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(Telegraph)   Greenpeace "traitor" hunted down like fat whale by former comrades   (portal.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 55
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5933 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2002 at 8:48 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-01-22 09:08:10 AM  
This should have Hero tag on it.
 
2002-01-22 09:11:43 AM  
Or obvious...
 
2002-01-22 09:22:49 AM  
Like I've always said, most environmentalist claims have very little, if any, actual scientific backing. Tree-huggers HATE scientists since they through out cold hard facts to back up their arguement rather than dressing up as a grim reaper and chaining themselves to a fence.

Most of those Greenpeace yahoos have absolutly no clue as to what they are protesting against.
 
2002-01-22 09:27:58 AM  
While Cleighton just doesnt have a clue about anything.

With a name like Lord Melchitt they really should have suused out where he would end up.
 
2002-01-22 09:29:14 AM  
"employs the strategy of those who argue that gay men are not dying of Aids, that Jews weren't singled out by the Nazis and so on".

Tsk. A little defensive are we? Remind me to never get into an argument with those guys.
 
2002-01-22 09:31:56 AM  
I am outraged!! An Alaskan cream pie? The horror, the horror. What next? Key Lime pie? Is there no decency left in the world?
 
2002-01-22 09:32:46 AM  
As far as I am concerned, Greenpeace (which I used to support in my teens) lost all credibility with the Brent Spar. They were so wrong on too many scientific points.
 
2002-01-22 09:42:24 AM  
"Trashing the Planet" by Dixie Lee Ray is another good book for debunking a lot of extreme environmentalist propaganda.
 
2002-01-22 09:57:09 AM  
I hate that they teach all this environmentalist nonsense at schools, basically "polluting" kids minds with radical extremist bullshiat.

Earth Day my Ass.
 
2002-01-22 10:06:10 AM  
"BJORN LOMBORG, a former member of Greenpeace, has been branded a traitor by the international environmental movement. His crime? He debunked almost all of its claims about the earth's perilous state. Now he is a marked man. David Thomas meets him"
^^^^^ ^^^^^^
didn't he just die last week?
 
2002-01-22 10:09:06 AM  
his book was never peer-reviewed, it was published by the social science section of that publisher. it has since been thoroughly criticised for using selective and biased statistics, not actually discussing any of the issues involved with the experts (however misled they might be having only studied their field for maybe 20 years), also for only using statistics without looking at any of the underlying facts as that might have taken some study.
 
2002-01-22 10:15:41 AM  
indeed! I love watching the "ACK! THE SKY IS FALLING!" Chicken-Little greenie-weenie crowd squirm.
 
2002-01-22 10:43:19 AM  
Scientific American had a feature article about this guys book. They said that his reasearch was biased and deceptive. He would look through the literature and take the best case scenarios and then missapply simplified theories that any scientist could tell you was bull.

I'll look for the web link if I can.
 
2002-01-22 10:48:37 AM  
Ecounseller,
So what, Greenpeace has been missapplying science for some time already (Brent Spar) to their advantage, time they feel the other side of it for once.
 
2002-01-22 10:55:07 AM  
Sans_visage:

"it has since been thoroughly criticised for using selective and biased statistics"

You mean just like the environmentalist wackos use?
 
2002-01-22 10:57:08 AM  
Appie:
Lomborg isn't the first on either side to have bad science. But if you look at the legitimate scientific literature (peer review is a necissitiy for any scientist), you'll see his opinions don't stand up.

If you review the literature by actual scientists the vast perponderance of evidence supports that we have problems. If you look at the political literature you see a lot of statistics that might sound good in a speech but no respected scientist would submit to a rigorous peer review journal.
 
2002-01-22 10:57:41 AM  
What a scam. A great way to make money nowadays is to become a well known environmental activist, then defect and get paid off big time to write a book like this one.

It's great PR for the oil and chemical polluters to have someone "repent" and say how wrong and misled they were. Being an activist just doesn't pay well, but being an ex-activist does.
 
2002-01-22 11:02:57 AM  
It was very when Greenpeace founder David MacTaggart was killed in . . . gasp . . . a CAR WRECK last year. See, if he'd stuck by his principles and not been anywhere near a car, he'd still be alive.
 
2002-01-22 11:05:28 AM  
Bildo:
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -- Mark Twain
 
2002-01-22 11:10:15 AM  
WTF is this?!?!?!?!?

Who the fark cancelled my post?
 
2002-01-22 11:14:19 AM  
One consistant thing about "Enviromentalists" is they seem to know very little about the envioronment. The Earth has vast healing powers, and man's power is miniscule compared to Mother Nature. Greenpeace and other groups need to study nature more in depth, to gain the understanding of her they so blatantly lack.
 
2002-01-22 11:15:42 AM  
Christian Bale: Excellent point. I agree.
 
2002-01-22 11:18:02 AM  
Ecounseller,
Frankly, I don't give a damn wether he is right or not, the fact that he disagrees with Greenpeace gives him an advantage with me. I have had it with Greenpeace and their missappliance of 'science' and statistics (see also the post by Merltech quoting Mark Twain).
 
2002-01-22 11:20:48 AM  
To all:
I am environmentally conscious, but I have had it with environmental fundamentalists (just like all other fundies) for the simple reason that they only apply logic and science when it fits them. If it doesn't, the science is biased or faulty or whatever, but not right.
 
2002-01-22 11:21:09 AM  
Lomborg's essential thesis is not anti-environmental at all. He doesn't want to pillage the planet. He simply argues that environmental protection should be based on rational analysis and sensible risk-assessment rather than scare-mongering and ideology.

THUMP!

(Skwidd faints in shock upon finding a greenie he can agree with.)
 
2002-01-22 11:21:28 AM  
Oooops


<:/end rant>
 
2002-01-22 11:33:04 AM  
Greenies are almost as bad as JWs and they sure aren't as fun to mess with.
 
2002-01-22 11:35:22 AM  
If you like the guy simply because he's run awry of Greenpeace, then you're acting as reactionary as the eco psychos.

You guys should check out the Jan. edition of Scientific American. This guy is a statistician, not a scientist. If you are interested, the article is entitled, "Misleading Math about the Earth", in which a number of legitimate scientists skewer his "facts".

I'd link it, but it doesn't appear to be available online.

"The book The Skeptical Environmentalist uses statistics to dismiss warnings about peril for the planet. But the science suggests that it's the author who is out of touch with the facts."
 
2002-01-22 11:39:55 AM  
I'm telling you, the Greenpeace jihad is coming.
France doesn't surrender. BOOM!
 
2002-01-22 12:01:58 PM  
SLAYERSWINE, are they still having that BBQ? I had heard that it was cancelled due to too much carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen emissions from the open-pit fire.
 
2002-01-22 12:13:28 PM  
this is just another example of "When Extreme Liberalism attacks". Most Liberals don't have a farking clue about the facts, yet they can throw bullshiyat out and their chronic groupies believe everything they say. Groups like PETA and WHO are just some fine examples. They are setup to promote their agenda regardless how true the facts are. These groups even have worse ones than them, like the Femme Nazis etc, who take "liberalism" to a whole "leftist" political correctness level.. It sad cause most times you can't have a decent conversation with such people because they don't care about listening, but rather they want you to listen and they love hearing themselves talk.
 
2002-01-22 12:17:47 PM  
This is just telling us what we already know, and have known for years, that they're full of BS, starting with the ozone layer.
 
2002-01-22 12:19:21 PM  
How about the recent finding that the ice layer is actually getting thicker insead of melting?

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/18/science/18ICE.html

Looks like it's time to add that supercharger to my gas guzzling truck. Gotta do my part to help the scare-monger's lies come true. ;)
 
2002-01-22 12:25:52 PM  
I'm a environmentalists worst nightmare..
I work at a pulp-mill, own a SUV, I smoke, own an ATV, 2 Skidoos, don't recycle and love to eat meat. No agenda-political group will tell me what's right and wrong.....screw em.
 
2002-01-22 12:36:10 PM  
I had a Science teacher in HS around '92 tell me that we would run alumminum by 1999. It's 2002 and I'm still drinking Pepsi.
 
2002-01-22 01:43:12 PM  
when are people going to realize that greenpieceofshiat and most environmental organizations like it are not interested in "healing the earth", they are anti-capitalist's who despise business, free trade and human progress. if the earth were to become "pollution free" they would no longer have jobs, causes or issues to cry about (and there would be exactly zero human beings left on earth, which means they would be dead). do they want a cleaner environment? of course, but at what extent? no, it's not the environment as their motive, but the annihilation of capitalism and individual freedom - i.e. the human mind.
 
2002-01-22 02:32:23 PM  
Farting cows are killing the planet.
 
2002-01-22 02:53:08 PM  
When are people going to realize that they shouldn't make claims about things they don't understand?
My partner and many of our friends canvas for Greenpeace, and the organization then spends that money primarily on lobbying and scientific research. Greenpeace is a peaceful and pragmatic organization that works politically to make positive changes in this world(for you but more for your grandkids) and put the brakes on rampant destruction of the environment.
If you want to know more, there is plenty of info here:
http://www.greenpeace.org/

If you are happily entrenched in your dogmatic and reactionary hatred of a group that you clearly don't know all that much about, whatever, flame away.
 
2002-01-22 02:54:14 PM  
Christ! Not even the French surrendered to Greenpeace.

http://www.aucklandcitypolice.govt.nz/History/warrior.htm
 
2002-01-22 03:06:45 PM  
"With a name like Lord Melchitt they really should have suused out where he would end up."

WTF does this have to do with the price of rice in China?
 
2002-01-22 03:09:52 PM  
Fuzzymonkey - "When are people going to realize that they shouldn't make claims about things they don't understand?"

Probably when arrogant, demogogic faith junkies finally shut up.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
2002-01-22 03:17:59 PM  
FuzzyMonkey--

Elitist New York liberal lesbian Greenpeace volunteer?

LIVE THE CLICHE!
 
2002-01-22 03:23:06 PM  
Has anybody in this discussion actually read Lomborg's book? It's pretty pathetic... He believes that air quality in places like London and New York City has not improved because of national-level clean air legislation but because polluters (which is almost everyone when you look at it) stopped polluting out of the goodness of their hearts.

It's wretched science at best; a review in the journal Science last month was very good at pointing the book's shortcomings better than I can here. This is not about elitist lesbian yabba yabba or whatever stupid prejudice you have, the guy's book just downhome sucks. Thank you.

Boo Radley, Saraland, Alabama
 
2002-01-22 03:24:11 PM  
Scrotar- I began that way because of the previous post by Mawam who clearly had no idea what Greenpeace is about.

Benjamin- Awe! Your assumptions are so cute. I won't disuade you since the only thing I might find insulting in there is elitist and I will just consider the source.
 
2002-01-22 03:27:00 PM  
Booradley - I hadn't, and thanks.
 
2002-01-22 03:51:06 PM  
Good Cato article that slams Scientific American and the like: http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-17-02.html
This is a great book; just finished it last week. Very convincing, very comprehensive. Touches maybe not all the bases, but most of them.
Facts are stubborn things, you greenies. And sorry, "damned lies and statistics" is not a very convincing counter-argument anymore. I'm sick of hearing that from you leftist-wackos every time you come across SOLID DATA that contradicts your shallow ideologies.
 
2002-01-22 04:02:05 PM  
stinkbug: "farting cows" - hilarious!!

fuzzymonkey: thanks for the public service announcement, but a) greenpeace is far from peaceful (read the article and tell me if demonizing someone like that is peaceful); and b)"Greenpeace is a peaceful and pragmatic organization that works politically to make positive changes in this world(for you but more for your grandkids) and put the brakes on rampant destruction of the environment." positive changes according to who? you? forcing businesses to cut jobs, halt research, pay more taxes, and abide by ludicris "endangered species" laws based on biased, fear-mongering junk science (among other things) are not only not positive changes but are anti-human, anti-freedom, socialistic and extremely scary. rampant destruction of the environment? that is such a wishy-washy, touchy-feely, meaningless statement based on nothing but emotion.

and finally, scrotar: "Probably when arrogant, demogogic faith junkies finally shut up." i can't help but laugh at this moronic statement. all people who disagree with you are arrogant, faith junkies? does that make you a self-loathing anarchist? who's being demogogic? DUMBASS ALERT, DUMBASS ALERT!!!
 
zkm
2002-01-22 05:12:38 PM  
Look how violent eco-weenies become when you prove that the self-righteous bullshiat they sling to make themselves feel important is, like the REAL scientific community has been saying all along, is utter crap.

"But that's just the opinion of a crypto-facist media/corporate/government controlled drone/patriot robot. Because if I don't agree with your ideals I'm EVIL."
 
2002-01-22 06:16:53 PM  
My kids are smarter than you.

They know pollution is why they have to throw the fish back after they catch it.

They know pollution is why they can't swim in the river behind our house any more.

In their short lives they've witnessed the paving of massive parts of our county. The resulting thermal image gets worse every year. Now our average temperatures are approaching the average for downtown Atlanta, more than 70 miles away.

How happy I am for your denial. Stay smug and unaffected by pollution, GM, the oil companies, developers, and consumerism. Stay happily untouched by CNN and the marketing of violence such as 9/11, Al Jazeer and the glorification of that violence, the media manufacturing of demand for violence, military goods, and consumer goods.

The people killed in the WTC died for Exxon and Amoco -- those are the companies who sell the Arab oil that pollutes our air and funds Al Qaeda. Patriots. Go Patriots. War is just a football game. Have fun and watch it on TV. Preserve your way of life at all costs.
 
2002-01-22 07:15:33 PM  
Control: my how poetic and utterly laughable/useless that post was. while i could waste my time making you look like a fool by forcing ruthless logic on you, i will instead just thank you for making me giggle and giving new meaning to the phrase - "hopless whiner". crybabies - solutions = government control. if your dreams ever do come true, have fun in your b.f. skinner utopia where everything is vanilla, thought is discouraged and opinion is outlawed. look ma, no roads!!
 
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