So much national health care.

To get treatment that bad in the US, you would have to go to Walter Reed.

baka-san: To get treatment that bad in the US, you would have to go to Walter Reedany Emergency Room.

/FTFY

The Mail takes an anti-EU, anti-abortion view, based upon "traditional values", and is pro-capitalism and pro-monarchy, as well as, in some cases, advocating stricter punishments for crime. It also often calls for lower levels of taxation. The paper is generally critical of the BBC, which it argues is biased to the left.

both the us and the uk have isolated instances of appalling health care. the difference is, in the us, it costs you tens of thousands of dollars, while in the uk it costs you nothing.

FlashHarry: both the us and the uk have isolated instances of appalling health care. the difference is, in the us, it costs you tens of thousands of dollars, while in the uk it costs you nothing a large portion of your income in the form of taxes.

FTFY.

"Free health care" isn't free. You pay for it every time you get a paycheck and the government takes out taxes. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system.

PacManDreaming: "Free health care" isn't free. You pay for it every time you get a paycheck and the government takes out taxes. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system.

Then how come they pay less taxes in the UK than we do in the US per capita?

Abstruse: Then how come they pay less taxes in the UK than we do in the US per capita?

You might want to do a little more research into the UK's tax burden before you bring up that argument.

I've seen some American rest homes that would give that place a run for its money.

Sounds like the beginning of the zombie apocalypse.

FlashHarry: both the us and the uk have isolated instances of appalling health care. the difference is, in the us, it costs you tens of thousands of dollars, while in the uk it costs you nothing.

Everything costs something. Having choices cost even more in general.

Welcome to Obama's America sheeple.

Abstruse: PacManDreaming:
Then how come they pay less taxes in the UK than we do in the US per capita?

Are you including corporate taxes? In any event the answer is because of the stupid liberals.

PacManDreaming: Abstruse: Then how come they pay less taxes in the UK than we do in the US per capita?

You might want to do a little more research into the UK's tax burden before you bring up that argument.

Gonna have to totally back up this statement

Mentat: I've seen some American rest homes that would give that place a run for its money.

Sadly, quite a few of them do.

I just want to know...how the hell do people that work in places like that live with themselves?

PacManDreaming: "Free health care" isn't free.

Yeah, yeah. It's not free. Of course it has to be paid for.. The point of public healthcare is that you won't die simply because you can't pay right there.. Hospitals won't turn you away if you don't have coverage. because you already have coverage.

And insurance company leaches aren't making millions of dollars in bonuses by making sure you DON'T get treatment.

PacManDreaming: Mentat: I've seen some American rest homes that would give that place a run for its money.

Sadly, quite a few of them do.

I just want to know...how the hell do people that work in places like that live with themselves?

It's because 9/10 times medicaid is the one paying, or more accurately severely underpaying.

this thread calls for

To be fair, it is a training hospital.

Alacritous: Yeah, yeah. It's not free. Of course it has to be paid for.. The point of public healthcare is that you won't die simply because you can't pay right there.. Hospitals won't turn you away if you don't have coverage. because you already have coverage.

And insurance company leaches aren't making millions of dollars in bonuses by making sure you DON'T get treatment.

Oh, I agree with you. I was just pointing out to the other poster that someone has to pay for it. The money to fund public health care doesn't just materialize out of thin air.

If there were any hospitals like this in America it would be above the fold on the NY Times everyday for months.

{if (one hospital=NHS) and (U.S. public option=NHS) then public option = unnecessary death}

/Batter up for your weekly "socialism BAD" thread

I don't get this.

The Government will take care of you.

It really will!

TTIUWP...

/just sayin...

Alacritous: PacManDreaming: "Free health care" isn't free.

Yeah, yeah. It's not free. Of course it has to be paid for.. The point of public healthcare is that you won't die simply because you can't pay right there.. Hospitals won't turn you away if you don't have coverage. because you already have coverage.

And insurance company leaches aren't making millions of dollars in bonuses by making sure you DON'T get treatment.

People die all the time in the UK because people can't pay right there. The government makes decisions every day about how much medical equipment to buy, or more accurately how much not to buy, that results in the deaths that they know could be prevented. People will still die from a lack of resources if we adopt single payer (we already spend more on our average non insured than they do on their average insured citizen, BTW), but hopefully we can save some money.

how the hell did this get greenlit without the word 'nanny' in the headline?

isn't that compulsory around here?

FTFA:The Essex hospital is run by one of the supposedly 'elite' foundation trusts, which have greater freedom to manage their finances. Last night there were angry calls for its entire management team to resign.

Ah, so here's the problem. The injection of "free-market" practices into the system.

PacManDreaming: Mentat: I've seen some American rest homes that would give that place a run for its money.

Sadly, quite a few of them do.

I just want to know...how the hell do people that work in places like that live with themselves?

It's called apathy.

THIS ISOLATED INCIDENT IS PROOF THAT OBAMACARE WILL KILL US ALL AND EAT OUR CHILDREN. STOOPID LIBZ EL-OH-EL

relcec: It's because 9/10 times medicaid is the one paying, or more accurately severely underpaying.

Yep, we(the American people) are stuck in a very bad spot. The government can't seem to manage Medicare/Medicaid and the insurance companies are so huge that they can get away with murder and charge us out the ass for it. And these are the people that lord over our health care.

Gee, its almost like institutions always have the capacity for incompetence and gross negligence.

Ninja Wicked: "Welcome to Obama's America sheeple."

Retard identified.

DempseySR26: If there were any hospitals like this in America it would be above the fold on the NY Times everyday for months.

Yep, that would never happen in America. (new window)?

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
She's down the hall third door on the left.

Message here: Don't live to be old

kilgorn: I don't get this.

The Government will take care of you.

It really will!

Well if the false dichotomy we're always presented with is even moderately true , and you don't have family, you can either die in your own filth on the street or in a poorly run state hospital.

You're still gonna die in your own filth.

Abstruse: PacManDreaming: "Free health care" isn't free. You pay for it every time you get a paycheck and the government takes out taxes. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system.

Then how come they pay less taxes in the UK than we do in the US per capita?

You're out of your farking mind.

Once I had appendicitis and had to wait 8 hours on a chair in the emergency department, barefoot on a blood splattered floor. Eventually a bed became spare and I waited another 30 hours for a spot in the operating theatre.

But, they monitored me constantly and put me in theatre as soon as I started to really go downhill. It is called "Friday Night in a Public Hospital" here in Australia.

I didn't feel the slightest resentment either, they were freakin busy with car accidents, face glassings and other more serious issues. With limited resources they functioned well and got the job done for everyone (in priority of who needed the resources most at the time). I recovered in a couple of days and went back to work.

So - I got the care I needed and our society kept a functioning (working/taxpaying) member.

The system worked.

All it requires is less sense of entitlement on behalf of the end users and good processes (ie, like the inspections in this article) to ensure the limited resources are used as efficiently as possible.

Some die, so what. Give Darwin some room to maneuver every now and again guys.

What's with the 'shopped sign in the first picture?

They find pyramid head, too? Or did he find them?

To get treatment that bad in the US, you would have to go to Walter Reed.

If by 'Walter Reed', you mean 'wait for ObamaCare'.

Liberals: We want everyone to have free health care!
Reality: Anything that's 'free' will be worthless. As in, the care described in TFA.

You got some ooga in my booga.

zzrhardy:
All it requires is less sense of entitlement on behalf of the end users... Give Darwin some room to maneuver every now and again guys.

Listen. America is made of WINNERS. WINNERS don't sit in a farkin' chair for 8 hours waiting for treatment. We get it NOW. And, American WINNERS do give Darwin some room -- it's call the REST OF THE EARTH CAN GO FARK ITSELF! USA! USA! USA!!11!!1

/Yeah, yeah.... Troll-fu is weak.
//Think of it as weak satire instead.

In before the stupidity gets off the grou---

O well, nothing but extremists, alarmists and/or wackjobs

/loon

PacManDreaming: relcec: It's because 9/10 times medicaid is the one paying, or more accurately severely underpaying.

Yep, we(the American people) are stuck in a very bad spot. The government can't seem to manage Medicare/Medicaid and the insurance companies are so huge that they can get away with murder and charge us out the ass for it. And these are the people that lord over our health care.

Medicare is run decently and just a little underfunded in the aggregate but payments to certain providers and for certain procedures are way to low. Providers make up for the underpayments by charging higher rates to private insurers. Medicaid pays well below costs, and since the states have to chip in (and they have a much harder time running deficits) it's not nearly as well funded as it should be.

A huge help would be if congress would expand doctor training. Our doctors earn twice as much as most of their EU counterparts (in some cases 3 times as much). Not many like to talk about that fact. They are the only group that is allowed to get wealthy off the sick without vilification apparently. The AMA regularly lobbies congress to keep Medicare from opening new slots up at medical schools. I wish we had France's system (no undergrad needed, gov pays for schooling, doctors make $70k IIRC).

RailGunner: To get treatment that bad in the US, you would have to go to Walter Reed.

If by 'Walter Reed', you mean 'wait for ObamaCare'.

Liberals: We want everyone to have free health care!
Reality: Anything that's 'free' will be worthless. As in, the care described in TFA.

You Sir are a retard.

Obama has only been around for a few moments. Why are you a hater?

Walter Reed hospital has been serving less than good service for a number of years.

Anyone care to suggest differently?

Sergeant Grumbles: FTFA:The Essex hospital is run by one of the supposedly 'elite' foundation trusts, which have greater freedom to manage their finances. Last night there were angry calls for its entire management team to resign.

Ah, so here's the problem. The injection of "free-market" practices into the system.

3/10

There's nothing free market about what's going on here. A free market, by definition, must have all criteria met for the definition or it cannot be considered a free market.

Part of a free market includes the negative feedback of a true competitive playing field and the consequences of being bad at your business. Unhappy customers go elsewhere, taking their money with them. Other businesses compete by being better.

In this hospital, all you have are a bunch of government employees with secure jobs, no oversight, no feedback incentives, and lots of money. What sort of results do you think you might get in a situation like that? What sorts of employees do you think it attracts, and which ones does it drive away (in disgust)?

PacManDreaming: "Free health care" isn't free. You pay for it every time you get a paycheck and the government takes out taxes. It's only free to those who don't pay into the system.

add up the taxes, then add in the insurance costs, then what they DONT cover and what they will cost you here dude
.... its a tad (read farkLOADS MORE) expensive here

grinderman: zzrhardy:
All it requires is less sense of entitlement on behalf of the end users... Give Darwin some room to maneuver every now and again guys.

Listen. America is made of WHINERS. WHINERS don't sit in a farkin' chair for 8 hours waiting for treatment. We get it NOW. And, American WHINERS do give Darwin some room -- it's call the REST OF THE EARTH CAN GO FARK ITSELF! USA! USA! USA!!11!!1

/Yeah, yeah.... Troll-fu is weak.
//Think of it as weak satire instead.

That would have been better troll fu.

relcec: PacManDreaming: relcec: It's because 9/10 times medicaid is the one paying, or more accurately severely underpaying.

Yep, we(the American people) are stuck in a very bad spot. The government can't seem to manage Medicare/Medicaid and the insurance companies are so huge that they can get away with murder and charge us out the ass for it. And these are the people that lord over our health care.

Medicare is run decently and just a little underfunded in the aggregate but payments to certain providers and for certain procedures are way to low. Providers make up for the underpayments by charging higher rates to private insurers. Medicaid pays well below costs, and since the states have to chip in (and they have a much harder time running deficits) it's not nearly as well funded as it should be.

A huge help would be if congress would expand doctor training. Our doctors earn twice as much as most of their EU counterparts (in some cases 3 times as much). Not many like to talk about that fact. They are the only group that is allowed to get wealthy off the sick without vilification apparently. The AMA regularly lobbies congress to keep Medicare from opening new slots up at medical schools. I wish we had France's system (no undergrad needed, gov pays for schooling, doctors make $70k IIRC).

So you would be willing to go to medical school for 8 years, and do years of training after that for free right?

FlashHarry: The Mail takes an anti-EU, anti-abortion view, based upon "traditional values", and is pro-capitalism and pro-monarchy, as well as, in some cases, advocating stricter punishments for crime. It also often calls for lower levels of taxation. The paper is generally critical of the BBC, which it argues is biased to the left.

both the us and the uk have isolated instances of appalling health care. the difference is, in the us, it costs you tens of thousands of dollars, while in the uk it costs you nothing.

Sounds like a hell of a mission statement.