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(Reuters)   Study says men want to put off marriage until they are ready. Translation: Not until I've banged all the other girls   (story.news.yahoo.com) divider line 153
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5098 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2004 at 6:29 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-06-24 08:10:52 PM
2004-06-24 08:05:39 PM Janusdog

kurfu, dear farkwit, you need to deal with that anger problem.


HA! Must have struck a nerve.

You lose on the grounds of being the first to resort name-calling and making unqualified psychological evaluation.

I win.
;)
 
2004-06-24 08:10:55 PM
Hmm, straight folks realizing marriage as sold is a crock right as gay people are getting into it. Ironic tag, anyone?
 
2004-06-24 08:14:14 PM
halfjack
Janusdog
No man, you misundertood, i think. I meant, How do i let women know that i am capable of a committing to a strong relationship,and in fact have had one, even though theyve never SEEN me in one?


If I may add my two cents, my wife never saw me in a long-term relationship. When we met I was single. What clued her in to my being a good match was who I was as a person, who I was when we were together, and who I was to everyone else. She saw that I was a good person and that I had my act together. We also had many long conversations and that told her even more about me.

Don't psyche yourself out over this. If there are still issues you need to deal with, deal with them. Otherwise, just go in, be yourself, be honest about your past, and don't assume the other person is going to look down on you about it.
 
2004-06-24 08:14:35 PM
2004-06-24 08:08:13 PM hubiestubert

Kurfu is as bitter as a baking soda lollipop...


Not bitter at all.

Janusdog is the one playing victim by complaining about not getting anything when she got half the house. I'm just calling her out on it.
 
2004-06-24 08:16:58 PM
soporific

I've picked this up from not just women I've dated, but also in conversations with chick friends. So it's not that they don't want to date *me* long term.

Other blokes I've talked to have noticed the same thing.

Women in this city (Brisbane, Australia) seem to have hit a point where they can play the field as much as they think guys do, and not be called a slut for doing so. They are taking full advantage of this.

I suspect the only chicks that want to settle down are in church. :>
 
2004-06-24 08:17:47 PM
kuufu
I don't think she's playing victim one bit. I think she's giving a counterexample to a bunch of people who claim that women always walk away with all of the money. She's not complaining about the divorce settlement, she's complaining about farkers misconceptions about divorce settlements.
 
2004-06-24 08:17:50 PM
Janusdog
Office_despot


Thank you. That was some of the most honest and intelligent advice ive gotten from women in a long time.

soporific
Im glad you like it :) I thought of it after listening to Natalie Merchants cover of 'airship' I wasnt actaully thinking of the cost, more of the 'communion of flight'
 
2004-06-24 08:20:27 PM
My parents tried to arrange dates for me when I was a teenager. Besides the creepy factor, the girls they picked were horrible. Either they were plain janes (yeah, I'm no prize, but these girls I wouldn't hit with a two by four.) or they were completely boring, or God help me, they were they were snotty rich biatches that my parents felt were appropriate for someone of my social standing. Yes mom, I love people who judge you based on the label of your designer jeans. Right.

The main criteria of my parents was not the personality or looks, but instead the social standing and wealth of the girls in question. It's all about prestige. Bleaugh.
 
2004-06-24 08:20:29 PM
Um kurfu maybe you should re-read the original post, because Janusdog was certainly not complaining. Boasting, perhaps -- or maybe reflexively defending herself before those Farkers who frequently turn up shouting "gold-digger!" hopped into the thread.

She got out of a bad relationship and took care of herself. What's it to you?
 
2004-06-24 08:22:17 PM
hey Kurfu,

Jeez, man. chill. Lay off of Janusdog. She opened up to you -on fark, for goodness sakes- in order to show that women can be honorable and cool (in as much as EITHER side can be cool) in a divorce.

It sounds like you are really angry or something. Dont take it out on people who dont desrve it, 'kay?
 
2004-06-24 08:26:42 PM
I don't think I was boasting. I might be, but it's unintentional. I do think that people have a sorry idea of what actually happens in a divorce, economically.

I walked away with half of the equity, not the house, which he sold for $100,000 more than we bought it for. He kept it all. My cut was totalling a huge max of $5000, $3000 of which went to divorce costs and $500 to buying myself a bed, since he kept all the furniture. I was working and I needed to relocate. That ate up the rest. I had (have) student loans and was being paid at a postdoctoral residency -- a whole whopping $24,000 for a year's salary.

Not that I should have to justify my finances on Fark. I just think that many many people think women are making out like bandits and believe me, we are not.
 
2004-06-24 08:27:56 PM
Soporific

She saw that I was a good person and that I had my act together. We also had many long conversations and that told her even more about me.

Thanks for the good example, man. If i may ask, define 'act together' was it in a financial sense, i.e. that you had a steady career at the time? Or do you mean in some other sense?
 
2004-06-24 08:30:55 PM
halfjack you're welcome. I was just looking at your Web site -- sometime I might ask you to return the favor and tell me how to "recover" from being a biologist.
 
2004-06-24 08:32:20 PM
halfjack, thanks. :) Just spreading the wuv.
 
2004-06-24 08:42:35 PM
halfjack

Thanks for the good example, man. If i may ask, define 'act together' was it in a financial sense, i.e. that you had a steady career at the time? Or do you mean in some other sense?

We were in college when we met. One thing she quickly noticed about me was that I never complained about being broke. I was never rolling in money, but I was never foolish about it either. I knew how to go without and save up for the big things, and it showed her that I was mature about finances and was capable of long-term thinking.

I took school seriously and graduated on time, but I was able to balance work with having fun, which is essential in a relationship. I treated her well when we were together and treated others well, including waiters in restaraunts. I never abused customer service people.

This is not to say I didn't do some stupid things. I did, and she called me on them. But learned from those mistakes and never repeated them. We had conflict and we resolved it maturely.

It's really the little things that add up to the big things. If you are capable of being in a long-term relationship, it will come out. If she sees that you are a type of person worth being with, then your seven year break from dating won't be a problem.

I wish you the best. Oh, and don't forget to relax. And don't try too hard to impress her either. If you're the genuine article, you'll sell yourself without even trying. I;ve seen it happen.
 
2004-06-24 08:47:02 PM
The trick is to know when you're out of your league with a girl. As soon as you're sure... marry her!

/I did
 
2004-06-24 08:58:56 PM
synik
Women in this city (Brisbane, Australia) seem to have hit a point where they can play the field as much as they think guys do, and not be called a slut for doing so. They are taking full advantage of this.

There you go, then. To be fair, my experience is limited to the USofA and specifically, women from Texas. Texan women can get a bit nutty about getting married, so I shouldn't assume they're like that everywhere. Different country, different culture, different rules.

I suspect the only chicks that want to settle down are in church. :>

Probably. That's where I met my wife. Most of my friends who got married young were Christians, so again that does play a part.
 
2004-06-24 08:59:41 PM
B.P.

Wrong, sorry, you lose.

The divorce rate is NOT 50%. That false information was gathered from a census where there were 2.4 million marriages and 1.2 million divorces. However, the person who got the info didn't take into account the 56 million marriages currently in effect. Therefore, it was only 2%. I have no doubt that the divorce rate is up, but 50% is WAY too high.
 
2004-06-24 09:16:34 PM
office_despot
Wow! im flattered. Its a little out of date; most of my work is for game studios now. As for how you recover, its a long, slow process, not without its pitfalls. Occasionally, my freinds have had to intervene (such as after I had a weekend-long bender in my kitchen trying to extract the blue pigment from pokeberries). My artwork helps, as do production deadlines :).

soporific
Heh. Yeah. Thanks. Good advice. I actually knew that, i think. its just easy to psych yourself out.
 
2004-06-24 09:16:55 PM
For those of you planning to get married, don't be a sucker and get a "diamond engagement ring." Have a little creativity for fark's sakes. The whole diamond bit was invented by deBeers, to, surprise, sell diamonds.

Should I ever find a lass to wed, she'll be getting an opal.
 
2004-06-24 09:22:15 PM
yeah, diamond is not very precious. They shine up pretty well and may accent something, but Im with you, cuprous2,get something unique.
 
2004-06-24 09:26:53 PM
hey, cuprous

when i was with my lady, I made a pair of silver rings, whose decoration, instead of a stone, was a little puzzle lock. so when you took them off, they could be joined together into a little sculpture. Her freinds were jealous for WEEKS :)

Take some silversmithing courses, man. Its not expensive, and you wont regret it.

okay, im giving away ALL my secrets on this thread -i gotta stop before everyone one-ups me.
 
2004-06-24 09:32:26 PM
I made my girlfriend's engagment ring from the crushed meta tarsals of my defeated enemies.

ok, well, actually my defeated enemies just came from a bucket of KFC.
 
2004-06-24 09:33:33 PM
halfjack

If you haven't dated in 7 years, keep in mind that the going could be bumpy for a while -- not because there's anything at all wrong with you, but because meeting new people and going on dates leaves everyone with a few bruises.

(such as after I had a weekend-long bender in my kitchen trying to extract the blue pigment from pokeberries)

Hahaha -- yes! Like the cicada photography relapse bender here.
 
2004-06-24 09:33:36 PM
Ok, actually, I'm not engaged.
 
2004-06-24 09:35:10 PM
Am I relapsing again if I ask chickenfriedmonkey what chicken FEET were doing in his KFC? Usually they just have wings in there, right?
 
2004-06-24 09:36:00 PM
Oh yea... ok, it was phalanges then.
 
2004-06-24 09:36:44 PM
(I don't know if that's spelled right, or if chickens even have phalanges.)
 
2004-06-24 09:36:56 PM
Well, you could get away with metacarpals...
 
2004-06-24 09:38:02 PM
(I don't know if that's spelled right, or if chickens even have phalanges.)

Yes you did and yes they do.
Now stop it, you ARE giving me a relapse.
 
2004-06-24 09:47:22 PM
cuprous2
I'm sure she'll be the hit of the Renaissance Fair.
 
2004-06-24 10:16:07 PM
Have a little creativity for fark's sakes. The whole diamond bit was invented by deBeers, to, surprise, sell diamonds.

True or not, giving a valuable gift upon engagement is a traditional way of showing a woman not only that you have significant resources, but also that you are willing to commit them (and therefore yourself) to her. Sounds primitive, but my wife's a both white collar professional making a good living and an ardent feminist, and yet she still took the bait. Take it from someone who managed to marry a prime catch (hot, smart, tough, independent, fun, etc.) -- it pays to understand some simple biology.

/been reading a lot of Jared Diamond lately...
 
2004-06-24 10:16:58 PM
2004-06-24 08:26:42 PM Janusdog

I walked away with half of the equity, not the house, which he sold for $100,000 more than we bought it for. He kept it all. My cut was totalling a huge max of $5000, $3000 of


That doesn't sound right... How could the house sell for $100K more than what you bought it for, and %50 of the equity was only $5K?

You should have gotten half the value of everything (furniture?) that was purchased during the marriage, and also paid for half of whatever debt was incurred during the marriage (net-value of the marriage). Each of you should have walked away with whatever assets you had before you were married. That's fair.

Not that I should have to justify my finances on Fark.

No you certainly do no thave to justify yourself here. However, you did intiate the discussion, and did not have to reply to any of my questions, yes?

Someone asked -- what's it to me? Nothing. I didn't start this conversation. I never called her a gold digger. I did ask questions about her statements. That's how a conversation works, people.

Sheez. Lighten up yourself, dude(s).
 
2004-06-24 10:19:07 PM
And, in case you were curious, that is not a photo of me in my bio. It's a little in joke for my fellow Tenacious D fans (and an insult to latter-day Black Sabbath fans).
 
2004-06-24 10:39:13 PM
I got the equity of the house at the time of the divorce, not what he sold it for a couple of years later.
 
2004-06-24 10:40:52 PM
To clarify, half of what we put into it, not including the parts of the down payment his father put into it.

Bottom line: Me poor. Him fine.
 
2004-06-24 10:57:36 PM
mkreamer
I'm sure she'll be the hit of the Renaissance Fair.

Still paying off that "two months salary"?
 
2004-06-24 11:08:31 PM
hey, Office_despot

seriosuly? you too? man! its rough isnt it! what field were you in, and what field are you in now?
 
2004-06-24 11:11:32 PM
cuprous2
Not at all ... I'm one of the 22%; just good at the "I can recognize that dork in four words or less" game.
 
2004-06-24 11:19:10 PM
adman12
it pays to understand some simple biology.

Well, I'm not going to bust on you or your wife, but I still think it's pretty lame as a whole. How many guys have gone into hock to buy an extra half carat as if that makes their love anymore genuine? Personally, I think it's both cheap and sad.

Like I said, the diamond engagement ring is, and always will be, nothing more than a wildly successfull marketing ploy on the part of debeers. You can read all about it here.

This is the meat of the article though:

Although it could do little about the state of the economy, N. W. Ayer suggested that through a well-orchestrated advertising and public-relations campaign it could have a significant impact on the "social attitudes of the public at large and thereby channel American spending toward larger and more expensive diamonds instead of "competitive luxuries." Specifically, the Ayer study stressed the need to strengthen the association in the public's mind of diamonds with romance. Since "young men buy over 90% of all engagement rings" it would be crucial to inculcate in them the idea that diamonds were a gift of love: the larger and finer the diamond, the greater the expression of love. Similarly, young women had to be encouraged to view diamonds as an integral part of any romantic courtship.

Get the idea? I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about their investment, but the point remains that a diamond engagement ring is a concocted tradition. The whole argument that there's a historical precedent for a man to give a woman something valuable upon their marriage is somewhat false. Look up the definition of "dowry."

Although, I suppose, at this point, since nobody really bothers to study the diamond engagement ring's origins, it may as well be accepted into society as a norm... which it practically is. I'm still gunning for the opal though. Perhaps i'll take halfjack's advice and make the ring myself.
 
2004-06-25 12:07:00 AM
"I can see myself getting married, having kids. But a tattoo? That's so permanent."

apologies to some comedian
 
2004-06-25 12:07:25 AM
Personal experience and general observation has shown me that women cheat and lie far more than men ever conceive of doing. But, for a woman it is always rationalized and forgiven (if not outright encouraged), while men are considered slime for doing the same thing.

Examples: Meg Ryan. Does anyone have any doubts that if her husband started three-holing one of his female costars the press would have compared him to Hitler? Meg, on the other hand, gets it from "bad boy" Russel Crowe, and the magazines talk about she has found a new love (apparently, only women find new love) and we should all be happy for her. Or take Tom Cruise (please, take him away and drown his scrawny butt). He gets vilified for getting bored with his current, aging, babe wife and trades her in for a new model. Had Nicole started blowing one of her costars I'm sure all would have been forgiven, and Tom would be villified for not making her life perfect.

Women are genetically insane, boorish, and nowhere near as fascinating to talk to as they like to seem. There are a very few exceptions, but cannot be predicted statistically.
 
2004-06-25 12:23:44 AM
Ugh, don't get me started on debeers. I can't wait for those new manufactured yet real diamonds hit the market in force.
 
2004-06-25 12:24:27 AM
LordZorch apparently needs a hug. And needs to read "The Scarlet Letter."
 
2004-06-25 12:49:12 AM
cynik, you're right, I think. I got burned by a 23 y/o ho who decided a stable relationship wasn't her thing anymore. Now she's married - go figure. Seems like that 21->25 age is reserved for shagging these days... Live and learn, and to each their own. She's got a 9-5 and hubby in a small town, I've travelled the world, and basically have no worries. I wonder who's happier now? Still looking for "wife number two" though...
 
2004-06-25 01:16:23 AM
I got married at 31. I was diagnosed with cancer a month later. She stuck by me through 18 months of hell. HELL.

I would kill or die for her. Thank GOD I got married. Thank GOD I waited to find the right person.

Oh yeah, and the sex is great and I haven't done laundry in something like five years. (And yes, I take care of other things...)

You know what? Marriage is just as much about yourself as it is about the other person. If not more.

Can't wait to have kids.
 
2004-06-25 07:49:47 AM
Perhaps i'll take halfjack's advice and make the ring myself.

Yeah. Good luck with that...

But seriously, women have a greater stake in getting into a relationship than men do, as men can walk away but she can end up holding a kid. Therefore, whether it's in the form of a diamond or not, the act of transforming a good part of your personal resources into a gift that you get her to hold in trust, on an instinctive level she knows you're really committed. Not that it proves you love her more, but that you've given her power over some small (financial) vulnerability of your own as symbolic (but inadequate) compensation for her physical vulnerability to ending up alone with your seed, and its considerable drain on her physical resources.

As I said, it's simple biology. Instinct. Dowry has more to do with cultural practices that treat women as property. Gifts of love are pretty universal and likely go all the way back to the days when men would trade a joint of mastodon for ahandful of nuts and berries and some hot cro-mag action.
 
2004-06-25 10:08:53 AM
Just a comment about diamonds...

I have NEVER liked the idea of purchasing an artificially priced item such as this. In the past I have always stated to my significant other that I will NEVER buy a diamond for them. Some took it fine, others did not. Needless to say, I have never purchased a diamond for my now wife. I am happy to buy a truly rare jewel, such as a nice emerald or such (tanzanite is quite nice). When I asked my wife to marry me, I gave her a ring... a key ring to a 1965 Thunderbird.(seven years ago next month.) She gets far more enjoyment out of that car than any hunk of artificially priced stone would ever give her. (That being said, one of her prized possesions is a large diamond ring that was handed down to her from her grandmother, but I think that's more sentimental than anything..)
 
2004-06-25 11:19:37 AM
It's all about the timing. I'm 30 and it's seriously starting to cross my mind. While it'll suck to give up the fun of dating different people, who here honestly wants to be the pitiful middle-aged guy at the bar who is always trying to pick up young chicks?

I'm sorry, but you're not cool. You're sad.

Problem is, when I find a nice girl I always blow it. I find some way to get out of it because it scares the bejesus out of me. So, emasculated wuss boy who opens his bank account and has kids he doesn't really want or loser who bounces from woman to woman and looks more and more pathetic as he ages.

Not good choices, people. I want a 3rd option.
 
2004-06-25 11:38:37 AM
Not good choices, people. I want a 3rd option.

Goats?
 
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