Unfortunately, when we had a crop circle near here, the 'scientist' who proclaimed it 'authentic' due to stem node molecture structure and radiation readings was more questionable than the circle! Especially when the kids who made it fessed up!

Cosmic_music, what in the hell is wrong with you?

The discussion was closed as in there's obviously more going on than two Englishmen with a board. You have the audacity to call me closed-minded?

As far as a more extended hoax, or some other phenomenon, I certainly don't have any final answers on the subject. But this viewpoint of it's a hoax, just because a couple of guys did a crop circle or two, is completely ludicrous.

Jesus Christ, I don't know what it is about crop-circles, but it seems to be the one phenomenon that everyone seems fanatical about ignoring as though it doesn't exist. God forbid someone attempts to discuss it rationally.

maybe on the planet the aliens come from this is the standard method of communication. and they're wondering "why the fark can't these dumb earthlings read our writing?"

Buckshot
I presented known evidence to the contrary, that it's not as simple as all that.... Obvious evidence.

links!?!?!?!oneuno111

Cosmic_Music

your right, thank you for remaining civil about what i got wrong also. i should have said they cant be explained because i dont know personally. however, if what Buckshot said originally is true (about radiation and the plants growing sideways and such) i thought that would just be a bit more difficult to explain. i never really said there was no rational explanation though, or at least i didnt mean to. what i meant was that with some extra events that occur with some circles, it makes those circles harder to explain than other ones.

but yes your right about word choice, however im not just going to accept that humans did them all because to me some still cant be explained.

I thought the starter coil in a car was a kind of tesla coil (which my understanding is just a big air core transformer w/ a 1:4 turn ratio tuned to a tank circuit)

i remember reading somewhere about using a car starter coil to make an emergency radio....but that was when I was young and didn't really understand it all

of course i could be completely wrong - as is the case occasionally

fisherman62: I'd hate to see their version of The Illiad.

Buckshot

Cosmic_music, what in the hell is wrong with you?

It's tough being this pretty.

As for your other points, you're own post answers them more eloquently that I can be bothered to. Advance a rational arguement without abuse and you may find people take you seriously.

And that's all she wrote.

Crop circles are created by acoustic eminations from large, heavy blimps.

Four Sticks and a Black Dog are used to form the circles, which result in a Stairway to Heaven to lead the human race into a new age of enlightenment with a Whole Lotta Love for everyone.

Buckshot
Jesus Christ, I don't know what it is about crop-circles, but it seems to be the one phenomenon that everyone seems fanatical about ignoring as though it doesn't exist. God forbid someone attempts to discuss it rationally.

you're not discussing it rationaly. You say "people couldn't have done this!", site no evidence and then call everyone close-minded and declare the "dissusion" over.

Exactly what flameingtoilet said.

If I said, it was aliens and you all are wrong and blah blah, then hell yes, slam me.

The ONLY thing we have said, in this entire thread, is that in some circles there has been unexplainable evidence to the contrary, which I am currently searching for links too as requested. It's more than two guys with a board.

That's it. If saying, evidence shows it must be more than two guys with a board makes me closed-minded, then, guilty as charged.

flameingtoilet
"however im not just going to accept that humans did them all because to me some still cant be explained."

Links!

Sandelaphon,

That is NOT what I said? Christ, did you read ANYTHING I wrote? I very clearly stated it could have been humans.

What I did say is that it could NOT have been the two English hicks with a board and string that claimed they were responsible for ALL CROP-CIRCLES.

I said it had to be more than that. That includes a larger network of humans. Much larger. I guess reading more than the one statement you disagree with is too much for you.

I think it's a double pole, double throw relay.

Buckshot ok, so it wasn't two english guys, but nobody said it was. I think the one i saw was 3 or 4 guys who said they did it with some frequency. You're going on like a conspiracy theorist and insinuating that it must have been aliens by saying you don't think they have all be explained to your satisfation and call people close-minded. Maybe you need to re-read what you wrote.

"The sheer number of circles all over the world that appear in given timespans debunks the "couple of guys with a board theory." All sorts of other evidence was presented. In real circles, the stalks are bent, almost melted over, but still fully alive and literally growing sideways. In the fake examples these guys made, they were broken. Additionally, the hoaxers took hours to make a simple circle, and it was imperfect. Compare this to the vast design arrays in real circles.
"

Reference 1:

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030628/mathtrek.asp

Dynamic_Lifter: Lots of cool pictures on that site. I particularly liked this one:

Looks like aliens like ACSII pictures.

From above:

"Remarkably, Hawkins could find none of these theorems in the works of Euclid, the ancient Greek geometer who had established the basic techniques and rules for what is known as Euclidean geometry. Hawkins was also surprised at his failure to find the crop-circle theorems in any of the mathematics textbooks and references, ancient and modern, that he consulted."

errr...make that ascii.

/me turns in his geek membership

Buckshot

"What I did say is that it could NOT have been the two English hicks with a board and string that claimed they were responsible for ALL CROP-CIRCLES.

I said it had to be more than that. That includes a larger network of humans. Much larger."

I never knew they claimed to be respoonsible for all of them, I agree that would be impossible, but the whole tin-foil conspiracy is unwarrented. After the first came out others just did incresingly complex copycat schemes. The basic method isn't that hard to work out, so there didn't really need to be a "network" or any communication.

Fact - Tesla was was and still is by many, to be the worlds greatest master of wireless energy transmission

Fact - Tesla essentially invented the Torpedo

Fact - Some of Tesla's work is still classified top secret by the US Government

Fact - A significant amount of Tesla's work still can not be duplicated, even though it was observed, and documented.

Fact - Tesla invented a turbine motor that is so efficient that we are just starting to come up with materials that are strong enough to enable us to build it so it will run without tearing itself apart.

Fact - Edison invented the Electric Chair as a demonstration to prove to the world that AC current as invented by Tesla was too dangerous to use, so he could monopolize the industry with less efficient DC, but make more money.

Fact: Tesla was a master in the understanding of vibrations. He once took down an entire skyscraper with a device the size of a shoe-box, using nothing but vibrations from it.

Tesla was somewhat strange, but he was also a genius. He is one of the most unacknowledged scientists of the last century. Those that knew him, admired him and were some of the most recognized individuals of that period. His achievement have yet to be recognized or appreciated and probably will not be for many more years. Many of his achievements, discoveries, and inventions, perhaps lay waiting to be rediscovered or understood, perhaps by a future generation. We may not yet be ready or can not yet appreciate some of the technologies that Tesla has revealed to us.

Alien or not, perhaps that is what this "Crop Circle" is telling us. It's time to take another look and reexamine what Tesla was trying to teach us. Perhaps in it we may find some answers to some of our current problems.

Reference 2, among many similar:

http://ohoh.essortment.com/aliencropcircl_rmbo.htm

A simple google search will find tons of references to the "stalks bent but not broken." Using a board and a string results in broken, flattened talks. In a real circle, the stalks are bent over, parallel to the ground, unbroken, seeds heads undamaged, and the stalks are interwoven with one another.

Yeah, smashing them with boards doesn't do that.

And still, no acknowledgement of the first reference.

2004-06-26 06:19:57 PM jimw

Tesla also wrote Signs

Crop-circles exhibting higher than normal EM radiation, loss of cell phone, radio, etc. access. Circles forming within controlled, military areas. Etc.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_14.htm

Reference 3. Again, a simple google search results in thousands upon thousands of references for this sort of thing.

Buckshot The link (http://ohoh.essortment.com/aliencropcircl_rmbo.htm) provides no pictures, or siting any specific crop circles for further research. It's no diffrent than one of your posts. Something with a little more crediblity or evidence would be nice. It doesn't even list an author!

Reference 4, page of multiple points:

http://www.controversial-science.com/current/cc-hypothesis-comparison.htm

Most important one being 400+ formations a year in over 70 countries. I've seen that number range from 250-400. The point is the same.

No, Sandelaphon, no, it doesn't. That's true. A lot of these pages are from enthusiasts.

If you could explain reference one, the one that specifically asked for, please do.

From Buckshot's first link:
This suggested to Hawkins that the hoaxer (or hoaxers) had to know a lot of old-fashioned geometry. Hawkins himself had had the kind of British grammar-school education that years ago had instilled a healthy respect for Euclidean geometry. "We started at the age of 12 with this sort of stuff, so it became part of one's life and thinking," Hawkins said. That generally doesn't happen nowadays.
Therefore, he isn't saying it's new geometry, just someone who knows about math (or even someone who found the right book). Hardly proof of aliens and whatnot.

The second link has no pictures, so that's not particularly proof, just someone saying it is.

That one is quite credible. With pages of explanations, pictures, graphics, etc. I guess you missed that one, huh? About the new geometric and mathematical constructs?

I guess its easier to grasp for straws though.

Cool! The Asgards are real!

No, most likely it is the Elohim or "sons of God" as they are called in the bible.

One guy took the mathematics of Crop Circles and converted it into music. The music sounded spooky and just like it would be the perfect soundtrack for "Signs".

Did anyone say it was aliens?

Okay, so Outlaw_Rudy, what we're saying here, is that no modern textbooks, none, have any mention of the theories found in these circles.

And that is explained because the two hoaxers said, they know a lot of old-fashioned geometry from their youth...

Come on, give me a break. That doesn't seem like it's reaching a tad?

Buckshot: the second link (
http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_14.htm
) was long-winded, made many claims, had one high up arial veiw of a crop circle, cited no evidence or studies, is on a tin-foil new-age crystal website and most of the links at the bottom were 404s' and I'm looking at the one that isn't right now.

What would have been even more interesting if Tesla had been starting his investigations in the '30's and '40's instead of winding down - when Einstein was at his peak.

Oh, and that fourth reference contains quite a number of written references, you'll note. Some of them lacking credibility, yes, like Art Bell, most of them legitimate.

Buckshots third link (from what I skimmed of it; I'm a Farker, not an RTFAer), it doesn't really seem to explain anything, just talks about the history, possible theories, the pyramids, and 'sacred geometry', which I believe is a new-age term for euclidean geometry.

Yes, admittedly, references 2 and 3 do not come from the most legitimate of pages, but in the interests of speed for the requests here, and that there are vast number of enthusiast sites around, I chose those.

References 1 and 4 stand, however.

TheyreAllGonnaLaughAtYou I was going to post the "Prince" logo if nobody else had. That was the first thing I thought of, too. :)

I'm still bothered that I have to prove it was more than two Englishmen with a board and string.

Or a few copycats, whatever.

Guys with boards and string do not creat bent over, unbroken, undamaged, interwoven circles with higher than normal levels of EM radiation, in a short period of time, implementing previoiusly unknown geometric theories, numbering 10,000 since 1976.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030628/mathtrek.asp

Yawn. What's this supposed to prove?

Some guy studies a bunch of crop circles, and finds some simple geometric relationships. It's been awhile since high school geomentry, but it looks to me like much of that could be easily derived as a homework assignment.

I especially like the implication that because he didn't find a reference to it in any text book, it must be something new. This is a typical nutcase claim -- look through the complex literature on the subject, find some subtle thing not discussed (often because it's uninteresting to those in the field), and pass it off as a revolutionary discovery.

Also, often times there are many hidden/unintended relationships that can be discovered by examinging something closely enough. Draw a simple combination of two circles and a triangle (the second "theorm" shown), and suddenly there's an alien consiracy. If someone spend some time analyzing my random doodles while I'm on the phone, who knows what secrets might be uncovered!

This again is a classic symptom of the nuts in tinfoil hats. Look at the "bible code" bunk, or the stuff Richard Hoagland does... Hoagland (you've probably heard him talk about Mars having a face, pyramids, and vast cities) gets off on taking grainy low-resolution satellite photos, picking out apparently random points and finding complex geometric relationships with no apparent purpose.

Ok, I'll take a stab at the first link again. The crop circles aren't showing any theorems or anything. They're just shapes. Hawkins noticed a relationship between the areas of the shapes, and deduced serveral interesting theorems that will probably help kids taking the SATs in the future. It certainly doesn't mean that whoever made the circles was displaying a new theorem on purpose, just that Hawkins picked up on it.

Again, this is identical to me saying that myself and a small group of copycats are responsible for every UFO sighting in history.

Why don't you believe me? I said it was all me, and I can prove it. Look, I'll hang this UFO from a string, and blur the lens, and mess with the perspective a little. See? UFO. It was all me, and a few other guys.

Oh, the UFOs you don't know about yet? The unexplainable ones? Don't worry about those. You just don't understand my genius yet. And all the enthusiasts around will convince you further that they're obviously faked. Somehow.