a fine writer, colleague, just a very funny and talented guy ...

aw, dammit :(

Very sad. Not as sad as submitter's grammar, but very sad.

R.I.P.

vincent_blackshadow: a fine writer, colleague, just a very funny and talented guy ...

aw, dammit :(

Sorry to hear that. :(

Attention whore, he is.

Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

Transsexual sports writer Mike Penner dead at the senseless age of 52.

HAHAH hilarious because shahee wasn't a farker. Thus it is hilarious.

Goodnight, funny . . . man?

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

Yeah, better to just sneer and berate them; that way they'll just off themselves. Or do you actually feel some sympathy towards people "suffering" from this "disorder"?

This is truly sad news. The fact that a sports writer killed himself, and it wasn't Jay Mariotti brings a tear to my eye.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

Transsexual people, who transition or don't, commit suicide at alarming rates. So do depressed people, on medication or not.

Take your GED in medicine somewhere else, jackass.

Well, "normal" people don't commit suicide since our main purpose here in this world is arguably survival.

It's sad about this person, but I don't think it's likely that incorrect to guess that (s)he had some mental issues, although I don't think that is an invitation for them to be berated.

There needs to exist a Bob's quick guide to who vs. whom for subby.

Mike Peener would have been more .

R.I.P. F.A.G.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

Eh, disorder is a better word. There is definitely a genetic factor to gender dysphoria,such as the q28 locus of the long arm of the x-chromosome (sorry, genetics major here). And they have done studies of 5-year-olds who already show signs of gender identification problems. I think you are born with an idea of what sex you want to bang, but I think the gender you wish you were is part-genetic and part of interactions with your respective father and mother during the delicate elementary years ...anyway my condolences to this guy's family.

I submitted this with the headline "It will be missed." Mods are going soft.

I'm reminded of this letter. (new window)

I don't know why people get all sad about suicides. This guy apparently made the decision that dying was easier than living and executed an appropriate solution.

His loved ones need to realize that he is better off now.

And this is why America fails as a country

Lost Thought 00: And this is why America fails as a country

You make a cogent point.

/wat

I never knew being a sportswriter was so gay.

Nice, D-Liver, I was pondering submitting something similar. And yeah, mods have shiat all over what funny headlines once were. Sad, really.

Carl Winslow's .9 MM: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

Eh, disorder is a better word. There is definitely a genetic factor to gender dysphoria,such as the q28 locus of the long arm of the x-chromosome (sorry, genetics major here). And they have done studies of 5-year-olds who already show signs of gender identification problems. I think you are born with an idea of what sex you want to bang, but I think the gender you wish you were is part-genetic and part of interactions with your respective father and mother during the delicate elementary years ...anyway my condolences to this guy's family.

Not to troll, but question to the thread:

Lets say I think I can fly. One assumes that mentally I am out of sync with reality, right? My mind is defining the physical reality of the world, namely that gravity is going to make me its biatch if I try to jump off something. Same with a number of other disorders that come from the brain.

However, if I say I'm a women despite physical proof to the contrary, such as physical organs it is assumed that my physical reality needs to change (namely hormone pills and/or surgery).

What has caused the medical community to draw this line? I'm honestly curious, is there some kind of difference in brain pattern or hormones in the body that make gender issues a different kind denial of physical reality or something?

/hopefully some has an article that can explain it to my non-medical background rear end

D-Liver: I submitted this with the headline "It will be missed." Mods are going soft.

ha-ha-guy:

Yep.

Suppose a poor black kid from Oakland feels, nay, knows that deep down he is a white kid from Marin County. If medical science can give him white skin, reduce his vertical leap, etc., then why shouldn't it?
Of course he would need counselling to learn white social behavior, and extra spending money, maybe a new Saab.
And what is his new fmaily supposed to call him? Brother? Boy?

Or what if you saw Star Trek and suddenly, cathartically realised that all your life you've really been a Vulcan, born in an earthling body? Is there a charitable foundation that will buy you new ears?

ha-ha-guy: However, if I say I'm a women despite physical proof to the contrary, such as physical organs it is assumed that my physical reality needs to change (namely hormone pills and/or surgery).

I'm no expert in anything, but in at least some of these cases, the physical reality isn't especially clear, like with intersex people (NSFW pictures).

Number41: ha-ha-guy: However, if I say I'm a women despite physical proof to the contrary, such as physical organs it is assumed that my physical reality needs to change (namely hormone pills and/or surgery).

I'm no expert in anything, but in at least some of these cases, the physical reality isn't especially clear, like with intersex people (NSFW pictures).

Yeah I've read up on the XX guys or the XY-girls (there was a famous female track star who was XY IIRC and people biatched it was unfair). There it makes sense in the chromosomal differences lead to hormonal imbalances and you have a who level of "phenotypical reality" (for lack of a better term) vs "genetic reality". It's the XX girl who thinks she is a he or the XY guy who thinks he is a she that I don't get why it is considered physical and not mental.

ha-ha-guy: It's the XX girl who thinks she is a he or the XY guy who thinks he is a she that I don't get why it is considered physical and not mental.

I think in those cases, it is considered mental. But assuming you're not suicidal like this person was (or, for all practical purposes, the person jumping off buildings thinking they can fly), who cares if you get gender reassignment?

Number41: ha-ha-guy: It's the XX girl who thinks she is a he or the XY guy who thinks he is a she that I don't get why it is considered physical and not mental.

I think in those cases, it is considered mental. But assuming you're not suicidal like this person was (or, for all practical purposes, the person jumping off buildings thinking they can fly), who cares if you get gender reassignment?

It might vary from network to network, but at my job there is a push for transgender benefits to get added in to the health plan. According to the proposal I saw it is as follows (this is how our plan would cover it, this may not be the medically correct way):

1. Mental evaluation, assuming you pass...
2. Begin a documented period where you live as the desired gender (cross-dressing), check ins to make sure you're doing it.
3. Begin hormone therapy, check ins.
4. Assuming you stick with it: surgery (actually multiple surgeries with more hormone therapy between).

I saw nothing on any kind of pre-requirements for having genetic problems or the like. The only requirement was 6 months of "identifying" (cross-dressing) as the opposite gender prior to the medical stuff starting.

I care because if it gets added to the company health plan they'll either jack the copays and deductibles to offset the added cost covering this adds. you have to figure its about 1 in 1000 people need this (unless you living in Thailand), but the surgey runs 10-20k, while the HRT (hormone therapy) and shrink visits can drop another 5-10k onto that figure. I guess the surgey and all is likely cheaper than life time shrink visits, but idk.

/have to go visit the in-laws now so I need to step away from the thread

thegod082: There needs to exist a Bob's quick guide to who vs. whom for subby.

I've always followed this rule: Use "whom" immediately following a preposition, otherwise, use "who."

/There may be some cases where this doesn't work, but I've never found one.
//Does anyone have a better rule of thumb to follow?

D-Liver: I submitted this with the headline "It will be missed." Mods are going soft.

No, it's just that the admins aren't douchebags. Calling a transsexual person "it" is pretty damn disgusting, especially in reference to a transsexual person who just committed suicide- probably largely due to the depression caused by being a person that society rejects and ostracizes.

I thought the Penner was mightier than the sword

/I'm leaving OK

TKirk3rd: I've always followed this rule: Use "whom" immediately following a preposition, otherwise, use "who."

/There may be some cases where this doesn't work, but I've never found one.
//Does anyone have a better rule of thumb to follow?

"Whom" is an object, "who" is a subject. Your rule works because whom is the object of the preposition in those cases. But it can also be the object of the verb, like in the sentence, "John liked Jane, whom he met in school." Whom is the object of met.

Genevieve Marie: D-Liver: I submitted this with the headline "It will be missed." Mods are going soft.

No, it's just that the admins aren't douchebags. Calling a transsexual person "it" is pretty damn disgusting, especially in reference to a transsexual person who just committed suicide- probably largely due to the depression caused by being a person that society rejects and ostracizes.

Sweet Jesus you have a Beverly Cleary book on the front page of your blog. I was going to tell you to lighten up and ask if your name was Francis, welcome you to Fark, etc, but sweet dangling messiah that caught me off guard...I'm more of a Judy Blume man myself. I like little kids named Fudge, what can I say.

D-Liver: Sweet Jesus you have a Beverly Cleary book on the front page of your blog. I was going to tell you to lighten up and ask if your name was Francis, welcome you to Fark, etc, but sweet dangling messiah that caught me off guard...I'm more of a Judy Blume man myself. I like little kids named Fudge, what can I say.

I haven't updated that in forever, but I'm a kid's book enthusiast. I have all the Judy Blume books too.

There was a thread about transsexuals on the main page the other day that got kind of ugly and the "it" thing is still kind of a sore point- lots of really good transsexual and intersex people on fark actually, and I hate to think of them reading really hateful stuff.

I hope he wasn't reading yesterday's tranny Fark thread.

ha-ha-guy:
What has caused the medical community to draw this line? I'm honestly curious, is there some kind of difference in brain pattern or hormones in the body that make gender issues a different kind denial of physical reality or something?

/hopefully some has an article that can explain it to my non-medical background rear end

There is a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is what reproductive organs you have. Gender on the other hand, is not so clear cut. It has to do with sexual orientation, what social role you see yourself as having in society, etc. etc. Its a complex status that is not black and white, and is entirely dependent on the society that you live in.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

I agree.

DiaZigy: ha-ha-guy:
What has caused the medical community to draw this line? I'm honestly curious, is there some kind of difference in brain pattern or hormones in the body that make gender issues a different kind denial of physical reality or something?

/hopefully some has an article that can explain it to my non-medical background rear end

There is a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is what reproductive organs you have. Gender on the other hand, is not so clear cut. It has to do with sexual orientation, what social role you see yourself as having in society, etc. etc. Its a complex status that is not black and white, and is entirely dependent on the society that you live in.

Yet there's no funding available for those of us who feel guilty about being cisgender. Why is there bias against us?

So if I understand this correctly, he agonized for many years about making the switch, finally resolved to do so, did it publicly, and then ... what, changed his mind? He went back to being Mike Penner. How do you go back to being Mike Penner after all that? How far along the process was he before he abandoned it?

Can't even begin to imagine what kind of emotional havoc was going on there. RIP.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.

10/10 troll

I liked his Olympic and Angels stuff. When he came out I was surprised only because that is a tough thing to be so incredibly public about for a guy that dealt with a lot of macho dipshiat types in locker rooms. Rest peacefully Mike.

I'm pretty sure he was in front of me Friday morning at Best Buy and got the last goddamn wii console in the store...

Genevieve Marie: D-Liver: Sweet Jesus you have a Beverly Cleary book on the front page of your blog. I was going to tell you to lighten up and ask if your name was Francis, welcome you to Fark, etc, but sweet dangling messiah that caught me off guard...I'm more of a Judy Blume man myself. I like little kids named Fudge, what can I say.

I haven't updated that in forever, but I'm a kid's book enthusiast. I have all the Judy Blume books too.

There was a thread about transsexuals on the main page the other day that got kind of ugly and the "it" thing is still kind of a sore point- lots of really good transsexual and intersex people on fark actually, and I hate to think of them reading really hateful stuff.

Do you also shudder at the fattie threads, or the smoker threads, or the loser virgin threads? Because I'm quite sure there are many nice fatties, smokers, and loser virgins on FARK, and they get more shiat than the trannies.

FirstNationalBastard: Do you also shudder at the fattie threads, or the smoker threads, or the loser virgin threads? Because I'm quite sure there are many nice fatties, smokers, and loser virgins on FARK, and they get more shiat than the trannies.

Much, much smaller part of their identity and many more people like them to make them feel ok about it.

Deadhouseplants: This is truly sad news. The fact that a sports writer killed himself, and it wasn't Jay Mariotti brings a tear to my eye.

This times a thousand

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Gee, it's almost as if he had some sort of mental disorder. Too bad society and PC science won't call transsexuals what they are - mentally ill.