I for one do not want people who believe in God dead. Well, not any more than I'd want anyone else dead. I mean, not for that reason per se...

prowler8

Well, don't get too excitied over it. Remember, lots of it was violently stolen by the church.

I'm failing to see the difference here...

great headline!

Yellow Number Five

[Oh, so death is not wished upon those who believe in God by the majority in this forum?]

What are you smoking? You're a fool if you believe that.

Okay, saying they all wish death on us may be a bit extreme. The disdain for the beliefs of those who believe in God is readily apparent. It just irritates me how a thread about worthless child molestors turns into an indictment of all people who love God.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Hi. Welcome to fark. Tangents, interruptions and insults are not just tolerated, but kind of the raison d'etre around here. Get used to it.

EmilyK hi. Good use of the bold tag. Everyday is a learning day.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Not all people who love god, but rather the people who pretend to, while hiding behind the protection of churches and lying through their teeth. Also, to a lesser extent, the people who support them.

I forget what eight was for

Heh hee! I can still TRY to have a civilized conversation ;)

The Catholic Church is a fine religion, with good moral intentions, good teachings, and millions of people who do wonders for this world.

The leadership of the Catholic Church is disgracefull. Ya not all are bad apples (Harry Flynn here in St Paul, so far has done a good job. No major scandals, etc). But to those who turned a blind eye or paid off to shut up, defnantly living up to those vows you took when you were ordained, aren't ya. Also, off topic, to those in the heirachy who refuse to think outside your 15th century box; if the sex scandals in the church doesn't destroy it, refusing to realized that God doesn't care about women priests or married clergy and such will.

// Still a dedicated Catholic, but pissed at those who run the show.

pilots13

The Catholic Church is a fine religion, with good moral intentions, good teachings, and millions of people who do wonders for this world.


No. As long as they oppose stem cell research, for example (there are many other ways they hurt society, too) the Catholic Church is still scum.

aw shucks I forget what eight was for hee hee

Tangents, interruptions and insults are not just tolerated, but kind of the raison d'etre around here

for example when a thread goes from talking about a nutjob judge to ten hours later talking about beer, with a dash of Catharine Edwards thrown in for good measure..

(remember I learned italics too)

Pete and RePeat..

2004-07-08 12:16:24 PM Smookyfufu

2004-07-08 12:14:15 PM MacG

Atheists tend to be stuck in the high school thought of "God is dead and is the source of my problems and i'm gonna rebel against the establishment yeah yeah yeah ROCK ON" type of thought... They either become agnostics (when they've matured) or actually join some sort of faith.

I've yet to meet a 40 year old atheist.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair was in her 70's when she died, and an atheist all the way.

Breaks over, going back to work...nice to see you again Yellow Number Five! :)

Madalyn Murray O'Hair was in her 70's when she died, and an atheist all the way.

did they ever find her? should that read: Madalyn Murray O'Hair was in her 70's when she "died," and an atheist all the way.

unless they did find her then forget it.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr

You too, and hey guys, Dr.H is an OK guy, he's one of the few Farkers on my short list of nice, open-minded, tolerant Christians.

Bankrupcy? All they need to do is open up the "Buddy Jesus" marketing and the cash would start rolling in

I submitted this with a headline that I, at least, think was funnier: “Bible Trivia: what chapter absolves diocese from fiscal responsibility for shielding pedophile priests? Answer: Chapter 11 (okay, not a Bible chapter, but it does begin with the same letter).”

hey mr gumbo pants fark off why do you th ink that asians look differant. Or africans or europeans. Or people that live above the arctic circle ists because we adapt to our enviornement creating many differant species all a part of one race. Get your words right asshole

blhack evolution is wrong. Thats whats wrong with people today is that they don't understand that. God is punishing africa with aids and you know it. No this isn't lamebait. I'm serious. one o the only people that actually understnads the way the world works let out there.

/they key between d and g doesn't work.

Blhack

[because we adapt to our enviornement creating many differant species all a part of one race. Get your words right asshole]

Uh, take your own advice. What kind of fcuktard thinks there are many different species of humans? Oh yeah, you.

[2004-07-08 02:55:56 PM tbyte


pilots13

The Catholic Church is a fine religion, with good moral intentions, good teachings, and millions of people who do wonders for this world.


No. As long as they oppose stem cell research, for example (there are many other ways they hurt society, too) the Catholic Church is still scum. ]

--------------------------

You are ignorant. Stem cell research is a relevant moral/ethical issue, on which the Catholic Church is entitled voice its position. There is hardly a simple answer to that complicated question, and the Church is hardly alone in its opposition to the research. There is so much that Church does that helps society and those who have no one else to voice their pleas for decent living standards.

Catholic charities feed millions, clothe millions and shelter millions.

Parishes in third world countries are often the only hope for impoverished people, the only institutions that are looking out for the interests of the disenfranchised. Countless Catholic Priests have died advocating equality and justice for the have nots.

Not that you ever would, but one day, take a trip to Brazil, or Columbia, or India, or Mexico, or any one of the impoverished African nations and ask the commoners how they feel about these 'scum'. You would be floored by what injustices the Priests and the Church as a whole fight against daily in these parts of the world.

Instead of spouting ill-informed inflammatory rhetoric, try educating yourself to the realities faced by many in underdevolped countries of the world.

many differant species all a part of one race. Get your words right asshole

(shaking my head) There are so many things wrong with this I just don't even know where to start...here goes:
At the risk of repeating myself, at a genetic level race does not exist. It is only a social construct. All human beings are one species, as evidenced by the fact that we can all interbreed. Within the species H. sapiens humans have decided that there are races. Which there are not.

i.e., "Get your words right asshole"

Weaver95: "Maybe someone will stop and think before they donate to the loonies."

I keep wishing that everyday, in hopes that the "good" Catholics will stop contributing their hard-earned cash to the Vatican.

Blhack's suggested shopping list:

1. valium
2. biology textbook
3. history of epidemics book
4. modern day airline itinerary (you know, just to point out that Africa isn't a big ghetto we can just wall off)
5. more valium
6. beer (just because it should be on everyone's list, and he'll need one after all that paradigm-shifting book learnin' he's got coming)

That what the Catholic Church gets for ordaining homos. Broke their own damn rules.

2004-07-08 03:16:38 PM woman_in_red_dress

evolution is wrong

this biology major is about to give up on these people...help please!?!

Blhack
hey mr gumbo pants fark off why do you th ink that asians look differant. Or africans or europeans. Or people that live above the arctic circle ists because we adapt to our enviornement creating many differant species all a part of one race. Get your words right asshole

I guess Glhack's not going to Harvard this fall is he?

I look at it this way. The Catholic church is run by the Pope, from Vatican city. Vatican city is a sovereign nation in itself. That makes 'employees' (priests and the like) agents of a foreign nation.
Diplomats who commit crimes, even those with 'diplomatic immunity', can be, and are, deported and declared 'persona non grata' to deny them re- entry.
Plus, we all know that the Vatican has an intelligence service, as well as internal security. These services could be used to effect an arrest on those 'agents' causing a problem. These offenses are, after all, violatioms of church law.

/Get in the car, Father. The Pope wants to 'talk' to you.

EmilyK

[this biology major is about to give up on these people...help please!?!]

Gladly, I post this often and have never yet been given an adequate answer by anti-evolutionists:

Endogenous retroviruses are a great example of molecular sequence evidence for universal common descent. Endogenous retroviruses are molecular remnants of a past parasitic viral infection. Occasionally, copies of a retrovirus genome are found in its host's genome, and these retroviral gene copies are called endogenous retroviral sequences. Retroviruses, like AIDS, make a DNA copy of their own viral genome and insert it into their host's genome. If this happens to a germ line cell (i.e. the sperm or egg cells) the retroviral DNA will be inherited by descendants of the host. Again, this process is rare and fairly random, so finding retrogenes in identical chromosomal positions of two different species indicates common ancestry.

There are at least seven different known instances of common retrogene insertions between chimps and humans, indicating common ancestry. I'll say it again, the same insertion occurs at the same DNA marker in two totally different species at a rate that is far far greater than chance. I was actually involved in some of the sequencing of chimp DNA that found these insertions back in college.

Felines provide another example. The standard phylogenetic tree has small cats diverging later than large cats. The small cats (e.g. the jungle cat, European wildcat, African wildcat, blackfooted cat, and domestic cat) share a specific retroviral gene insertion. In contrast, all other carnivores which have been tested lack this retrogene.

Explain that please. What other explaination could there be other than macro evolution? Did God decide to mess with us by tinkering with the DNA of several species, and if so, why the hell would he do that?

I'm not saying these examples PROVE the theory of evolution, but seriously, do you have a better explaination?

red dress

You are ucking ignorant o the way the world works. I by chance you're not just lamebaiting and trolling, I commend you on your commitment to your belie in ancient mythology. But I'm wondering what exactly Arica did to deserve this punishment.

I hope I covered this one here: 2004-07-08 03:19:02 PM EmilyK

but if you can handle this one:
2004-07-08 03:16:38 PM woman_in_red_dress

blhack evolution is wrong. Thats whats wrong with people today is that they don't understand that. God is punishing africa with aids and you know it. No this isn't lamebait. I'm serious. one o the only people that actually understnads the way the world works let out there.

I would greatly appreciate it.
/understands the way the real world works quite well thank you--and thank SCIENCE

Blhack,

Not to sound like an asshole, but. Aids in africa is kindof part of the evolution of their race

Swing and a miss on that one, asshat.

/i smell a troll...or an moran. not sure which.

Yellow Number Five thank you that was very clear and persuasive. Although the targets probably won't be able to follow it.
and
I forget what eight was for brilliant comedy, spot-on impression

Thanks to both of you for keeping my from ripping out my lovely hair over this ignorance.

er, keeping me is obviously what I meant there

2004-07-08 03:28:01 PM egriffin
i smell a troll...or an moran. not sure which

I think it's quite possible to be BOTH, don't you?

EmilyK

Not a problem, keep up the good fight.


BTW - If any of the "targets" of my post don't understand the example I was giving, I'm more than happy to explain it.

Though this thread seems to have almost died out (and decended into petty bickering between pro and anti-evolution forces), it might be useful for people to know that the incidences of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, while horrible, are likely on par with the incidence of abuse through the same time period in the YMCA, the Boy Scouts, and public schools.

There's nothing 'special' about the Catholic Church that makes its ministers more prone to abuse. One could argue that, given the priests have additional contributing factors compared to leaders in other organizations (required celibacy being the most obvious), the question people should be asking is "why aren't there more incidences of abuse than in other orginizations?"

Furthermore, given the American Catholic Bishops' changes in policy, it's quite likely that the Catholic Church in the United States is now the most safe institution in the U.S. with which to entrust your little boys and girls.

HeartBurnKid

The entire Catholic Church has been an enabler for this behavior, and you make the problem worse by denying it exists.
But the institution of Catholicism is corrupt, and denying that doesn't do anybody any favors.

Woah! Easy with that big brush, my friend!

I never said the problem didn't exist. Nor has ANY Catholic I know.

Yes, there was molestation. Yes, it's awful and that handful of priests should be lynched.

NO, there is no proof for your contention that "the institution of Catholicism is corrupt". Come on man. That's an entirely gratuitous assertion and you know it. Please be fair.

EmilyK,

I think it's quite possible to be BOTH, don't you?

Possible? Probable's more like it. But in my ever-persistent hope for mankind, I try to give the benefit of the doubt.

/I love mankind. It's people I don't like.
/Never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.

after last night's tangle w/ RightWingDrumstick I am little over debate with morans/trolls today.

Yellow Number Five I took the quiz in your profile and I came up atheist. I'm not really though. oh well

pastorsteve

Personally my problem with the Catholic Church in this situation is not that a few of the clergy went around touching little boys (horrible as that is), my gripe is that the Church CONSPIRED to cover that abuse up by transfering offenders to other parishes and offering bribes to the victims families to keep quiet.

PS - I don't think what I was doing was petty bickering about evolution, personally I think I speak pretty intelligently and persausively on the topic.

HeartBurnKid thanks I really wasn't sure

crawlspace: gratuitous assertion you don't by any chance know Tony Klein of Winchester, VA, do you?

2004-07-08 03:44:32 PM crawlspace

Woah! Easy with that big brush, my friend!

I never said the problem didn't exist. Nor has ANY Catholic I know.

Yes, there was molestation. Yes, it's awful and that handful of priests should be lynched.

NO, there is no proof for your contention that "the institution of Catholicism is corrupt". Come on man. That's an entirely gratuitous assertion and you know it. Please be fair.

Well, they did go to great lengths to cover up for this "handful of priest that (should) be lynched", and they did it expressly to keep their image clean with little or no regard for the people these predators hurt. If that doesn't SCREAM "corrupt", I don't know what does.

Whoops... should read "handful of priests (that) should be lynched", not "handful of priests that (should) be lynched".

Sorry.

pastorsteve

Furthermore, given the American Catholic Bishops' changes in policy, it's quite likely that the Catholic Church in the United States is now the most safe institution in the U.S. with which to entrust your little boys and girls.

Could you elaborate on the changes in the USCCB's policies that makes it the safest institution in the US for children?

pastorsteve

"it might be useful for people to know that the incidences of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, while horrible, are likely on par with the incidence of abuse through the same time period in the YMCA, the Boy Scouts, and public schools."

You're going to have to do better than "likely". Unless you can provide credible sources for your assertion, it's just
your opinion.

"There's nothing 'special' about the Catholic Church that makes its ministers more prone to abuse...."

You can't claim that, unless you have hard data that supports the claim.

"Furthermore, given the American Catholic Bishops' changes in policy, it's quite likely that the Catholic Church in the United States is now the most safe institution in the U.S. with which to entrust your little boys and girls."

There ya go again with the "likely" stuff.

---

Regardless of ANY of the above, the fact remains that the Catholic Church was involved in a conspiracy to shuffle the
kiddie diddlers off to other dioceses' when trouble brewed.

For that alone, the RCC hierarchy deserves severe retribution for their part. The pain needs to be felt
all the way up the food chain, not just by the molesters.

As someone who was raised Catholic and had his kid receive communion and confirmation, I resolved to not support the
church in any way. Perhaps I'll find my way back when the leaders of the church are purged, but I doubt it.

And don't even get me started on the Pope. It would only take a wave of his pope wand and serious ass kicking and house cleaning would take place inside the RCC. But what we
get are lukewarm responses. Yeah, I know he's like 200 years old and in poor health, so I can only hope that the next pope will kick come cardinal ass.

I don't think what I was doing was petty bickering about evolution, personally I think I speak pretty intelligently and persausively on the topic.

You do, Yellow Number Five , and it is not a petty topic either. That in this day and age there is anyone who doesn't "believe" in evolution baffles me. It is a fact, as reasonably as anything can be in science, but not "believing" in it is akin to not believing in gravity, or electricity.
/deep breaths, calm blue ocean...