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(Western Daily Press)   Crop circle either depicts giant Tesla coil, or was created by aliens revelling in England's soccer misery, claim experts   (westpress.co.uk) divider line 187
    More: Unlikely  
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16388 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2004 at 5:04 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-06-26 06:47:44 PM  
Sigh. Again, I never said it was an alien conspiracy. Christ, this is useless. This whole thing has been about two guys with a board and string and some copycats.

All this shiat is absolutely staring you in the face.
 
2004-06-26 06:48:19 PM  
Ok, i'm digging through the third link (http://www.controversial-science.com/current/cc-hypothesis-comparison.htm) and it might take a while but there's already suspect stuff in it.
 
2004-06-26 06:52:06 PM  
Let's make this easy, okay:

All of the stuff about the unbroken stalks, undamaged seed caps, interwoven stalks, higher radiation levels, witnesses watching them being formed in broad daylight, no tracks, advanced, unknown geometry, sheer logistical problems...

All of that was made up? All of it? Look, if you're convinced all of that was made up, regardless of the reference, then this is kind of a pointless debate. Because it seems to me you're nitpicking single points from single sources as proving the entire issue as illegitimate. No one has said anything to explain any of the above other than, well, this reference isn't quite legitimate enough. Fine folks, a few Englishmen with a board and string.

I still stand by my claim that I and my friends are behind every UFO sighting in history.
 
2004-06-26 06:53:01 PM  
Oh, and as to the first refrence, it seemed all the guy did was check eulicid, completly ignoring all the work on geometry thats been done since and none of that looked particularly impressive.

And for the fourth anyone who stoops to citing art bell it more than reaching.
 
2004-06-26 06:54:21 PM  
I'd hit it.
 
2004-06-26 06:55:59 PM  
You know, I saw that crop circle pic and had a flashback to 'The Prisoner' series. Dunno why, just did.

Ah! I'm in The Village! ARGH!
 
2004-06-26 06:58:51 PM  
I'm sorry, but I don't thing that design looks anything like a Tesla coil. Not anymore than it looks like a peanut butter sandwich.
 
2004-06-26 07:01:17 PM  
Buckshot: Ok, now I've got a question. How often has all this 'high radiation/bent wheat/random stuff' happened at any circle other than the very plain? I think I might buy that plasma discharges can make maybe one or two circles a year, but obviously the more complex have to have been made by man (or giant space monsters from omicron persei 9). I find it hard to believe humans can't be making nearly all of these; we're a technical enough species to solve any logistic problems. Unless you're claiming plasma made this:
(made by a group of hoaxers in England by request)
 
2004-06-26 07:04:47 PM  
Buckshot:

All of the stuff about the unbroken stalks, undamaged seed caps, interwoven stalks

Funny how those kinds of things are used by so called "cerealogists" to certify a circle as genuine, only to have the pranksters show up the next day to admit they did it.

higher radiation levels

...But never any details. Are these measurements ever made by people qualified to take and interpret the readings? All we ever see is Egon finding anomolous PKE readings. If it can be measured it can be studied, but whoops! No studies!

witnesses watching them being formed in broad daylight

Great, show us the pics and videos. What? They don't have any? Just like the missing evidence for UFOs, bigfoot, and pixies dancing in the forest...

no tracks

Why does this keep coming up? It's not terribly difficult to walk through a farm field without leaving obvious tracks. Especially when the searchers are just a bunch of new age hippies who show up and go "woah man! no tracks! pass the bowl!".

advanced, unknown geometry

Didn't we just go over that? How about backing this up with some evidence that isn't apparent with high school geometry, or from a qualified mathematician?

sheer logistical problems...

Still stuck on the "two guys with a board and some sting" thing again?
 
2004-06-26 07:05:51 PM  
bob the gopher

I'd hit it.

This, ladies and gents, is why I love Fark. :-)
 
2004-06-26 07:06:55 PM  
Here's another good one:

Damn you Plasma! You and your loud music!
 
2004-06-26 07:07:01 PM  
Outlaw_Rudy,

I'm not a part of the plasma faction. I always thought that was wrong, because the circles show intelligence.

And no, Sandelaphon, he referenced Art Bell, what, once? And that first reference he checked not just original Euclid thoughts or that he ignored modern texts at all. The whole point was that he examined many modern texts and found nothing at all.
 
2004-06-26 07:07:50 PM  

Space Jews, obviously.
 
2004-06-26 07:08:42 PM  
"Hold my Overthruster for me..."
 
2004-06-26 07:08:42 PM  
Fnord,

Doesnt' it seem ludicrous to you that anyone can appear the morning after any cirlce, say they did it, and have everyone accept it as fact?

I refer you to my claim that I and my friends are responsible for all UFO sightings throughout history. If any of them pop up in the news, you know it was me now. My bad, I'm just that good.
 
2004-06-26 07:09:50 PM  
What are you saying is making them then, Buckshot? You've said it's not aliens, plasma, or humans. Not too many choices left, save bigfoot & the yeti teaming up.
 
2004-06-26 07:10:09 PM  
"Space Jews" is kinda funny, actually.
 
2004-06-26 07:10:41 PM  
[buckshot]

Yeah! And all you nay-sayers... How about those castles that folks are always finding at the beach?

Are you saying that they're NOT proof of a tiny sea-faring race living at the edges of our civilization?

Have you not EYES, man?!?

These castles made of sand-crystals are detailed in every way, I say. Some of them, I hear - actually use broken shells to adorn the battlements of these mysterious miniature dwellings.

What more proof do you need?


/builds mine in the sky
 
2004-06-26 07:11:06 PM  
Buckshot

You convinced me brother! Earth is an alien Etch-A-Sketch!
 
2004-06-26 07:13:10 PM  
I know! Aliens flew across vast regions of space to come to earth and bend wheat. Let us pray!
 
2004-06-26 07:13:13 PM  
I did not say it wasn't humans.

What I said was, it wasn't the simple board and string Englishmen and a few copycats. All they did was say, oh, that was us, make some lame circles, and the subject was somehow closed.

I don't know what the cause of the unexplainable ones is. But having a couple of guys claim responsibility now and then for a circle, and have that be the end of it, is ludicrous. It's like UFO sightings. Most, the vast majority, are hoaxes. They can be explained. A few can't be. That is the mystery.
 
2004-06-26 07:14:21 PM  
ACE_23,

Apples and oranges, my friend.
 
2004-06-26 07:14:30 PM  
I don't know why you even bother, Buckshot. Most people are entrenched in their beliefs, however erroneous they may be. You're not going to change any minds here.
 
2004-06-26 07:16:48 PM  
["Hold my Overthruster for me..."]

That movie was so unapreciated.
 
2004-06-26 07:16:48 PM  
Space Jews, obviously.

And their unclean arch enemies, Pigs in Space:

 
2004-06-26 07:18:48 PM  
Vanessa:

I don't know why you even bother, Buckshot. Most people are entrenched in their beliefs, however erroneous they may be. You're not going to change any minds here.

[Pot, kettle...]

I, for one, welcome our new crop circle overlords.
 
2004-06-26 07:21:28 PM  
I don't know why you even bother, Buckshot. Most people are entrenched in their beliefs, however erroneous they may be. You're not going to change any minds here.

Not completely true Vanessa . I participate in many Fark political debate. Once in a while my views are changed by good arguments.

Of course, you're facing two major obstacles in most cases...

First, on Fark, its important to try to be amusing while making your points.

Second, of course, is Weaver.
 
2004-06-26 07:21:30 PM  

width="398" height="803">

(note: Bent but unbroken :O)


From the site Dynamic_Lifter posted, the making of a crop circle for the history channel. It's not just a board and a couple guys man, humans always try to one up each other (especially two old british guys). Pretty soon we'll be using streamrollers to make them.
 
2004-06-26 07:24:48 PM  
I don't know why you even bother, Buckshot. Most people are entrenched in their beliefs, however erroneous they may be. You're not going to change any minds here.

[Pot, kettle...]

I, for one, welcome our new crop circle overlords.


As far as the pot, kettle comment...I didn't state any opinion on the subject matter, just a general truth.
 
2004-06-26 07:24:57 PM  

I, for one, welcome our new corporate crop circle overlords.
 
2004-06-26 07:27:10 PM  
Anyone else think Outlaw_Rudy is an alien?
 
2004-06-26 07:29:20 PM  
Just to add my .02, but Buckshot, you are also throwing in assumptions that these were made in a relatively short period of time. How do you know? What evidence was in that short article that said Farmer will had just been in that spot the night before and woke up the next morning to find the elaborate design. Maybe, just maybe, no one's been to that field for weeks. But bad reporters don't ask those kind of simple questions. I'm not arguing against you, just pointing out that you're just as likely to jump to conclusions as the people you are arguing with.
 
2004-06-26 07:31:20 PM  
[Second, of course, is Weaver.]

NOW what'd I do!?
 
2004-06-26 07:33:59 PM  
Weaver

Ah, I'm just kidding ya man...
 
2004-06-26 07:35:48 PM  
[Ah, I'm just kidding ya man...]

If you want to torture yourself, go check out what I did to pontechango on the dali llama thread.

That boy's got issues.
 
2004-06-26 07:36:02 PM  
Weaver95:

I've always thought that if Tesla and Turing had been in the same room at the same time some sort of implosion would have occured.

I'd put my money on a flaming, electrical discharge. :-)
 
2004-06-26 07:37:49 PM  
Buckshot link no 4 breakdown, only significant find was that your first ref. was pubishied in sciencenews, but most stuff wasn't online.
1- 404
2- by W.C. Levengood cant find on journal website
3- by W.C. Levengood all i could find was a short summary, no evidence
summary "We report the unusual discovery of a natural iron "glaze" composed of fused particles of meteoritic origin, concentrated entirely within a crop formation in England, appearing shortly after the intense Perseid meteor shower in August, 1993. Physical and chemical characteristics as well as spatial distributions indicated reheating to a semi-molten state at the time of crop impact, suggesting involvement with an ion plasma vortex, a mechanism previously considered the chief candidate in scientific investigations of crop formations. Abnormalities in seedling growth was also consistent with the unusual responses of seeds taken from numerous crop formations."
from main page:"Our Society was founded in 1982 by a committee of fourteen scientists and scholars who had identified the need for a new type of scientific organization, one that would foster the study of all questions that are amenable to scientific investigation without restriction. Despite the enormous advances in science in the last century, there are important areas that remain almost unexplored. Some are of great public interest and touch deep philosophical questions. Is the mind a machine or an entity that is in some sense independent of the body? Is there credible evidence that intelligent life exists on other planets near other stars in our galaxy, or that our solar system has ever been visited by extraterrestrial beings? Some areas have technological potentials that could be of great benefit to mankind: Do some human beings have the capability of locating water and other life-giving resources? Are there sources of energy available to mankind other than sunlight, fossil fuels, and nuclear energy?"

4- by W.C. Levengood "Instability Effects in Vortex Rings produced with Liquids," Nature 181 (1958)

couldn't find online

5-A Study Conducted by the North American Institute for Crop Circle Research,"

but i couldn't find it online

6- G. S. Hawkins, "Crop Circles: Theorems in Wheat Fields," Science News 150, no. 12 (October 1996):

see your first refrence

7- J.K.E. Ortega "Governing Equations for Plant Cell Growth," Physiologia Plantarum

not online

8- W.C. Levengood, "Dispersion of Energies in Worldwide Crop Formations" (Opinions and Comments), Physiologica Plantarum

not online

9-Jinks, David M., The Monkey and the Tetrahedron, (Seattle: Glass Moon Press, 1999)
Amazon.co.uk Review
Once you get past the excessive ranting about Carl Sagan, you will find a crackerjack compendium of proved, but generally ignored, scientific findings and some compelling theories that tie them all together. While David Jinks's masters degree is in business rather than physics, he goes about compiling information and documenting his contentions with the fury of an accountant searching for misappropriated funds--be glad he's not an auditor for the Inland Revenue. Fans of conspiracy theory will revel in the author's brutally blunt questions and hyper-logical deductions concerning transparent distortions perpetrated by the federal government and allied organisations. Did the 1993 Mars Observer mission really get lost? Does cold fusion overthrow the First Law of Thermodynamics (and corporate interests) creating more energy than it consumes? Could crop circles be related to the weakening magnetic field of the Earth as opposed to pranksters? Why do highly respected American astronauts believe in UFOs? Read The Monkey and The Tetrahedron and consider the ramifications of these and other important questions for yourself. --P. Randall Cohan

publisher doesn't have website and the guy has his masters degree in business? pandering to tinfoil hat croud?

10- art bell

art bell

11- eorge Wingfield, "Towards an understanding of the nature of the circles," in Alick Bartholomew, ed., Crop Circles: Harbingers of World Change (Lower Lake, CA: Atrium Publishers Group, 1992), 25-6.

publisher has no website, couldn't find anything.

12- http://www.bltresearch.com/
PURPOSE: The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle research - the discovery, scientific documentation and evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or energy system) responsible for creating them and to determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature and source of these energies. Secondly, our intent is to publish these research results in peer-reviewed scientific journals and to disseminate this information to the general public through lectures, mainstream articles and the internet.

and the only link to an estabished peer-reviewed journal is a refrence to the first refrence you made.

13- Lucy Pringle database of physical effects resulting from crop circle exposure, based on 434 crop circle witness reports.

did a short search and didn't see anything in particular...

14-Michael Chorost, "The Summer 1991 Crop Circles: The Data Emerges," Fund for UFO Research, 1991; available from FUFOR, P.O. Box 277, Mt. Rainier, MD 20712.

found refrences to it, but nothing about it online

15- Andrews, Colin, America Online Sightings interview, 1995

america online
 
2004-06-26 07:38:01 PM  
Buckshot is proving victorious!
 
Ral
2004-06-26 07:39:08 PM  
I have looked at a large number of photographs of crop circles, and some of them are extremely elaborate and precise.

Although humans are, of course, capable of making these designs, I question whether it is possible for people to do so undetected. Persumably no one has ever caught these crop circle makers in the act, or it would be considerably less of a mystery.

Occam's Razor, actually, suggests another explanation because the "people are doing it stealthily in the middle of the night" solutions is cumbersome and purposeless.

That leaves quite a lot of alternatives, most of which do not involve space aliens. Think outside the box, people.
 
2004-06-26 07:42:05 PM  
Having experienced numerous instances - and in one case, a year in a particular house - of what many would term "supernatural experiences," I still know better than to mention it to people (except here as an Anon).

I recently was in the neighbourhood of the aforementioned house and happened to see the new owner. Out of curiousity, and stupidity, I stopped by and asked if he or his family had experienced any strange goings-on in the house. He asked me to elaborate and, predictably, his response was to ask if drugs were involved. Enough said.
 
2004-06-26 07:43:35 PM  
Ral who says they were never caught? and if its locals in rural areas its not all that hard to not get caught as there aren't that many people around.
 
2004-06-26 07:44:38 PM  
Ral: Remember, most farmers nowadays own a ton of land and wheat doesn't really have to be watered all that often. It's entirely likely that farmers can go several days without seeing a particular place in their fields (so crop circle makers don't really have to sneak in at night like ninjas).
 
2004-06-26 07:45:38 PM  
Fnord

I'd put my money on a flaming, electrical discharge. :-)


how flaming are we talking here? pink lesiure suit flaming?
 
2004-06-26 07:45:54 PM  
Much love for Tesla. Because of him, AC current is what makes vacuum tubes work. Why love vacuum tubes you say? Because a bunch of 6L6 tubes in parallel (especially mullards, or JJ/Tesla's if you don't want to pay NOS prices) pushed into saturation (when the electrons flowing off the cathode can't be handled in the plates fast enough) is the foundation of rock and roll. So indirectly, Tesla is why we have delicious tube-driven rock and roll. God bless you Tesla.
 
2004-06-26 07:47:12 PM  
::snicker::
 
2004-06-26 07:52:33 PM  
I recently was in the neighbourhood of the aforementioned house and happened to see the new owner. Out of curiousity, and stupidity, I stopped by and asked if he or his family had experienced any strange goings-on in the house. He asked me to elaborate and, predictably, his response was to ask if drugs were involved. Enough said.

Er... um... so... were drugs involved?

Just kidding... I think pretty much everyone has experienced some pretty freaky stuff...
 
2004-06-26 07:54:53 PM  


"Then I'll ram my ovum-depositor down your throat and lay my eggs in your chest...but I'm not an alien!"

/mst3k

Seriously, though. I'm not saying it's "two Englishmen with a stick", but I tend to lean towards the notion that humans are responsible for crop circles. It seems to be the best explaination.
 
2004-06-26 07:58:24 PM  
buckshot

"And no, Sandelaphon, he referenced Art Bell, what, once? And that first reference he checked not just original Euclid thoughts or that he ignored modern texts at all. The whole point was that he examined many modern texts and found nothing at all."


what i'm getting at here is that the only refrence in an apperantly respectable peer-reviewed journal is the mathamatical claim, which was published in 1996, long after some people with lots of mathematical training had probably been involed in the making of some of them.

and you don't refrence Art Bell if you want to be taken seriously unless you're writing a paper on how batshiat crazy he is.
 
2004-06-26 08:02:10 PM  
Best band ever.
 
2004-06-26 08:03:50 PM  
[Best band ever.]

Maybe. But I fail to see how Oingo Boingo relates to crop circles.
 
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