ftfa:

In 2006 there were 141 accidents at South Chicago Avenue and Stony Island Drive, a very complicated South Side intersection.

when i read things like that, i always wonder. so i checked out the intersection to see how 'very complicated' it is

ok, i'll give them that one

Revenue is the right way to measure effectiveness.

Ninja Wicked: Revenue is the right way to measure effectiveness.

This. We've got two in our town and the intersections where they are have had more accidents since they went in than before. Of course it doesn't help that the former chief of police here who advocated for their installation quit his job with the city and became VP for the company that owns the cameras.

I'll use Mike's Trick to include Green Light cameras as well to hide the lack of decline.

That's the Chicago way?

Use a roundabout. They work.

/not from Europe
//loves roundabouts

Megain: ftfa: In 2006 there were 141 accidents at South Chicago Avenue and Stony Island Drive, a very complicated South Side intersection.when i read things like that, i always wonder. so i checked out the intersection to see how 'very complicated' it is

ok, i'll give them that one

Wait, there are two Chicago Aves. in Chicago? That is confusing enough for me.

Chicago: Crashes deRevenue increased since we installed red light cameras.

/FTFY

Ninja Wicked: Revenue is the right way to measure effectiveness.

DING!

I would have thought that they type of accident would be a better indicator than the number.

If people have been blowing through red lights, then most of the accidents were probably t-bones, now that people know that there are red light cameras they are probably slamming on their brakes at the last minute and getting rear ended by the idiot behind them who was following to closely and was going to blow through the red light. There maybe more acccidents in number, but I bet they are a hell of a lot less serious, a few broken tail/headlights and bumpers as opposed to cars with their entire sides caved in as an SUV has intersected them at a 90 degree angle.

I'm not quite sure what the problem is with red light cameras, speed cameras yes, but red light ones, no. Going 5 mph above the limit isn't likely to cause immediate harm. Blowing through a stoplight is much more likely to cause an accident. Don't want a fine, don't blow through stop lights.

Ahhhh, the Chicago way.

I realized the best way to get out of a ticket is to tell the cop you just had mexican food.
That or pull your shirt down a bit.
/cool story sis

WHARGABAHALGBAL RED LIGHT CAMERAS ONLY MAKE MONEY!!!11!!

/whoops, I'm too late.

Red light cameras are farking bullshiat first of all. Second of all, in my town they give tickets and you get a hearing before the farking company that installed the farking things, not a judge. It's running at 99.5% denied so far. That is some unconstitutional farking gorrram boolsheet. People have been getting them when doing a fully legal right turn on red.

No, I haven't gotten one yet. If I do, my bp will go to 199/130 and I will dedicate my life to getting the town council farkers who did this shiat out of office.

My favorite part about the red light camera installations is whenever one of them goes up, they change the duration of the yellow light to the mandated minimum, regardless of any other conditions.

Making people either slam on the brakes or floor the gas right around an intersection always makes things safer.

Megain: ftfa: In 2006 there were 141 accidents at South Chicago Avenue and Stony Island Drive, a very complicated South Side intersection.when i read things like that, i always wonder. so i checked out the intersection to see how 'very complicated' it is

ok, i'll give them that one

I just checked out the Google Street View (new window). Oh my. That intersection should be entered into the world driving championship.

Sounds like they're working with shaky statistics and data, but the author does a magnificient job of failing to clarify it.

Pinko_Commie: I'm not quite sure what the problem is with red light cameras, speed cameras yes, but red light ones, no. Going 5 mph above the limit isn't likely to cause immediate harm. Blowing through a stoplight is much more likely to cause an accident. Don't want a fine, don't blow through stop lights.

One problem is that municipalities decide that maybe they want a little more revenue, so they start decreasing the time that a light stays yellow. People learn that yellow means stop fast or get a ticket, increasing the number of rear-end collisions.

Link (new window)

Pinko_Commie: I'm not quite sure what the problem is with red light cameras, speed cameras yes, but red light ones, no.

One of the problems is they shorten the yellow light time to deliberately catch more people. Another problem is that in heavy traffic in places like Chicago, if you don't sneak your way through the red light, you are screwing yourself and everyone behind you. There is no danger of "t-boning" when traffic is moving 5-10mph.

oh snap u got told: Use a roundabout. They work.

/not from Europe
//loves roundabouts

If planned and built correctly. There are a lot of roundabouts in Maryland that aren't. Some are too small (yet 2 lanes), have inverse banking (i.e. slopes from the center down to the edges) or placed at the exit to an expressway so people come down the ramp at 60+ mph to a tight roundabout.

/also doesn't help that half of the population believes yielding is a character flaw and charges ahead.

icebergcomics: I'll use Mike's Trick to include Green Light cameras as well to hide the lack of decline.

You need to look at it in context

Poppyale: I realized the best way to get out of a ticket is to tell the cop you just had mexican food.
That or pull your shirt down a bit.
/cool story sis

Looking at your pic, I would think the latter would work better.

/How YOU doin!!1!1

syberpud: oh snap u got told: Use a roundabout. They work.

/not from Europe
//loves roundabouts

If planned and built correctly. There are a lot of roundabouts in Maryland that aren't. Some are too small (yet 2 lanes), have inverse banking (i.e. slopes from the center down to the edges) or placed at the exit to an expressway so people come down the ramp at 60+ mph to a tight roundabout.

/also doesn't help that half of the population believes yielding is a character flaw and charges ahead.

Roundabouts are gay

The intersection in question -

theoneontheleft: Sounds like they're working with shaky statistics and data, but the author does a magnificient job of failing to clarify it.

Every statistic is shaky because the people making the statistics have a vested interest one way or the other. If they didn't have a vested interest, they wouldn't be doing the study because they simply wouldn't give a sheeite. That's why you can't trust research of any kind. It's all bogus.

stirfrybry: icebergcomics: I'll use Mike's Trick to include Green Light cameras as well to hide the lack of decline.

You need to look at it in context

By Trick we meant Treat and by hide we meant show and by lack of decline we meant that all new reporters are douches.

That still won't be enough for the redlight deniers.

Bacontastesgood: Pinko_Commie: I'm not quite sure what the problem is with red light cameras, speed cameras yes, but red light ones, no.

One of the problems is they shorten the yellow light time to deliberately catch more people. Another problem is that in heavy traffic in places like Chicago, if you don't sneak your way through the red light, you are screwing yourself and everyone behind you. There is no danger of "t-boning" when traffic is moving 5-10mph.

then the problem is not cameras, it's implementation and engineering being driven by greed. I'm a huge fan of the idea of red light cameras. I see your point and I agree that greed is a problem. I'm sure there's a solution besides whargarbling against red light cameras, though. Maybe get involved with your local municipality. Get a petition written up demanding that red-light-camera equipped traffic lights have increased yellow times (perhaps add in your statistics, and suggested times for each possible speed limit). Get some local media, law offices, and local businesses involved. If your cause is reasonable and you approach it properly as a community, you can get it changed...

Or I guess you could just whine on the internet instead.

Poppyale: I realized the best way to get out of a ticket is to tell the cop you just had mexican food.
That or pull your shirt down a bit.
/cool story sis

On further review, the ruling on the field is whatever you say it is.

/whew

BobaFeet: theoneontheleft: Sounds like they're working with shaky statistics and data, but the author does a magnificient job of failing to clarify it.

Every statistic is shaky because the people making the statistics have a vested interest one way or the other. If they didn't have a vested interest, they wouldn't be doing the study because they simply wouldn't give a sheeite. That's why you can't trust research of any kind. It's all bogus.

Just ask the AGW "scientist"

Unless you're a person who has experienced intersections with red light cameras on a consistent daily basis, it's fairly safe to assume that you have no clue what you're talking about.

They are largely a revenue generating mechanism masquerading as a safety measure.

God i love this city, but sometimes I get reminded the only reason I live here is because of business.

I call NANNY STATE.

why don't they just implant all of our cars with devices to track our speed and issue ourselves speeding tickets any time we go over a given speed limit.

or better yet our cars and just drive us to jail where we can review and purchase health care coverage to get out of jail.

RyanBerges: I call NANNY STATE.

why don't they just implant all of our cars with devices to track our speed and issue ourselves speeding tickets any time we go over a given speed limit.

or better yet our cars and just drive us to jail where we can review and purchase health care coverage to get out of jail.

THERE WILL BE NO REVIEW!!! DO NOT PASS GO OR COLLECT $200

oh snap u got told: Use a roundabout. They work.

/not from Europe
//loves roundabouts



also loves roundabouts

want to decrease accidents? Increase yellow light times and standardize them based on speed limit.

want to increase revenue? Lower yellow light times, increase time where all lights are red, install red light cameras.

Chicago is more corrupt than DC somehow. Thanks for the crook in the OVal Office, guys.

/your pizza sucks

oh snap u got told: Use a roundabout. They work.

/not from Europe
//loves roundabouts

Americans aren't intelligent enough to successfully navigate a roundabout. we have to be told how to drive with little flashing lights.

SeamusFerrell: Megain: ftfa: In 2006 there were 141 accidents at South Chicago Avenue and Stony Island Drive, a very complicated South Side intersection.when i read things like that, i always wonder. so i checked out the intersection to see how 'very complicated' it is

ok, i'll give them that one

Wait, there are two Chicago Aves. in Chicago? That is confusing enough for me.

There's South Chicago Ave & Chicago Ave.

What's really confusing is East Chicago, IN.

Chicago is more corrupt than DC somehow. Thanks for the crook in the OVal Office, guys.

/your pizza sucks


Wait, did someone mention Chicago? Please let this turn into a pizza argument. It's been a couple weeks.

I think I found the issue with this intersection on google street view...



/put the phone down!

My Baloney Has No First Name: I just checked out the Google Street View (new window). Oh my. That intersection should be entered into the world driving championship.

Okay, surely you guys are just exaggerating. *click*.

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD.

Riotboy: There's South Chicago Ave & Chicago Ave.

What's really confusing is East Chicago, IN.

OK. Thanks. I read South Chicago Ave. as being a Chicago Ave. with the South tacked on to say it is in the south, like you would have a W. Chicago Ave. on the "real" one. Not that I have any plans on ever going to South Chicago and Stony Island though.

Nemo's Brother: Chicago is more corrupt than DC somehow

You just keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.

My Baloney Has No First Name:
I just checked out the Google Street View. Oh my. That intersection should be entered into the world driving championship.

Put a large roundabout there and call it a day. WTF, engineers?

Blowing through a stoplight is much more likely to cause an accident. Don't want a fine, don't blow through stop lights.


Check out the positioning of red light cameras. Their primary purpose isn't to get people dangerously blowing through a red light at 50 mph. They're aimed to get people turning right on red who roll through at 2 mph, or come to a stop past the line.

defiancecp: Get some local media, law offices, and local businesses involved. If your cause is reasonable and you approach it properly as a community, you can get it changed...

Best joke I've heard all day. A+++, would LOL again.

I must dissent.

Nemo's Brother: Chicago is more corrupt than DC somehow. Thanks for the crook in the OVal Office, guys.

We're trying as hard as we can. We even recruited from Chicago this year.