Not the first time or the last time that Michigan or Notre Dame football will be down.

Too true. Both programs think they're owed something because they were good when my grampa was young. Okay, Michigan has had a more recent run of success, but ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

/and I wonder how many 'wins' ND might have if they can't schedule 9 home games a year
//ostensibly a Big Ten fan
///but really, I don't pay attention to college football because the Big 10 sucks

Drew Sharp wrote the article. This means that you're not only free to ignore the content, but you should - the man is a full-on idiot.

Once Notre Dame gets rid of Weiss and the damage he's done, things might improve there. Michigan's already in a (slightly) better place than last year, and things should only keep improving. Our big issues for the year (a defense stretched so thin that we had to start walk-ons and a true freshman quarterback with an injured shoulder for 3/4s of the year) weren't things you can fix during the season.

germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...and by right, I mean you're a farking cock sucking moron.

germ78: Too true. Both programs think they're owed something because they were good when my grampa was young. Okay, Michigan has had a more recent run of success, but ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

/and I wonder how many 'wins' ND might have if they can't schedule 9 home games a year
//ostensibly a Big Ten fan
///but really, I don't pay attention to college football because the Big 10 sucks


Your grandpa was young in 1980? Do you get wifi in the uterus you live in?

/every big college schedules lots of soft opponents
//if you only follow a sport when your team is winning you are a complete putz

Dogfaced:

Beat me to it. But let me add: Germ. You are a dumb, dumb, DUMB son of a biatch.

Did you even think for 10 seconds before posting that? You make Sarah Palin and Paris Hilton look like Rhodes Scholars. You are officially too dumb to post on FARK. Die in a pile of your own leavings.

Oh, and ND schedules seven home, four away, and one neutral game, the exact same number of home games as Florida, and one less than Alabama. Jesus, you're a dumbass.

Dogfacedgod: germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...and by right, I mean you're a farking cock sucking moron.

They've been relevant, but they have only had three really good years and one bowl game win since 1993. They certainly have not spent much time in the top 10 in the last 15 years, either.

/Stay away from Brian Kelly, dammit!!!
//Cincinnati would still be decent without him, but with him they have a chance to play in a BCS bowl every year.
///He'd be lucky to win 8 games at Notre Dame next year.

Dogfacedgod: germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...and by right, I mean you're a farking cock sucking moron.

Don't hate me because touchdown jeebus touched you funny.

/get in a farkin conference and quit whining about lack of respect from the BCS
//also hate college football because of the nitwit fans

downtownkid: //if you only follow a sport when your team is winning you are a complete putz

When my teams are 'Northwestern' and 'Illinois' you have to forgive me for not paying full attention. Though the 'Cats have put together a good year (for them at least) against a fairly weak schedule.

germ78: ///but really, I don't pay attention to college football

You don't say.

Maybe Michigan should consult Jim Tressel before the pick a new coach since, you know, he has OWNED them for the last 6 years.

OK, some of you are apparently very, very young, so you need to hear this: college football is cyclical. Before Spurrier, Florida had been a very mediocre program. USC pre-Carroll? Awful. Oklahoma prior to Stoops? Nothing special.

For a program to succeed, you need the right coach and the right plan. Take a look at Florida State and Virginia Tech prior to Bowden and Beamer, respectively.

Michigan and Notre Dame will be back. They just need the right coach with the right plan.

Dogfacedgod: germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...although, really, ND considers the fact that "we're Notre Dame" to be enough to warrant a top ten ranking.

Notre Dame - returning to glory since 1994.

There is this great Bill Bellichik protege, who I hear may become available soon, that Notre Dame should look into. I hear rumors that people call him the "Mangenius".

germ78: Too true. Both programs think they're owed something because they were good when my grampa was young. Okay, Michigan has had a more recent run of success, but ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

/and I wonder how many 'wins' ND might have if they can't schedule 9 home games a year
//ostensibly a Big Ten fan
///but really, I don't pay attention to college football because the Big 10 sucks



\Fark's next development should be a finger-shock feedback through computers for people who troll in threads about stuff they hate

Gonz: Before Spurrier, Florida had been a very mediocre program. USC pre-Carroll? Awful. Oklahoma prior to Stoops? Nothing special.

And, just to add to the notion that it is cyclical, Florida had more respectable days in the past, and USC was a national powerhouse for a time before sliding back into obscurity for a while, and Oklahoma was a force in college football before wallowing in mediocrity for a while pre-Stoops. And Miami has been down, up, down, up and is down again, but may be coming back up.

Gonz: Very good points. Both OK and Bama needed 12 years and 5 coaches before they found their guy. As you mentioned, USC was down for 20 years and six coaches before they lucked into Carroll.

Weis worked hard, could coach offensive skill players, and could recruit well. That myth about ND not being able to draw talent to ND is gone. Weis just couldn't develop them into top players. I feel for the guy, and I wish he could have won at ND. Unlike the last guy, my reaction won't be "thank God" when the announcement is made next week.

There used to be a time when attracting the best Catholics was good enough to be a national power. Those days aren't coming back.

Gonz: USC pre-Carroll but post-John Robinson? Awful. Oklahoma prior to Stoopsand just before and after Switzer? Nothing special.

FTFY. Bad examples, but ya. Would also add the '80s to mid-'90s Longhorns, Miami pre-Schnellenberger, etc.

"re-evaluate their places in football". What does that even mean? They're in the same place as every other football team. Trying to get the best coaches and players as they can, and trying to win as many games as they can. What a stupid ass substanceless article built behind an empty premise.

Are they supposed to say, fark it, 6 wins is good enough, let's not try? That doesn't make any sense. I'm sure even the coaches and players at Dook want to win games, and Dook really sucks at football.

you have pee hands: I'm sure even the coaches and players at Dook want to win games, and Dook really sucks at football.

And, like the Rupp days at Kentucky especially, dook can blame their modern football program on the money the basketball program sucks into itself. It takes a lot of work to get good at both, as Florida can attest to. Hell, how often are a school's basketball and football programs even relevant at the same time?

\says so much about UK that they actually had Bear as a coach and blew it because of Herr Rupp

What I would be really interested in seeing, and wish I had time to do, would be to split the US with, say, the 35th parallel, go back like 20-25 years, and chart not only the number of national champions, but teams that finished a year in the Top 25, and see how many show up north of 35N, and how many are south.

Granted this might be skewed with the size/importance/poll bias of the SEC, but it seems to me that college football is slowly becoming a warm weather sport. They've seen this in college baseball for years and years too, for obvious reasons since the seasons for a lot of teams start in February, but it just seems like football might be moving towards this trend as well. If you're a big time recruit, all other factors being equal, are you going to go to Michigan or Notre Dame, or are you going to go to Miami/USC?

Would also be interesting to see a chart like this, compared to a similar chart for men's college basketball.

We ruined Notre Dame's Senior day, and next year we'll ruin the first game in the newly renovated Big House

jayhawk88: What I would be really interested in seeing, and wish I had time to do, would be to split the US with, say, the 35th parallel, go back like 20-25 years, and chart not only the number of national champions, but teams that finished a year in the Top 25, and see how many show up north of 35N, and how many are south.

Granted this might be skewed with the size/importance/poll bias of the SEC, but it seems to me that college football is slowly becoming a warm weather sport. They've seen this in college baseball for years and years too, for obvious reasons since the seasons for a lot of teams start in February, but it just seems like football might be moving towards this trend as well. If you're a big time recruit, all other factors being equal, are you going to go to Michigan or Notre Dame, or are you going to go to Miami/USC?

Would also be interesting to see a chart like this, compared to a similar chart for men's college basketball.

I had a college coach explain his thoughts on this - a lot of the top shelf college players these days are coming from warmer states, particularly Florida, Texas and California. It is really, really hard to get a kid from Florida excited about winters in South Bend or Ann Arbor, especially since almost all big college programs get plenty of TV exposure these days.

ND = 0-4 vs. Big East last two years.

There's a lot of BE fans who want pressure put on ND to join for football or GTFO. Why would we want them?

It's pretty obvious why they don't join a conference. They'd be at the bottom of the BE and third in a Big Televen East Division.

IMDWalrus: Michigan's already in a (slightly) better place than last year,

tied for last place in the big 10 is an improvement?

you have pee hands: "re-evaluate their places in football". What does that even mean? They're in the same place as every other football team. Trying to get the best coaches and players as they can, and trying to win as many games as they can. What a stupid ass substanceless article built behind an empty premise.

Are they supposed to say, fark it, 6 wins is good enough, let's not try? That doesn't make any sense. I'm sure even the coaches and players at Dook want to win games, and Dook really sucks at football.

I'm going to give you credit for just being stupid, and not a troll...

You're clearly confusing their "place" and their "purpose." Their purpose is the same as every other team, to win as many games as possible. Their place is what is being discussed. Traditionally Michigan and Notre Dame were considered to be football powerhouses, that demanded respect on their name alone. However due to the recent struggles of both programs, it is prudent that the two program realize that they can no longer coast by on their reputation alone, as their reputation isn't really very good these days.

Basically the article is saying that the two programs are no longer atop the heap of great college football programs. (despite what many of their delusional fans will tell you)

That being said I think both programs will improve, but I don't think that Notre Dame will be able to return to the success that they have had in the past. Prominent? Yes. Dominant? No.

Michigan just needs to fire Greg "Gerg" Robinson as DC- maybe the most successful pile of unmitigated FAIL in modern football history.

ND os in worst shape, since while Duke can find a couple of talented kids to put up with their fans' d-baggery for their basketball team, it's much more difficult to get 20-25 kids to do so every year for football.

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: ND = 0-4 vs. Big East last two years.

There's a lot of BE fans who want pressure put on ND to join for football or GTFO. Why would we want them?

It's pretty obvious why they don't join a conference. They'd be at the bottom of the BE and third in a Big Televen East Division.

Well, that and they'd have to give up their coosh NBC TV deal.

Forecaster18: Dogfacedgod: germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...although, really, ND considers the fact that "we're Notre Dame" to be enough to warrant a top ten ranking.

Notre Dame - returning to glory since 1994.

Aaand this was the point I was trying to make before receiving ad hominems from the faithful.

I hate Michigan but I have a really hard time believeing they won't be good in a year or two.

Little bit of a stretch comparing Michigan and ND's woes to the auto industry. Sure, the wins haven't been what they used to be but the Big House is filling seats. I believe the real trouble sets in when a program can no longer draw adequate attendance.

Dogfacedgod: germ78: ND hasn't been relevant since 1980.

Except when they won the championship in 1988 and were always in the top ten in the 90's (including this decade)...but yeah, you're right...

...and by right, I mean you're a farking cock sucking moron.


This. Moron.

/ND Derangement Syndrome on full display

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Michigan just needs to fire Greg "Gerg" Robinson as DC- maybe the most successful pile of unmitigated FAIL in modern football history.

My God! How the fark does this guy still get work? I thought the Syracuse flameout would surely be the death of him for at least a couple years. I mean how the hell did that interview for the Michigan job go?

"So, tell me about your last position?"
"Well I completely destroyed a Big East football power, winning 10 games in 4 years. I also left the program with a bizarre press conference in which I read exerts from 'The Little Engine That Could'".
"You're hired!"

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Michigan just needs to fire Greg "Gerg" Robinson as DC- maybe the most successful pile of unmitigated FAIL in modern football history.

ND os in worst shape, since while Duke can find a couple of talented kids to put up with their fans' d-baggery for their basketball team, it's much more difficult to get 20-25 kids to do so every year for football.


Yes, it's the d-bag fans that keeps players away from ND. Has nothing to do with the cold climate and high academic standards. Notre Dame had a 93% graduation rate for the football team last year. What was the percentage at the prison where you got your GED?

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: ND = 0-4 vs. Big East last two years.

There's a lot of BE fans who want pressure put on ND to join for football or GTFO. Why would we want them?

It's pretty obvious why they don't join a conference. They'd be at the bottom of the BE and third in a Big Televen East Division.


And yet they still draw ten times the TV audience that anyone in the big east does. That must suck for you, huh?

hmmurdock: I'm going to give you credit for just being stupid, and not a troll...

You're clearly confusing their "place" and their "purpose." Their purpose is the same as every other team, to win as many games as possible. Their place is what is being discussed. Traditionally Michigan and Notre Dame were considered to be football powerhouses, that demanded respect on their name alone. However due to the recent struggles of both programs, it is prudent that the two program realize that they can no longer coast by on their reputation alone, as their reputation isn't really very good these days.

Basically the article is saying that the two programs are no longer atop the heap of great college football programs. (despite what many of their delusional fans will tell you)

That being said I think both programs will improve, but I don't think that Notre Dame will be able to return to the success that they have had in the past. Prominent? Yes. Dominant? No.

Well I'm certainly not trolling. Who would I be trolling - the author? I doubt he reads Fark.

But if what you're saying is that the author thinks he's saying something novel by saying that old powerhouses can't just coast on their reputation, he's still an idiot and the article is still a waste of space. They realized that, I'm sure, decades ago. Or maybe sometime around the fall of Rome. College football is big business. Programs may use their reputation to their advantage when they can, but I'm sure even Texas, Florida, and USC point out all the alumni they've put into the NFL while they're recruiting.

There's been nothing to suggest that RichRod wasn't the reason for WVU's success, IMO (unlike the Hawkins fiasco at CU while Boise hasn't missed a beat). You could make an argument that qbs in his system will never survive the weekly pounding from Big 10 defenses, but I don't really see any reason why a guy with a successful track record can't be successful just because his team now wears maize and blue- although again, the Gerg Robinson hire is troubling.

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: ND = 0-4 vs. Big East last two years.

There's a lot of BE fans who want pressure put on ND to join for football or GTFO. Why would we want them?

It's pretty obvious why they don't join a conference. They'd be at the bottom of the BE and third in a Big Televen East Division.


The reason they don't join the Big 10 is TV revenue.

Nabb1: And, just to add to the notion that it is cyclical, Florida had more respectable days in the past, and USC was a national powerhouse for a time before sliding back into obscurity for a while, and Oklahoma was a force in college football before wallowing in mediocrity for a while pre-Stoops. And Miami has been down, up, down, up and is down again, but may be coming back up.

Well, let's put the hammer to the nail here. In 1988, Notre Dame won the national title, yes. Also, Washington State was 9-3, Michigan 9-2, Indiana 8-3, Nebraska 11-2, UCLA 10-2, Arkansas 10-2, Fresno State 10-2, Wyoming 11-2, Florida State 11-1, Miami 11-1, UTEP 10-3, Auburn 10-2.

Alabama was 7-5, Florida 5-6, Texas 4-7, Ohio State 4-6, Georgia Tech 3-8, Texas Tech 5-6, Cincinnati 3-8, Wisconsin 1-10, TCU 4-7.

Baylor (6-5) finished with a better record than Texas that year. Duke was 7-3-1.

Of course, sports nuts have the memory of cockroaches, so it's not like anyone will keep track of who should eat crow. People talked smack then, talk smack now and will talk smack in another 20 years when Vanderbilt is defending its fourth consecutive national title. OK, maybe not.

About the only thing that can be said is that it's gotten more corrupt and consolidated. There were 24 independent teams in '88 including Miami, Florida State, Penn State, Virginia Tech and Boston College. "Independent" wasn't something ND flaunted as special; four of the top five teams that year were independent.

downtownkid: Yes, it's the d-bag fans that keeps players away from ND. Has nothing to do with the cold climate and high academic standards. Notre Dame had a 93% graduation rate for the football team last year. What was the percentage at the prison where you got your GED?

He was kind of being an ass about it, but it's a fair point. If you're a Duke or a Stanford, and you can land 2 or 3 top flight recruits that can make the grade at your college, you can still compete at the college basketball level. You need to land at least 2 or 3 times that many to compete at football, however.

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: ND = 0-4 vs. Big East last two years.

There's a lot of BE fans who want pressure put on ND to join for football or GTFO. Why would we want them?

It's pretty obvious why they don't join a conference. They'd be at the bottom of the BE and third in a Big Televen East Division.

And this year's Pitt game, with a five-point margin, has been the most lopsided of those losses. Not to mention they've never played Louisville or USF, and haven't played Cincinnati since 1900. They have a winning record against the current Big East overall, but that's with all but sixteen of their 81 games coming against Pitt.

They also have a winning record against eight of the Big Ten teams (Michigan is 20-15 with 8 wins pre-Knute, Ohio State's 3-2 and Penn State's 9-9-1), with only Iowa and Wisconsin even close.

Either way, they have a very unique schedule, where you play the Pac-10, Big Ten, Big East, service schools, etc. Plus, lately they've been throwing some first time opponents in (SDSU in '08, UConn and Nevada in '09, Tulsa and Utah next year, plus they haven't played WMU - or any MAC school - since Knute was coach).

Other than the consistent rivals they have - USC, Navy, Army, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Pitt and the new BC rivalry - they've provided recruiting power to anyone else they play. The hype works both ways, you know. I'm sure Todd Graham, Kyle Whittingham and Bill Cubit mentioned it to every recruit they've seen since the second their schools signed their respective contracts.

As long as they help schools recruit, schools will keep scheduling them. Which means no one in the 1A wants them to stop being Notre Dame.

dragonchild: Of course, sports nuts have the memory of cockroaches, so it's not like anyone will keep track of who should eat crow. People talked smack then, talk smack now and will talk smack in another 20 years when Vanderbilt is defending its fourth consecutive national title. OK, maybe not

So much of this.
Just an FYI, the Raiders were in the super bowl in 2003. Things can change real fast in sports.

downtownkid: Yes, it's the d-bag fans that keeps players away from ND. Has nothing to do with the cold climate and high academic standards. Notre Dame had a 93% graduation rate for the football team last year. What was the percentage at the prison where you got your GED?

Just be like Penn State -- play in a cold climate, have high academic standards (including a grad rate higher than the school average), AND go to prison, AND win on the field.

Of course, you also need a guy as old, experienced and hardcore as Yoda for a football coach, not an obese egomaniac riding Belichick's coattails.

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Michigan just needs to fire Greg "Gerg" Robinson as DC- maybe the most successful pile of unmitigated FAIL in modern football history.

Michigan needed some new blood after Carr left, but I have a problem with any coach who "brings his system" with him. The business world has the same problem in MBA-carrying CEOs with egos so big they can't fit through a door. No, you don't know everything you retarded egomaniac; the first order of business in a new place is to find out what works and what doesn't.

The defense has declined from good to awful in a year, so I agree the DC needs to go. But I also doubt RichRod's offense will work at Michigan. His approach, based on everything I've seen and heard, is to draw up a "perfect" plan on paper and then try to recruit & train the team to fit that mold. That's a recipe for disaster at worst and mediocrity at best. Whatever success he saw this year was thanks to Forcier competing like crazy. With few exceptions I see hike, defense penetrates the spread-out line, Forcier scrambles, Forcier makes something from nothing, RichRod preens.

Lost Thought 00: There is this great Bill Bellichik protege, who I hear may become available soon, that Notre Dame should look into. I hear rumors that people call him the "Mangenius".

Al Groh will be available on Monday as well. I hope.

downtownkid: And yet they still draw ten times the TV audience that anyone in the big east does. That must suck for you, huh?

No, I'm glad they have the NBC contract. I probably wouldn't have been able to watch them lose to Storrs Correctional otherwise.

Drew Sharp....hahahahahahahahaha.

Always good for a laugh.

dragonchild: The defense has declined from good to awful in a year, so I agree the DC needs to go. But I also doubt RichRod's offense will work at Michigan. His approach, based on everything I've seen and heard, is to draw up a "perfect" plan on paper and then try to recruit & train the team to fit that mold. That's a recipe for disaster at worst and mediocrity at best. Whatever success he saw this year was thanks to Forcier competing like crazy. With few exceptions I see hike, defense penetrates the spread-out line, Forcier scrambles, Forcier makes something from nothing, RichRod preens.

Rodriguez pioneered the spread offense as OC under Tommy Bowden while he was at Tulane, and in three years, the team went from no wins to no losses. 1998 - undefeated, finished No. 7 in the polls. Tulane. The Green Wave. 98% graduation rate. Bowden went to Clemson and wallowed in mediocrity in the ACC, and Rodriguez turned West Virginia into the class of the Big East and had them on the cusp of being a national power. Tulane is back to sucking. Badly. But, we still graduate 98% of our players.

FriarReb98: Gonz: USC pre-Carroll but post-John Robinson? Awful. Oklahoma prior to Stoopsand just before and after Switzer? Nothing special.

FTFY. Bad examples, but ya. Would also add the '80s to mid-'90s Longhorns, Miami pre-Schnellenberger, etc.

Yeah, I should have expanded that farther. I was trying to think of traditional powers who fell on hard times and have recently rebounded.

dragonchild: downtownkid: Yes, it's the d-bag fans that keeps players away from ND. Has nothing to do with the cold climate and high academic standards. Notre Dame had a 93% graduation rate for the football team last year. What was the percentage at the prison where you got your GED?

Just be like Penn State -- play in a cold climate, have high academic standards (including a grad rate higher than the school average), AND go to prison, AND win on the field.

Of course, you also need a guy as old, experienced and hardcore as Yoda for a football coach, not an obese egomaniac riding Belichick's coattails.


You're going to place Penn State academic standards alongside Notre Dame? Penn State, with it's 76% graduation for football players? Penn State, the Ag college? Oh wait, you're trolling, right? You couldn't be serious.

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: downtownkid: And yet they still draw ten times the TV audience that anyone in the big east does. That must suck for you, huh?

No, I'm glad they have the NBC contract. I probably wouldn't have been able to watch them lose to Storrs Correctional otherwise.

You'll always have womens basketball.

Mishawaka dropouts must be in a real funk these days. Both bandwagon teams are in the crapper.