be surprised if their law called for corporal punishment also. But the guy who was caned that I remember was in east asia, and I am pretty sure he was beaten for spraypainting cars.
2002-01-23 10:19:37 AM  
Ok, just can't leave.
Blumf: That wasn't Saudi Arabia, it was Thailand, I believe. And how does that compare with this situation? In one, the person commits a crime and deals with that conties punishment. In the ohter, the person has to obey 'laws' which don't actually exist, and is forced to demean themselves because of those laws. Not seeing the connection
2002-01-23 10:19:38 AM  
I think most folks in the states wanted to pass Singapore laws after that incident.
2002-01-23 10:21:06 AM  
Bubbajam "Last thing we would ever want is to respect anyone elses ideas.... america is right in every way... so when in other countrys its best to ignore their belifes to show them how silly they are."

Some ideas from other countries are silly. Some ideas from other countries are just plain inhumane. Our American women staioned in Saudi Arabia should have the same freedoms that our service men have.

I as a former Marine would stand for a host country to make me wear something a restricting as a burka/abaya. Simply because I'm a man. No f*cking way.
2002-01-23 10:21:39 AM  
Thailand - read: singapore
2002-01-23 10:24:25 AM  
Harmonia wrote:
"You are protecting an unelected royal family for the benifit of them and western oil multi-nationals.

How noble."

And the minute that Saudi Arabia told us that they no longer wanted us there we would leave. It's as simple as that. They invited us in, and it's by their sufferance that we stay there. That being said, if they want our protection they need to accept that we have different values, like not treating people born without a penis as property.

And as was mentioned earlier, Saudi doesn't mandate that American women wear the abaya. All they've asked is that they dress conservatively. This is more a case of our military going above and beyond what was asked for. When it comes down to it, we need women in the military. Quite frankly, they're an integral part of our force now and our ability to project powe would be hampered without them. It's not right to expect women to have to jump through hoops and not expect men to have to do the same.
2002-01-23 10:25:09 AM  

kymry<------gets worked up over chicks' rights
2002-01-23 10:29:58 AM  
Kymry: I just love how in this case liberals are jumping all over the big bad US imposing it's values on a foreign people.

Meanwhile conservatives that have been in the military are the one's calling this policy bullshiat and sticking up for women.
2002-01-23 10:31:25 AM  
"And the minute that Saudi Arabia told us that they no longer wanted us there we would leave. It's as simple as that"

And how would they do that considering they dont have any elections or a free press?
2002-01-23 10:33:29 AM  
Harmonia: Um, they still have a gov't...
2002-01-23 10:35:14 AM  
When I in the Marines (87-94)I was asked by my commander (First Mar Div Comptroller) If I wanted some time "In country" to benefit my long term career. (No real need for accountants in combat) I said "Sir, If I put my ass on the line to defend a foreing power in the blistering heat and they had the oddacity to forbid me a "cold one" when I'm off duty. Then no hell no I won't go!"
Unless you order me to......

BTW, I got to stay in Cali and drink a couple for my uniformed homeys.
2002-01-23 10:35:25 AM  
Made up of a bunch of royal parasites Capt,
2002-01-23 10:35:59 AM  
Harmonia wrote:
"And how would they do that considering they dont have any elections or a free press?"

It's not our job to overthrow the current regime and install a democracy within every country that has unelected leadership. That's the job of the Saudi people. If they haven't thethe will to overthrow ir leadership that's their problem, not ours.
2002-01-23 10:36:22 AM  
sure, they can lose the special "No Arab Erection" clothing, but as soon as they get raped by some repressed camel jockey, everyone will be pissed.

It is obvious Islam requires women to wear these outfits because of the lack of self-control of Muslim men around women.

Islam: Submit to the will of Allah and get a chubby looking at a bare ankle.
2002-01-23 10:36:55 AM  
Stank_Hippie, I"m a Liberal.....this policy is bullshiat!
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