I've read that the French do this shiat with wine and champagne as well.

Germany's version is probably more efficient, but doesn't go well with French wine...

Do they want cheese with their whine?

Silly as it sounds, there is a general reasoning behind this. The regional variations inherent in production of foods creates subtle differences in flavour, scent, and texture that cannot truly be avoided. Claiming something as "parmesan" when it isn't made in the same process as the "real deal" is about the same as trying to claim that Pepsi is Coke, just because they're both colas.

If someone expects to get true parmesan, and gets something that tastes or crumbles in a different way, they've been somewhat ripped off. Especially if they're trying to cook something - proper ingredients have a LOT to say on the final quality of the dish.

/hobbyist chef
//cooks with organics for taste
///yes, you can tell the difference

If you buy it from a grocery store (in the US anyway) you know for a fact before you buy it is NOT the real thing.

/Wonders when the EU is going to sue the US for having World Champion (American) Football when no other country plays it...
//UN Sucks

Mmmmmm... Parmesan cheese... I never knew the difference between the "real" and the "fake" stuff until my (now) husband brought it to me when he visited the 'States last year.

There is no substitute for the real thing - no siree bub!

They take this stuff real seriously here in Reggio Emilia - rounds of 'Parmigiano Reggiano' are used as collateral in banks. You can tell why, if you've tried it.

It really isn't that hard to find. Granted, you have to step away from Kraft to get there - but import stores and specialty markets have really great options. Keep in mind, though, that such efforts are only really necessary if you're cooking for a date or a goodly number of friends.

You'd be surprised how well that "through the stomach" adage works in reverse. A good meal works wonders on people. =)

I thought America invented pizza, buffalo wings, spaghetti, brie cheese, Swiss Miss, Ricola Ricola Ricola~~~~!

adoreageek

"They take this stuff real seriously here in Reggio Emilia--rounds of 'Parmigiano Reggiano' are used as collateral in banks."

Very Cool post. The things you learn on FARK.

I thought Al Gore invented Parmesan cheese and pizza!

there may be subtle regional differences, but stuff like this will be the death of the EU...

You mean Gore DIDN'T invent pizza?

We're going to get crap from them about this too. The EU wanted to pass a law earlier that would prohibit people from claiming there food was something that it isn't. For cheese to be Parmesan cheese, it better damn well be from northern Italy. If not, then it's a facsimile and must explicitly state it.

The have much stricter laws over there about what you can say about products. In short, you can't get away with nearly as many lies as here. Some of the commercials we see are shown there then kicked off the air, such as Apple's infamous commercial claiming it had the "fastest, most powerful PC". That didn't float so well over there.

I don't think the EU is going anywhere. As much as they try and deny it, every European nation depends on the others so significantly for their economic survival that they existed as a functional confederation LONG before the European Union formalized it. Add to that the need for non-U.S. military forces (which no individual country can fully produce or man, and yet all could use for that dodgy political game of "just in case"), and you're looking more at problems of adjustment rather than true failure of a system.

The various countries of Europe may not like each other, but what communally scares the bejezus out of them is the thought of becoming politically irrelevant on an international stage. It is that factor which motivated them to take this step in the first place, and it is that fear which will keep them (mostly) bound together. They do NOT want to fall into shadow, economically or diplomatically. Most nations tend to work that way.

Drakkenmaw- Exactly. Finally an entirely intelligent post on fark!

It's hard to imagine what North America would be like if the US had formed several different countries instead. Before some idiot says "We'd all be speaking German, durp!" I think it deserves closer inspection.

You mean that the stuff the Kraft Foods sells in those round green containers is fake? OMG!

Today Germany, Tomorrow the World!

In addition to parmesan cheese, they will be suing over pilsner, bologna, champagne, etc, etc, etc...

Other products causing indigestion

This isn't as strange as it may seem to you- there are dozens of conflicts like this in the EU, especially when it comes to tipical regional produce.
I think the first to sue were the french vineyards from the Champagne when everybody who made sparkly wine started to call it "Champagne".
There are a lot of laws regulating correct food denominations- in Italy, the original producers are given the "DOC" certificate- which means "di origine controllata", and only the certificate owners can sell their stuff under the original name.
Having lived in Germany, i can say that the so-called "Parmesan" they sell is the most disgusting fake shiat- looks and tastes like sawdust with fake cheese smell added.
If you want real parmigiano, buy whole chunks and check the label if the producer's italian.

lindseyp

Oh I've no doubt the US does it too, but the catfish battle isn't a good example.

As everyone knows, Vietnam's catfish, belong to the Pangasiidae family, while American catfish are in the Ictalariidae family.

They aren't the same fish.

if you think it is stupid, then you are most likely eating the fake stuff and would not the difference anyways.
a client of mine from Parma gave to me as a gift a huge piece of parmesan , the good stuff that you can't even get Milan, which is only a few hours away. I can't descibe how good it was, even my Italian friends in Milan went crazy for it. when ever I go somewhere I bring a few kilos of Italian cheese with me for my friends that I am visiting and watch them devourer the stuff like they have never eaten amazing cheese before.

I'm just saying , there is a difference.

lindseyp

...and as for import premiums put on European steel by the US to "protect the steel industry"......well that was good for Americans not in that industry too.

Surely it is up to a company to keep pace with the competition?

Oh , wait. The arms industry uses a lot of steel. I wonder who could have an interest in assisting the arms industry?

It's marketing, pure and simple. Just as Coca-Cola hates it when people make "coke" into a generic noun, as it weakens the association to THEIR particular product, the people from the areas which originated parmesan want to keep their hold on the product name rather than have their own production buried in a sea of cheaper foreign imitators.

Same with champagne, same with "Florida oranges," same with ANYTHING which has a region of producers who depend on the product for their livelihoods. Every group tries to demonstrate that only THEY can produce the "tried and true taste," and thus people should "ask for it by name!" And, in a sense, they are quite right. Is Chicago deepdish better in Chicago? Having been there, hell yes.

It's a money thing. They don't want their image diluted with cheaper, less-quality products. That hurts them coming and going, as less people buy their own product AND their product's perception is lessened by the poor nature of the budget competitors. So they seek to protect their name, to distinguish themselves from others.

As a public service for those interested in real parmesan, and who may try using the grater attachment on their Kitchen Aid mixers to grate it fresh: don't. I tried this and when it got down to that wonderful funky-looking rind, which is about as edible as the heat tiles on the space shuttle, the rind got wedged so completely on one side of the grater that the other side began grating off the plastic of the attachment. I kid you not on this.

Grate it if you're going to put it in something.
Slice it if you're going to put it ON something.

/so speaketh the chef

Oh well, look at the bright side. I for one and relieved to see that this is how Europeans settle their differences these days. It sure beats the old method.

A fight over parmesan cheese?

THAT STINKS!


/obligatory

shouldn't that have the "hero" icon?

Don't worry, italy will become bored with the fight, put up no resistance and eventually the majority of them will switch sides. Then they'll hang their leader and claim victory.

2004-07-13 07:54:05 AM Dil Doe

Oh well, look at the bright side. I for one and relieved to see that this is how Europeans settle their differences these days. It sure beats the old method.

True dat, man.

Think about it though - this is just another form of IP ownership and trademark fights. Cheese from a certain region wants to be recognized and doesn't want lesser quality cheese using the same name.

//loves dutch cheeses
//loves Vermont cheddar too
//think global, cook local ;-)

In the same vein, the spaghetti sauce brand Dolmio had to put a caption "made in Holland" in their adverts, while using Italian accents...

lindseyp

It's alot like saying two breeds of dogs are genetically virtually identical.
They are both dogs, but they may not look anything alike.

There is plenty of room for both sides to argue.

chenry
Don't worry, italy will become bored with the fight, put up no resistance and eventually the majority of them will switch sides. Then they'll hang their leader and claim victory.


Why does the modern Italian fleet have glass bottomed ships?
.
.
.
.
.
So they can see the old Italian fleet!

To all those that say this is a stupid EU thing, I say to you - America has far more crazy intellectual property laws than Europe. Besides, you can bet if someone created something like 'Oreos', a 'Big Mac' or a 'Frappucino' - the respective trademark holders would be all over them.

This is no different from those situations, except here, the trademark holder is the local government or farmer collective.

Blessed are the Cheesemakers!

>>This is no different from those situations, except here, the trademark holder is the local government or farmer collective.<<

Except Parma didn't copyright or trademark their name. Sucks to be them.

The word "Parmesan" is always spelled with a capital (uppercase) "P" when referring to the cheese. In a list of pizza ingredients, one might see, "topped with white cheddar, mozzarella, and Pamesan cheeses." Sure looks like a trademark to me.

Kraft's version of "Parmesan" is little more than fake cow's milk Romano that has been aged longer. Real Romano, by the way, is Pecorino Romano, made with sheep's milk instead of cow's milk.

Roquefort cheese has to be from Roquefort, France. It is not just bleu cheese.

Nachitoches Meat Pies are properly only made in Nachitoches, LA (and by the owners of one particular restaurant there, to boot).


Epistax:

It's hard to imagine what North America would be like if the US had formed several different countries instead. Before some idiot says "We'd all be speaking German, durp!" I think it deserves closer inspection.

Get thee to a comic book shop or eBay or some such and try to score a complete collection of the original Steeldragon Press 12-issue comic book limited series by Will Shetterly entitled Captain Confederacy (the sequel from Epic Comics is not quite as good, but still worthwhile). Trust me on this.

Living on a steady diet of government cheese.

Oh my god, a counterfeit cheese ring operating out of my car hole!

/creative license taken

Disposable Rob
Except Parma didn't copyright or trademark their name. Sucks to be them.
"Parmigiano"or "Parmesan" means "from Parma"- if that isn't a trademark of the city, i don't know what is.
You don't have to trademark or copyright a product's name if the name is associated with hundreds of years of regional tradition. It's common law that these names are legally regarded as trademarks, even without the formal process of copyright protection.

Also, Epistax, check out Orson Scott Card's series of fantasy novels entitled The Tales of Alvin Maker. These include, in order, to date:
• Seventh Son
• Red Prophet
• 'Prentice Alvin
• Heartfires
• The Crystal City

One more remains to be published. This is a fantasy without an elf, dwarf, hobbit, or dragon in sight. Nobody wields a sword, enchanted or otherwise. It is set in an alternate 19th-Century America with a dual divergence from reality: #1, Oliver Cromwell didn't die young, and remained the Lord Protector, so the King of England was in exile; and #2, folk magic (knacks, hexes, etc.) really works. All other differences can be traced to these.

The United States proper was only formed from the colonies south of New England (which remained loyal to the Lord Protector, and where anyone with a knack faces persecution, expulsion, or even execution for "witchcraft") and north of the southern Colonies, now called the Crown Colonies (where the King of England fled into exile, and where slavery is legal) and Appalachee (what we today call Appalachia - the use of older, less-modified Indian names for territories and land features is a major charm of this series).

(Note to FARK.com Comment Thingie programmers: please re-enable the use of list HTML tags such as <ul>, <ol>, <li>, etc.! I hate having to do bullets manually!)

>>The word Parmesan is always spelled with a capital (uppercase) P when referring to the cheese. In a list of pizza ingredients, one might see, topped with white cheddar, mozzarella, and Pamesan cheeses. Sure looks like a trademark to me.<<

Then where's the little . It ain't a trademark without the little .

Anyway, don't these arguments always come back around to snobs who are unable to look at a label and see where the food was made.

Well, apparrently Fark doesn't like the little "TM".

As a public service for those interested in real parmesan, and who may try using the grater attachment on their Kitchen Aid mixers to grate it fresh: don't. I tried this and when it got down to that wonderful funky-looking rind, which is about as edible as the heat tiles on the space shuttle, the rind got wedged so completely on one side of the grater that the other side began grating off the plastic of the attachment. I kid you not on this.


I keep the rinds in a ziplock bag in the freezer. Add a rind or two to a pot of soup I am cooking, it's wonderful.

Broktun