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(independent)   The facts behind Black Hawk Down.   (independent.co.uk) divider line 637
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12114 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2002 at 1:01 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-01-18 01:04:07 AM
What a crappy "pat yourself on the back" excuse for a movie.
 
cez
2002-01-18 01:05:19 AM
as a helicopter, i find this offensive.
 
2002-01-18 01:05:34 AM
http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/blackhawkdown/ is better.
 
2002-01-18 01:05:57 AM
I want the facts behind Jerry Bruckheimer actually being Satan.
 
2002-01-18 01:06:14 AM
Fact 1: It is a movie, and a dramatization at that.

I can't wait to watch this flamewar. *Grabs popcorn*
 
2002-01-18 01:06:28 AM
I mean, is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of all these "war" movies with virtually the same cast? I dont know all of their names, but I know one of them is Ben Affleck, then theres the other guys fro Goodwill Hunting. I keep hoping that they die first each time.
 
2002-01-18 01:06:28 AM
And I'm not refering to the hockey player Miroslav Satan.
 
2002-01-18 01:07:47 AM
Did Harmonica or Rei write this article? Sounds like them.
 
2002-01-18 01:07:55 AM
This is one of the most poorly written articles I have ever read.

The author confuses authors, gets his facts wrong and generally just has a big farking axe to grind. He wanted to write and article to bash the United States and looked only for what he thought he needed to do so.

The use of scare quotes illustrates this. Delta Force is an elite force, not an "elite force".

The result is a poor, unintelligent, and stupid article. He should be shot in the face. And so should Buufoo.
 
2002-01-18 01:09:10 AM
This was the worst article I've ever read.
 
2002-01-18 01:09:24 AM
Never trust a movie to tell the whole true story.. it just doesn't happen.
 
2002-01-18 01:10:11 AM
What have I been saying about US foreign policy?

It's all oil oil oil.
 
2002-01-18 01:12:47 AM
Sang-Froid, its true that it wasn't a writing masterpeice but would you say the same thing if it was singing the praises of the USA's military history?
 
2002-01-18 01:14:24 AM
This article is terrible.
 
2002-01-18 01:15:01 AM
First off, the teaser on TV called the sommali's "rebels".. What?!
WWe're not all farkin stoopid! don't treat us like we are.

Until we're not watching.
 
2002-01-18 01:15:22 AM
What have I been saying about US foreign policy?

It's all oil oil oil.


Yes, because there's so much oil in Afghanistan. And Somalia is one of the world's largest exporters, too. Moron.
 
2002-01-18 01:15:35 AM
Oh my God, Mr.Bojangles, that was going to be my name but it told me that someone else had it.
So we finally meet.
 
2002-01-18 01:16:03 AM
watching people try to have an intelligent debate on anything here is just funny enough to justify the intense hatred of mankind it arouses in me.

this'll be a good one.
 
2002-01-18 01:16:31 AM
How about I should a load in your face Sang-Froid? I dont care about this one single article, the facts are out there. And now they are trying to glorify a farking massacre of civilians. Its funny in the trailer how theres an oncoming horde of armed Somalis when in fact most of the dead were civilians. Im not anti-american by any measure, but I sure as hell am not gonna sit back and let Bush and his pals shove their dicks down my mouth as you seem to be doing. Money runs the world my friend, and if those oil companies hadn't lobbied Bush for protection in Somalia then there wouldn't have been any action there I can guarantee you.
 
2002-01-18 01:16:45 AM
i didn't even read it. all i can think about is how three civillians and the village chicken got killed by a dirty GOP sponsored helicopter crashing to earth because the GOP wanted it that way.

i see both sides of GOP and Dems... and even understand PC... but come the fark on-

i'm a jerk.
 
2002-01-18 01:16:46 AM
"Aideed wasn't there, but the American troops became confused."

became confused?..one of their farking choppers was shot out of the sky...i would say scared is more like it...also the majority unarmed people that were shot were heading for weapons from those that had been shot...granted i'm sure some innocents were killed at the start of the fighting..but after the first 15 minutes of that firefight the only somalis still around were those that wanted to be..
 
2002-01-18 01:17:50 AM
Buufoo:
Who was president in 1993?
 
2002-01-18 01:17:58 AM
Wow!! After reading that article I have changed my mind about the US. The US must be a bunch of money hungry sadists that enjoy beating and shooting unarmed Africans that were minding their own business and bothering no one. It was obviously a well thought-out and completely bias-free article. The author seems to have a complete grasp of the facts and no leftward leanings or axes to grind at all!!! I am so glad that I have been enlightened so that I may now be bias free, too.
 
2002-01-18 01:18:13 AM
Johhny weasel-
Yea, this one is eaiser to read . According to me. Everyone interested in this should read it. It's Mark Bowden's Pulitzer Prize winning story...
 
2002-01-18 01:18:36 AM
"Yes, because there's so much oil in Afghanistan. And Somalia is one of the world's largest exporters, too. Moron."

Read the article, dumbshiat. They were there to protect US oil company interests. Duhhh. Afghanistan? Ever hear of the Unocal oil pipeline to the caspian oil reserves? Coincidence that Unocal whined to congress they couldn't get their precious oil pipeline working til the Taliban were ousted? Coincidence that US told Pakistan in early 2001 they were going to oust the taliban by October?

Duhhh. Learn something. Get an education. Stop being a brainwashed dolt.
 
2002-01-18 01:19:11 AM
I love non-biased articles! I'm so glad that people can write about a paticular subject giving us facts without pushing their own poltical views.
 
2002-01-18 01:20:05 AM
Why do you ask? The conflict sure as hell didn't start that year.
 
2002-01-18 01:21:22 AM
Stop being a brainwashed dolt.

Yes, I should stop being a brainwashed dolt and read obviously biased articles such as this.
 
2002-01-18 01:23:04 AM
Sorry Buufoo, I don't argue with people from California.
 
2002-01-18 01:23:28 AM
"Yes, I should stop being a brainwashed dolt and read obviously biased articles such as this."

You deny the facts that they were there to protect US oil interests? You deny the facts of civillian murders? Irrespective of the slant of this article, the facts are there. Bury your head in the sand. Boo hoo, our precious government is corrupt and you can't handle the truth.
 
2002-01-18 01:24:27 AM
They were there to protect US oil company interests.

More like they were there because of a massive public outcry. A starving child was shown on television, and people screamed to DO SOMETHING@!!!! SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Any oil considerations were secondary.
 
2002-01-18 01:24:41 AM
Yes, everything the US does is about oil.

We fought WWII over Germany's precious, precious oil. Vietnam was about the oil. The only reason we even have a military is to protect our oil resources. We landed on the moon to tap the sweet, sweet inner oil core of the moon. Do you think we would even have a government if we didn't have to worry about oil?

In fact, everything Americans do is about oil.

When I went on a trip of Jaimaica over the summer, you know what I brought back as a souvenier? A gallon of crude oil. I buy oil with what's leftover in my paycheck. I just like to keep around the house. It makes me feel good.
 
2002-01-18 01:26:34 AM
Straw men arguments. I don't see anyone arguing the facts.
 
2002-01-18 01:28:42 AM
I like how this article estabilshes a link between trying to find oil that isn't there, and the US entering the country because of oil. Its a weak link, I don't buy it, and I'm liberal leaning.

Stupid me I guess, I bought into that massive crisis caused by various warlords stealing food. As well as the US' first wide use of non-lethal weapons.
 
2002-01-18 01:30:39 AM
A picture is worth a thousand words...

 
2002-01-18 01:33:24 AM
Hey guys, download the short film BIRDS, which is shown just before Monsters, Inc. See this link, its 24mb!

http://teron.perm.ru/files/video/ForTheBirds.mpeg
 
2002-01-18 01:36:21 AM
Nice pic. and we should believe anything that comes from http://www.freedomdomain.com/welcome.htm why again? I don't know who's site this is but I think their tinfoil hat is too tight.
 
2002-01-18 01:37:56 AM
The fact that I linked the pic off of that site doesn't mean anything, its all over the place. You can do a search for it yourself if you want. The damn canadians took the pic themselves, some were even tried in court. I think your the one whose got their hat on a little tight.
 
2002-01-18 01:38:09 AM
Korzeniowski, I think the problem is that you can't accept the government is not as corrupt as you wish it were. Nobody in government is evil. Especially not Bush. He's just a dumb Texan.

I deny that the anybody who died on that fateful mission had absolutely anything to do with oil, or with the fact that these men were racist, as the author of this poorly written article claims. Delta Force and the Rangers consist of blacks and Native Americans as well. In fact, the military is one of the few places in America where blacks rank about statistically equal to whites.

People who died on that mission died because of circumstances that day that boiled over. An angry mob of civilians, many with weapons, gathered, and not in a peaceful fashion. People died. The civilians brought it on themselves; they crowded into the area. When your life is on the line, you do what you need to do to survive. Civilians die in war. Especially in urban fighting. If they valued their own lives, they would have hidden inside. Instead they put themselves in a situation where they were hard to distinguish from genuine foe. I'd like to see what you would've done in the Ranger's situation. I suppose you suggest they rolled over and died?

Mr. Bojangles, if this article had been as ridiculously pro-American as it actually was anti-American, it would not bother as much, but it would still vex me significantly, and I would voice that. The reason is that people who are overly anti-American are generally severely unpleasant twats, while people who are overly pro-American tend to be good folk.
 
2002-01-18 01:38:46 AM
did the author of that article even READ Black Hawk Down?
 
2002-01-18 01:39:08 AM
I don't see anyone arguing the facts.

Ok, we'll argue the facts.

You deny the facts that they were there to protect US oil interests?

Yes, I deny that. Like I said, we were there because of the public outcry. Won't someone PLEEEASE think of the children!

You deny the facts of civillian murders?

I don't deny that civillians have died, and that it is tragic that they have. Calling them murders is another thing. Why don't you just call Americans a bunch of cold-blooded war-mongers? I doubt that they were all civillians, or even that most of them were civillians. It's hard to tell from an article such as this.

Boo hoo, our precious government is corrupt and you can't handle the truth.

Like I said, we're just a bunch of oil-hungry, cold-blooded war-mongers who like to kill civillians. Excuse me while I vomit.
 
2002-01-18 01:40:10 AM
Sang-Froid,

You know the US didn't et into WW2 till the end of 1941, 2 years after the war had started. Up until then it didn't affect them and they were making farkloads out of it so couldn't give a fark about what the Japanese or Germans were doing to somebody else, somewehre else.

Unless it affects American interests directly, the US does not act. The US interests in Somalia was oil, that's why they went there and not any of the hundreds of other palces theat could have used aid.

That's the US's prerogative of course.
 
2002-01-18 01:40:11 AM
That picture reminds me of pictures of inground swimming pools that are supposed to be proof of the concentration camps in Nazi Germany just being vacation resorts.

One thing that caught my eye in that pic, the guy on the left seems to be wearing jeans with fatigue chaps on. Those must be standard military issue chaps.
 
2002-01-18 01:40:55 AM
I wouldn't wipe my ass with that idiotic excuse for news.
 
2002-01-18 01:41:02 AM
Thats good for you Not_Eginerd.
 
2002-01-18 01:42:12 AM
i would like anyone to name me a country that the US has no companies or interests in it whatsoever...the first thing in are generally the oil companies...it used to be pan-am..but the good ol' days are long gone...anyway...at the time we went into somalia..there was no established gov't...the people were hungry and were being murdered by their own...we went in to protect and feed the civilian population..and to go after the warlords we didn't care for...we were in there to serve our own means?..yes..but a country that doesn't look after its interests is a poor country indeed..were we looking for oil?..maybe...but that is an ulterior motive...again for our own interests...its not a bad thing to take care of oneself...
 
2002-01-18 01:44:33 AM
Unless it affects American interests directly, the US does not act. The US interests in Somalia was oil, that's why they went there and not any of the hundreds of other palces theat could have used aid.

You mean UP UNTIL we entered WWII, we were an isolationist country. If it didn't affect us, we didn't act. Now our attitude has changed. We feel we are the world's "policemen", if you will. Some hate us for that, too. I guess it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Maybe we should just pull out of everywhere, and only interact with ourselves, and maybe the Brits and Canadians once in a while. Then everyone would be happy.
 
2002-01-18 01:45:15 AM
According to an article published in the Online Edition of the New York Post for July 19, 1997, UN peacekeeping forces in Somalia committed atrocities. The following were among the things reportedly done to the Somali.



Belgian troops roasted a child over a fire. The photograph that was published showed the Belgian troops grinning.


Belgian troops forced fed a Somali child a mixture of salt water, vomit, and worms.


UN troops raped the Somalis.


Italian troops applied electrodes to the hands and genitals of a naked Somali soldier.


Somalis were denied food and water, had the soles of their feet burned, and were hurled against razor wire.


A Canadian parachute unit tortured and then killed a Somali teenager and then photographed themselves by the body.


The Post article did not estimate what percentage of the 75,000 UN troops were involved in the atrocities.

The Dessert News (Utah) reported in its Sunday edition for June 15, 1997 that "Two Italian generals resigned their posts Saturday amid a growing scandal linking Italian peacekeepers to the torture of Somalian villagers." The two generals were in charge of the Italian contingent of the peacekeepers. The article reported that Italian and German soldiers took revenge for the death of an Italian soldier by firing "machine guns and launched grenades at the town of Jalalaxi for an hour even though the villagers had nothing to do with the lieutenant's death".

In an article on June 14, 1997, the Dessert News, using information from the New York Times News Service, reported that photographs of the atrocities were causing " wave of soul-searching" in Italy.
 
2002-01-18 01:46:30 AM
Buufoo:
True. I had not seen that pic before. I hope that the people involved got what they deserved.
I still think the author of that site needs to put down the bong and get a little professional help.
 
2002-01-18 01:50:45 AM
I agree Jestyr. Im not a deranged left wing nut by any means, I just try to go by the facts. If you asked me right now I would tell you that I support the actions in Afghanistan. But I also know that the government is comprised of a bunch of very rich, elitist people who look out for their own. Yes there are good people there too but you cannot take the actions of the government on faith alone.
 
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