How the hell can I make my team better by practice?

(new window)

I supposed to be franchise player

Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.

To be fair, at least Iverson was actually good at his sport... he was just greedy, selfish, and not built to be a winner.

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.

To be fair, at least Iverson was actually good at his sport... he was just greedy, selfish, and not built to be a winner.

*beep* *beep*

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.

To be fair, at least Iverson was actually good at his sport... he was just greedy, selfish, and not built to be a winner.

If I remember correctly, he did make it to an NBA finals, and even won game 1 in L.A. against a Lakers Kobe/Shaq team that should have easily swept them. He was a winner that was never really on a great team.

The fact that he even made it to the finals with that team, and then won a game in a severely lopsided match-up makes him a winner.

To give some perspective.

2001 Los Angeles Lakers
Shaquille O'Neal | Kobe Bryant | Derek Fisher | Rick Fox | Horace Grant | Isaiah Rider | Ron Harper | Brian Shaw | Robert Horry | Stanislav Medvedenko | Tyronn Lue | Devean George | Greg Foster | Mark Madsen |


2001 Philadelphia 76ers
Allen Iverson | Dikembe Mutombo | Aaron McKie | Eric Snow | Tyrone Hill | George Lynch | Matt Geiger | Rodney Buford | Jumaine Jones | Todd MacCulloch | Kevin Ollie | Roshown McLeod | Raja Bell | Anthony Miller |

Probably one of the most lopsided the most lop-sided match-ups in finals history.

And maybe you can make an argument that he was not a winner, but to call him overrated is ridiculous. Reggie Miller was overrated, not Iverson.

He'll be back by March when [random-Western-conference-team-that-isn't-the-Lakers] is looking to make a push. This is just feet stamping and nobody should be fooled.

FL8ME: He'll be back by March when [random-Western-conference-team-that-isn't-the-Lakers] is looking to make a push. This is just feet stamping and nobody should be fooled.

That

He is the reason lots of fans stopped watching the NBA. Greedy, thuggish, low shooting %, and tons of points. The league has tons of great young talent right now and I hope with AI's retirement we can start to forget the era he represents.

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.
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I am going to call BULLshiat on this.

Iverson HAD to be a one man show...go back and look at some of the stiffs this guy had to play with during the bulk of his prime. He had, at best, a small handful of even remotely ok teammates. Everybody talks about the stiffs Lebron has to play with in Clevo but my GOD Iverson would have been lucky to have that in Philly.

and lets not overlook the fact that while everybody biatches about the whole "PRACTICE" thing and/or "Iverson was lazy" you can go back and watch the tape and see a guy who busted his ass and then some every night. He was 6 feet tall (maybe) and 160 pounds wet and wearing timberlands with cement in them and that didn't stop him from being completely fearless on the court.

put it this way; if iverson didn't have all the tattoos and the corn rows (i.e. he looked more acceptable to white america or whatever) basketball fans would be building statues for this guy and praising him from now until the end of time.

that said the way his time went down in detroit was a self inflicted damn shame.

I've defended him a hundred times over the "practice" thing, and will continue to do so. But right now, in refusing to accept a smaller role for a good team, he is acting like a biatch.

Well, bye.

blueyedevil: I've defended him a hundred times over the "practice" thing, and will continue to do so. But right now, in refusing to accept a smaller role for a good team, he is acting like a biatch.

Memphis....Good Team????

really????

Dr Fever: really????

No he wanted to be the big guy on a bad team in Memphis. He wants to be a starter and nobody wanted him as a starter.

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.

They're showing the stat on ESPN this morning, that Iverson has the 5th highest scoring average over his career in league history (though according to BasketballReference he's actually 6th, 0.1 point behind West, so maybe a snafu by the four letter there). That's not overrated, I don't care what you say. When you end your career scoring more points per game than The Big O, Kobe, D-Wade, The Ice Man, Nique, Shaq, Bird, and Pistol Farking Pete Maravich, you've done something right.

seabass242: To give some perspective.

2001 Los Angeles Lakers
Shaquille O'Neal | Kobe Bryant | Derek Fisher | Rick Fox | Horace Grant | Isaiah Rider | Ron Harper | Brian Shaw | Robert Horry | Stanislav Medvedenko | Tyronn Lue | Devean George | Greg Foster | Mark Madsen |


2001 Philadelphia 76ers
Allen Iverson | Dikembe Mutombo | Aaron McKie | Eric Snow | Tyrone Hill | George Lynch | Matt Geiger | Rodney Buford | Jumaine Jones | Todd MacCulloch | Kevin Ollie | Roshown McLeod | Raja Bell | Anthony Miller |

Probably one of the most lopsided the most lop-sided match-ups in finals history.

The 35 a game he averaged in that series, as a 6 foot (yeah right) guard, against a team that not only had Shaq in his prime but Horace Grant in the middle, when the Lakers knew going in that all they had to do is keep him in check to win, is one of the most underrated feats in Finals history.

Commentator Stephen A. Smith published a statement on his Web site Wednesday attributed to Iverson. It said Iverson plans to retire but also that "I feel strongly that I can still compete at the highest level."

The real story here is this: Stephen A. Smith still has a job somehow. QUITE FRANKLY THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

jayhawk88: seabass242: To give some perspective.

2001 Los Angeles Lakers
Shaquille O'Neal | Kobe Bryant | Derek Fisher | Rick Fox | Horace Grant | Isaiah Rider | Ron Harper | Brian Shaw | Robert Horry | Stanislav Medvedenko | Tyronn Lue | Devean George | Greg Foster | Mark Madsen |


2001 Philadelphia 76ers
Allen Iverson | Dikembe Mutombo | Aaron McKie | Eric Snow | Tyrone Hill | George Lynch | Matt Geiger | Rodney Buford | Jumaine Jones | Todd MacCulloch | Kevin Ollie | Roshown McLeod | Raja Bell | Anthony Miller |

Probably one of the most lopsided the most lop-sided match-ups in finals history.

The 35 a game he averaged in that series, as a 6 foot (yeah right) guard, against a team that not only had Shaq in his prime but Horace Grant in the middle, when the Lakers knew going in that all they had to do is keep him in check to win, is one of the most underrated feats in Finals history.

THIS

Pretty much crystallized my previous argument FOR the merits of Iverson.

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.

To be fair, at least Iverson was actually good at his sport... he was just greedy, selfish, and not built to be a winner.

He is not at all overrated from a pure basketball standpoint. If anything, he's probably underrated.

However, I don't like the guy. You're not who you were, accept it and take a smaller role.

puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.


Well on the downside, this is single-handedly one of the dumbest remarks I have ever read, especially given the media circus surrounding him the last three years that focused on his personality and completely forgot his playing ability.

On the upside, you're now a favorite labeled "Don't this guy seriously" - giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Guess he was tired of practice. Practice. We talking 'bout practice? I'm talking 'bout retirement. Retirement.

Dr Fever: puffy999: Most overrated professional athlete since Joe Namath.
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I am going to call BULLshiat on this.

Iverson HAD to be a one man show...go back and look at some of the stiffs this guy had to play with during the bulk of his prime. He had, at best, a small handful of even remotely ok teammates. Everybody talks about the stiffs Lebron has to play with in Clevo but my GOD Iverson would have been lucky to have that in Philly.

and lets not overlook the fact that while everybody biatches about the whole "PRACTICE" thing and/or "Iverson was lazy" you can go back and watch the tape and see a guy who busted his ass and then some every night. He was 6 feet tall (maybe) and 160 pounds wet and wearing timberlands with cement in them and that didn't stop him from being completely fearless on the court.

put it this way; if iverson didn't have all the tattoos and the corn rows (i.e. he looked more acceptable to white america or whatever) basketball fans would be building statues for this guy and praising him from now until the end of time.

that said the way his time went down in detroit was a self inflicted damn shame.

I doubt Iverson could have played on a team he wasn't carrying. I don't think he knew how. Over his career he took 22 shots a game and made 42.5% of them... that's a lot of bad shots. He also gambled too much on defense. He's as good as anybody ever was at getting shots off and given his size and the beating he took he's probably one of the toughest players of all time. I think the only way he could have played with another superstar on his team, though, would be if it were a Dwight Howard type who doesn't need to touch the ball that often on offense to affect the game.

I, for one, was totally unsurprised that the 76ers didn't get worse when he left.

Gunny Highway: No he wanted to be the big guy on a bad team in Memphis. He wants to be a starter and nobody wanted him as a starter.

I think that's a blow to his ego more than anything else. Can't be a starter on the historically worst franchise in NBA history? ...then he quits.

Ishkur: I think that's a blow to his ego more than anything else.

That was a huge hit to a HUGE ego

Ishkur: historically worst franchise in NBA history



6-42 with a .125 winning % for the Providence Steamrollers in the 47-48 season. Over their 3 year life span they were 46-122 with a .274 winning %.

I dont know if that is the worst but I love to represent the shiattiness that is my hometown basketball team. One of the original 11 franchises.

For all his problems you have to give Marbury credit and at least he accepted a bench role in his comeback last year. Though I do realize being traded to a contender makes a player accept a lot of things. Have fun eating your Vaseline, Iverson.

I hated AI for beating the Raptors time after time, but his attitude problem gets a bad rap. He was a hyper-competitive guy who loved playing basketball. Michael Jordan did the same thing in Washington, forcing up shots and playing too many minutes on a bad team, the only difference was that he was MJ and nobody was gonna tell him sh-t.

But Iverson being a selfish dick is the wrong way to look at it. Here, let him tell you himself (pops).

RedEyedWings: But Iverson being a selfish dick is the wrong way to look at it. Here, let him tell you himself (pops).

I've seen that before, and it honestly took him up several notches in my book. However, I still think he's being a selfish dick about this whole situation. Peoples' skills decline. It happens.

This thread will make it very easy to spot people that don't know fark-all about the NBA.

Iverson was a god damn great player.

Dr.Knockboots: Iverson was a god damn great player.

Agreed. Captivating when the ball was in his hands

Dr.Knockboots: This thread will make it very easy to spot people that don't know fark-all about the NBA.

Iverson was a god damn great player.

He was a great player, but I don't disagree with the notion that he ws somewhat of a diva that just wouldn't accept a lesser role. There are half a dozen contenders that would give almost anything to have a guy like him coming off their bench that could pour in ~16 a game, especially considering the way in which he can do it (lots of drives in the lane, forcing the D to work). This kind of thing would be an incredible advantage for a team in the playoffs.

Honestly I can't believe Cleveland wouldn't take a chance on him.

Car RamRod: Well, bye.

THIS.

Thread over. Full of win.

seabass242: The fact that he even made it to the finals with that team, and then won a game in a severely lopsided match-up makes him a winner.

Before I say anything critical of your statement, I'll say this. I was a huge Sixers fan while Iverson was in Philly. I started playing basketball because of Iverson. I think he's one of the most talented players to play in Philadelphia during my lifetime.

With that said, the 2001 Eastern Conference NBA Playoffs were awful. Yes, Iverson carried his team to the finals, but he was playing against equally awful teams with good/great players trying to also carry their crappy team to the Finals. They played a Pacers team with an aging Miller and young stars in Artest and O'Neil. He played a Raptors team that had one good player, and the series still went to 7 games (and if I remember correctly, could have been won by Toronto on the last shot of the series). He played a crappy Bucks team that had one good player and an alien, and the series also went to 7 games.

Iverson wasn't a winner because of a good run through a crappy Eastern Conference one year. He was a winner because of the effort and determination he brought every game.

If Iverson came back to the Sixers, which he would never do, I'd actually want to go to an NBA game.

I tend to think that Iverson was a little overrated, but still a great player. As talented as he was, though, he was even more of an amazing, insane competitor, and you had to like that. He was one of the most compelling, interesting and entertaining players ever, and every fan should feel damn lucky they got to see him play.

jayhawk88: He was a great player, but I don't disagree with the notion that he ws somewhat of a diva that just wouldn't accept a lesser role

Diva's not the word anyone would ever use when describing Iverson. I mean, the rest of it is sort of accurate, but that word is just wrong.

Also, for the people who think he's a selfish jackass because of the whole "practice" rant, go ahead and read the whole interview (there's transcripts online) and he'll look a LOT less bad. Basically they call him in in the offseason when his best friend has died and he's still upset about losing in the first round, and they ask him about a couple of practices he's missed. He's pissed because the Sixers are clearly shopping him and trying to poison his name within Philly by making the case that he's not coming to practice, and basically just trying to make it justifiable to get rid of him. He sees the writing on the wall.

As for the "how can I make my teammates better by practice?", there is the whole getting used to playing with him and working on specific plays and all, but honestly, if you can't get used to playing with a guy in the 100+ games a year they were playing, in addition to the practices he went to, then no, you're probably not going to get better from those couple extra practices.

jayhawk88: They're showing the stat on ESPN this morning, that Iverson has the 5th highest scoring average over his career in league history (

Without looking for stats, please name any top 50 NBA scorer (all time) with a worse career shooting percentage than Iverson.

I'll wait.

Dr Fever: and lets not overlook the fact that while everybody biatches about the whole "PRACTICE" thing and/or "Iverson was lazy" you can go back and watch the tape and see a guy who busted his ass and then some every night. He was 6 feet tall (maybe) and 160 pounds wet and wearing timberlands with cement in them and that didn't stop him from being completely fearless on the court.

I don't care about the practice thing. Sure, it's childish, but it goes along with his work ethic (don't do anything that doesn't put "me" in the spotlight), but ultimately that doesn't define him.

His attitude made all (but one, and that's a stretch... remember how AWFUL the Eastern Conference was when teams like the Nets and 76ers were winning? It was a crap shoot, for the honor to get trounced by whoever was sent out of the Western Conference... and "winning one game" doesn't mean f*ck all, the Shaq Lakers didn't have the kind of playoff dominance that the Jordan-led Bulls had) of the teams he played for worse than they would have been with another competent, driven scoring machine.

Incidentally, if Iverson were the kind of player some people like to think of him as, you'd have expected SOME players in the NBA to want to play with him. NBA players have no problem putting aside their feuds in order to win, and if other players thought he was a player that could lead a team to a title, they'd have ended up in Philly. I mean, he was "so awesome" that he "led, by himself" a team to the NBA Finals! He's like the Kerry Collins of basketball, so he's obviously one of the best.

Iverson was an And-1 Tour player, an ESPN Sportscenter (post Disney) player. If you think the NBA is a sport about one single guy trying to out-score the other team, and belittling his teammates, coaches, and team staff whilst doing it, then you probably think Iverson is a legendary player. If you think having a slick stutter step move makes you better than the guy who takes 10 fewer shots a game but ends up with only two or three points fewer per game, you probably think Iverson is a legendary player.

Oh, he's certainly a hell of an individual player, and he gave effort during games. But his attitude ultimately puts him in the discussion with players like Shawn Kemp (when he could dominate), not Michael Jordan. Even the early ball-hogging Jordan could, you know, shoot.

He's a Hall of Famer. That does not mean he is not overrated. If you ignore the team aspect of a sport, particularly the sport where the direct interaction between teammates (moreso than baseball, football, or hockey) is necessary in order to win, you can go ahead and put him on the Mount Rushmore of basketball, for all I care. However, I'd bet money that if you ask any NBA executives "would you ever have wanted Iverson on your team in the midst of an NBA Championship run?" you'd hear more crickets than votes of confidence. Like a miniature Zach Randolph, only with a bit of defense and a lot of hustle.

seabass242: And maybe you can make an argument that he was not a winner, but to call him overrated is ridiculous. Reggie Miller was overrated, not Iverson.

Reggie Miller was as clutch as any player this side of Jordan/Magic/Bird. Reggie Miller played comparably poor teams, but actually made his teammates better.

Reggie was not as talented individually as Iverson, and was as thin as a rail (everyone makes a big deal about Iverson being "so tough," but he's not a farking stick figure with no muscle or jumping ability... people are just idiots that think "short" equals "weak", and Iverson was a little powerhouse), yet if they were on the same team, and the team needed a last-second shot to win a game, there's absolutely no way that Iverson would've received the ball.

Incidentally, people should also peruse the dictionary for the word "overrated." I don't think it means what some of you think it means. And again, it's not always about what you can do when dribbling or driving against some other guys... not in the NBA, at least.

I think he's taking lessons from the Brett Farve School of AW-itis.

Since it's Stephen A Smith reporting...

Iverson was a great player and is a definite Hall of Famer. But whenever he felt that he wasn't the number one, starting, go-to franchise guy forty-eight minutes a game, he'd start whining about it two seconds after the game ended.

Fark 'em.

And goodbye.

puffy999: Sure, it's childish, but it goes along with his work ethic (don't do anything that doesn't put "me" in the spotlight), but ultimately that doesn't define him.

Again, read that whole interview. They're clearly bringing up the practice thing, which was a total non-issue, up so that Philly can get rid of him without the whole city rioting outside their offices. Oh no, he missed a practice because he was sore because he's been playing with injuries to pretty much every body part he ever had!

What's funny is that it's okay for football players to miss practice during the week and then play in the game. They're heroes for showing up to the games. And yet somehow, no one ever says anything stupid like "oh, they HAVE to be practicing or else their teammates will never get any better".

No, he's not Jordan, but Jordan is borderline insane. Iverson had a problem with taking everything to heart. Don't give me this bullsh*t about his attitude being so horrible. Was Iverson the greatest? No. No one ever said he was. But he gets WAY worse a rap than he deserves. Who the f*ck would you let shoot on the 76ers when he was there?

Also, don't give me this bullsh*t about Miller not having had any talent with the Pacers. Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Al Harrington? Even Brad Miller was better than anyone else on the 6ers. Tim Hardaway was around for some of it, Jalen Rose was ok. Throw in the double Davises and Rik Smits and Mark Jackson, and I think Iverson and Mutombo are the only 6ers even cracking their lineup anytime during the Pacers' decent years.

/former Iverson hater
//then I actually read the interviews, watched him play, read other people who knew him talk about him, etc.

it's a rare occasion that i agree completely with IAmRight.

IAmRight: Also, don't give me this bullsh*t about Miller not having had any talent with the Pacers. Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Al Harrington? Even Brad Miller was better than anyone else on the 6ers. Tim Hardaway was around for some of it, Jalen Rose was ok. Throw in the double Davises and Rik Smits and Mark Jackson, and I think Iverson and Mutombo are the only 6ers even cracking their lineup anytime during the Pacers' decent years.

What farking year are you talking about?

All those young players still sucked when the Sixers knocked them out in the 1st round.

Yes, they would become better players. But the team that played the Sixers? They sucked. They game up more points than they scored and were the 8th seed and an early exit for a reason.

And if you wouldn't take Aaron McKie over them, it just shows you should stick to getting torn apart in NHL threads.