I know in Pennsylvania, raw milk producers get tested, and have to adhere to more stringent (and also get no right of appeal on test results, whereas pasteurizing producers get to have a second test done while the milk sits in cold storage) standards than the guys who sell to large bottling firms.

I would say Big Oil taught them a thing or two, but when you look at the facts, it might actually be the other way around.

Where else can you find an industry which pays the producer of a product 1/20th of what the final price is, when the original product is what was used for centuries? Then you have the balls to demand "minimum pricing" for your product for consumers under the guise of helping the farmers? WTF is that?

Those of us who have drank real milk know your product is crap. It comes from overworked, poorly fed cows who never see sunlight. Milk isn't supposed to be white, like the background of this box that I'm typing in, but more of a "cream" color. Think about that. Why is the color called that?

You claim your product as "whole" milk, but in reality, it's also a reduced fat product. You cut the fat down to the minimum standard for whole milk (set by some know-nothing politician on the advice of a food baron), and sell the "extra" cream, leaving a product reminiscent of water behind.

Now more and more people are buying milk from places other than the grocery store. You're afraid you're going to lose market share because of the vast inferiority of your product, perhaps being rendered obsolete. Trot out your scare tactics and your half-truths. More and more consumers like me are out there every day, and the majority of us buy our milk right from the farmer. Good luck getting us to change our ways.

You may have tankers, but we have pitchforks.

I skimmed this whole article, and I got a sour feeling.

I'm boiling at this headline.

A friend of mine just told me a few days ago that in Italy they have vending machines for unpasteurized milk. Can anybody confirm that?

/He also noted that it was delicious

Goimir: You may have tankers, but we have pitchforks.

You sound fat

A thread about untouched naked milk?

/frappe frappe frappe

CygnusDarius: I skimmed this whole article, and I got a sour feeling.

+1

Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

What???

A few years back there was a farmer in Yellow Springs, OH who had his entire farm seized and he was sent to prison for selling raw milk from his farm. In Ohio, it's just like dealing meth.

Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

Don't drink the stuff either. Oat Dream or some such thing. I can't believe it's from oats. Tastes better than the soy, rice or almond stuff.

I don't care if people want to drink raw milk, but it should be a crime to give them medical assistance when they get sick from it.

Same as with not wearing motorcycle helmets, not getting vaccinations, smoking, or any other dumbass behavior. You wanna do something that stupid of your own free will, pay the consequences.

I'll take the product where they've killed off all the nasty bits first.

Goimir: More and more consumers like me are out there every day, and the majority of us buy our milk right from the farmer.

I really hope more of this comes about in the coming years.

With the internet, you can arrange all sorts of groups and business arrangements that were difficult before. I like seeing more people dealing directly with producers, in all lines of productions. From a small firm making electronic products to some farmer raising grass fed cattle. I see meatspace retail dying off when the older, less internet savvy generations die off.

grew up with raw milk. to this day i still shake milk as i pull it out of the 'frige. some habits are hard to break.

Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

I bet Mother's Day is something special.

Saborlas: I'll take the product where they've killed off all the nasty bits first.

You know who likes the nasty bits?.

Did not read the whole article. Just skimmed over about 2% of it.

While SOME safety regulations are necessary it appears to have gone overboard. I grew up on whole/unpasteurized milk and the only downside was having to bring in the cow & milk her. Clean her teats, wash your hands & buckets &/or milking machine & all will be good.

spookidooki: I see meatspace retail dying off when the older, less internet savvy generations die off.

Guess you're lucky enough not to have been to a mall lately. The crowds of tweens is ever-present and more malls are still being built. Your idealized generation hasn't been born yet.

And even in such a world all it takes is a trend like 4th wave hipsters, that would fetishize generic Americana.

ghare: I don't care if people want to drink raw milk, but it should be a crime to give them medical assistance when they get sick from it.

Can it be a crime to help people who get sick from uncooked vegetables (yes, they can contain dangerous pathogens as well), from eating leftovers that sat in the fridge too long? Can we stop treating people who got sexually transmitted diseases because they should've used barriers, or wait, I know! THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUCCUMBING TO DISGUSTING ANIMAL DESIRES.

Yay! I love arbitrary, nonsense legislation.

/im sorry mam, we can't sew your kids head back together
//little farker shouldnt have been outside

spookidooki: ghare: I don't care if people want to drink raw milk, but it should be a crime to give them medical assistance when they get sick from it.

Can it be a crime to help people who get sick from uncooked vegetables (yes, they can contain dangerous pathogens as well), from eating leftovers that sat in the fridge too long? Can we stop treating people who got sexually transmitted diseases because they should've used barriers, or wait, I know! THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUCCUMBING TO DISGUSTING ANIMAL DESIRES.

Yay! I love arbitrary, nonsense legislation.

/im sorry mam, we can't sew your kids head back together
//little farker shouldnt have been outside fallen out of bed without a helmet.
FTFY

dishmosher: Did not read the whole article. Just skimmed over about 2% of it.
Can't get anything pasteurize, can we?

beoswulf: Your idealized generation hasn't been born yet.

Yet. Thats hopeful, right? I mean, its going to happen someday. Probably soon? :)

beoswulf: 4th wave hipsters

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I have fond memories of in my childhood opening the fridge door, pulling out a glass bottle that needed to be shaken up because the cream had separated from the liquid, and pouring a tall cool glass of it. we would also skim off the cream, leave the skim milk for my mother, who was dieting, to drink, and use the cream in our coffee or to make whipped cream.

Good times.

Came for the Baloo anim.

Left unsatisfied.

Milk on cereal...yum!

B A: While SOME safety regulations are necessary it appears to have gone overboard. I grew up on whole/unpasteurized milk and the only downside was having to bring in the cow & milk her. Clean her teats, wash your hands & buckets &/or milking machine & all will be good.

While these are all good things to do, the majority of the pathogens that people should be concerned about in raw milk are actually IN the milk, and you won't avoid them no matter how well you clean the cow. I, too, grew up on raw milk and don't think I ever had a problem. But no matter how much cleaning of the cow you do, the pathogens that are in there can be very dangerous to immunocompromised people (very young, elderly, pregnant, and sick people). Hence the concern.

Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

And you see folks, this is what happens when your baby has food sensitivities and you continue to breastfeed without eliminating the offending substances from your own diet.

Seth'n'Spectrum: A friend of mine just told me a few days ago that in Italy they have vending machines for unpasteurized milk. Can anybody confirm that?

/He also noted that it was delicious

Seems unlikely since unpasteurized milk would have a terrible shelf life, wouldn't make for good vending machine food. Maybe he's confusing unpasteurized with unhomogenized.

I've never had raw milk, would like to try it, but I'm guessing it'll be too rich for me. I prefer unhomogenized lowfat or fat free organic milk.

Maybe I'm just being capricious, but I'll stick to goat's milk

I love milk. I had to cut down from drinking several gallons a week, I love it so much... But I won't risk the raw stuff. I've spent enough time on or around dairy farms to know that I wouldn't trust any dairy farmer with my health when it comes to raw milk.

Never forget that bored farmers in some parts of the country will stick their weeners into the calf pen because calves will instinctively suck on anything resembling a teat.

Once you know that, you pretty much don't want anything raw from a dairy farm.

nonvideas: B A: While SOME safety regulations are necessary it appears to have gone overboard. I grew up on whole/unpasteurized milk and the only downside was having to bring in the cow & milk her. Clean her teats, wash your hands & buckets &/or milking machine & all will be good.

While these are all good things to do, the majority of the pathogens that people should be concerned about in raw milk are actually IN the milk, and you won't avoid them no matter how well you clean the cow. I, too, grew up on raw milk and don't think I ever had a problem. But no matter how much cleaning of the cow you do, the pathogens that are in there can be very dangerous to immunocompromised people (very young, elderly, pregnant, and sick people). Hence the concern.

AND the desire to ban the sale to those of us who want it?
THAT is strictly a desire to impose their views/desires/will on the public & increase their profit margins at our expense.

Yeah man, its a vast conspiracy by the man to keep the farmer down.

/You don't really believe that is fluoride they are putting in the water do you?
//Nope, no correlation between rural bad teeth and well water. Nosirree.
///Homogenized and pasteurized with a dash of slashes.

The biggest problem here seems to be legal liability. If consumers are both willing to sign statements that they disregard *any* health risks associated with raw milk, *and* the raw milk producers agree to forming a liability insurance cooperative, there shouldn't be a problem.

The pasteurized dairy industry has a long way to go to prove a legitimate threat to their industry, as years ago, they bitterly opposed the use of margarine, in many cases demanding state laws that margarine could only be sold as white, with a coloring packet included, so consumers had to color their own margarine yellow.

People seem to be forgetting we started doing things like pasteurization because raw milk was killing people, regularly. Same with vaccines and a billion other things we do in modern society to keep us from dying from nasty things like dysentery and smallpox. I don't think the world should be 100% sanitized and purelled to death, but I'm rather fond of my food not killing me or my kids. If you want to get sick or worse from eating/drinking food that's not as safe as it could be, go ahead, but I like my cereal without risk of e coli.

Pasteurization of milk isn't something that was arbitrarily introduced onto the market. It was done specifically because many people in cities were getting sick or killed by raw milk that had gone bad. It's not a speculative danger it's proven experience.

Yes, if you grew up on a farm then you probably drank raw milk and you were probably fine. The dangers in raw milk grow with time. So if it was in a cow twenty minutes ago it probably hasn't had time to grow anything nasty in the meantime. However if you treat it like most of the milk people drink today by milking the cow, letting it sit in storage for a while, trucking it to a supermarket, and then letting it sit on the shelf for a while then the dangers go way up.

otterrr: Seems unlikely since unpasteurized milk would have a terrible shelf life, wouldn't make for good vending machine food. Maybe he's confusing unpasteurized with unhomogenized.

It lasts over a week in the fridge for us. Vending machines are refrigerated.

I've never had raw milk, would like to try it, but I'm guessing it'll be too rich for me. I prefer unhomogenized lowfat or fat free organic milk.

Try it. Get some and let it settle overnight. Dump off the cream and do something else with it. Save it up in a container in the freezer to make ice cream or something. Shake and enjoy your lower in fat product.

greyw1980: Yeah man, its a vast conspiracy by the man to keep the farmer down.

/You don't really believe that is fluoride they are putting in the water do you?
//Nope, no correlation between rural bad teeth and well water. Nosirree.
///Homogenized and pasteurized with a dash of slashes.

Actually the correlation is between bad teeth & piss-poor hygeine.

Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

Good. More for me. You go right on drinking your bleached, vanilla-flavored soybean squeezings.

ZeroCorpse: Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.

Good. More for me. You go right on drinking your bleached, vanilla-flavored soybean squeezings.

Soy milk never made sense to me unless you have an allergy or something to milk and are desperate for something milk-like. Vegetarians/Vegans claim to hate animal products so very much, but half the veggie food I see is meant to mimic an animal product. Seems a little hypocritical.

Coconut Tequila: People seem to be forgetting we started doing things like pasteurization because raw milk was killing people, regularly. Same with vaccines and a billion other things we do in modern society to keep us from dying from nasty things like dysentery and smallpox. I don't think the world should be 100% sanitized and purelled to death, but I'm rather fond of my food not killing me or my kids. If you want to get sick or worse from eating/drinking food that's not as safe as it could be, go ahead, but I like my cereal without risk of e coli.

yeah, what this person said.

Earl of Chives: Milk, raw or otherwise is just vile. A thick bacteria infused slime squeezed from an animals teet that coats my entire throat and mouth with its animal vileness.

/My last glass of milk was 38 years ago.



...You must be real fun at parties.
I try not to over think the processes used to make food because, inevitably, it always involves something unpleasant. Bacteria, chemicals, and animals play many roles in processing the things we eat. Even if your a strict vegetarian its hard to avoid.

Really the problem here is the government trying to decide every aspect of what we eat and drink, regardless of how we feel about it.
There should be something in the law that allows us to knowingly opt out of the food safety requirements and buy what we want from whoever produces it.

Its your stomach. If you want to have a frothing glass of camel milk in the morning to wash down your herbal suppliments, the consequences should be on your head.

B A: greyw1980: Yeah man, its a vast conspiracy by the man to keep the farmer down.

/You don't really believe that is fluoride they are putting in the water do you?
//Nope, no correlation between rural bad teeth and well water. Nosirree.
///Homogenized and pasteurized with a dash of slashes.

Actually the correlation is between bad teeth & piss-poor hygeine.

Yeah, flouride has no effect on teeth at all.

AT ALL.

Coconut Tequila: risk of e coli.

Acid resistant e coli, the kind that can survive a human's extremely acidic stomach, was bred in the ill stomachs of cows being fed corn instead of grass.

As far as I recall cows stomachs are not supposed to be acidic at all and are more comparable to composting vats (they contain bacteria that break down the cellulose in grass) than what we know of as a stomach. When you feed cows corn, you mess up that system and the juices in the cows stomach turn acidic. Usually making the cow sick and letting pathogens that wouldn't normally develop take hold.

whammer: The biggest problem here seems to be legal liability. If consumers are both willing to sign statements that they disregard *any* health risks associated with raw milk, *and* the raw milk producers agree to forming a liability insurance cooperative, there shouldn't be a problem.

The pasteurized dairy industry has a long way to go to prove a legitimate threat to their industry, as years ago, they bitterly opposed the use of margarine, in many cases demanding state laws that margarine could only be sold as white, with a coloring packet included, so consumers had to color their own margarine yellow.

I wouldnt really mind seeing food coloring banned entirely.

ShaiAlyt: Coconut Tequila: People seem to be forgetting we started doing things like pasteurization because raw milk was killing people, regularly. Same with vaccines and a billion other things we do in modern society to keep us from dying from nasty things like dysentery and smallpox. I don't think the world should be 100% sanitized and purelled to death, but I'm rather fond of my food not killing me or my kids. If you want to get sick or worse from eating/drinking food that's not as safe as it could be, go ahead, but I like my cereal without risk of e coli.

yeah, what this person said.

Nobody is saying pasteurization should be halted. All we're saying is; pasteurized milk shouldn't be the only thing available to us. Translation: We're advocating free choice. The rest of you seem to be advocating a hive mind mentality with ZERO self determination/selection.

Seth'n'Spectrum: A friend of mine just told me a few days ago that in Italy they have vending machines for unpasteurized milk. Can anybody confirm that?

/He also noted that it was delicious

I don't know about vending machines, but I know you could purchase it in grocery stores when I was last there in 1973. Back then, I was on in the archaeological dig part of a college course on archaeology, up in Cerveteri, Italy, some of the kids (18-20, I was the "old guy" at 24) came bouncing into the pensione in which we were staying with these paper gallon containers (think the little sour cream packets scaled up) of raw milk, going on and on how it was just sooo cool and "natural."

"Yeah," I answered, "just like TB and salmonella are natural." I then asked them if they knew just how clean the dairy farms this came from were, if they, nice East Coast preppies, had built up any immunities to the local bacterial strains and if they got some perverse pleasure in puking their guts out at 2AM from same.

Their purchases quickly went down the nearest drain.

Coconut Tequila: People seem to be forgetting we started doing things like pasteurization because raw milk was killing people, regularly. Same with vaccines and a billion other things we do in modern society to keep us from dying from nasty things like dysentery and smallpox. I don't think the world should be 100% sanitized and purelled to death, but I'm rather fond of my food not killing me or my kids. If you want to get sick or worse from eating/drinking food that's not as safe as it could be, go ahead, but I like my cereal without risk of e coli.

Of could what was killing people was the fact that people were not cleaning their equipment properly, not checking the animals for disease before milking, and allowing the milk to sit to long in the UNCOOLED tank before selling it...

The difference is that in a modern, clean, sanitary and class A regulated milk production facility none of the above will be tolerated.

/grew up helping milk cows
//has fond memories
///drank raw milk.

B A: ShaiAlyt: Coconut Tequila: People seem to be forgetting we started doing things like pasteurization because raw milk was killing people, regularly. Same with vaccines and a billion other things we do in modern society to keep us from dying from nasty things like dysentery and smallpox. I don't think the world should be 100% sanitized and purelled to death, but I'm rather fond of my food not killing me or my kids. If you want to get sick or worse from eating/drinking food that's not as safe as it could be, go ahead, but I like my cereal without risk of e coli.

yeah, what this person said.

Nobody is saying pasteurization should be halted. All we're saying is; pasteurized milk shouldn't be the only thing available to us. Translation: We're advocating free choice. The rest of you seem to be advocating a hive mind mentality with ZERO self determination/selection.

That's pretty much what I was saying, choice is fine, but a lot of people who believe something is bad IE pasteurization, vaccines etc, make it sound like they want everyone to do their "healthy" thing.