The MCSO never did think the laws applied to them

FTC:

JR // Dec 1, 2009 at 12:54 AM

Even after they brake the rules. Amazing ignorance from the public.


I just broke my hand facepalming.

El_Frijole_Blanco: The MCSO never did think the laws applied to them

I think they have an unpleasant surprise waiting for them.

He's not even a cop, he's just another mouth breathing jail guard.

I live in Maricopa County.

But I didn't hear about this and having read the article I don't really care.

eyehate: But I didn't hear about this and having read the article I don't really care.

He walked over and just rifled through and took files from the defense attorneys stack of papers while she was deliberating, so now this guy will have what he needs to get a conviction tossed out and also more proof as to the corruption rampant under the Arpio Thomas team

It's probably only because of Sheriff Joe that the guy wasn't arrested on the spot the first time around. Of course if Joe wants to fight it, he can enjoy being found in contempt himself.

Also Sheriff Joe? Don't fark with a judge. Just, don't.

/why do I get the feeling the man is too stupid to realize that?

eyehate: I live in Maricopa County.

My condolences.

As a Maricopa resident, I can't say that I'm all that surprised. Well, except that the Judge didn't go buck wild.

The only "security concern" that there was here, is that the young man should have never been near the podiums in the first place. Getting a case thrown out because of procedural hinkiness doesn't endear you to your Sheriff nor the DA.

El_Frijole_Blanco: He walked over and just rifled through and took files from the defense attorneys stack of papers while she was deliberating

Hey, you don't know. Security of that facility is his primary concern, one of those papers could have been a bomb.

If you live in Maricopa County, you may want to move to a place where the Wild West is a tourist attraction as opposed to a way of life

Fixed.

If the judge does nothing, the next time will be a true circus.

If the judge does something, it'll be less hilarious but happen sooner.

I'm torn about this.

hubiestubert: . Getting a case thrown out because of procedural hinkiness doesn't endear you to your Sheriff nor the DA.

Actually I think this is exactly the kind of thing that would endear him to this Sheriff.

I don't think Old Joe gets to walk away from this one. that guy is now in contempt of court. And I don't think the court system can let it go.

One day His Royal Toughness Joe is going to get bit on the ass by his bullshiat...

Can't wait for the shiatstorm circus that happens when it does.

baka-san: One day His Royal Toughness Joe is going to get bit on the ass by his bullshiat...

Can't wait for the shiatstorm circus that happens when it does.

Ok, so what happens now? I mean, joe told his employeed to ignore the judge and said minion followed Joe's orders. He is clearly in contempt of court. Joe might be as well, but that's a seperate issue. The main point here is that the minion is now in contempt. Based on my admittedly flawed and outsiders view of the law, that should be a straight shot to county lock up for the minion, right?

"We sleep peacefully at night, cradled by the big strong hands of America"

And wrong thread......

Weaver95: Ok, so what happens now? I mean, joe told his employeed to ignore the judge and said minion followed Joe's orders. He is clearly in contempt of court. Joe might be as well, but that's a seperate issue. The main point here is that the minion is now in contempt. Based on my admittedly flawed and outsiders view of the law, that should be a straight shot to county lock up for the minion, right?



The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

I think an outside agency needs to be the one in charge of this. Does AZ even have an SBI? Why aren't they on this?

cannotsuggestaname: The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

I think an outside agency needs to be the one in charge of this. Does AZ even have an SBI? Why aren't they on this?

So if Sheriff Joe refuses to obey the law and ignores the direct order of a judge..what then? does the state government jump his shiat or does the Fed get to tap dance on his head?

Weaver95: Ok, so what happens now? I mean, joe told his employeed to ignore the judge and said minion followed Joe's orders. He is clearly in contempt of court. Joe might be as well, but that's a seperate issue. The main point here is that the minion is now in contempt. Based on my admittedly flawed and outsiders view of the law, that should be a straight shot to county lock up for the minion, right?

Yep. Minion goes to jail, no hearing, no trial, until he satisfies the contempt charge from the judge. Theoretically, he could bring a habeas petition... but no judge is going to say that they can't hold people in contempt.
Joe isn't just up against one judge... he's up against the entire judicial branch on this one.

cannotsuggestaname: The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

The judge can put the minion in a holding cell in the courtroom.
Alternately, if the judge orders the minion held and Joe refuses, the judge can order Joe held.
And if Joe decides that he's the Sheriff and he's going to refuse to follow what the judge says, then some nice men in black uniforms from the FBI come for a well-armed visit.

Theaetetus: Weaver95: Ok, so what happens now? I mean, joe told his employeed to ignore the judge and said minion followed Joe's orders. He is clearly in contempt of court. Joe might be as well, but that's a seperate issue. The main point here is that the minion is now in contempt. Based on my admittedly flawed and outsiders view of the law, that should be a straight shot to county lock up for the minion, right?

Yep. Minion goes to jail, no hearing, no trial, until he satisfies the contempt charge from the judge. Theoretically, he could bring a habeas petition... but no judge is going to say that they can't hold people in contempt.
Joe isn't just up against one judge... he's up against the entire judicial branch on this one.

Joe runs the jail.

Court: Minion, go to jail, do not pass go.
Joe: Minion is out on his own recognizance as part of my 'Cops don't go to jail' program, also he's still on the job, working in the Courtroom.

er, holding cell in the courthouse, obviously.

Theaetetus: Joe isn't just up against one judge... he's up against the entire judicial branch on this one.

So if the judge doesn't back down - and it looks like the judge is hanging tight - then the minion gets to go to county lockup. So what happens if/when Joe decides NOT to arrest the minion or put him in jail?

Theaetetus: cannotsuggestaname: The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

The judge can put the minion in a holding cell in the courtroom.
Alternately, if the judge orders the minion held and Joe refuses, the judge can order Joe held.
And if Joe decides that he's the Sheriff and he's going to refuse to follow what the judge says, then some nice men in black uniforms from the FBI come for a well-armed visit.

State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

netweavr: Joe runs the jail.

Court: Minion, go to jail, do not pass go.
Joe: Minion is out on his own recognizance as part of my 'Cops don't go to jail' program, also he's still on the job, working in the Courtroom.

Judge: You don't get "out on recognizance" for contempt. You don't get convicted, you don't get tried, you don't even get charged. You go to jail, and Joe, you can go to jail, too, for interfering with the operation of my courtroom. And if you refuse to lock yourself up, then I make a call to the State Police.

Theaetetus: netweavr: Joe runs the jail.

Court: Minion, go to jail, do not pass go.
Joe: Minion is out on his own recognizance as part of my 'Cops don't go to jail' program, also he's still on the job, working in the Courtroom.

Judge: You don't get "out on recognizance" for contempt. You don't get convicted, you don't get tried, you don't even get charged. You go to jail, and Joe, you can go to jail, too, for interfering with the operation of my courtroom. And if you refuse to lock yourself up, then I make a call to the State Police.

There's the path I was looking for.

netweavr: Theaetetus: cannotsuggestaname: The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

The judge can put the minion in a holding cell in the courtroom.
Alternately, if the judge orders the minion held and Joe refuses, the judge can order Joe held.
And if Joe decides that he's the Sheriff and he's going to refuse to follow what the judge says, then some nice men in black uniforms from the FBI come for a well-armed visit.

State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

That's what I thought - the state gets first crack at Joe. But I don't know if the state government will go after the guy. from what I hear, Sheriff Joe has a nice little graft and corruption scheme going right straight up the line into the state government. all rumors, of course. But it fits with his small town/boss hogg attitude.

netweavr: State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

Not necessarily... If there's a federal law involving court procedure (and there is), then the FBI could claim federal jurisdiction.

Theaetetus: netweavr: State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

Not necessarily... If there's a federal law involving court procedure (and there is), then the FBI could claim federal jurisdiction.

Joe better hope he doesn't end up in Federal custody. I don't think they'd stop with just the one investigation...they might keep digging 'till they found something really dirty on him.

$10 says this ends in a tense standoff with state or federal agents vs. Joe and his posse comeandstopus.

Theaetetus: netweavr: State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

Not necessarily... If there's a federal law involving court procedure (and there is), then the FBI could claim federal jurisdiction.

Well, allow me to hedge... I'm not talking about the Fed Rules of Civil or Criminal Procedure here... I'm thinking of other federal statutes relating to courtrooms in general. May apply, but an argument could be made that it wouldn't.

Theaetetus: Theaetetus: netweavr: State issue, FBI can't get involved unless the State asks.

Not necessarily... If there's a federal law involving court procedure (and there is), then the FBI could claim federal jurisdiction.

Well, allow me to hedge... I'm not talking about the Fed Rules of Civil or Criminal Procedure here... I'm thinking of other federal statutes relating to courtrooms in general. May apply, but an argument could be made that it wouldn't.

It'd be new to me if a Federal Court could walk into a State Court issue without being prompted. Then again, times are strange.

Also, I'd put money on the Feds trying to stay out of this for political reasons.

Blues_X: $10 says this ends in a tense standoff with state or federal agents vs. Joe and his posse comeandstopus.

one can only hope

Okay, rather than discussing hypotheticals, here's the relevant statutes... Have at 'em:
12-861. Criminal contempt defined

A person who wilfully disobeys a lawful writ, process, order or judgment of a superior court by doing an act or thing therein or thereby forbidden, if the act or thing done also constitutes a criminal offense, shall be proceeded against for contempt as provided in sections 12-862 and 12-863.

12-862. Order to show cause; service; return; attachment of person or sequestration of property

C. If the person allegedly in contempt fails or refuses to make return to the order, a warrant of arrest may issue directing the sheriff or any constable of the county where the person charged resides or may be found, to arrest him and bring him before the court at a time and place directed by the court, and such person may be required to give bail for his attendance at the trial and his submission to final judgment of the court.

Oooooh... Does Joe have a constable who wants to suddenly make a national name for himself?

Meanwhile:
12-863. Trial; classification; appeal

A. The trial as provided in section 12-862 may be by the court, or, upon demand of the person allegedly in contempt, shall be by a jury as upon a trial for a misdemeanor.

B. Any person found in contempt is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

C. The fine shall be paid to the clerk of the court, or to the party injured by the act constituting the contempt, or may be apportioned where more than one party is damaged.

D. An appeal may be taken as in criminal cases and the appeal shall stay execution of the sentence and the person found guilty of contempt, if sentenced to imprisonment, shall be admitted to bail.

So, yes, he can be out on bail... bail set by the judge, mind you. Say, one BILLION dollars!

And Joe can be up for it too:
12-864. Direct or constructive contempts; punishment

Contempts committed in the presence of the court or so near thereto as to obstruct the administration of justice, and contempts committed by failure to obey a lawful writ, process, order, judgment of the court, and all other contempts not specifically embraced within this article may be punished in conformity to the practice and usage of the common law.

so basically Joe has backed a losing horse, is that a fair assumption? based on what Theaetetus posted it doesn't seem like Joe has any way outta this one.

Weaver95: so basically Joe has backed a losing horse, is that a fair assumption? based on what Theaetetus posted it doesn't seem like Joe has any way outta this one.

He never had any way outta this one. Well, he has one-way. Political office and influence to get the judge removed.

netweavr: Weaver95: so basically Joe has backed a losing horse, is that a fair assumption? based on what Theaetetus posted it doesn't seem like Joe has any way outta this one.

He never had any way outta this one. Well, he has one-way. Political office and influence to get the judge removed.

yeah, but if Joe tries his usual asinine methods while the ENTIRE COUNTRY is watching, he's going to have a problem. The only thing I can see that'd get Joe outta this one is to do what the judge says and toss the minion into a jail cell for a couple/few days.

Then he can wait for the nation to forget about the incident and arrange for the judge to be caught with a kilo of heroin and a couple dead hookers.

Weaver95: netweavr: Weaver95: so basically Joe has backed a losing horse, is that a fair assumption? based on what Theaetetus posted it doesn't seem like Joe has any way outta this one.

He never had any way outta this one. Well, he has one-way. Political office and influence to get the judge removed.

yeah, but if Joe tries his usual asinine methods while the ENTIRE COUNTRY is watching, he's going to have a problem. The only thing I can see that'd get Joe outta this one is to do what the judge says and toss the minion into a jail cell for a couple/few days.

Then he can wait for the nation to forget about the incident and arrange for the judge to be caught with a kilo of heroin and a couple dead hookers.

Oh! He could arrest/detain the Judge on some trumped up charge forcing the Judge to miss the Court-date due.

/ Yes, I'm just farking around.

Holy shiat this has"haha" written all over it.

netweavr: Oh! He could arrest/detain the Judge on some trumped up charge forcing the Judge to miss the Court-date due.

/ Yes, I'm just farking around.

From what i've heard of this guy, he might just try something like that.

Came for the H.I. McDunnough reference. Leaving satisfied.

netweavr: Oh! He could arrest/detain the Judge on some trumped up charge forcing the Judge to miss the Court-date due.

/ Yes, I'm just farking around.

More likely then most people probably believe...

Weaver95: netweavr: Oh! He could arrest/detain the Judge on some trumped up charge forcing the Judge to miss the Court-date due.

/ Yes, I'm just farking around.

From what i've heard of this guy, he might just try something like that.

I can't find it, but I believe there was a story about a judge who got into some fight with Joe, and shortly thereafter retired and moved his entire family out of state. Anyone heard of it?

The cop's kinda hot.

I mean, he should keep his hot little hands out of other people's legal documents!

Theaetetus: Weaver95: netweavr: Oh! He could arrest/detain the Judge on some trumped up charge forcing the Judge to miss the Court-date due.

/ Yes, I'm just farking around.

From what i've heard of this guy, he might just try something like that.

I can't find it, but I believe there was a story about a judge who got into some fight with Joe, and shortly thereafter retired and moved his entire family out of state. Anyone heard of it?

Nope, not heard that one. But if true, i'd like to know the details.

Theaetetus: cannotsuggestaname: The problem with that is that Joe runs the jail and has said he will challenge a contempt order, which means he won't jail his own employee.

The judge can put the minion in a holding cell in the courtroom.
Alternately, if the judge orders the minion held and Joe refuses, the judge can order Joe held.
And if Joe decides that he's the Sheriff and he's going to refuse to follow what the judge says, then some nice men in black uniforms from the FBI come for a well-armed visit.

Wow, what country do you live in? The sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of the county. The sheriff enforces the judges orders. If he doesn't think the order is valid, he can tell the judge to do it himself. The judge won't. And anyone who thinks the Feds can stick their nose in this state issue is dreaming.

Judges who think they can act like a farking tyrant suffer from a delusional complex called "arrogance of the robe." Good for Joe telling him that his shiat does indeed stink.

Theaetetus: Anyone heard of it?

Haven't heard of that, but if Joe were to try something like that this time, I doubt the outcome would be good for him. There have to be a few, at least, stated and federal agents who want any excuse they can come up with to tear Joe to shreds. A judge saying he was intimidated would be more than enough excuse. What would be bad is a federal agent, pick a suitable agency, came around and Joe tried to intimidate them.

Hell, I just had a funny thought, imagine if someone thinks Joe is farking with someone's mail or better yet finds that he is farking with someone's mail. I get a feeling Joe would feel like he could tell a postal inspector to just go fark himself. And he'd quickly discover you don't fark with the postal service, period. What's bad is I could actually see this happening.