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(Reuters)   Study says men want to put off marriage until they are ready. Translation: Not until I've banged all the other girls   (story.news.yahoo.com ) divider line 153
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5103 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2004 at 6:29 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



153 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2004-06-24 11:41:38 AM  
Why buy the cow, as they say...
 
2004-06-24 11:53:38 AM  
A lot of women aren't interested either. Why does the blame always go to the men?
 
2004-06-24 12:05:06 PM  
[image from startribune.com too old to be available]

Looks like she'll be waiting to lock that onto her future man just a little while longer...
 
2004-06-24 12:11:25 PM  
A lot of women aren't interested either.

They want to bang other girls too?

Sweeeet!
 
2004-06-24 12:15:55 PM  
Never getting married.
 
2004-06-24 01:16:53 PM  
Never having kids.
 
2004-06-24 01:56:11 PM  
Study finds that other men marry so that cheating is more exciting.
 
2004-06-24 03:09:00 PM  
we need a "Duh" tag for this one.
 
2004-06-24 03:29:23 PM  
my baby momma be all ridin' me 'bout dis marriage shiat.. so i says "shut up ho, I got's hooptie up and down dis block"
then she's all "oh no you di'int!" and i'm like "biatch!"
 
2004-06-24 05:57:26 PM  
Study finds that other men marry so that cheating is more exciting.


Also more costly, though.
 
2004-06-24 06:31:59 PM  
Man...this kind of things makes me hate men. And women. Heck, everyone. You all suck. Be good for fark's sake! It's not THAT hard.
 
c
2004-06-24 06:34:14 PM  
Screwing being good.. Be true to your genetic makeup and go bang anything that walks.
 
2004-06-24 06:34:33 PM  
Richard Pye -

You said 'hard'
 
2004-06-24 06:35:43 PM  
Richard Pye

Why should it make you hate anyone? The article never really mentioned anything about cheating, so I'm assuming that's just the rambling of bitter old men and women.
 
2004-06-24 06:36:01 PM  
Remember when that book "The Rules" was popular? This study was funded by all the women that bought that book and are still single.
 
2004-06-24 06:36:42 PM  
I didn't read the farking article but people have put my name in bold, I feel so loved!
 
2004-06-24 06:36:47 PM  
<i>It's not THAT hard.</i>

At this particular moment, it's *that* hard.

/Off to Brazilian soccer team page
 
2004-06-24 06:37:15 PM  
Precisely!
 
Ral
2004-06-24 06:37:23 PM  
Um, everybody puts off marriage until they are ready. Why do people assume that all women was to get married as soon as possible and all men want to remain swingin' bachelors?
 
2004-06-24 06:37:26 PM  
I don't mind being tied down ...... but not in marriage.
 
2004-06-24 06:38:15 PM  
Considering the argument that was going on in the Berkeley prostitution thread today, I think the focus on men that all this study's publicity has had is warped.

It's not as if women want to get married at some point OTHER than "when they're ready" .... if ever.
 
2004-06-24 06:39:18 PM  
A report by the group released on Wednesday found 49 percent of single heterosexual men between 25 and 34 would tie the knot tomorrow if the right woman came along. But 53 percent said they are not interested in getting hitched any time soon.

49+53=102%

/zuh?
 
2004-06-24 06:39:24 PM  
girls love @$$holes, but they usually don't want to tie the knot unless it involves cheating and beating.
quite a pickle, ain't it?
 
2004-06-24 06:39:44 PM  
The study found 94 percent of men were happier married than single; 73 percent said their sex lives were better; and 68 percent said marriage helped them become more financially stable.

*cough*bullshiat*cough*

However, a sizable number -- 22 percent of single men -- said marriage just isn't for them. They are more likely to distrust women over past relationships, worry about the risks of divorce and fear losing their personal freedom.

check, check, and check.

/surprised only 22% see the light
 
2004-06-24 06:41:11 PM  
badgertrojan

That's the 2% who would tie the knot tomorrow if the right woman came along, but who are living in monasteries and don't expect to see a human female any time soon.
 
2004-06-24 06:41:45 PM  
There's good news and bad news for aspiring brides:...

Jesus Henry Roger Frederick weeping f*cking Christ in a leaking f*cking boat !

Aspiring brides ?!?!!!

Get your mitts out of my wallet so they can do some f*cking work...

aspiring brides.F*ck me gently with a broomstick ,grandma.
 
2004-06-24 06:41:46 PM  
What? No gender bashing yet?
 
2004-06-24 06:43:08 PM  
If you compare the sexes, I wonder how many men don't want to get married because they were mistreated by a woman or women, compared to women because they were mistreated by a man or men.
For women, I imagine that "pregnant and abandoned" is their big fear; and for men, it's "losing half of all my property and future earnings, not including alimony and child support."

It boils down to biology: men want to be the fathers of the children they help raise, and women both want the best sperm donor and the best provider, which are not likely to be the same man. Marriage benefits men only when it helps guarantee that their offspring are theirs; it benefits women only when it helps guarantee a provider for her offspring.
 
2004-06-24 06:43:18 PM  
Its starting Rain in 3 .... 2 .... 1
 
2004-06-24 06:44:27 PM  
Run Men Run!
Don't Get married!
Stay Single!
Don't Let Women Trap You!
Run!
 
2004-06-24 06:45:57 PM  
"The trend is to put marriage off."

particularly in cases where some bint's resume reads : "aspiring bride".

I wonder what that euphemism means?

aspiring actress = newcomer pornstar. ok. fine.

aspiring brides. holy mother of god.
 
2004-06-24 06:46:04 PM  
see... we don't *want* to cheat - we try to avoid it!
 
2004-06-24 06:46:29 PM  
It boils down to biology: men want to be the fathers of the children they help raise, and women both want the best sperm donor and the best provider, which are not likely to be the same man. Marriage benefits men only when it helps guarantee that their offspring are theirs; it benefits women only when it helps guarantee a provider for her offspring.

Only, of course, applied to people who wish to have offspring. Which isn't everyone.

BTW, married men on average live longer than unmarried men. So I tend to think that it has SOME direct benefit to them that has nothing to do with offspring.

Conversely, unmarried women live longer than married women (in general) and women's lifespans are inversely correlated with the number of sons they have. So guys -- your wife might be sacrificing years off her life for you!
 
2004-06-24 06:47:44 PM  
"Waiting until I am ready"

Like I have a choice to not wait. Riiiight.
 
2004-06-24 06:47:55 PM  
To quote my former college roommate, "biatches like snow."

That is all.
 
2004-06-24 06:48:01 PM  
" The study found 94 percent of men were happier married than single"

10 to 1 says the wives answered this question.
 
2004-06-24 06:48:16 PM  
"Why There Are No Good Men Left,"

....they heard about "aspiring brides", and sought peaceful refuge in Fallujah.
 
2004-06-24 06:49:17 PM  
BTW, married men on average live longer than unmarried men. So I tend to think that it has SOME direct benefit to them that has nothing to do with offspring.

They aren't allowed to die, if all the jokes are true. :)
 
2004-06-24 06:50:06 PM  
married men on average live longer than unmarried men.

No, it just seems longer.
 
2004-06-24 06:51:59 PM  
another gem :That shouldn't deter a marriage-minded woman from letting her man know what she wants

marriage-minded ?

Liz Taylor is "marriage-minded "! run for your lives.

War,famine, pestilence and marriage-minded women!

Moses, you had nothing!
 
2004-06-24 06:52:44 PM  
Liz Taylor has a mind?
 
2004-06-24 06:53:52 PM  
*oh*

Hi,honey!

G'night Farkers....
 
2004-06-24 06:54:47 PM  
Isn't it great when a bunch of virgins talk out against marriage?

/flame on, I've got popcorn
 
2004-06-24 06:54:50 PM  
Look, Goobers:

I'm a chick, I got married when I was 26. It didn't work out and I walked away with practically nothing -- only my fair share in the house we bought together -- because I didn't want his farking money.

I got remarried when I was 33 to the RIGHT man, because he practically begged me. I was ready to go the the grave single because there is no hell as bad as a bad marriage. I was no freaking 'aspiring bride' and I don't know any aspiring brides. I only know women who want to be happy and aren't willing to chance it with some cheating or cheap ass, exploitative, wife-beating piece of lazy shiat.

Did I mention I am the one with the steady salary?

Chill out, goobers.
 
2004-06-24 06:56:34 PM  
National Marriage Project

OMG !!!!

we're doomed,doomed I tell you



*nothing darling,just finishing up here!*
 
2004-06-24 06:56:56 PM  
Clinton.

There, I said it. Let the flame war commence.
 
2004-06-24 06:58:41 PM  
Another edit of this story was available yesterday and included a line about how women "weren't able to comprehend" delaying marriage.

As I've been saying for years, and even been quoted in advice columns, men are not adverse to the "C" word, it is women who are instead obsessed with it to the point of utter stupidity.
 
2004-06-24 06:58:59 PM  
in other news : Men stop masturbating when they get divorced....
 
2004-06-24 07:02:30 PM  
LordZorch,

Bah. I say men turn 30 and in the next year or two, all of a sudden, it's "Oh, fark. I need to get married now!" Unless of course he is belaboring under the delusion that he can be 40 years old and keep dating 20 year old hotties -- when they're only using him for the pot and a place to crash.

Newsflash, guys: women are suspicious of guys who are single and in their mid to late 30s and have never been in a serious, committed relationship because it means they have the delusion aforementioned.
 
2004-06-24 07:04:02 PM  
LordZorch

you're talking about teh "coont" word, right?

/yes yes I know what you meant
 
2004-06-24 07:07:39 PM  
And let's get the "mysongynistic rants" cued up kids...this is your time to shine fellas...
 
2004-06-24 07:08:05 PM  
For some reason right now I know a lot of guys in their 40's and 50's who are desperate to have children and looking for women in their 30's. I think all of them bought into that "women want a secure provider" bs and are now discovering that IN FACT most women want a total hottie.
 
2004-06-24 07:09:08 PM  
Why the fark would any self-respecting man want to marry and have kids? I'm very happily single and have no intentions of ever getting a ball and chain. I've seen what happens to men when they marry. They turn into wimps who only do what their wives tell them. Ugh, I want to shoot them and put them out of their misery.

You younger farkers, pay heed. If a woman starts talking long-term relationships, run! Run hard, run fast! Run like wind!
 
2004-06-24 07:10:37 PM  
No, have a long term relationship, just don't get married. Don't become a whipped-ass biatch, either.
 
2004-06-24 07:11:08 PM  
I think all of them bought into that "women want a secure provider" bs and are now discovering that IN FACT most women want a total hottie.

Not true. I think most women want a man who is willing to cook and clean and stay home with the kids (if there are any) while she goes out and works to support the family. Ok, at least that is what I want.

Seriously though, looks are important, but they should never be the make or break of a relationship. If they are, that person has serious issues and is not worthy of having a real relationship.
 
2004-06-24 07:12:39 PM  
Personally, I'm more worried about women being unfaithful and then me being the one reamed in the courts. Instinctually and rationally, I don't want an unfaithful woman, and I'm sure as hell not risking massive amounts of money on just anyone.

Face it girls, you have the same obstacle to get over as men do now. There's a lot out there who are conniving sorts who will use others for their pleasure.

Of course, there's always foolish men and women who think assholes "truly love them". Keeping America's divorce lawyers in business for generations now.

Bitter? Not really, just enjoying a good old Farkian rant. If I find a woman who can put up with me, that alone is half the battle.
 
2004-06-24 07:12:41 PM  
Married, me? Hell freezes over.
 
2004-06-24 07:13:07 PM  
And the previous post just explicated my point. Yeah, I'll hang up my surgical tech job and master's degree in biology to be a stay at home dad. fark that.
 
2004-06-24 07:13:52 PM  
"The study found 94 percent of men were happier married than single"

yet

50% of marriages end in divorce.

A divorce, to me, doesn't seem to be the culmination of happiness.

Marriage is for co-dependants.
 
2004-06-24 07:14:51 PM  
emilykp

True about the looks... Maybe I should have said it this way: A 50-y-o guy is never going to keep up with a 30-y-o woman in bed. And most 30-y-o women know that. And care about it, too.
 
2004-06-24 07:15:29 PM  
Janusdog

an unfortunate choice of moniker in a thread like this,but hey....

Newsflash, guys: women are suspicious of guys who are single and in their mid to late 30s and have never been in a serious, committed relationship

Follow up: Most people are suspicious of them, not just women...that is,when they're not being protected by mommy.

as an aside : belaboring (v), to beat,to strike repeatedly.
 
2004-06-24 07:19:05 PM  
eddyatwork

Why the fark would any self-respecting man want to marry and have kids?

ah,the dilemma! because you only really find out after the fact.

mostly though, its for the same reason as the snake tries to cross the freeway........
 
2004-06-24 07:19:36 PM  
"The study found 94 percent of men were happier married than single"

yet

50% of marriages end in divorce.


So the logical thing to conclude would be that women are less happy about their marriages than men are. That's the problem with the press coverage on this study: it's all about the men. Personally, I'd be really interested to know what percentage of women are happier married than single.
 
2004-06-24 07:19:42 PM  
Andrew, and am I supposed to hang up my doctorate to stay home and wipe up drool? Hell no. There are plenty of women who are not interested in castration or drool.

It is a good point that we have the same issues as men these days -- witness the rise in female heart conditions -- all I'm saying is that that old woman-bashing crap tends to be the refuge of the ignorant, since there are plenty of women who are thinking just like you.

Personally I think it's every man's fear that we might just not need men at all some day. Do you really think it would be paradise if women just wanted booty and could take you or leave you? Seriously.
 
2004-06-24 07:20:50 PM  
Andrewfish - I was sort of kidding in my post. I would love it if that could actually happen, as I am not a good housekeeper (i.e. I was the clothes but they never end up back in my dresser) but I really would never require that anyone give up their job for me. That just makes the other person angry in the long run and that resentment will ruin your realtionship. Now, if someone offers, would I turn that down? I don't know.
 
2004-06-24 07:22:21 PM  
Exactly, because I've dated a ton of women like that. All of them are fairly miserable. I wasn't woman-bashing, just explicating the fact that feminist schools of thought and women's lib aren't about reversing stereotypes, in fact that's the worst thing that could happen.

Fortunately I'm with someone who doesn't treat me like a dildo and has her own life.
 
2004-06-24 07:22:25 PM  
i.e. I was the clothes but they never end up back in my dresser

Hee-hee. I meant wash.
 
2004-06-24 07:23:21 PM  
Emily- Get a housekeeper :)
 
2004-06-24 07:26:29 PM  
Andrew, I didn't mean to imply that you were woman bashing. I meant generally, like you see on Craigslist: "Gold digging biatches, all."

I'm just not sure why we seem to be either castrating biatches or gold diggers.
 
2004-06-24 07:28:36 PM  
Just like religious people, the happy medium is much better than the extremes.
 
2004-06-24 07:31:35 PM  
Well, off to craigslist I go, this I gotta see.
 
2004-06-24 07:31:54 PM  
mattyc Great pic! Where's it from?

Part of the problem is parents who push-push-push the marriage thing whenever their son/daughter even remotely seems interested in someone.

The father of the future bride often loses all common sense. Goes into debt to ensure the "perfect" wedding, the mothers start pushing the plans. Showers with ridiculously expensive gifts!

I've had friends literally "swept-up" in the madness perpetuated by their relatives, getting married, only to find out thay really can't stand each other.

A message to parents: BUTT OUT!!. It's your kids future, not some stupid "I can spend more money and plan better" contest..

NOTE: if the couple truly love each other, they'll make their own wedding plans!
 
2004-06-24 07:32:42 PM  
Andrew - Are there male housekeepers that are straight? See, I would need to have sex a lot, so a housekeeper might not work.

Ok, all jokes aside, I was in a very long term relationship (8 years) and, when it ended, I was very hurt. I shut down for a while. Then, just so that I wouldn't be alone, I started sleeping with a guy who was a real asshat. I wanted him to be able to give me something more, but he couldn't. Having said that, I still believe in love (I have to vomit now that I said that)and I know that I can't expect people to change for me. If you love someone, you take them as they are, jobs and all.
 
2004-06-24 07:35:22 PM  
Try the SF Craigslist. NYers are too smart. :)
 
2004-06-24 07:36:45 PM  
Well, I didn't imply that you'd be using the housekeeper as a sex partner.

We've all been farked over, but I never got lonely enough to do that, I really don't know.

Heh, and my parents will have nothing to do with my wedding, I'm gonna elope, just to duck the insanity of yuppies gone wild.
 
2004-06-24 07:38:27 PM  
2004-06-24 06:54:50 PM Janusdog

Look, Goobers:

I'm a chick, I got married when I was 26. It didn't work out and I walked away with practically nothing -- only my fair share in the house we bought together -- because I didn't want his farking money.


Sounds like you got your fair share.
How can you say that you got "practically nothing"? Does that mean because you chose not to rape him for "his money" you somehow feel honorable?
Get the chip off your shoulder. Sheez.
 
2004-06-24 07:42:57 PM  
Uranus
Janusdog


Newsflash, guys: women are suspicious of guys who are single and in their mid to late 30s and have never been in a serious, committed relationship
Follow up: Most people are suspicious of them, not just women...that is,when they're not being protected by mommy.

Okay, so what do you do when youve been in a long term loving, committed, relationship and your partner dies or becomes mentally ill? I was in a very strong relationship for 5 years until my girlfreind developed dementia brought on by lupus. I was devastated for a long time, and now, seven years later, I am finally back in the market. The problem is, I look just like all the virgin basement-dwellers to women.

Is there like, a badge i can wear that sez " Dont let seven years fool you, i was once in a really mature, commited relationship?"
Or should i jsut take saltpeter with my coffee in the morning?
 
2004-06-24 07:46:19 PM  
If I would have tied the knot when I was 20 I would never have stayed married. I waited till I was 30 and had experienced life a bit and had a little more control over little Elvis. I always said I skipped my first wife and married my second one, and its true.
 
2004-06-24 07:46:37 PM  
halfjack

My experience is that if a guy has been through something like that, he brings it up on the second date. I.e., don't bring it up if there's no potential, but be sure to bring it up at the stage when you're both wondering what the potential might be....
 
2004-06-24 07:46:39 PM  
I waited until I was ready. Didn't get married until I was 30. Of course, I was with my wife-to-be for 8 years prior. We got divorced four years later. Oops.

You never know. I spent a third of my life with woman, and bad things happened. Thing is, I was happy for most of that 12 years.

Waiting to get married is about as goofy as saying "NEVER" because you just don't know.

When I say waiting I mean putting an arbitrary limit to when you want to get married. Not before this date. sort of thing. Finding the right person is kind of a must, and knowing them well enough to make that decision is kind of a must.

You don't know what's going to happen. You could, like me, fall down and have an aneurysm tomorrow. You could get hit by a bus. A chunk of rock could fall from the sky, or you could slip, fall, cut yourself on a shard of metal, contract some nasty bug and die.

You could meet someone tomorrow and fall head over heels, and know in your heart of hearts that this is The One. It happens. But you can't predict if and when it's going to happen.

What you have to do is trust yourself. Far too many times we second guess ourselves. And it's that second guess that gets us, each and every time. We hesitate, we flutter, we fail to heed that little voice in the back of our heads by trying to appear rational.

Love ain't rational. It's not rational to step in front of a bullet for someone. But it's there. You fall, you know it. You're hooked, and you ride it for all it's worth.

I waited to get married, until the time was right. I pissed away some good married years, and a lot of good time by thinking waaay too hard about things. I knew that she was the one I wanted to be with, and when things went South with the relationship, I waited to get out, in the hopes that things could be mended and would change.

I was bone ass stupid. I invite my fellow Farkers to learn from my mistakes.

If it feels right, and you love that person, and you trust them, then commit, go in with both feet, and don't look back. Love each other for as hard, and as long as you can.

If you come to a place where it's just NOT working, and you go through your options, get OUT while you can still talk to one another. Try to remember the times when you were good together, and friends, and out of respect for that, end it to preserve it. Don't farm it out, don't stagger it along, and drag all your friends and relations along for years of misery, just face that you've changed, and what you had isn't what you need.

But don't be afraid. You can't plan on disaster. Don't try to plan to avoid heartache. It ends, and it was good, you're going to hurt. It's supposed to. Teaches you something. About what NOT to do. No pain, no growth.

No matter what, stuff happens. You try to plan out every moment ahead, you're going to wind up worrying about the little details, and pass up on the good stuff. There's being cafeful, and then there's being stupid. And planning too much instead of just jumping can be just as disasterous as not looking before you leap.

You've got to trust you before you can trust anyone else. This fixation about absolutes is damn entertaining, because the way the Universe is set up, there isn't much you can count on that you can do anything about. Uranium will decay, water will be wet at 30 degrees C, and oxygen will feed a fire. Pretty much everything with people, puppies and kittens is up in the air.

You want to lull yourself into thinking that you have control in your life, go right ahead. But we aren't, we're all careening pretty much to the same place, and you can enjoy the ride, or you can fret about it.

I figure, you might as well enjoy it. I crapped out of a marriage, and learned something. I invite others to learn from that mistake. Be with your partner. Trust them. If they aren't worth that trust, then you need to get out. Be with someone that is worthy of you. You keep making excuses for their behavior, you have a problem. You turn over and wonder what if... and your partner isn't in those mental meanderings very often, then you might want to have a serious sit down with yourself and take an inventory of what you want and need.

A little fantasy is good, but if you constantly wonder what life would be like without that person, then you might want to get out. Because when you know it's right, you can't really imagine life without that person.

All this worry about what's right is the thing that's dragging us down. Too much thought into process that bypasses thought entirely. Trust in yourself, and you'll find others you can trust. Find yourself someone that you're good with, that makes you want to be a better person, and love them for all your worth. Let the Universe sort out the details as you go. Too much time wasted thinking about the imponderable. You be with that person who is most important to you, you love them for all you got. Let others worry about the propriety of married or not. If it feels right to step down the aisle, then do it, and be happy in it. If it don't feel right, then don't, and be happy in it. The important thing is that you're happy in it.

Don't sweat the little shiat. And remember, unless it's going to kill you and yours, it's ALL little shiat.

If you won't take it from me, take it from Jimmy...

Take it from me 'cause I found
If you leave it then somebody else is bound
To find that treasure, that moment of pleasure
When yours it could have been

Some people never find it, some only pretend
But me, hell, I just want to live happily ever after
Every now and then
 
2004-06-24 07:48:07 PM  
halfjack,

I don't see where you were not in a 'real' relationship? Sounds like you're honorable and kind. You shouldn't need a badge, just a woman who listens when you talk.

And kurfu, I was scrounging for money under my floormats in my car to pay for tolls while his quality of life went *up*. You don't know from chips.
 
2004-06-24 07:49:20 PM  
I meant 'standard of living', har har, but I'm sure he feels the quality went up too. :)
 
2004-06-24 07:50:08 PM  
Our wedding cost less than $500, had a total of eight people in attendance and lasted 7 minutes. Short, sweet, cheap, done. Many people I know had HUGE weddings that cost a small fortune, and yet now they are no more happy than my wife and I. Some are less happy and and a few will probably divorce. The size of the wedding or "the ring" doesn't matter, it's who the people are once the wedding ends and the marriage begins.

I'm so glad I didn't marry a women with a "princess-for-a-day" complex when it came to the wedding. And now when friends get engaged and want to marry, I tell them to elope or do what we did. Otherwise their engagement is going to be miserable and their marriage will begin with an ulcer and a mountain of debt.
 
2004-06-24 07:55:03 PM  
Here's a question: how many of you trust your parents enough so that if they arranged a marriage for you, you would be cool with it?

Think about it a bit before answering.
 
2004-06-24 07:55:35 PM  
No farking way. Elope or die. :P
 
2004-06-24 07:55:44 PM  
whammer - never. and my parents would never arrange one for me. thank the sweet lord in heaven for that.
 
2004-06-24 07:56:51 PM  
I've been noticing that chicks my age (22) don't want to get into serious relationships or settle down.

They all want to play the field.

That's good I guess, but it's a real mind fark for guys like me who were just looking for a nice stable relationship. It's even worse when you thought you had one, but your missus decides she wants to play the field.

Not that I'm bitter about about it. *cough*whore*cough*

It's ok though, I realised I should be playing the field too. Fark settling down.
 
2004-06-24 07:57:10 PM  
Janusdog
No man, you misundertood, i think. I meant, How do i let women know that i am capable of a committing to a strong relationship,and in fact have had one, even though theyve never SEEN me in one?

Office_despot are you speaking fro mthe male or female perspective?
 
2004-06-24 07:57:28 PM  
whammer Is this assuming that we want to be married, or does this include my parents arranging a marriage for me even though it's not on my list of things to do?
 
2004-06-24 08:00:19 PM  
halfjack I'm a farkette. Straight, professional, currently dating a guy who has had previous troublesome committed relationships.
 
2004-06-24 08:00:40 PM  

2004-06-24 07:48:07 PM Janusdog

And kurfu, I was scrounging for money under my floormats in my car to pay for tolls while his quality of life went *up*. You don't know from chips.



This is after you got half of the house, yes?

You were digging for change? What, no job?

Why did his quality of life improve after you split? Maybe because he no longer had to support *you*.

I know too much already, missy.
 
2004-06-24 08:00:44 PM  
Oh, and by the way

There will be only FOUR people present at my wedding:

1. Me,
2. My beloved
3. The minister
4. the hot air baloon pilot
 
2004-06-24 08:01:56 PM  
kurfu - you sound like a very enlightened, very happy and understanding individual. Are you currently in a relationship?
 
2004-06-24 08:02:55 PM  
It just seems like most of the people I meet are poly too. There's times I wish I could do that. And I gotta say- being upfront about what you want from a relationship is mandatory.
 
2004-06-24 08:04:20 PM  
synik - where are you meeting these women? I knew plenty of 22 year old women who were interested in long term relationships and very marriage minded. In fact, I have many friends who were married by 22. I had a whole set of friends get married as soon as they graduated college, all 22.

You need to go to places where relationship-minded 22 year old women gather. If you can't find them there, go somewhere else.

It's also possible that you have met them and they aren't interested in a relationship with you. Before you go blaming the women for not settling down, make sure that you yourself are good long-term relationship material.
 
2004-06-24 08:04:35 PM  
halfjack, I don't think I misunderstood. I don't have to see you in a relationship -- that's why if you're dating your dating history tells an important story. That's why we're telling you to make sure you bring up that story when you're dating someone you might like to keep dating.

History = correlated with future. While that sounds obvious, I know many women who would marry Henry VIII because 'this time it'll be different'.

Whammer, my father would choose a guy that he would like, not one that would necessarily be good for me.
 
2004-06-24 08:05:39 PM  
kurfu, dear farkwit, you need to deal with that anger problem.
 
2004-06-24 08:06:19 PM  
halfjack
Oh, and by the way
There will be only FOUR people present at my wedding:
1. Me,
2. My beloved
3. The minister
4. the hot air baloon pilot


That's the kind of wedding you want. Creative, stress-free, memorable, and something that leaves you a lot of money for the honeymoon.
 
2004-06-24 08:07:29 PM  
No way I'd let my parents arrange a marriage for me. I think that arranged marriages actually work pretty well in some places, but it's largely because people expect totally different things from the relationship than what we tend to expect in the US and Europe.
 
2004-06-24 08:08:13 PM  
Kurfu is as bitter as a baking soda lollipop...
 
2004-06-24 08:10:52 PM  
2004-06-24 08:05:39 PM Janusdog

kurfu, dear farkwit, you need to deal with that anger problem.


HA! Must have struck a nerve.

You lose on the grounds of being the first to resort name-calling and making unqualified psychological evaluation.

I win.
;)
 
2004-06-24 08:10:55 PM  
Hmm, straight folks realizing marriage as sold is a crock right as gay people are getting into it. Ironic tag, anyone?
 
2004-06-24 08:14:14 PM  
halfjack
Janusdog
No man, you misundertood, i think. I meant, How do i let women know that i am capable of a committing to a strong relationship,and in fact have had one, even though theyve never SEEN me in one?


If I may add my two cents, my wife never saw me in a long-term relationship. When we met I was single. What clued her in to my being a good match was who I was as a person, who I was when we were together, and who I was to everyone else. She saw that I was a good person and that I had my act together. We also had many long conversations and that told her even more about me.

Don't psyche yourself out over this. If there are still issues you need to deal with, deal with them. Otherwise, just go in, be yourself, be honest about your past, and don't assume the other person is going to look down on you about it.
 
2004-06-24 08:14:35 PM  
2004-06-24 08:08:13 PM hubiestubert

Kurfu is as bitter as a baking soda lollipop...


Not bitter at all.

Janusdog is the one playing victim by complaining about not getting anything when she got half the house. I'm just calling her out on it.
 
2004-06-24 08:16:58 PM  
soporific

I've picked this up from not just women I've dated, but also in conversations with chick friends. So it's not that they don't want to date *me* long term.

Other blokes I've talked to have noticed the same thing.

Women in this city (Brisbane, Australia) seem to have hit a point where they can play the field as much as they think guys do, and not be called a slut for doing so. They are taking full advantage of this.

I suspect the only chicks that want to settle down are in church. :>
 
2004-06-24 08:17:47 PM  
kuufu
I don't think she's playing victim one bit. I think she's giving a counterexample to a bunch of people who claim that women always walk away with all of the money. She's not complaining about the divorce settlement, she's complaining about farkers misconceptions about divorce settlements.
 
2004-06-24 08:17:50 PM  
Janusdog
Office_despot


Thank you. That was some of the most honest and intelligent advice ive gotten from women in a long time.

soporific
Im glad you like it :) I thought of it after listening to Natalie Merchants cover of 'airship' I wasnt actaully thinking of the cost, more of the 'communion of flight'
 
2004-06-24 08:20:27 PM  
My parents tried to arrange dates for me when I was a teenager. Besides the creepy factor, the girls they picked were horrible. Either they were plain janes (yeah, I'm no prize, but these girls I wouldn't hit with a two by four.) or they were completely boring, or God help me, they were they were snotty rich biatches that my parents felt were appropriate for someone of my social standing. Yes mom, I love people who judge you based on the label of your designer jeans. Right.

The main criteria of my parents was not the personality or looks, but instead the social standing and wealth of the girls in question. It's all about prestige. Bleaugh.
 
2004-06-24 08:20:29 PM  
Um kurfu maybe you should re-read the original post, because Janusdog was certainly not complaining. Boasting, perhaps -- or maybe reflexively defending herself before those Farkers who frequently turn up shouting "gold-digger!" hopped into the thread.

She got out of a bad relationship and took care of herself. What's it to you?
 
2004-06-24 08:22:17 PM  
hey Kurfu,

Jeez, man. chill. Lay off of Janusdog. She opened up to you -on fark, for goodness sakes- in order to show that women can be honorable and cool (in as much as EITHER side can be cool) in a divorce.

It sounds like you are really angry or something. Dont take it out on people who dont desrve it, 'kay?
 
2004-06-24 08:26:42 PM  
I don't think I was boasting. I might be, but it's unintentional. I do think that people have a sorry idea of what actually happens in a divorce, economically.

I walked away with half of the equity, not the house, which he sold for $100,000 more than we bought it for. He kept it all. My cut was totalling a huge max of $5000, $3000 of which went to divorce costs and $500 to buying myself a bed, since he kept all the furniture. I was working and I needed to relocate. That ate up the rest. I had (have) student loans and was being paid at a postdoctoral residency -- a whole whopping $24,000 for a year's salary.

Not that I should have to justify my finances on Fark. I just think that many many people think women are making out like bandits and believe me, we are not.
 
2004-06-24 08:27:56 PM  
Soporific

She saw that I was a good person and that I had my act together. We also had many long conversations and that told her even more about me.

Thanks for the good example, man. If i may ask, define 'act together' was it in a financial sense, i.e. that you had a steady career at the time? Or do you mean in some other sense?
 
2004-06-24 08:30:55 PM  
halfjack you're welcome. I was just looking at your Web site -- sometime I might ask you to return the favor and tell me how to "recover" from being a biologist.
 
2004-06-24 08:32:20 PM  
halfjack, thanks. :) Just spreading the wuv.
 
2004-06-24 08:42:35 PM  
halfjack

Thanks for the good example, man. If i may ask, define 'act together' was it in a financial sense, i.e. that you had a steady career at the time? Or do you mean in some other sense?

We were in college when we met. One thing she quickly noticed about me was that I never complained about being broke. I was never rolling in money, but I was never foolish about it either. I knew how to go without and save up for the big things, and it showed her that I was mature about finances and was capable of long-term thinking.

I took school seriously and graduated on time, but I was able to balance work with having fun, which is essential in a relationship. I treated her well when we were together and treated others well, including waiters in restaraunts. I never abused customer service people.

This is not to say I didn't do some stupid things. I did, and she called me on them. But learned from those mistakes and never repeated them. We had conflict and we resolved it maturely.

It's really the little things that add up to the big things. If you are capable of being in a long-term relationship, it will come out. If she sees that you are a type of person worth being with, then your seven year break from dating won't be a problem.

I wish you the best. Oh, and don't forget to relax. And don't try too hard to impress her either. If you're the genuine article, you'll sell yourself without even trying. I;ve seen it happen.
 
2004-06-24 08:47:02 PM  
The trick is to know when you're out of your league with a girl. As soon as you're sure... marry her!

/I did
 
2004-06-24 08:58:56 PM  
synik
Women in this city (Brisbane, Australia) seem to have hit a point where they can play the field as much as they think guys do, and not be called a slut for doing so. They are taking full advantage of this.

There you go, then. To be fair, my experience is limited to the USofA and specifically, women from Texas. Texan women can get a bit nutty about getting married, so I shouldn't assume they're like that everywhere. Different country, different culture, different rules.

I suspect the only chicks that want to settle down are in church. :>

Probably. That's where I met my wife. Most of my friends who got married young were Christians, so again that does play a part.
 
2004-06-24 08:59:41 PM  
B.P.

Wrong, sorry, you lose.

The divorce rate is NOT 50%. That false information was gathered from a census where there were 2.4 million marriages and 1.2 million divorces. However, the person who got the info didn't take into account the 56 million marriages currently in effect. Therefore, it was only 2%. I have no doubt that the divorce rate is up, but 50% is WAY too high.
 
2004-06-24 09:16:34 PM  
office_despot
Wow! im flattered. Its a little out of date; most of my work is for game studios now. As for how you recover, its a long, slow process, not without its pitfalls. Occasionally, my freinds have had to intervene (such as after I had a weekend-long bender in my kitchen trying to extract the blue pigment from pokeberries). My artwork helps, as do production deadlines :).

soporific
Heh. Yeah. Thanks. Good advice. I actually knew that, i think. its just easy to psych yourself out.
 
2004-06-24 09:16:55 PM  
For those of you planning to get married, don't be a sucker and get a "diamond engagement ring." Have a little creativity for fark's sakes. The whole diamond bit was invented by deBeers, to, surprise, sell diamonds.

Should I ever find a lass to wed, she'll be getting an opal.
 
2004-06-24 09:22:15 PM  
yeah, diamond is not very precious. They shine up pretty well and may accent something, but Im with you, cuprous2,get something unique.
 
2004-06-24 09:26:53 PM  
hey, cuprous

when i was with my lady, I made a pair of silver rings, whose decoration, instead of a stone, was a little puzzle lock. so when you took them off, they could be joined together into a little sculpture. Her freinds were jealous for WEEKS :)

Take some silversmithing courses, man. Its not expensive, and you wont regret it.

okay, im giving away ALL my secrets on this thread -i gotta stop before everyone one-ups me.
 
2004-06-24 09:32:26 PM  
I made my girlfriend's engagment ring from the crushed meta tarsals of my defeated enemies.

ok, well, actually my defeated enemies just came from a bucket of KFC.
 
2004-06-24 09:33:33 PM  
halfjack

If you haven't dated in 7 years, keep in mind that the going could be bumpy for a while -- not because there's anything at all wrong with you, but because meeting new people and going on dates leaves everyone with a few bruises.

(such as after I had a weekend-long bender in my kitchen trying to extract the blue pigment from pokeberries)

Hahaha -- yes! Like the cicada photography relapse bender here.
 
2004-06-24 09:33:36 PM  
Ok, actually, I'm not engaged.
 
2004-06-24 09:35:10 PM  
Am I relapsing again if I ask chickenfriedmonkey what chicken FEET were doing in his KFC? Usually they just have wings in there, right?
 
2004-06-24 09:36:00 PM  
Oh yea... ok, it was phalanges then.
 
2004-06-24 09:36:44 PM  
(I don't know if that's spelled right, or if chickens even have phalanges.)
 
2004-06-24 09:36:56 PM  
Well, you could get away with metacarpals...
 
2004-06-24 09:38:02 PM  
(I don't know if that's spelled right, or if chickens even have phalanges.)

Yes you did and yes they do.
Now stop it, you ARE giving me a relapse.
 
2004-06-24 09:47:22 PM  
cuprous2
I'm sure she'll be the hit of the Renaissance Fair.
 
2004-06-24 10:16:07 PM  
Have a little creativity for fark's sakes. The whole diamond bit was invented by deBeers, to, surprise, sell diamonds.

True or not, giving a valuable gift upon engagement is a traditional way of showing a woman not only that you have significant resources, but also that you are willing to commit them (and therefore yourself) to her. Sounds primitive, but my wife's a both white collar professional making a good living and an ardent feminist, and yet she still took the bait. Take it from someone who managed to marry a prime catch (hot, smart, tough, independent, fun, etc.) -- it pays to understand some simple biology.

/been reading a lot of Jared Diamond lately...
 
2004-06-24 10:16:58 PM  
2004-06-24 08:26:42 PM Janusdog

I walked away with half of the equity, not the house, which he sold for $100,000 more than we bought it for. He kept it all. My cut was totalling a huge max of $5000, $3000 of


That doesn't sound right... How could the house sell for $100K more than what you bought it for, and %50 of the equity was only $5K?

You should have gotten half the value of everything (furniture?) that was purchased during the marriage, and also paid for half of whatever debt was incurred during the marriage (net-value of the marriage). Each of you should have walked away with whatever assets you had before you were married. That's fair.

Not that I should have to justify my finances on Fark.

No you certainly do no thave to justify yourself here. However, you did intiate the discussion, and did not have to reply to any of my questions, yes?

Someone asked -- what's it to me? Nothing. I didn't start this conversation. I never called her a gold digger. I did ask questions about her statements. That's how a conversation works, people.

Sheez. Lighten up yourself, dude(s).
 
2004-06-24 10:19:07 PM  
And, in case you were curious, that is not a photo of me in my bio. It's a little in joke for my fellow Tenacious D fans (and an insult to latter-day Black Sabbath fans).
 
2004-06-24 10:39:13 PM  
I got the equity of the house at the time of the divorce, not what he sold it for a couple of years later.
 
2004-06-24 10:40:52 PM  
To clarify, half of what we put into it, not including the parts of the down payment his father put into it.

Bottom line: Me poor. Him fine.
 
2004-06-24 10:57:36 PM  
mkreamer
I'm sure she'll be the hit of the Renaissance Fair.

Still paying off that "two months salary"?
 
2004-06-24 11:08:31 PM  
hey, Office_despot

seriosuly? you too? man! its rough isnt it! what field were you in, and what field are you in now?
 
2004-06-24 11:11:32 PM  
cuprous2
Not at all ... I'm one of the 22%; just good at the "I can recognize that dork in four words or less" game.
 
2004-06-24 11:19:10 PM  
adman12
it pays to understand some simple biology.

Well, I'm not going to bust on you or your wife, but I still think it's pretty lame as a whole. How many guys have gone into hock to buy an extra half carat as if that makes their love anymore genuine? Personally, I think it's both cheap and sad.

Like I said, the diamond engagement ring is, and always will be, nothing more than a wildly successfull marketing ploy on the part of debeers. You can read all about it here.

This is the meat of the article though:

Although it could do little about the state of the economy, N. W. Ayer suggested that through a well-orchestrated advertising and public-relations campaign it could have a significant impact on the "social attitudes of the public at large and thereby channel American spending toward larger and more expensive diamonds instead of "competitive luxuries." Specifically, the Ayer study stressed the need to strengthen the association in the public's mind of diamonds with romance. Since "young men buy over 90% of all engagement rings" it would be crucial to inculcate in them the idea that diamonds were a gift of love: the larger and finer the diamond, the greater the expression of love. Similarly, young women had to be encouraged to view diamonds as an integral part of any romantic courtship.

Get the idea? I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about their investment, but the point remains that a diamond engagement ring is a concocted tradition. The whole argument that there's a historical precedent for a man to give a woman something valuable upon their marriage is somewhat false. Look up the definition of "dowry."

Although, I suppose, at this point, since nobody really bothers to study the diamond engagement ring's origins, it may as well be accepted into society as a norm... which it practically is. I'm still gunning for the opal though. Perhaps i'll take halfjack's advice and make the ring myself.
 
2004-06-25 12:07:00 AM  
"I can see myself getting married, having kids. But a tattoo? That's so permanent."

apologies to some comedian
 
2004-06-25 12:07:25 AM  
Personal experience and general observation has shown me that women cheat and lie far more than men ever conceive of doing. But, for a woman it is always rationalized and forgiven (if not outright encouraged), while men are considered slime for doing the same thing.

Examples: Meg Ryan. Does anyone have any doubts that if her husband started three-holing one of his female costars the press would have compared him to Hitler? Meg, on the other hand, gets it from "bad boy" Russel Crowe, and the magazines talk about she has found a new love (apparently, only women find new love) and we should all be happy for her. Or take Tom Cruise (please, take him away and drown his scrawny butt). He gets vilified for getting bored with his current, aging, babe wife and trades her in for a new model. Had Nicole started blowing one of her costars I'm sure all would have been forgiven, and Tom would be villified for not making her life perfect.

Women are genetically insane, boorish, and nowhere near as fascinating to talk to as they like to seem. There are a very few exceptions, but cannot be predicted statistically.
 
2004-06-25 12:23:44 AM  
Ugh, don't get me started on debeers. I can't wait for those new manufactured yet real diamonds hit the market in force.
 
2004-06-25 12:24:27 AM  
LordZorch apparently needs a hug. And needs to read "The Scarlet Letter."
 
2004-06-25 12:49:12 AM  
cynik, you're right, I think. I got burned by a 23 y/o ho who decided a stable relationship wasn't her thing anymore. Now she's married - go figure. Seems like that 21->25 age is reserved for shagging these days... Live and learn, and to each their own. She's got a 9-5 and hubby in a small town, I've travelled the world, and basically have no worries. I wonder who's happier now? Still looking for "wife number two" though...
 
2004-06-25 01:16:23 AM  
I got married at 31. I was diagnosed with cancer a month later. She stuck by me through 18 months of hell. HELL.

I would kill or die for her. Thank GOD I got married. Thank GOD I waited to find the right person.

Oh yeah, and the sex is great and I haven't done laundry in something like five years. (And yes, I take care of other things...)

You know what? Marriage is just as much about yourself as it is about the other person. If not more.

Can't wait to have kids.
 
2004-06-25 07:49:47 AM  
Perhaps i'll take halfjack's advice and make the ring myself.

Yeah. Good luck with that...

But seriously, women have a greater stake in getting into a relationship than men do, as men can walk away but she can end up holding a kid. Therefore, whether it's in the form of a diamond or not, the act of transforming a good part of your personal resources into a gift that you get her to hold in trust, on an instinctive level she knows you're really committed. Not that it proves you love her more, but that you've given her power over some small (financial) vulnerability of your own as symbolic (but inadequate) compensation for her physical vulnerability to ending up alone with your seed, and its considerable drain on her physical resources.

As I said, it's simple biology. Instinct. Dowry has more to do with cultural practices that treat women as property. Gifts of love are pretty universal and likely go all the way back to the days when men would trade a joint of mastodon for ahandful of nuts and berries and some hot cro-mag action.
 
2004-06-25 10:08:53 AM  
Just a comment about diamonds...

I have NEVER liked the idea of purchasing an artificially priced item such as this. In the past I have always stated to my significant other that I will NEVER buy a diamond for them. Some took it fine, others did not. Needless to say, I have never purchased a diamond for my now wife. I am happy to buy a truly rare jewel, such as a nice emerald or such (tanzanite is quite nice). When I asked my wife to marry me, I gave her a ring... a key ring to a 1965 Thunderbird.(seven years ago next month.) She gets far more enjoyment out of that car than any hunk of artificially priced stone would ever give her. (That being said, one of her prized possesions is a large diamond ring that was handed down to her from her grandmother, but I think that's more sentimental than anything..)
 
2004-06-25 11:19:37 AM  
It's all about the timing. I'm 30 and it's seriously starting to cross my mind. While it'll suck to give up the fun of dating different people, who here honestly wants to be the pitiful middle-aged guy at the bar who is always trying to pick up young chicks?

I'm sorry, but you're not cool. You're sad.

Problem is, when I find a nice girl I always blow it. I find some way to get out of it because it scares the bejesus out of me. So, emasculated wuss boy who opens his bank account and has kids he doesn't really want or loser who bounces from woman to woman and looks more and more pathetic as he ages.

Not good choices, people. I want a 3rd option.
 
2004-06-25 11:38:37 AM  
Not good choices, people. I want a 3rd option.

Goats?
 
2004-06-25 12:11:53 PM  
Work, wife, just different forms of enslavement.
 
2004-06-25 01:26:45 PM  
Should I ever find a lass to wed, she'll be getting an opal.

[image from angelfire.com too old to be available]
 
2004-06-25 03:28:52 PM  
My two cents...

I married my high school sweetheart young, at 19yo, after dating for 3 years.(Eloped, I do NOT have the "Princess for a day" mindset, besides not wanting the debt incurred) We were married 3 years before we even thought about having a family. We traveled, talked about what we wanted out of life, got to know each other, got the big fights overwith, and realized how much we love each other. It took 2 long years of timing, charting, and eventually fertility drugs to start our family. I (not knowing what I do know) thought that having children was a right, not a privledge. (that's another rant, for another day)

Today, after 7 years of marriage, and 4 children later, I can honestly say I wouldn't do anything different. (well, maybe not having 4 kids aged 2 and under...that's a little tough)The point (small as it may be) I'm trying to make is...marriages that start young CAN last and be wonderful. One just needs to know themselves and what they want out of life, and find someone else who has the same goals. When you marry young you have PLENTY of time to get to know each other and travel and have fun before you settle into family life. IMHO, it's the only way.
 
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